If Jesus Is God

[Realist]

Interestingly too, I was thinking you would be back to write that EXACT reply! I could have written it for you! So we do not know fundie christians? Does 57 years of lifetime abuse from them count for anything??

 

And I also know from being bought up in EXACTLY the same bullshit as you ... that if fundie christianity was NOT given the easy ride it is on this planet that it gets under the umbrella of the Wests religion of choice ... it would be them blowing the airliners out of the sky to make their statements!

[Margee]

 

 

 

 

 

1. 1 Bullshit Thessalonians 4:16

 

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice

it will be about fucking time someone heard 'his' voice' on this earth........

[pawn]

Wah, wah, wahhhhh.

[bornagainathiest]

 

This is seriously all that the "Lion's Den" has to offer?  Vitriolic hate and name calling towards another human being who simply disagrees with this "science" that denies the existence of an omnipotent one?  And this site purports to help those who are leaving Christianity to come to this side?  Oh, please I would love to come in with a group that can only resort to ad hominen tactics when their fancy big words don't make sense.  If you remember the story in the bible, the lions never touched Daniel. 

 

Context isn't your strong point, is it, Fungi-rye?

 

Daniel didn't cheerfully step into the Lion's Den as you cheerfully stepped into ours - so there's no comparison to be made.

 

Darius' satraps and administrators tricked their king into authorizing an unjust decree.  They knew that because of his allegiance to Yahweh, Daniel could not obey that decree.  But they also deliberately and maliciously withheld that vital piece of information from Darius, so that they could trap Daniel.   Apart from the words, 'Lion's Den' there's no link at all between those events and what's happened to you here. 

 

Nobody tricked you into writing what you've written.  Nobody authorized any special decrees, just to catch you out.  Nobody set any traps.  Nothing like that happened.  You just waltzed into here, expecting us to tumble before you, like a row of dominoes.  But that didn't happen.  Instead, we Lions ate you up!

 

Any leonine trouble you've experienced here is of your own making.

If you write stupid things, make stupid claims, deny the facts and choose NOT to think, who's fault is that?  Ours?  Nope!  Sorry, friend - you brought all of this down on yourself.

 

Besides. you are nothing like the prophet Daniel, FGR.  He displayed such exceptional qualities that King Darius planned to set him up as satrap over the whole kingdom.  I've seen NO exceptional qualities (stuff like thinking and reasoning) from you.  Also, Daniel was trustworthy.  I can't even trust you to quote me properly, can I?  

 

Here is a fact, I know just as little about science as you know about the bible that you said is evil and, one example, said God sanctioned rape.  I disputed that and showed clearly where that was not so. 

 

I see a bunch of prodigal son's who lost their way and said they know better than the Father.  Well, look where it got him?  But the story doesn't end there you should know.  God is calling his lost sheep back to the fold in the closing end of these times.  Many here are hearing that call.  When Jesus comes on the Feast of Trumpets in some year, which side of the fence will you be on?

 

1. 1 Corinthians 15:52

   in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
2. 1 Thessalonians 4:16
   For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

 

 

Here's a parthian shot for you, FGR.

 

Daniel 6 : 19 - 22, NIV.

¹⁹ At the first light of dawn, the king got up and hurried to the lions’ den.

²⁰ When he came near the den, he called to Daniel in an anguished voice, “Daniel, servant of the living God, has your God, whom you serve continually, been able to rescue you from the lions?”

²¹ Daniel answered, “May the king live forever!

²² My God sent his angel, and he shut the mouths of the lions. They have not hurt me, because I was found innocent in his sight. Nor have I ever done any wrong before you, Your Majesty.”

 

See that?

The reason why the lions hadn't hurt Daniel was because of his moral purity.  He was innocent before God.

 

You, on the other hand, are manifestly guilty of wanton and deliberate stupidity.

 

There's no real comparison between yourself and Daniel, is there?  (Rhetorical question, btw.)

[Realist]

 

 

You're the second prophet I have met here already. 

 

... at least I KNOW I am real!! 

[RogueScholar]

 

 

 

 

But when [scientific] theories contradict the Word of God, the theory is a lie.

…

 

Says the theist who admits he knows little, if anything, about any scientific theory.

But why would I want to know anything about theories and hypothesis when it can never be proven to be true?

 

Evolution has been proven true.  I have no idea what could possibly motivate you to learn about the truth.  You are on your own there.  I choose to learn about the truth because I'm honest.  You can't speak the truth unless you first learn the truth.  But that is just me.

