bornagainathiest Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 End, There is nothing that you can do to undo your own standard (everything is subjective) except by recanting it. There is nothing you can do or ask anyone else to do which can undo what you've done here. You can use whatever Biblical words you like (communion, sacrifice, grace, relationships, whatever) and it still changes nothing. Everything is still subjective and stays that way until you change your mind on this. Use whatever definitions you like, invent new words if you want to, rely on imaginary things if you wish - it'll make no difference. None of us can get anywhere or go anywhere with you on this because you've made it impossible. Only you can unmake this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Here's the problem, End3. Everything is subjective. That means everything you say, everything you think, every positive claim, sweeping statement, or simple opinion you give is, by your own definition, subjective. This means that none of these things has been considered objectively. As a result, nothing that comes from you will be trustworthy to anyone who is objective. But here's the other side of that coin. If I (make the same mistake twice) offer you my own ideas, to which you claim to be open (and we know already that's a lie), I do so knowing that, in your mind, everything is subjective. The result of this is that, even if I give you an objective idea of the objective reality around you (as I did in the "Grace Is The Knowledge..." thread), you will assume it is subjective, because your subjective beliefs (faith) will not allow you to do otherwise, despite the fact that alternatives have been pointed out repeatedly. Since you will make this assumption, the only logical conclusion for you will be that my idea, being "subjective", is also untrustworthy. You speak of "grace and relationships"; but now, because of your subjective beliefs (faith), we come to the point at which we can no longer trust one another. This isn't a problem with me; nor is it a problem with you. The problem is that your faith stands between you and I (and the other members of this site). Would you continue to allow your faith to stand between yourself and those who care about you? Was traveling yesterday. No, y'all are being something...can't think of the right word atm. I am capable of objective thinking and have told y'all that several times....have offered to participate even. But with that said, even my best objective efforts are still subjective by definition. If y'all would like to keep playing games, that's fine, just leave me out. Keeping you honest and holding you accountable to your own words is not game playing on our part, End. Saying that objective is subjective is playing with the meaning of words. You are the one playing word games here. No, on ANYONE's best efforts we can't remove subjectivity. Instruments are even subjective on some level. If everything is unavoidably subjective End, why did you want to know what my point was 48 hours ago? Your own perception of my point would have been unavoidably subjective - so why ask for it? (Bump!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Here's the problem, End3. Everything is subjective. That means everything you say, everything you think, every positive claim, sweeping statement, or simple opinion you give is, by your own definition, subjective. This means that none of these things has been considered objectively. As a result, nothing that comes from you will be trustworthy to anyone who is objective. But here's the other side of that coin. If I (make the same mistake twice) offer you my own ideas, to which you claim to be open (and we know already that's a lie), I do so knowing that, in your mind, everything is subjective. The result of this is that, even if I give you an objective idea of the objective reality around you (as I did in the "Grace Is The Knowledge..." thread), you will assume it is subjective, because your subjective beliefs (faith) will not allow you to do otherwise, despite the fact that alternatives have been pointed out repeatedly. Since you will make this assumption, the only logical conclusion for you will be that my idea, being "subjective", is also untrustworthy. You speak of "grace and relationships"; but now, because of your subjective beliefs (faith), we come to the point at which we can no longer trust one another. This isn't a problem with me; nor is it a problem with you. The problem is that your faith stands between you and I (and the other members of this site). Would you continue to allow your faith to stand between yourself and those who care about you? Was traveling yesterday. No, y'all are being something...can't think of the right word atm. I am capable of objective thinking and have told y'all that several times....have offered to participate even. But with that said, even my best objective efforts are still subjective by definition. If y'all would like to keep playing games, that's fine, just leave me out. Keeping you honest and holding you accountable to your own words is not game playing on our part, End. Saying that objective is subjective is playing with the meaning of words. You are the one playing word games here. No, on ANYONE's best efforts we can't remove subjectivity. Instruments are even subjective on some level. If subjectivity cannot be removed, what's the advantage of going with faith, End? (Bump!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 It's very simple. We can have a scientific conversation if you would like. There is really nothing more to add imo. And you ask what is to be gained. Understanding another person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 I do not really require acceptance to feel like I belong to a group. I don't have a longing or yearning for acceptance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 It's very simple. We can have a scientific conversation if you would like. There is really nothing more to add imo. And you ask what is to be gained. Understanding another person. If the above post was intended as a response to me End, I note that (once again) you've declined to answer my question. If subjectivity cannot be removed, what's the advantage of going with faith, End? If this wasn't intended for me, please consider this post to be a polite reminder about this as-yet-unanswered question. Please respond with an answer to the