If Jesus Is God

[Ravenstar]

You have NO concept of history… at all

 

Never in the history of humans have we ever lived as long, as healthy and with as little cruelty to one another. The 'good ole days' are a myth. Do you remember something called the BLACK PLAGUE? or the Spanish flu? The inquisition, the crusades? There hasn't been a world war since the 40's… women have rights! Children have rights!… people are even calling for animal rights.. at least we are trying to find out how to live sustainably on this little planet… 50 years ago the concept would have brought derision.

 

is it perfect? no… is it better overall? hell yes. Most of us living a century or two ago would not even have made it to the age we are today… if we survived our childhood at all. Much less us of the female persuasion - we were too busy dying in childbirth.

 

I don't know what some of my esteemed colleagues saw in you earlier… I still hold that you are an idiot. I really hope one day you can see reality, and see that we actually have it pretty darn good.

 

Read a history book.

[pawn]

But pawn ... would I be closed minded if I said that "God's Chosen People" and "The Master Race" have a very similar ring?

 

Both have a pretty racist tone to me!

No. I would say you are correct. They are logically similar, in that they emphasize exclusion.

[pratt]

if history contradicts the bullshit book, he will not believe

[RogueScholar]

Again, I must ask; do you even know what entropy is? You use the world so casually and integrated it into that woe is the world speech so well, I should expect you to actually know something about said concept. Please, enlighten me to the predictions of this biblical, god physics model. Did I miss a unified field theory or two in Genesis or perhaps I didn't see the Navier Stokes equations for turbulence derived from first principles in Psalms? Maybe I missed a better theory of plate tectonics in Revelation? I'm willing to entertain alternative hypotheses if they make better predictions that what we currently have. Maybe there is some super cool exegesis bible interpretation metric that will clarify it all?

[sdelsolray]

Romans 8:19-23

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

 

¹⁹ For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. ²⁰ For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope ²¹ that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. ²² For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. ²³ And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.

 

This is what I believe.  I cannot and will not believe anything else that contradicts this.  As frustrating as it is for you to continue hammer me with your science, is the same as hammering you with bible verses.   Apparently it ain't going anywhere.  There will be a time when there will be no entropy, but that is a story here that is not accepted.  I see absolutely no upward progression of us over the last 100 years.  More diseases, more earthquakes, more everything.  What science is doing is putting a big, ginormous band aid on the wounds and saying it is healed, yet ignoring the root of the decay...not following God's ways.  Interesting how he told us how to plant a crop, not mix seeds, don't muck with the natural order of creation, rest the land, rest our bodies, what to eat, what not to eat, where to put it when it passes, etc. 

 

I was talking with a geneticist who modifies crops, and he said essentially what they are doing is altering crops, yet not knowing what will be the long term effects 20 years from now.  The bee problem is a serious issue, which many sources I have read attributes it to the modified crops.  Amazing how God over 3500 years ago told the farmers not to mess with the natural order of creation.  We are now seeing the fall out of that. 

 

So if I am skeptical of science, you bet I am.  Some, not all, science is destroying this world and we are standing idly by picking our noses without so much as a care.  So yeah, really skeptical.

 

Frankly, I do not care what you believe.  You have already demonstrated willful ignorance and a serious dysfunctional addiction to a death and blood religious cult.  And you are proud of it.

 

Your world view is infantile, myopic and obsolete.

 

Isn't it time for you to go away and play with your Jesus Action Figure Set™?

[RogueScholar]

I'd also like to comment on the disease issue. For the first time in the known history of this world, organisms on this planet (humans) have engineered methods that have all but eradicated certain diseases. Jesus's supposed healing powers ain't got nothing on what we've been able to do with immunisations. We have started to master some microorganisms by injecting them with genetic material that programmes them to create new and effective treatments for diseases like diabetes. Back when J ditty and his crew roamed the Earth, you'd be sorry out of luck had you developed type I diabetes. Unfortunately, some bacteria are becoming resistant to our best therapies. This is not due to anything supernatural, but rather...wait for it...these organisms have evolved. Something predicted by the theory of...wait for it...evolution. In reality, people are living longer and healthier than ever due to science. Where's your god now?

[mymistake]

 

Romans 8:19-23

 

 

 

 

 

This is what I believe.  I cannot and will not believe anything else that contradicts this. 

 

We are done with believing what is contrary to the evidence so you might as well give up. 

 

 

As frustrating as it is for you to continue hammer me with your science, is the same as hammering you with bible verses.

 

You mean hammering you with science was frustrating for you. I enjoyed it.  Had a blast.  I find your Bible verse to be pathetic and funny for the ignorance mixed with irony.  

 

 

I see absolutely no upward progression of us over the last 100 years. 