Well when laws of entropy quit conflicting with evolution, give me a dingle.

It's really quite simple. Explain how "the laws of entropy" conflict with evolution. I continue to ask you to back this assertion up. Do you even know what entropy is and why it's a state function? I continue to ask you about the assertion in this post and you've yet to even indicate that you have even a rudimentary understanding of the terminology that you used. Please explain how entropy conflicts with evolution.

[Margee]

 

Again, Fungi, most of us are not the angry bitter types you think we are.

I believe this statement was proved wrong over the previous 20 and some pages. 

 

I truly am sorry there is so much bitterness and hate here.  I guess that is what happens when God is taken out of our lives.  Hate and chaos ensues.  I am not gonna put anymore scripture here, but Ben Stein had a good point.

 

"The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on CBS Sunday Morning Commentary.

 

 

My confession:

 

I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejewelled trees, Christmas trees. I don't feel threatened. I don't feel discriminated against. That's what they are, Christmas trees.

 

It doesn't bother me a bit when people say, “Merry Christmas” to me. I don't think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn't bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu. If people want a crib, it's just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.

 

I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from, that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution and I don't like it being shoved down my throat.

 

Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship celebrities and we aren't allowed to worship God? I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too. But there are a lot of us who are wondering where these celebrities came from and where the America we knew went to.

 

In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke; it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.

 

Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her: “How could God let something like this happen?” (regarding Hurricane Katrina). Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said: “I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?”

 

In light of recent events... terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found a few years ago) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK. Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school. The Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbour as yourself. And we said OK.

 

Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave, because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said okay.

 

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.

 

 

 

 

 Open your eyes fool!!

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

Interestingly too, I was thinking you would be back to write that EXACT reply! I could have written it for you! So we do not know fundie christians? Does 57 years of lifetime abuse from them count for anything??

 

And I also know from being bought up in EXACTLY the same bullshit as you ... that if fundie christianity was NOT given the easy ride it is on this planet that it gets under the umbrella of the Wests religion of choice ... it would be them blowing the airliners out of the sky to make their statements!

You're the second prophet I have met here already. 

 

And you're still not convinced?  Oh ye of little faith!

[slave2six]

 

Again, Fungi, most of us are not the angry bitter types you think we are.

I believe this statement was proved wrong over the previous 20 and some pages. 

 

I truly am sorry there is so much bitterness and hate here.  I guess that is what happens when God is taken out of our lives. 

 

You're like a little kid poking a man with a stick and then wondering why the man gets upset. You must not confuse losing our patience with you and being angry at god. 

 

I bet if you just went away and left us alone, the discontent you are experiencing would go away with you.

[Realist]

 

 

 

 

 Open your eyes fool!!

 

Margee, it is a bit hard opening one's eyes when you have your head stuck up your own ass! 

 

I have always said ... no point in debating with fundies! They cannot see anything else due to that blindfold!

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

Again, Fungi, most of us are not the angry bitter types you think we are.

I believe this statement was proved wrong over the previous 20 and some pages. 

 

I truly am sorry there is so much bitterness and hate here.  

While it may be possible that we define words differently, I have not seen much bitterness and hatred on this thread.  Rather, what I have seen is a lot of people getting frustrated by having to go around in circles with a man who intentionally remains ignorant despite our best efforts to help you open your eyes and see the truth.  This is a pretty normal reaction to such a situation.  

 

You make unfounded assertions that you can not back up with anything other than scripture, but you failed my challenge to you to prove that the scripture is true.  Yet when scientific evidence is presented to you, you simply scoff it off as though the guys in labcoats are simply making it all up.  You expect us to believe your god; but you refuse to even give the science which made your computer and internet connection possible the due it deserves.  

 

So, now that you have finally realized that many here are just as fluent in scripture as you, and that scripture is not welcome here simply because it isn't true, you are going to resort to appeals to authority and appeals to celebrity, as in the case with your Ben Stein quote.  You'll find that sort of thing equally ineffective here.

 

Lastly, the condescension and arrogance of your comparing yourself to the prophet Daniel have both been duly noted (and by a true prophet, to boot).

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

Doe this guy not understand what being on 'ignore' means? If you hadn't quoted him I'd have no idea he was still trying to address me.  fungi - YOU'RE ON IGNORE. I HAVE NOTHING TO SAY TO YOU AND AM NOT INTERESTED IN ANYTHING YOU HAVE TO SAY.

