Asimov Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 This is simply one of the many written laws of the Christain faith written for us to do our best to follow. Really? So if it were a law in the bible to kill black people...would you do it? Because there's a law in the bible which states to kill homosexuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ratioann Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 I believe there is something there about not mixing two types of fabric together also. I would not consider the Mosiac laws to be Christain laws. IF the Jesus in the NT said to kill black people or gay people...I would wonder because it also says to love others as yourself.. Besides vengence isn't our business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 The Bible also says you have to kill witches. I practiced Paganism for a while, briefly, after I left Christianity. You'd have to murder me, too, then. The whole thing is stupid, imho. Just because an ancient book written before the dawn of science says homosexuality is evil does not make it so. Do you believe everything you read? Do you click on Nigerian scam letters in your inbox? I hope not. Not all Christians believe that. I know lots of Christians who do not. My stepmom who is Catholic, and my dad who is Lutheran, are not homophobic. Why do you people think you have to be? Prejudice is the anti-thesis of the entire religion, and yet people can't seem to realize that they are using the religion as an excuse to be prejudiced. If there was a Bible verse that said "Jump off a cliff whenever you commit such-and-such sin (for example, lust) would you do it? I hope not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ratioann Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 I also practiced witchcraft a little bit, before I became Christian. I'm toast too, oops. I don't know what other branches of Christianity preach, but I believe we are all equally dead. No amount of good deeds or believing that one group, race, sex, or sexual preference is better will do any good. BUT the Bible does say some acts are wrong, and I follow that the best I can out of respect for God. I am not afraid of gays; thats just weird. The bible's saying that it is wrong isn't ancient either (Rom 1:26-27). Would I jump off a cliff? No, Jesus did it for me... in a way..Thats the whole idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted May 4, 2005 Author Share Posted May 4, 2005 BUT the Bible does say some acts are wrong, and I follow that the best I can out of respect for God. I am not afraid of gays; thats just weird. The bible's saying that it is wrong isn't ancient either (Rom 1:26-27). I don't see how that passage is a specific law against homosexual activity. It's talking about men leaving their women to have sex with other men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ratioann Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 I know you thread is about the law. & No, Rom. 1:26-27 is not a law. I thought it fit the topic though. I mean things don't have to be a law to be worth following. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 I thought it fit the topic though. I mean things don't have to be a law to be worth following. So if it doesn't have to be a "law" to be "worth following" as you put it....why all the hoopla? As I understand it, a christian "law" is something christians feel everyone (particularly other christians) should follow. Wheras something that falls under the catagory of advice or a suggestion as "worth following" seems to imply, then gay people should be accepted into your religion to the highest levels of the clergy. Because they aren't breaking any "law", they should therefore be fully eligible to participate without any social stigma. But we all know that isn't what happens, don't we? One of the things that bugs me about Christians, is the tendency to behave like the laws laid down in OT are all still valid, but to proclaim verbally that only NT counts whenever anyone points out the cruelties and short-comings of OT. I think actions speak louder than words. And the actions I've seen Christians exhibit towards gay people include shunning, intolerance, violence, scape-goating, and witch-hunts. Christian ACTIONS declare homosexuality to be against Christian law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmallStone Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 I believe there is something there about not mixing two types of fabric together also. I would not consider the Mosiac laws to be Christain laws. IF the Jesus in the NT said to kill black people or gay people...I would wonder because it also says to love others as yourself.. Besides vengence isn't our business. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If you accept the trinity then you're in a sticky situation. Also, please explain Matthew 5:16-18. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LloydDobler Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 If there was a Bible verse that said "Jump off a cliff whenever you commit such-and-such sin (for example, lust) would you do it? I hope not.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> 8 If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. 9 And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell. Ironic Amethyst. The bible does say to take extreme action in response to sin. Unfortunately it's pretty hard to cut off your brain, which is the source of most sin anyway, so in effect the bible says It's better to commit suicide than burn in hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlinfmct87 Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Of course since suicide is a mortal sin you're pretty much fucked as it is. Merlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ratioann Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Christian ACTIONS declare homosexuality to be against Christian law. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I can agree with that. I didn't say that verse was a law because it didn't say 'thou shalt not' and if you do you're toast next to it. That verse it really is talking about that being a consequence, the previous verse (Rom 1:25) talks about who would be given over to that consequence. I probably shouldn't have used that verse here, doesn't fit as well as it did last night.. I don't believe that we are required to follow the mosiac laws. I don't understand much about the law. Other Christians think it is right to tell people in the gay community that they are going to hell, some don't. I don't think the hell-fire method is good way to go as far evangelism is concerned... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Of course since suicide is a mortal sin you're pretty much fucked as it is. Merlin Can't win for losing. I've seen "here's my happy mask over my misery" Christians. I've seen "advertising happy for potential converts" Christians. And I've seen confused, hurt, and miserable Christians. And of course the many Christians who are all three (Real Trinity!!!! ). But I've never met a Christian who was truly happy, content, and secure. The Christian God seems to have a thing for manic-depressive worshippers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlinfmct87 Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 I can agree with that. I didn't say that verse was a law because it didn't say 'thou shalt not' and if you do you're toast next to it. That verse it really is talking about that being a consequence, the previous verse (Rom 1:25) talks about who would be given over to that consequence. I probably shouldn't have used that verse here, doesn't fit as well as it did last night.. I don't believe that we are required to follow the mosiac laws. I don't understand much about the law. Other Christians think it is right to tell people in the gay community that they are going to hell, some don't. I don't think the hell-fire method is good way to go as far evangelism is concerned... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'll hold you to that. I'm hopeful... but skeptecial. Merlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmallStone Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 I don't believe that we are required to follow the mosiac laws. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> On what do you base this belief? Please explain in light of the verse in Matthew I noted above. "I just make up whatever I like" is an acceptable answer BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 On what do you base this belief? Please explain in light of the verse in Matthew I noted above. "I just make up whatever I like" is an acceptable answer BTW. I love the internet, couldn't recall that part of Matthew, so I googled it. A little hard to get around NT declaring OT to still be in effect. I would also be interested in any Christians here explaining (flexibly re-wording) that one! Nice Smallstone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted May 4, 2005 Author Share Posted May 4, 2005 I can agree with that. I didn't say that verse was a law because it didn't say 'thou shalt not' and if you do you're toast next to it. That verse it really is talking about that being a consequence, the previous verse (Rom 1:25) talks about who would be given over to that consequence. I probably shouldn't have used that verse here, doesn't fit as well as it did last night.. I don't believe that we are required to follow the mosiac laws. I don't understand much about the law. Other Christians think it is right to tell people in the gay community that they are going to hell, some don't. I don't think the hell-fire method is good way to go as far evangelism is concerned... Your right, it doesn't fit, because it has nothing to do with homosexuality. I don't know about Mosaic law, but the hell-fire method completely obliterates the entire belief of Christianity, which the greatest commandment is to love God with all they heart. How can you do that when you're so damn afraid of going to hell that you just convert out of fear?? Can someone say, hypocrites?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ratioann Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Can't win for losing. I've seen "here's my happy mask over my misery" Christians. I've seen "advertising happy for potential converts" Christians. And I've seen confused, hurt, and miserable Christians. And of course the many Christians who are all three (Real Trinity!!!! ). But I've never met a Christian who was truly happy, content, and secure. The Christian God seems to have a thing for manic-depressive worshippers. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Crazy thing that..Since you're to know us by our fruits: peace, joy, love,etc. I'll hold you to that. I'm hopeful... but skeptecial. Merlin <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You mean on not preaching hell-fire? Used to be my fav, but I just pissed a lot of people off instead of enlightening them. Go figure. If you meant the mosiac laws, I only know..like, three of them.. I don't find them to be as important. On what do you base this belief? Please explain in light of the verse in Matthew I noted above. "I just make up whatever I like" is an acceptable answer BTW. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> "I just make up whatever I like" is way too easy and no fun at all. You don't really want me to say that.. Jesus obeyed the law, and took our punishment for it. Through faith we can appear blameless before God and not be sent to hell. We can't say now "oh, I can do whatever I want..I'm covered by the blood," We are now judged by our actions know through our consciences what is right. Only those that believe they can be justified by following the law are under the law. Hope that sounds the way it did in my head. I love the internet, couldn't recall that part of Matthew, so I googled it. A little hard to get around NT declaring OT to still be in effect. I would also be interested in any Christians here explaining (flexibly re-wording) that one! Nice Smallstone! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I always try my best to avoid hermeneutical gymnastics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmallStone Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Jesus obeyed the law, and took our punishment for it. Through faith we can appear blameless before God and not be sent to hell. We can't say now "oh, I can do whatever I want..I'm covered by the blood," We are now judged by our actions know through our consciences what is right. Only those that believe they can be justified by following the law are under the law. Hope that sounds the way it did in my head. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> "I just make up whatever I want" would have been considerably more accurate and considerably less verbose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 I always try my best to avoid hermeneutical gymnastics. I've really never understood the whole notion of re-interpreting the bible anyway. What's to interpret? Why even wrestle over what those words really mean. A lot of effort goes into making the words of the bible "mean" something other than the literal interpretation of the words printed right there in the pages. Seems like spin-doctoring to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlinfmct87 Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Can't win for losing. I've seen "here's my happy mask over my misery" Christians. I've seen "advertising happy for potential converts" Christians. And I've seen confused, hurt, and miserable Christians. And of course the many Christians who are all three (Real Trinity!!!! ). But I've never met a Christian who was truly happy, content, and secure. The Christian God seems to have a thing for manic-depressive worshippers. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> LOL Yes, I've seen that trinity...especially in the testimonies section. Merlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ratioann Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 I've really never understood the whole notion of re-interpreting the bible anyway. What's to interpret? Why even wrestle over what those words really mean. A lot of effort goes into making the words of the bible "mean" something other than the literal interpretation of the words printed right there in the pages. Seems like spin-doctoring to me. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Preach it. People twist the Bible for fun and profit. If you're good enough at it, you can even make yourself god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Preach it. People twist the Bible for fun and profit. If you're good enough at it, you can even make yourself god. Of course, you realize the literal interpretation of the bible is more than enough to discourage Christianity. In fact, actually reading it is why most of us AREN'T Christians anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LloydDobler Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Preach it. People twist the Bible for fun and profit. If you're good enough at it, you can even make yourself god. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Isn't that what it's called when people just decide on their own which rules to follow and which ones to dismiss? We're talking about acts that were punishable by death in the old testament. People were executed for doing those things, and you just decide it doesn't matter anymore? Must be fun to be your own god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ nivek ♦ Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Any guy who says he doesn't get a chubby while watching girls kiss is a liar... Lets see, liar-ing, lust-ing, and general getting wood over things that *goHwD said* was *immoral* and such.. Damn the religious sectarian is hosed even for *looking*.. As for me, I'll be happy for the chubby and salute it.. n Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LloydDobler Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Any guy who says he doesn't get a chubby while watching girls kiss is a liar... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hell, I got a semi just from you writing about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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