midniterider Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 No wonder his wife left him. Love the believer. Hate the belief. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 No wonder his wife left him. Outside the lines S. Hell has a special place for you. You went there first. Why are you pulling this crap? We were supportive for you when you needed people the most. Is it so much to ask you to either keep your funny religion to yourself or accept the fact that we reject that faith so it won't mean anything to us? You come here with your home brewed theology that would be rejected as heresy by any main line Christian denomination and then you act rude if we don't fall in love with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 No wonder his wife left him. Outside the lines S. Hell has a special place for you. Tough guy who doesn't take responsibility for his own conduct, past and present. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Let's talk about secular morality. No, we're not omniscient However, we can objectively see that certain actions are beneficial to society as a whole We can see that certain actions harm members of society There's lots of middle ground, give and take, that's why we have political parties for one. How ought we to govern is an important debate With religion, it is 'thus says the lord.' Which lord again? How do you know that your lord is the one? How do you know that he hasn't told others his will? To kill children? How do you know? The answer is, you don't. This is the christian/muslim/religionist stance. They fool themselves into thinking that they know because their god knows, when in reality the god they know is only their own imaginary friend. This is why there's millions of different religions, and not a single one has ever contributed to the betterment of society as much as science. "This is why there's millions of different religions, and not a single one ever contributed to the betterment of society as science." Are you saying that the Christian faith had zero influence on the rise of science in history? Look what happened in the dark ages. Compare that to the enlightenment era. My question was not a compare and contrast question. Again: Are you saying that the Christian faith had zero influence on the rise of science in history? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 Let's talk about secular morality. No, we're not omniscient However, we can objectively see that certain actions are beneficial to society as a whole We can see that certain actions harm members of society There's lots of middle ground, give and take, that's why we have political parties for one. How ought we to govern is an important debate With religion, it is 'thus says the lord.' Which lord again? How do you know that your lord is the one? How do you know that he hasn't told others his will? To kill children? How do you know? The answer is, you don't. This is the christian/muslim/religionist stance. They fool themselves into thinking that they know because their god knows, when in reality the god they know is only their own imaginary friend. This is why there's millions of different religions, and not a single one has ever contributed to the betterment of society as much as science. "This is why there's millions of different religions, and not a single one ever contributed to the betterment of society as science." Are you saying that the Christian faith had zero influence on the rise of science in history? That's not what I've said at all. "Not a single one (religion) has ever contributed to the betterment of society as much as science." What is it with christians adding words to what people said? End and IH just demonstrated this. Oh wait... that's the basis for religion... my bad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Are you saying that the Christian faith had zero influence on the rise of science in history? Yeah, just like the Western Hemisphere would have never been discovered if Christopher Columbus hadn't done it. People would have discovered science eventually because we have brains that were capable. Christianity's smothering reach probably slowed the process down. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBxURFAYkQ0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Let's talk about secular morality. No, we're not omniscient However, we can objectively see that certain actions are beneficial to society as a whole We can see that certain actions harm members of society There's lots of middle ground, give and take, that's why we have political parties for one. How ought we to govern is an important debate With religion, it is 'thus says the lord.' Which lord again? How do you know that your lord is the one? How do you know that he hasn't told others his will? To kill children? How do you know? The answer is, you don't. This is the christian/muslim/religionist stance. They fool themselves into thinking that they know because their god knows, when in reality the god they know is only their own imaginary friend. This is why there's millions of different religions, and not a single one has ever contributed to the betterment of society as much as science. "This is why there's millions of different religions, and not a single one ever contributed to the betterment of society as science." Are you saying that the Christian faith had zero influence on the rise of science in history? That's not what I've said at all. "Not a single one (religion) has ever contributed to the betterment of society as much as science." What is it with christians adding words to what people said? End and IH just demonstrated this. Oh wait... that's the basis for religion... my bad... Your statement sounds like you think Christianity had zero influence on science. I"m just trying to see if that is your view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 Tell me, does "zero" equal "not as much as" in your reasoning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 Ah, I see it