question. Thanks, BAA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 It's very simple. We can have a scientific conversation if you would like. There is really nothing more to add imo. And you ask what is to be gained. Understanding another person. If the above post was intended as a response to me End, I note that (once again) you've declined to answer my question. If subjectivity cannot be removed, what's the advantage of going with faith, End? That wss the answer...to understand another person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 It's very simple. We can have a scientific conversation if you would like. There is really nothing more to add imo. And you ask what is to be gained. Understanding another person. If the above post was intended as a response to me End, I note that (once again) you've declined to answer my question. If subjectivity cannot be removed, what's the advantage of going with faith, End? That wss the answer...to understand another person. That reply did not specify exactly what the advantage was gained by going with faith. Therefore, I'll rephrase. If subjectivity cannot be removed, please specify why it's advantageous to go with faith, rather than another option. Here you need to specify what the exact advantages are of going with faith, as compared to going with another option. So now that's two specific responses please, End. 1. WHY it's advantageous to go with faith - over another option. 2. Exactly WHAT that advantage is. (Describe as accurately as you can) Thanks, BAA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 It's very simple. We can have a scientific conversation if you would like. There is really nothing more to add imo. And you ask what is to be gained. Understanding another person. If the above post was intended as a response to me End, I note that (once again) you've declined to answer my question. If subjectivity cannot be removed, what's the advantage of going with faith, End? That wss the answer...to understand another person. Come on man. You really think believing what isn't true and making shit up as you go along helps you understand others? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Here's the problem, End3. Everything is subjective. That means everything you say, everything you think, every positive claim, sweeping statement, or simple opinion you give is, by your own definition, subjective. This means that none of these things has been considered objectively. As a result, nothing that comes from you will be trustworthy to anyone who is objective. But here's the other side of that coin. If I (make the same mistake twice) offer you my own ideas, to which you claim to be open (and we know already that's a lie), I do so knowing that, in your mind, everything is subjective. The result of this is that, even if I give you an objective idea of the objective reality around you (as I did in the "Grace Is The Knowledge..." thread), you will assume it is subjective, because your subjective beliefs (faith) will not allow you to do otherwise, despite the fact that alternatives have been pointed out repeatedly. Since you will make this assumption, the only logical conclusion for you will be that my idea, being "subjective", is also untrustworthy. You speak of "grace and relationships"; but now, because of your subjective beliefs (faith), we come to the point at which we can no longer trust one another. This isn't a problem with me; nor is it a problem with you. The problem is that your faith stands between you and I (and the other members of this site). Would you continue to allow your faith to stand between yourself and those who care about you? Was traveling yesterday. No, y'all are being something...can't think of the right word atm. I am capable of objective thinking and have told y'all that several times....have offered to participate even. But with that said, even my best objective efforts are still subjective by definition. If y'all would like to keep playing games, that's fine, just leave me out. Keeping you honest and holding you accountable to your own words is not game playing on our part, End. Saying that objective is subjective is playing with the meaning of words. You are the one playing word games here. No, on ANYONE's best efforts we can't remove subjectivity. Instruments are even subjective on some level. If everything is unavoidably subjective End, why did you want to know what my point was 48 hours ago? Your own perception of my point would have been unavoidably subjective - so why ask for it? (Bump!) (Re-bump!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted December 14, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted December 14, 2014 That is all I can offer because I can't objectively place objective outside of subjective. Thx. This is precisely what makes objective discourse impossible. As BAA said, you have to recant your stance on everything being subjective before objective discussion can be had. Sorry, End3, but it's your standard that stands in the way, not ours. We are open-minded and willing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted December 14, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted December 14, 2014 It's very simple. We can have a scientific conversation if you would like. There is really nothing more to add imo. And you ask what is to be gained. Understanding another person. If the above post was intended as a response to me End, I note that (once again) you've declined to answer my question. If subjectivity cannot be removed, what's the advantage of going with faith, End? That wss the answer...to understand another person. That answer fails. I understand BAA without the milestone of faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 That is all I can offer because I can't objectively place objective outside of subjective. Thx. This is precisely what makes objective discourse impossible. As BAA said, you have to recant your stance on everything being subjective before objective discussion can be had. Sorry, End3, but it's your standard that stands in the way, not ours. We are open-minded and willing. Do you see how your perception is just as biased towards you not giving to have the conversation? In order for this to happen in my opinion, I would have to lean toward objective and you would have to lean towards subjective.....regardless of how well you understand BAA. I'm not BAA. Again, for some kind of equilibrium to take place, I have offered to have an objective, to the best of my ability, conversation with y'all. You keep declining citing that I can't be objective to your satisfaction. This is ok, but please don't say I didn't offer to bend, because I have. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 It's very simple. We can have a scientific conversation if you would like. There is really nothing more to add imo. And you ask what is to be gained. Understanding another person. If the above post was intended as a response to me End, I note that (once again) you've declined to answer my question. If subjectivity cannot be removed, what's the advantage of going with faith, End? That wss the answer...to understand another person. That answer fails. I understand BAA without the milestone of faith. One data point doesn't mean anything fails sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 One data point doesn't mean anything fails sir. It's not one data point. It's everyone besides you. You are the lone data point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted December 14, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted December 14, 2014 That is all I can offer because I can't objectively place objective outside of subjective. Thx. This is precisely what makes objective discourse impossible. As BAA said, you have to recant your stance on everything being subjective before objective discussion can be had. Sorry, End3, but it's your standard that stands in the way, not ours. We are open-minded and willing. Do you see how your perception is just as biased towards you not giving to have the conversation? In order for this to happen in my opinion, I would have to lean toward objective and you would have to lean towards subjective.....regardless of how well you understand BAA. I'm not BAA. Again, for some kind of equilibrium to take place, I have offered to have an objective, to the best of my ability, conversation with y'all. You keep declining citing that I can't be objective to your satisfaction. This is ok, but please don't say I didn't offer to bend, because I have. Thanks. Again, and I mean no disrespect, but this is simply not true. In the "Grace Is The Knowledge..." thread, you asked for us to put forth ideas for objective discussion. I did so. After having to nudge you a few times, you finally gave your initial response, which was something to the effect of "That was really well written." Not content with that response, I pressed you for further comment and you basically said, "I'm not sure I really understand." I've done my share of giving in order to have an objective discussion here. You were the one who asked for ideas; I was the one to supply one. You ducked the discussion. Stop trying to shift the blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 I await End's response to the Prof as I patiently await for his answers to my questions. Thanks, BAA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duderonomy Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 For the love of all that we hold true, can we drop the subjective and objective stuff and just talk about what is real? (Just throwing this out there for a laugh) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Ha-ha!!!! <----- Hey! It worked! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 For the love of all that we hold true, can we drop the subjective and objective stuff and just talk about what is real? (Just throwing this out there for a laugh) Well isn't that the point? Somebody doesn't want to stick to what is real. When everyone else wants to be real he says "Nah, let's keep it unreal". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 *conversation between End and his homies* Yo, End! What up dog? Supp, homey? I just be keepin' it unreal, man. You know. Just keepin' it unreal. Sheeeit, End, I don't know what you be sayin'! Thass awight, homey. You don't have to know what I be sayin' to know what I be sayin'. Say what, muthafucka?!? Yeah, thass right! You know what I be sayin'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 In this thread we've tried to keep End3 honest and accountable to his own mantra, "Everything is subjective". So, whatever he posted, it's been subjective - because he's a helpless victim of his own subjectivity. Therefore, we should help him out by keeping him honest... for as long ...as he's a helpless victim. Which means that... wherever he goes ...we'll have to go there too, to help him out and keep him honest. . . . It's the least we can do for someone who's a helpless victim of their own subjectivity. Thanks, BAA. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted December 17, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted December 17, 2014 It would appear that, once again, we've brought End3 too close to the truth about himself and he has decided to hightail it back to the safety of his own seclusion, hoping that, upon his eventual return, we will have forgotten all about this little run-in with the truth. Licking his wounds, End3 has chosen self-appointed exile in order to re-instill in himself a faith that his deepest nether-reaches can no longer tolerate. Or, maybe, he's just run off because he can't face the truth. After all, for him, even truth is subjective. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 It would appear that, once again, we've brought End3 too close to the truth about himself and he has decided to hightail it back to the safety of his own seclusion, hoping that, upon his eventual return, we will have forgotten all about this little run-in with the truth. Licking his wounds, End3 has chosen self-appointed exile in order to re-instill in himself a faith that his deepest nether-reaches can no longer tolerate. Or, maybe, he's just run off because he can't face the truth. After all, for him, even truth is subjective. If I'm just going to be harassed rather than having a discussion, I'd rather not. Was thinking about it. I think the reason we are at an impasse is our core beliefs hinge on this conversation. Ordinarily I think people are more willing to compromise in a discussion...but not this time. Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 If I'm just going to be harassed rather than having a discussion, I'd rather not. It's simple End. Don't harass people here, yes not even the women, and you won't taste the consequences of your actions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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