Fweethawt Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 got quite aggravated this morning when remembering stuff I have said and done entirely convinced that it was God or God's will , so embarrassing - then got such a slap across the face when I remembered very clearly being told by our pastors wife that my post natal depression after my eldest was born was because we weren't married. we married when he was 1 year old. I felt sick when I remembered this, and poor husband had a wobbly lower lip to deal with very early this morning! I think there's going to be more stuff like that floating to the surface, the scum, as it were. Here is an excerpt from a book titled 'Honest Man's Philosophy' which can be read in its entirety at www.jovialatheist.com. In my opinion, this book is something that you and your husband can easily spend a lot of time discussing. It will also help the two of you come to terms with your semi-freed mental state. Here's the clip ------ The greatest obstacle to Clear Thinking is the emotions. By and large the emotions are controlled more by believing, than by thinking (my studied opinion). The religious songs you grew up with, the old habits of attending church, the reading of the Bible, reading inspirational books and literature, the hearing of sermons, all exert a great deal of pressure on the mind (emotions). Religion is like the pit viper that hypnotizes the bird into inactivity of the mind and body until the viper is close enough to gobble up the little bird. Did you know, You Are The Bird? For a while, if you make a decision to be a Clear Thinker instead of being a believer, waves of nostalgia will wash over you when you hear one of the old songs on the radio, or hear the appeal of the evangelists. Your thinking mind knows the truth about the matter, but your emotions will say - "Ah! What's the harm?" Then is when you must see the viper and know the bird is not only you, but the bird is also your children, your friends and your loved ones. You need to remember, this whole nation is the bird. The viper wants you. The viper hates Honest research and Honest Clear Thinking! Honesty is your protection from the viper. After you have gone through this a few times, your emotions will be reeducated to react according to the honest thinking that your mind is doing. It is also good if you can find a friend who is also an Honest Thinker. One way to find others like you is to suggest this book to them. After that, the rest is easy enough. You will have found a friend (or not a friend). In addition, I suggest you reread this book from time to time. You will discover new truths each time you read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pops Posted June 27, 2013 Author Share Posted June 27, 2013 Thanks Fw x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pops Posted June 29, 2013 Author Share Posted June 29, 2013 More discussion this morning as OH tells me about his conversations with a close friend. The friend is very defensive and essentially giving instant comebacks aimed at OH telling him that he is not trying hard enough to hear god, that it's his own problem, his own fault. OH is understandably hurt but not surprised by this response. Every question is batted away with an unsupported answer. Myself, I have stopped frequenting a Christian mums forum after a thread i began about reconciling gaps in my belief was mothballed. I don't want to open up a can of worms, i don't want to hurt anyone or have anyone think badly of me. I guess I don't want to be rejected because of a choice i have made. So I am just slipping away. I'm supposed to be going to the wedding of my house group leader today. (I haven't been or seen them for months, i will not be missed on such a busy day) i don't feel ready to be around so many of my old congregation. This is one of the tricky days. Mixed feelings of resentment and sadness and defiance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenaissanceWoman Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Personally, I would not attend the wedding. Your presence could be a distraction for some people, and this day is not about you. Have any of those old christian brothers and sisters given a shit about you since you left their little club? I bet not. And they will see you and be all like, "Oh, we miss you so much!" (Oh really? My phone number is in the church directory, but you haven't contacted me in the six months I haven't been there. I guess you don't miss me or care about me that much, do you?) Oh, sorry... I got off on a little personal rant there. Hee hee. Is there a discreet person to whom you can entrust taking your wedding gift to the wedding for you? You don't want them to say anything to anyone, just deliver the gift along with theirs. You don't want people standing around saying, "Poor girl, she wasn't comfortable coming but wanted to give her gift anyway." Don't let them know or have reason to discuss you in that way. However, you probably do want to pay your respects to the bride and groom, and based on their previous role in your life, that is probably a nice thing to do. But you also don't want conversations at their big event to focus on you being there or not. Maybe you could get the gift to them in another way (personally deliver later, or mail it). Topic #2: You mentioned post natal depression. Oh honey... do not get me started! I was happily married for 12 years when it happened to me. I was also involved in a "good" church at the time. ("Good" except I got no new-mother casseroles, no home visits, no cards saying Jesus loves you and so do I. I did get a generic gift basket with some used christian children's books and a preprinted card... Lazy fucks.) The ignorance surrounding this physical problem really angers me deeply, because there are small things people could do to really help, but all you get is guilt that you did something wrong, or the empty "praying for you" crap. I think the depression is aggravated by wanting to be the best mom you can be, but not having the rest, hormone balance, brain chemicals, and support (physical and emotional) you need to do it. Know what I mean? You were not the problem, my dear! And your husband was not the problem either. Disregard that woman and her ignorant comment. Damn... I need to stop thinking about this before I get riled up beyond repair for the day! I feel your pain, I really do. It will get better, I promise. Let's all be thankful that your husband is still around (I'm surprised mine stuck with me through my post partum -- I would have left me, hee hee), that you two are working through this deconversion together, and that your children are going to be spared a lifetime of guilt and misery at the hands of this religious crap. Focus on those people. They are what matters, and they can be your greatest source of joy, contentment, and purpose in this life. Peace to you this morning! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pops Posted June 29, 2013 Author Share Posted June 29, 2013 RW that was a great post to find, thankyou. I am going to send a message just saying "sorry i couldn't be with you as planned xxx " or something, but your point is valid- no one has called or even texted me, and now I feel nervous about wanting to converse with honesty and graciousness at the same time as knowing i will probably not receive the same courtesy. Husband is my rock atm as we both find the same progression is bringing up different problems :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenaissanceWoman Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 I'm sorry no one has called or texted. Please be aware that this is completely normal, and is not a reflection on you. This was the toughest part for me as I pulled away, and caused me to hit a deep sadness. Finally I found ex-c, and saw that this is a universal problem, and I am certainly not the only one. Oh, I wish I had known this about a year sooner -- it would have maybe saved me from a lot of darkness and self-doubt. It is still going to hurt you, even now that you know it's just the way it is. You probably gave them your all, and thought you had some real friendships. That is going to be painful, no matter what. However, please take some solace, and maybe even try to step back and laugh at the way they are fitting the mold just like everyone said they would. Shift the blame to them and their messed up system, and give yourself a break. Again, I'm sorry this is painful for you. It will fade, and you will have learned some things. Hang in there! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pops Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share Posted July 6, 2013 Just told my first real person! A neighbour who is a very good friend. She and her husband are also both from science backgrounds and not religious. She was very sweet, understanding and her first comment was something reassuring about 19 being a sensitive age and conversion happening a lot at that age. Feel such relief *-* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantophobia Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Yes, there's always that moment when you're waiting for the lightening to strike you, the voice from the heavens to declare you are Judas, isn't there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenaissanceWoman Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 That was a great choice of people of start with! A little support and comfort in real life is so very helpful. I hope a weight has been lifted off your shoulders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pops Posted July 7, 2013 Author Share Posted July 7, 2013 Yes, she's lovely and said that i should come over for coffee after work tomorrow to let it all out *deep sigh* Panto- i feel like that often lately! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new2me Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 The best thing I ever did, that was most helpful to my deconversion, was my decision to "take a break" from my relationship with God. I did this when I was a Christian, still believing all of the lies, and with no intent to deconvert. When I did eventually deconvert 10 years later, it was still emotionally jarring, but nowhere near as much as if I had still been entrenched with a church. While I know you can't exactly re-create that experience, you can make a similar break by boxing up those Christian books and putting them out of site, not frequenting religious venues (online or off), not praying to God, etc. Live your life as though you have an agreement from God for a "free pass" for a while. With time, you'll realize that the "free pass" is reality. It might take a long time to break out of your former habits, but you'll get there! And hang out here for all the support you need. Folks here really understand what you're going though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pops Posted July 7, 2013 Author Share Posted July 7, 2013 Those bookshelves have been bugging me Good idea, I've already given myself a holiday from calling myself a Christian. It still feels like my cultural label if not my spiritual one. I think you're right about the books etc. And it will De clutter my house considerably! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRS Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 The best thing I ever did, that was most helpful to my deconversion, was my decision to "take a break" from my relationship with God. I did this when I was a Christian, still believing all of the lies, and with no intent to deconvert. When I did eventually deconvert 10 years later, it was still emotionally jarring, but nowhere near as much as if I had still been entrenched with a church. While I know you can't exactly re-create that experience, you can make a similar break by boxing up those Christian books and putting them out of site, not frequenting religious venues (online or off), not praying to God, etc. Life your life as though you have an agreement from God for a "free pass" for a while. With time, you'll realize that the "free pass" is reality. It might take a long time to break out of your former habits, but you'll get there! And hang out here for all the support you need. Folks here really understand what you're going though. This is really good advice. If you think about it, Christianity is a religion filled with rituals like praying, reading, meditating, socializing, etc. The intent of these rituals is to place a psychological hold on believers, because the assumption is that if believers "take a break or a free pass" that they will backslide. The truth is, this is correct. Once a person breaks the cycle of fear and quits doing all the rituals, it's amazing how quickly they can free themselves from religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evelyn Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Like others have said, this process will take time. I deconverted almost 10 years ago and sometimes the Xian memories (or memes) still go through my head - old songs and hymns and etc. Consider this, though, that these things are about an imaginary sky god. Maybe you are not ready to think about that but it might help. Or, realize that god is the man behind the curtain in the Wizard of Oz. We have been told he is this mighty and powerful being and then we look behind the curtain and, poof, no one is there. I really liked Fwee's post about the pit viper hypnotizing the bird. It is so true. It can be too easy to think, "What's the harm?" Oh, but look back and remember what harm it did to you. Best thing, you can escape the viper's clutches with honesty and rational thought. And it is so freeing when you realize that you won't get zapped by the sky god! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantophobia Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 While I know you can't exactly re-create that experience, you can make a similar break by boxing up those Christian books and putting them out of site, not frequenting religious venues (online or off), not praying to God, etc. Live your life as though you have an agreement from God for a "free pass" for a while. With time, you'll realize that the "free pass" is reality. That's almost exactly what I did, too, although my first "free pass" was just an hour. I've mentioned this before here, but that first moment of "I am going to live my life for the next hour like I am not a 'poor, miserable sinner' about to be cursed by God for everything" was amazing after a lifetime of guilt, fear, shame and terror (and I remember the "God will punish me!" terror from the time I was 3-4 years old, too). Deconversion gives us all the opportunity to really be the human beings we want to be. And usually that includes being much happier and healthier people, which means we have more to offer the world. And isn't that what they tell us our loving God wants for us? Isn't that why he created us? (If he didn't, that's one fucked up God.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pops Posted July 8, 2013 Author Share Posted July 8, 2013 This morning I really felt the need to pray about something and got all distracted by it, thinking who do I pray to? Does whatever there is out there answer prayers? And after a little while i looked back over my past and saw that when I had prayed for patience I developed it by practising. When I wanted to learn how to drive i practiced, and right now no god is going to give me what I ask for, I'm going to work at it til i get there! It was an odd feeling, again, of relief knowing i am in control of a lot of what happens in my life, sometimes shit happens but then sometimes it did when I was praying! Maybe meditating on the positive outcome that I want is what will help me stay focused on the goal, and maybe after all that's all the prayer was. .. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRS Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 This morning I really felt the need to pray about something and got all distracted by it, thinking who do I pray to? Does whatever there is out there answer prayers? And after a little while i looked back over my past and saw that when I had prayed for patience I developed it by practising. When I wanted to learn how to drive i practiced, and right now no god is going to give me what I ask for, I'm going to work at it til i get there! It was an odd feeling, again, of relief knowing i am in control of a lot of what happens in my life, sometimes shit happens but then sometimes it did when I was praying! Maybe meditating on the positive outcome that I want is what will help me stay focused on the goal, and maybe after all that's all the prayer was. .. Funny you mention this as one of the last lingering effects of religion on me was not praying for thanks before I ate. I'm inclined to think more like what Bart Simpson once said: "Dear God. We paid for all this stuff ourselves, so thanks for nothing." Bart Simpson - saying grace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pops Posted July 8, 2013 Author Share Posted July 8, 2013 My favourite of his "I didn't think it was physically possible but this both sucks and blows" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VacuumFlux Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 This morning I really felt the need to pray about something and got all distracted by it, thinking who do I pray to? Does whatever there is out there answer prayers? And after a little while i looked back over my past and saw that when I had prayed for patience I developed it by practising. When I wanted to learn how to drive i practiced, and right now no god is going to give me what I ask for, I'm going to work at it til i get there! It was an odd feeling, again, of relief knowing i am in control of a lot of what happens in my life, sometimes shit happens but then sometimes it did when I was praying! Maybe meditating on the positive outcome that I want is what will help me stay focused on the goal, and maybe after all that's all the prayer was. .. Sometimes the nice thing about praying is putting things into words, to take your jumble of thoughts and untangle it without fear or judgement. I even managed that sometimes as a christian; I figured that if god already knew my deepest darkest thoughts, i couldn't make him unhappy by simply putting words to things he already knows about. Once I figured out it was just myself I'd been talking to all along, I started practicing talking to myself about things. I ask myself how I feel, what I want, what I'm afraid of, etc. I state the problem, then the desired resolution, and focus on what I want to accomplish. As a christian, I tended to focus more on my problems and beg god to magic them away. Since I know that's not going to happen, I don't dwell on the problems so much and put effort into asking "now what?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pops Posted July 8, 2013 Author Share Posted July 8, 2013 It's so good to be working this out with feedback, Thanks peeps x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pops Posted July 10, 2013 Author Share Posted July 10, 2013 Watching some tracie harris following several posts on here. She summarises my journey impeccably when she described researching how the bible was put together and then, having been dissatisfied with the answers looked at the development of the church as an institution and rejected that. Then being pantheist for two weeks before realising she already had names for everything she was still calling god, like matter and energy, so realising that she is an atheist. *_* I'm not there but I certainly empathise with the progression. I am still attached to the concept of a barely perceptible dimension of existence (a friendly physicist buddy has described the 11provable dimensions) which we might call a 6th sense or a connectedness, I don't know. Like i know that dogs hear noises i cannot. They exist but I can't experience them, so who knows what else there is. However, I am past trying to push my guesses on anyone else whilst claiming that I have exclusive information Anyhow, I like Mrs Harris! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pops Posted July 11, 2013 Author Share Posted July 11, 2013 Oops- accidentally shared a photo on Facebook from Neil De grasse Tyson.... Part of me is feeling sick just in anticipation of what friends and family are going to reply. Part of me is feeling this is a good thing We shall see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantophobia Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 What, Christians are really pissed about the whole Pluto thing...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pops Posted July 11, 2013 Author Share Posted July 11, 2013 Aww pants, nothing! Not one person has mentioned it. Maybe they're saving it all up for a face to face 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerk Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 They're probably either horrified and don't know what to say, or they didn't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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