 

The ignoramus typed on his computer keyboard and then uploaded the message to the world wide web.  Do you have any idea what a king or emperor in 1913 would have given for the power to instantly communicate with the whole world?  Or get a flu shot?  Or get inoculated agaisnt dozens of horrible diseases?  Or to get a organ transplant?  Or to get a hearing aid?  Or to travel through the sky in a jet at 500 miles per hour?  I could list hundreds of things you take for granted that didn't exist in 1913.

 

You choose to be ignorant.

 

 

More diseases, more earthquakes, more everything.  What science is doing is putting a big, ginormous band aid on the wounds and saying it is healed, yet ignoring the root of the decay...not following God's ways. 

 

There are no "God's ways" because there is no God.  All there is are the tools that priests and pastors and popes have used to enslave the masses.

 

 

 

Interesting how he told us how to plant a crop, not mix seeds, don't muck with the natural order of creation, rest the land, rest our bodies, what to eat, what not to eat, where to put it when it passes, etc. 

 

 

Said the Earth was flat.  Said you could build a tower to heaven.  Said that the sun hides at night.  You choose to be ignorant.

 

 

 

I was talking with a geneticist who modifies crops, and he said . . .

 

 

I seriously doubt you would grasp that conversation. 

 

 

 

So if I am skeptical of science, you bet I am.  Some, not all, science is destroying this world and we are standing idly by picking our noses without so much as a care.  So yeah, really skeptical

 

No you are not.  You don't know what skeptical means.  You are closed minded.  You refuse to accept any evidence that disagrees with your belief.  That isn't skeptical.  Skeptical would be to doubt all claims until you see objective evidence of them.  And of course you have never seen any objective evidence of God.  Not even once.  If you were skeptical of science then you would look at the evidence it offers, carefuly test and weigh it's merit and follow the evidence you happen to find.  Scientists are skeptical.  It's a state of mind they practice.

[Realist]

 

 

This is what I believe.  I cannot and will not believe anything else that contradicts this.  

 

ALSO:

I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period.

... fuck ... and to think we allow people and a nation that thinks this way to have nukes! What a sad, dangerous world!

[Ravenstar]

Stein's an ignorant fuck

[Realist]

Amos 8:11

 

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

 

11 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord God,

“When I will send a famine on the land,

Not a famine for bread or a thirst for water,

But rather for hearing the words of the Lord.

 

The hebrew word for "word" is dabar. Interesting that Deborah from Judges fame the meaning of her name is bee which also has the same root as dabar. So could the famine in the land also be not hearing the sound of the bees? Just something to think about.

 

http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/whats-killing-canadian-honeybees

 

http://qz.com/107970/scientists-discover-whats-killing-the-bees-and-its-worse-than-you-thought/

 

Thanks neonicotinoids

 

 

... you sad fucker! Get some help man!!

[mymistake]

Amos 8:11

 

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

 

11 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord God,

“When I will send a famine on the land,

Not a famine for bread or a thirst for water,

But rather for hearing the words of the Lord.

 

The hebrew word for "word" is dabar. Interesting that Deborah from Judges fame the meaning of her name is bee which also has the same root as dabar. So could the famine in the land also be not hearing the sound of the bees? Just something to think about.

 

http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/whats-killing-canadian-honeybees

 

http://qz.com/107970/scientists-discover-whats-killing-the-bees-and-its-worse-than-you-thought/

 

Thanks neonicotinoids

 

 

 

You might as well quote any other novel.  It's all quite irrelevant.

 

You do realize that Amos, along with the rest of the Bible, does not mention neonicotinoids.  That is because the Bible was written by ignorant barbarians.  It's no better than the book of mormon or the Egyptian Book of the Dead.  

 

Woop-tea-do.

[Realist]

Just thought I would put a link up for a theme song for you Fungie! (Bon Jovi ... Blaze of Glory.)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfmYCM4CS8o

[WarriorPoet]

 

Just thought I would put a link up for a theme song for you Fungie! (Bon Jovi ... Blaze of Glory.)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfmYCM4CS8o

Even Bon Jovi knows praying was good for you...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDK9QqIzhwk

 

Do you know any of the lyrics to that song?  The whole prayer thing didn't seem to be working out well for Tommy and Gina.

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

 

 

 

 

This is what I believe.  I cannot and will not believe anything else that contradicts this.  

 

ALSO:

I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period.

 

I thought that people who believed in God were sick of people not letting them force their religion upon everyone else that's not part of it.

 

Well, if you want to put up the great wall of Funguy between your brain and any view that does not agree with your beliefs, then I'm all for it, just as long as you don't become a government leader. You might start forcing your religion into schools to indoctrinate the children into believing in and serving that imaginary dictator you call "God".

[RogueScholar]

Prayer does wonders for people having cardiac surgery:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16569567/

 

Where's your god now?

