barnacleben Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 When I left church behind, I left behind an artificial, hypocritical, happy-clappy nightmare of guilt, shame, and despair. This was no bride of Christ, but a decrepit, diseased, whoring witch on her 200th plastic surgery. She wasn't even as noble as a real whore. A real whore takes money, but she wasn't taking money, no. Instead she's like a desperate wizened nymphomaniac adulterous, paying all her money on gigolos, and not clean ones either, but unwashed AIDS-ridden park junkies, whose members oozed from open sores. It was very hard for me when I first heard the gospel. The gospel was so counter to what I'd learned in church for decades, I felt like I couldn't even comprehend it. I was so angry. What is the gospel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueScholar Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Depends on the context. Gospel basically means a proclamation of good news. The critical gospels according to most of Christianity are essentially considered absolutely canon and are called the canonical gospels. These include the gospel according to Matthew, John, Luke and Mark. Remember, other religions also contain the concept of gospel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted July 11, 2013 Super Moderator Share Posted July 11, 2013 I suppose if only we can understand the True Gospel and ignore all those whoring churches out there, we'll return to Christianity. Please, do go on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnacleben Posted July 11, 2013 Author Share Posted July 11, 2013 Depends on the context. Gospel basically means a proclamation of good news. The critical gospels according to most of Christianity are essentially considered absolutely canon and are called the canonical gospels. These include the gospel according to Matthew, John, Luke and Mark. Remember, other religions also contain the concept of gospel. But what is the Xian "good news"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted July 11, 2013 Super Moderator Share Posted July 11, 2013 But what is the Xian "good news"? The "Good News" is the message of Jesus. See John 3:16. Is this a trick question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhim Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Ben, we all know that the gospel is the statement that Jesus died for our sins that we might live in him and walk in newness of life, being forgiven all our sins. The first church I went to was not like what you described. People were friendly and the gospel was preached in accordance with evangelical doctrine. This church was conservative and evangelical, but not fundamentalist. The only reason I left is because I moved to a new city. I didn't leave Jesus because my church was dysfunctional. I left because I was born in another religion and ultimately didn't want to take a dump on my upbringing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachel15 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Are you thinking that we haven't had the revelation of the gospel properly? Therefore we couldn't have been 'true' Christians? Therefore we can still be converted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted July 11, 2013 Moderator Share Posted July 11, 2013 The gospel as I understand it also includes Jesus' suffering, dieing, rising, and appearing to witnesses. Of course, there is no logical reason to believe this or establish its probability. I assume the OPer grew up in a legalistic church and now sees a more liberal Lutheran gospel as the path to freedom in Christ. It might seem lighter, but it's still bad for ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnacleben Posted July 11, 2013 Author Share Posted July 11, 2013 The gospel as I understand it also includes Jesus' suffering, dieing, rising, and appearing to witnesses. Of course, there is no logical reason to believe this or establish its probability. I assume the OPer grew up in a legalistic church and now sees a more liberal Lutheran gospel as the path to freedom in Christ. It might seem lighter, but it's still bad for ya. Your assumptions are off. The only legal requirement in the congregation of my youth was... Thou shalt feel really excited all the time. As for "liberal Lutheran" it seems to have all sorts of legalism strapped onto it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted July 11, 2013 Moderator Share Posted July 11, 2013 The gospel as I understand it also includes Jesus' suffering, dieing, rising, and appearing to witnesses. Of course, there is no logical reason to believe this or establish its probability. I assume the OPer grew up in a legalistic church and now sees a more liberal Lutheran gospel as the path to freedom in Christ. It might seem lighter, but it's still bad for ya. Your assumptions are off. The only legal requirement in the congregation of my youth was... Thou shalt feel really excited all the time. As for "liberal Lutheran" it seems to have all sorts of legalism strapped onto it. What do you believe then? Your profile shows that you believe in The Trinity. Does that include the statements in the Nicene Creed? The Apostles' Creed? What's your gospel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realist Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 What is the gospel? The gospel is about a lamb to the slaughter!! And here comes another!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnacleben Posted July 11, 2013 Author Share Posted July 11, 2013 Are you thinking that we haven't had the revelation of the gospel properly? Therefore we couldn't have been 'true' Christians? Therefore we can still be converted? I haven't really made any assumptions. I'm just curious what people here in the lions den are thinking. People have all sorts of ideas about the gospel. For example, I have heard the gospel expressed this way: Jesus loved you so much that he died a horrible death to show how much he cared. (Translation: You should love people and show them love by flaying your skin off and drowning yourself in a kiddie pool full of lemon juice.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesG Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 I am curious about your beliefs to on one hand your profile states that you truly believe on the other hand you make statements suggesting you don't believe at all. please give us some background so we can understand where you are coming from and better illuminate your questions with answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted July 11, 2013 Super Moderator Share Posted July 11, 2013 Barnacleben, so what is your understanding of the term, and why do you see it that way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnacleben Posted July 11, 2013 Author Share Posted July 11, 2013 The gospel as I understand it also includes Jesus' suffering, dieing, rising, and appearing to witnesses. Of course, there is no logical reason to believe this or establish its probability. I assume the OPer grew up in a legalistic church and now sees a more liberal Lutheran gospel as the path to freedom in Christ. It might seem lighter, but it's still bad for ya. Your assumptions are off. The