 

If you are trying to ignore funguy, I'd say you're doing a terrible job of it.

[RogueScholar]

 

 

 

 

 

 

But when [scientific] theories contradict the Word of God, the theory is a lie.

…

 

Says the theist who admits he knows little, if anything, about any scientific theory.

But why would I want to know anything about theories and hypothesis when it can never be proven to be true?

 

Evolution has been proven true.  I have no idea what could possibly motivate you to learn about the truth.  You are on your own there.  I choose to learn about the truth because I'm honest.  You can't speak the truth unless you first learn the truth.  But that is just me.

Well when laws of entropy quit conflicting with evolution, give me a dingle.

It's really quite simple. Explain how "the laws of entropy" conflict with evolution. I continue to ask you to back this assertion up. Do you even know what entropy is and why it's a state function? I continue to ask you about the assertion in this post and you've yet to even indicate that you have even a rudimentary understanding of the terminology that you used. Please explain how entropy conflicts with evolution.

I am reading stuff by Babu G. Ranganathan.  Very interesting.  Doesn't even sound like he is a believer.  Just a scientist.

How does this explain the "laws of entropy?"

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

 

 

Again, Fungi, most of us are not the angry bitter types you think we are.

I believe this statement was proved wrong over the previous 20 and some pages. 

 

I truly am sorry there is so much bitterness and hate here.  I guess that is what happens when God is taken out of our lives. 

 

You're like a little kid poking a man with a stick and then wondering why the man gets upset. You must not confuse losing our patience with you and being angry at god. 

 

I bet if you just went away and left us alone, the discontent you are experiencing would go away with you.

 

You probably see alot of types like me I guess. 

 

This was one of the kinder, more gentler responses.  It just completely boggles my mind if one who was a true believer and filled with the Ruach Hakodesh would want to leave that behind.  Boggled in fact.

Did you really just commit the No True Scotsman fallacy?  Fungi, I am truly disappointed in you; I had more respect for your mind than that.

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

I see a bunch of prodigal son's who lost their way and said they know better than the Father.  Well, look where it got him?  But the story doesn't end there you should know.  God is calling his lost sheep back to the fold in the closing end of these times.  Many here are hearing that call.  When Jesus comes on the Feast of Trumpets in some year, which side of the fence will you be on?

 

That's funny. I'd say we're more like the children of an absent father who never spoke to us or spent time with us. He leaves behind a bunch of instructions to follow while he's gone, but knows they are impossible to follow without his help (setting us up to fail) and then relies on people we don't even know to tell us that he's going to abuse us in unimaginably horrible ways for failing to follow every single instruction.

 

I don't hear any god calling, so he must not be interested in calling me, eh?

[pawn]

 

 

I see a bunch of prodigal son's who lost their way and said they know better than the Father. Well, look where it got him? But the story doesn't end there you should know. God is calling his lost sheep back to the fold in the closing end of these times. Many here are hearing that call. When Jesus comes on the Feast of Trumpets in some year, which side of the fence will you be on?

That's funny. I'd say we're more like the children of an absent father who never spoke to us or spent time with us. He leaves behind a bunch of instructions to follow while he's gone, but knows they are impossible to follow without his help (setting us up to fail) and then relies on people we don't even know to tell us that he's going to abuse us in unimaginably horrible ways for failing to follow every single instruction.

 

I don't hear any god calling, so he must not be interested in calling me, eh?

Damn straight crazy guy. "Bible god" is the delinquent father of all time.... Because... He doesn't even exist. Now that's a shitty dad.

[Ravenstar]

wow… at least 4 or 5 logical fallacies in the past couple of hours alone.

 

I am impressed!

[RipVanWinkle]

"Fully God and fully human." Nicene Creed

[mymistake]

 

Again, Fungi, most of us are not the angry bitter types you think we are.

I believe this statement was proved wrong over the previous 20 and some pages. 

 

Just add that to the hundreds of other beliefs you hold that are flat out wrong.

 

 

I truly am sorry there is so much bitterness and hate here.  I guess that is what happens when God is taken out of our lives.  Hate and chaos ensues.  

 

Not bitterness.  Not hate.  Not chaos.  And your rude behavior is not "God is taken out of our lives".  It's just you being rude.  That is all.

 

 

 

 

Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her: “How could God let something like this happen?” (regarding Hurricane Katrina). Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said: “I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?” 