now, didn't see it before. This is what IH quoted me as saying: "This is why there's millions of different religions, and not a single one ever contributed to the betterment of society as science." This is what I really said. Note that I have not edited my post: "This is why there's millions of different religions, and not a single one has ever contributed to the betterment of society as much as science." Classic. Can't even cut and paste right, or was it deliberate? Either one is bad, either one shows genuine dishonesty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Tell me, does "zero" equal "not as much as" in your reasoning? "This is why there's millions of different religions, and not a single one has ever contributed to the betterment of society as much as science." I agree that science has made our lives much better. My disagreement is ignoring the fact that going back centuries, it was Christians who helped pioneer advances in science that led us to the modern age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 Tell me, does "zero" equal "not as much as" in your reasoning? "This is why there's millions of different religions, and not a single one has ever contributed to the betterment of society as much as science." I agree that science has made our lives much better. My disagreement is ignoring the fact that going back centuries, it was Christians who helped pioneer advances in science that led us to the modern age. https://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Age_of_Enlightenment.html "The Age of Enlightenment (or simply the Enlightenment) is the era in Western philosophy, intellectual, scientific and cultural life, centered upon the 18th century, in which reason was advocated as the primary source for legitimacy and authority." What did the papacy do during the dark ages to advance scientific endeavor? Nothing. What has human reasoning done? It let us to where we are now. Reason > Religion. Thinking, reasoning, debating, and holding no ground sacred from attack is what got us here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Yes, if Christianity brought us science then how come Christianity didn't do so over 1500 years sooner? And since God the Son was suppose to be the same God as the God of Abraham why didn't get science 3,000 years ago? Think of all the suffering that could have been relieved. But if God is imaginary then we would expect exactly what actually happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtify Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Tell me, does "zero" equal "not as much as" in your reasoning? "This is why there's millions of different religions, and not a single one has ever contributed to the betterment of society as much as science." I agree that science has made our lives much better. My disagreement is ignoring the fact that going back centuries, it was Christians who helped pioneer advances in science that led us to the modern age. By doing things like torturing people that questioned the geocentric model. Just one example of how christianity was so open to advancing science. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Tell me, does "zero" equal "not as much as" in your reasoning? "This is why there's millions of different religions, and not a single one has ever contributed to the betterment of society as much as science." I agree that science has made our lives much better. My disagreement is ignoring the fact that going back centuries, it was Christians who helped pioneer advances in science that led us to the modern age. Is it xianity or xians who supposedly helped science. It matters which one. You changed the word from xianity to xians. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 He's good at that, changing bits of what was original said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Tell me, does "zero" equal "not as much as" in your reasoning? "This is why there's millions of different religions, and not a single one has ever contributed to the betterment of society as much as science." I agree that science has made our lives much better. My disagreement is ignoring the fact that going back centuries, it was Christians who helped pioneer advances in science that led us to the modern age. https://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Age_of_Enlightenment.html "The Age of Enlightenment (or simply the Enlightenment) is the era in Western philosophy, intellectual, scientific and cultural life, centered upon the 18th century, in which reason was advocated as the primary source for legitimacy and authority." What did the papacy do during the dark ages to advance scientific endeavor? Nothing. What has human reasoning done? It let us to where we are now. Reason > Religion. Thinking, reasoning, debating, and holding no ground sacred from attack is what got us here. I'm not talking papacy. I'm talking Christians who pioneered the rise of science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Let's talk about secular morality. No, we're not omniscient However, we can objectively see that certain actions are beneficial to society as a whole We can see that certain actions harm members of society There's lots of middle ground, give and take, that's why we have political parties for one. How ought we to govern is an important debate With religion, it is 'thus says the lord.' Which lord again? How do you know that your lord is the one? How do you know that he hasn't told others his will? To kill children? How do you know? The answer is, you don't. This is the christian/muslim/religionist stance. They fool themselves into thinking that they know because their god knows, when in reality the god they know is only their own imaginary friend. This is why there's millions of different religions, and not a single one has ever contributed to the betterment of society as much as science. "This is why there's millions of different religions, and not a single one ever contributed to the betterment of society as