[WarriorPoet]

 

 

 

Just thought I would put a link up for a theme song for you Fungie! (Bon Jovi ... Blaze of Glory.)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfmYCM4CS8o

Even Bon Jovi knows praying was good for you...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDK9QqIzhwk

 

Do you know any of the lyrics to that song?  The whole prayer thing didn't seem to be working out well for Tommy and Gina.

 

"Livin' On A Prayer"

 

 

Once upon a time

Not so long ago

 

Tommy used to work on the docks

Union's been on strike

He's down on his luck...it's tough, so tough

Gina works the diner all day

Working for her man, she brings home her pay

For love - for love

 

She says we've got to hold on to what we've got

'Cause it doesn't make a difference

If we make it or not

We've got each other and that's a lot

For love - we'll give it a shot

 

[Chorus:]

Whooah, we're half way there

Livin' on a prayer

Take my hand and we'll make it - I swear

Livin' on a prayer

 

Tommy's got his six string in hock

Now he's holding in what he used

To make it talk - so tough, it's tough

Gina dreams of running away

When she cries in the night

Tommy whispers baby it's okay, someday

 

We've got to hold on to what we've got

'Cause it doesn't make a difference

If we make it or not

We've got each other and that's a lot

For love - we'll give it a shot

 

[Chorus]

 

We've got to hold on ready or not

You live for the fight when it's all that you've got

 

[Chorus]

 

Seems to me when one is in desperation, prayer is A OK in Tommy and Gina's book.

 

Sure, they may believe it's A OK, but the words in this song show that it is doing nothing for them.  What little good they have in their lives comes from each other, not some deity that apparently can't be bothered to give them the smallest break.

 

When I woke up this morning, I never thought I would be talking about the lack of efficacy of prayer as shown in a Bon Jovi song.  Damn, life is unpredictable.

[mymistake]

So it takes an all powerful god to get the performance of a sugar pill?  These people were not miraculously healed.  They just showed overall improvements in natural recovery.

 

Well fortunately I do pray to Captain Kirk so I do will benefit from the same improvements in my life.

[mymistake]

 

So it takes an all powerful god to get the performance of a sugar pill?  These people were not miraculously healed.  They just shoed overall improvements in natural recovery.

 

Well fortunately I do pray to Captain Kirk so I do will benefit from the same improvements in my life.

So science is now being "poo pooed?" 

 

 

No.  Why do you ask?  

[RogueScholar]

 

Prayer does wonders for people having cardiac surgery:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16569567/

Where's your god now?

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/10547166/?i=4&from=/16569567/related

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/11142453/?i=5&from=/16569567/related

 

"RESULTS: Patients receiving in-person intercessory prayer showed significant overall improvement during 1-year follow-up. No additional effects from supplemental, distant intercessory prayer were found."

The first study you quoted by Harris actually used invalidated measures to score CCU patients.

 

The second study had a tiny number of subjects and it found no relation between remote prayer and outcomes. Additionally, it did not address the possibility that people coming in person with good thoughts or thoughts of support would be any different than prayer in person. In other words, it was small and quite flawed.

 

Try again.

[mymistake]

 

 

 

So it takes an all powerful god to get the performance of a sugar pill?  These people were not miraculously healed.  They just shoed overall improvements in natural recovery.

 

Well fortunately I do pray to Captain Kirk so I do will benefit from the same improvements in my life.

So science is now being "poo pooed?" 

 

 

No.  Why do you ask?  

 

Was that not two "scientific studies" showing improvements with those who received prayer?

 

 

Yes, mundane, ordinary natural improvements.  Not angels from the sky waving magic wands that take away bad stuff in a way that cannot be explained.  It's a placebo effect and science has long been aware that this effect exists.  However it is not limited to just prayer.  Many things can have a placebo effect.  God is a sugar pill.

[RogueScholar]

It can be tough with access to abstracts only. I actually looked at the literature in detail during my deconversion because I was desperate to hang onto my beliefs. With an abstract you can note red flags however. Take the second study. They used a total of 40 patients and those patients were highly homogenous. All of them were white and over 80% were women. This is a poor sample to represent a population of patients with rheumatoid arthritis. Additionally, all the patients came from the same practice.

 

Even though we don't know what the course scores were (how they were derived) from the first study, a red flag stands out from just looking at the abstract. While the authors report lower course scores, these scores did not correlate with decreased CCU length of stay and hospital length of stay. Number of days spent in the CCU are often reported in studies that aim to suggest an intervention is helpful. Basically, if something makes patients better, they should get out of the CCU and the hospital faster. This was not observed in the study however. These kinds of inconsistencies are red flags.

[RogueScholar]

Now, we can contrast those studies with the study I quoted:

 

It selected it's sample from six different hospitals. Additionally, they clearly identified the primary and secondary outcomes that were being tested. The primary outcomes included any complication (complication from the CABG procedure) in a 30 day period and a secondary outcome of major events and death.