only legal requirement in the congregation of my youth was... Thou shalt feel really excited all the time. As for "liberal Lutheran" it seems to have all sorts of legalism strapped onto it. What do you believe then? Your profile shows that you believe in The Trinity. Does that include the statements in the Nicene Creed? The Apostles' Creed? What's your gospel? I confess the Lutheran confessions, which includes the three ecumenical (Apostle's, Nicene, Athanasian) creeds. I confess the scriptures, the Augsburg Confession of 1530, and other documents included in the Book of Concord. In contrast, liberal Lutherans are legalistic pietists (see wiki Pietism) that do not confess the Lutheran confessions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted July 11, 2013 Super Moderator Share Posted July 11, 2013 I confess the Lutheran confessions, which includes the three ecumenical (Apostle's, Nicene, Athanasian) creeds. I confess the scriptures, the Augsburg Confession of 1530, and other documents included in the Book of Concord. In contrast, liberal Lutherans are legalistic pietists (see wiki Pietism) that do not confess the Lutheran confessions. Why would you believe what these men wrote? Why not believe what Muhammed wrote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnacleben Posted July 11, 2013 Author Share Posted July 11, 2013 I am curious about your beliefs to on one hand your profile states that you truly believe on the other hand you make statements suggesting you don't believe at all. please give us some background so we can understand where you are coming from and better illuminate your questions with answers. Sorry, It's not my intension to be confusing. I was raised in the church, but left the church, but since then I have become a believer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernweh Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 The gospel as I understand it also includes Jesus' suffering, dieing, rising, and appearing to witnesses. Of course, there is no logical reason to believe this or establish its probability. I assume the OPer grew up in a legalistic church and now sees a more liberal Lutheran gospel as the path to freedom in Christ. It might seem lighter, but it's still bad for ya. Your assumptions are off. The only legal requirement in the congregation of my youth was... Thou shalt feel really excited all the time. As for "liberal Lutheran" it seems to have all sorts of legalism strapped onto it. Sounds very Pentecostal to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeCycle Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 To me, the gospel is a myth full of bad news. Thankfully it's not real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhim Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Agreed. I gave Ben what he perceives as the "right" answer. But to me the gospel is bad news. It goes something like this, "Some bearded, effeminate European guy showed up 2000 years ago, said some things, started a religion, and got attached to a stick. If you don't convert to this person's European religion, there is a place called hell where you will go when you die to be tormented by God for all eternity." That's not good news. It's the worst news ever. I thank God daily that Jesus is a false god and a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 When I left church behind, I left behind an artificial, hypocritical, happy-clappy nightmare of guilt, shame, and despair. This was no bride of Christ, but a decrepit, diseased, whoring witch on her 200th plastic surgery. She wasn't even as noble as a real whore. A real whore takes money, but she wasn't taking money, no. Instead she's like a desperate wizened nymphomaniac adulterous, paying all her money on gigolos, and not clean ones either, but unwashed AIDS-ridden park junkies, whose members oozed from open sores. It was very hard for me when I first heard the gospel. The gospel was so counter to what I'd learned in church for decades, I felt like I couldn't even comprehend it. I was so angry. What is the gospel? I strongly recommend that you knock it off with the "whore" talk. You are not going to like your visit if you get off to a bad start. To answer your question the gospel is a scam. It's a way to control people by fooling them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnacleben Posted July 11, 2013 Author Share Posted July 11, 2013 I confess the Lutheran confessions, which includes the three ecumenical (Apostle's, Nicene, Athanasian) creeds. I confess the scriptures, the Augsburg Confession of 1530, and other documents included in the Book of Concord. In contrast, liberal Lutherans are legalistic pietists (see wiki Pietism) that do not confess the Lutheran confessions. Why would you believe what these men wrote? Why not believe what Muhammed wrote? For one thing, Mohammed was convinced for some time that the spirits speaking to him in his cave were djinn, before he decided they were angels. Secondly, St. Paul warned believers to condemn even angels that came bearing a distorted gospel. But to phrase it more generically, why not John Adams? In terms of the scriptures, these were validated by Jesus, who proved his authority to do so by raising himself from the dead. The new testament in particular is brought to us from Jesus, recollected through the Paraclete and written by the apostles, men personally commissioned by God in the flesh to speak his word. As for the confessions, I do not hold to the Papist view that churchmen and their councils are infallible, or even good. However, in contrast to both the papists and later protestants, the Lutheran reformers truly sought to confess what scripture teaches, no matter how garrishly counter to human reason and philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhim Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Ben, I hope you did not miss my post at the end of the last page in which I gave my opinion of the gospel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeCycle Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Ben, in the version of the faith you ascribe to, how is salvation attained? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnacleben Posted July 11, 2013 Author Share Posted July 11, 2013 The gospel as I understand it also includes Jesus' suffering, dieing, rising, and appearing to witnesses. Of course, there is no logical reason to believe this or establish its probability. I assume the OPer grew up in a legalistic church and now sees a more liberal Lutheran gospel as the path to freedom in Christ. It might seem lighter, but it's still bad for ya. Your assumptions are off. The only legal requirement in the congregation of my youth was... Thou shalt feel really excited all the time. As for "liberal Lutheran" it seems to have all sorts of legalism strapped onto it. Sounds very Pentecostal to me. It had some prosperity-lite tendencies, but a more appropriate description is a mashup of an Elton John impersonater concert and Hal Lindsey's Late Great Planet Earth. It was steeped in mysticism and revivalism, but never had a pentecostal flavor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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