science." Are you saying that the Christian faith had zero influence on the rise of science in history? You (intentionally?) misquoted Roz. Plus, reading comprehension is not your strong suit. His quote: "[N]ot a single one has ever contributed to the betterment of society as much as science." Your quote: "[N]ot a single one ever contributed to the betterment of society as science." You deleted the "as much". A simple mistake? A disingenuous act? Tell us, please. Your followup question demonstrates your lack of reading comprehension: "Are you saying that the Christian faith had zero influence on the rise of science in history?" He did not say that at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I'm not talking papacy. I'm talking Christians who pioneered the rise of science. Because anybody who wasn't a Christian got burned at the stake as a heretic. It is easy to be the religion that brings everything to the world if you kill all the competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 The papacy had free reign over Europe during what we call the dark ages. This was followed by the Renaissance and the Age of Reason. Answer why the papacy -the paramount christian power- actively suppressed humanity's scientific exploration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Tell me, does "zero" equal "not as much as" in your reasoning? "This is why there's millions of different religions, and not a single one has ever contributed to the betterment of society as much as science." I agree that science has made our lives much better. My disagreement is ignoring the fact that going back centuries, it was Christians who helped pioneer advances in science that led us to the modern age. Correlation does not demonstrate causation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 But nobody got burned at the stake for heresy. Our reading of history is biased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Tell me, does "zero" equal "not as much as" in your reasoning? "This is why there's millions of different religions, and not a single one has ever contributed to the betterment of society as much as science." I agree that science has made our lives much better. My disagreement is ignoring the fact that going back centuries, it was Christians who helped pioneer advances in science that led us to the modern age. https://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Age_of_Enlightenment.html "The Age of Enlightenment (or simply the Enlightenment) is the era in Western philosophy, intellectual, scientific and cultural life, centered upon the 18th century, in which reason was advocated as the primary source for legitimacy and authority." What did the papacy do during the dark ages to advance scientific endeavor? Nothing. What has human reasoning done? It let us to where we are now. Reason > Religion. Thinking, reasoning, debating, and holding no ground sacred from attack is what got us here. I'm not talking papacy. I'm talking Christians who pioneered the rise of science. Some had red hair. Obviously, science was pioneered because some people had red hair. Everyone who ate pickles before 1850 is dead. Therefore, pickles cause people to die. Do you see how silly those statements are? Again, correlation does not demonstrate causation. You aren't "talking" anything. You're making a mere assertion - that humans who pioneered science could only do so, or only did so, because of their religion. Since that is your claim, please provide relevant empirical evidence demonstrating causation (not mere correlation) to support your claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Tell me, does "zero" equal "not as much as" in your reasoning? "This is why there's millions of different religions, and not a single one has ever contributed to the betterment of society as much as science." I agree that science has made our lives much better. My disagreement is ignoring the fact that going back centuries, it was Christians who helped pioneer advances in science that led us to the modern age. By doing things like torturing people that questioned the geocentric model. Just one example of how christianity was so open to advancing science. Have you never read about Copernicus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 Have you never read about Copernicus? Have YOU read about Copernicus? http://burro.astr.cwru.edu/stu/pre20th_europe_church.html "Copernicus' publication On the Revolution of the Celestial Spheres was not published until after he died in order for him to avoid being persecuted by the Church. Often called the Copernican Revolution, this actually was not much of a revolution. The book was published in Latin, so the general public was not able to read it. Academics could, but few learned people were willing to face the Church and risk death. It wasn't even until 73 years after it was published, 1616, did the Church consider it important enough to place on its Index of Prohibited Books." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Have you never read about Copernicus? Have YOU read about Copernicus? http://burro.astr.cwru.edu/stu/pre20th_europe_church.html "Copernicus' publication On the Revolution of the Celestial Spheres was not published until after he died in order for him to avoid being persecuted by the Church. Often called the Copernican Revolution, this actually was not much of a revolution. The book was published in Latin, so the general public was not able to read it. Academics could, but few learned people were willing to face the Church and risk death. It wasn't even until 73 years after it was published, 1616, did the Church consider it important enough to place on its Index of Prohibited Books." And the part you did not post from the site: "However, it did put heliocentric views out in the restricted open, and it was useful to people such as Galileo to help revolutionize astronomy in Europe." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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