 

It doesn't sound the least bit profound to me.  Try instead looking at how many hurricanes have struck the Gulf of Mexico in the last thousand years.  No myth is required to explain the pattern.

 

 

 

Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with 'WE REAP WHAT WE SOW.' 

 

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says. Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire, but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing. Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace. 

 

Actually life is gradually getting better because of science.  Try living during the Dark Ages or during an Ice Age.  Total devastation to most people and crying out to God did nothing.  Even today there are third world countries where crying out to God only gives you starvation for the vast majority of people.

[mymistake]

 

 

It's really quite simple. Explain how "the laws of entropy" conflict with evolution. I continue to ask you to back this assertion up. Do you even know what entropy is and why it's a state function? I continue to ask you about the assertion in this post and you've yet to even indicate that you have even a rudimentary understanding of the terminology that you used. Please explain how entropy conflicts with evolution.

 

I am reading stuff by Babu G. Ranganathan.  Very interesting.  Doesn't even sound like he is a believer.  Just a scientist.

 

 

You will never explain how entropy conflicts with evolution because it does not.  Since you cannot bring yourself to admit you were wrong (because then you might doubt your religion) you will leave.  When you go away you will pretend that you didn't get cornered and you were not found to be without answers.  You will just pat yourself on the back and tell yourself that you were persecuted for your beliefs.

[sdelsolray]

This one is not worth the time.  He needs some time to himself to explore concepts (which are foreign to him) such as curiosity, intellectual honesty and humility and to integrate those ethics into his being.  Afterwards he can apply them and address his psychological dysfunctions which include religious indoctrination, emotional immaturity and willful ignorance.

 

Only he can do this.  Currently, he is simply incapable of rational discourse.

[centauri]

 

"The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on CBS Sunday Morning Commentary.

 

...I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period.

Christians don't get pushed around, they encounter resistance to their agenda, which is to shove their religion into every facet of society.

 

I have no idea where the concept came from, that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution and I don't like it being shoved down my throat.

What atheist holidays are being shoved down your throat?

What public meetings are opened with prayers to an atheist deity?

 

Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship celebrities and we aren't allowed to worship God? I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too. But there are a lot of us who are wondering where these celebrities came from and where the America we knew went to.

Indeed, why should people worship Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, Ronald Reagan, etc?

You are allowed to worship God anytime you please.

You encounter resistance however, when you to put your gods on a public throne, wanting others to pay homage to it.

 

Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her: “How could God let something like this happen?” (regarding Hurricane Katrina). Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said: “I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?”

Anne Graham's response was asinine, but totally consistent with an ignorant, knuckle dragging fundamentalist mindset.

She assumes that her version of God exists and then goes further into the ozone by giving "him" a human personality.

 

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.

Christians and the Church killed Jews for not bowing to Jesus.

Do you approve of their God inspired morality Mr. Stein?

 

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says. Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire, but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing. Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.

Preaching about a God that sends people to hell for the sin of unbelief is also obscene.

Perhaps society should sacrifice goats and turn all decisions over to priests.

Didn't the church reach the apex of its power in a time known as the Dark Ages?

[sdelsolray]

Ben Stein is a little shit, at least when it comes to anything substantive.  As a comedian, he is just mediocre.  That movie he produced or acted in was chock full of standard creations PRATTs with the typical accompanying lies, misrepresentations, disingenuousness, logical fallacies and narcissistic anthropocentrism.

[pawn]

"This is what I believe. I cannot and will not believe anything else that contradicts this."

 

Wow. Your adamant and staunch close-mindedness is staggering.

 

Her are some examples of similar ignorance:

 

People should be sacrificed to the gods by knife.

"This is what I believe. I cannot and will not believe anything else that contradicts this."

 

Blacks are not humans, they are animals. It's ok to keep them as slaves. "This is what I believe. I cannot and will not believe anything else that contradicts this."

 

Women are property and not worthy to speak in the sanctuary, "This is what I believe. I cannot and will not believe anything else that contradicts this."

 

Jews are filthy and should be put in concentration camps. "This is what I believe. I cannot and will not believe anything else that contradicts this."

 

 

 

Sick stuff huh?

 

You see, believing something staunchly without evidence, and closing your mind to all other hypothesis is dangerous and sick.

 

Science is open to all hypothesis and closed-minded to nothing, but open to anything that can be demonstrated with empirical evidence.

[Realist]

But pawn ... would I be closed minded if I said that "God's Chosen People" and "The Master Race" have a very similar ring?

 

Both have a pretty racist tone to me!