[midniterider]

 

Again, Fungi, most of us are not the angry bitter types you think we are.

I believe this statement was proved wrong over the previous 20 and some pages. 

 

I truly am sorry there is so much bitterness and hate here.  I guess that is what happens when God is taken out of our lives.  Hate and chaos ensues.  I am not gonna put anymore scripture here, but Ben Stein had a good point.

 

"The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on CBS Sunday Morning Commentary.

 

 

My confession:

 

I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejewelled trees, Christmas trees. I don't feel threatened. I don't feel discriminated against. That's what they are, Christmas trees.

 

It doesn't bother me a bit when people say, “Merry Christmas” to me. I don't think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn't bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu. If people want a crib, it's just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.

 

I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from, that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution and I don't like it being shoved down my throat.

 

Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship celebrities and we aren't allowed to worship God? I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too. But there are a lot of us who are wondering where these celebrities came from and where the America we knew went to.

 

In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke; it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.

 

Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her: “How could God let something like this happen?” (regarding Hurricane Katrina). Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said: “I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?”

 

In light of recent events... terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found a few years ago) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK. Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school. The Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbour as yourself. And we said OK.

 

Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave, because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said okay.

 

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.

 

Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with 'WE REAP WHAT WE SOW.'

 

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says. Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire, but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing. Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.

 

Are you laughing yet?"

 

 

 

Fuck Ben Stein and his Facebook meme. Read that one last month.

[midniterider]

 

 

 

 

 

But when [scientific] theories contradict the Word of God, the theory is a lie.

…

 

Says the theist who admits he knows little, if anything, about any scientific theory.

 

 

But why would I want to know anything about theories and hypothesis when it can never be proven to be true? 

 

 

Evolution has been proven true.  I have no idea what could possibly motivate you to learn about the truth.  You are on your own there.  I choose to learn about the truth because I'm honest.  You can't speak the truth unless you first learn the truth.  But that is just me.

 

Well when laws of entropy quit conflicting with evolution, give me a dingle.

 

Romans 8:19-23

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

¹⁹ For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. ²⁰ For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope ²¹ that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. ²² For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. ²³ And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.

 

This is what I believe.  I cannot and will not believe anything else that contradicts this.  As frustrating as it is for you to continue hammer me with your science, is the same as hammering you with bible verses.   Apparently it ain't going anywhere.  There will be a time when there will be no entropy, but that is a story here that is not accepted.  I see absolutely no upward progression of us over the last 100 years.  More diseases, more earthquakes, more everything.  What science is doing is putting a big, ginormous band aid on the wounds and saying it is healed, yet ignoring the root of the decay...not following God's ways.  Interesting how he told us how to plant a crop, not mix seeds, don't muck with the natural order of creation, rest the land, rest our bodies, what to eat, what not to eat, where to put it when it passes, etc. 

 

I was talking with a geneticist who modifies crops, and he said essentially what they are doing is altering crops, yet not knowing what will be the long term effects 20 years from now.  The bee problem is a serious issue, which many sources I have read attributes it to the modified crops.  Amazing how God over 3500 years ago told the farmers not to mess with the natural order of creation.  We are now seeing the fall out of that. 

 

So if I am skeptical of science, you bet I am.  Some, not all, science is destroying this world and we are standing idly by picking our noses without so much as a care.  So yeah, really skeptical.

 

 

More bible shit. Must spew more bible shit to save their souls.

[midniterider]

"This is what I believe.  I cannot and will not believe anything else that contradicts this.  As frustrating as it is for you to continue hammer me with your science, is the same as hammering you with bible verses.   Apparently it ain't going anywhere.  There will be a time when there will be no entropy, but that is a story here that is not accepted.  I see absolutely no upward progression of us over the last 100 years.  More diseases, more earthquakes, more everything.  What science is doing is putting a big, ginormous band aid on the wounds and saying it is healed, yet ignoring the root of the decay...not following God's ways.  Interesting how he told us how to plant a crop, not mix seeds, don't muck with the natural order of creation, rest the land, rest our bodies, what to eat, what not to eat, where to put it when it passes, etc.  "

 

--

 

My pastor (momma, other churchies, fundy website) said it, I believe it, that settles it.

 

So are you going to treat us to more bible bullshit? Or go away. Nobody cares about your bible. It has no power. Zero. The only thing that powers Christianity is the hot air that you and other fanatical bozos preach. The bible is fiction. Your God is fiction. Now what? Probably more scare verses, right?

 

If you don't like what you've seen happen over the last 100 years, go find yourself an Amish community to live in, quit using your computer, your cell phone, your tv, quit taking anti-biotics, don't use a hospital...too much high tech shit there. Dont drive a car. Stop using electricity, disconnect off the internet.