My wife is making me go to church.

[Thurisaz]

I cant even get her to read her bible.

 

How funny is it that she is the christian, but finds the bible boring?

 

Aaah, the irony... the sweet irony...

 

(Well, it would be sweet if no innocent people would be suffering due to it)

[Guest jdrobins2000]

I'd say gave it a shot and see how it goes. I personally found it too vexing to continue attended as I was deconverting, but I guess the wounds were too fresh then. I haven't been since, so maybe now it may not bother me as much. If it doesn't bother you, and you see more humor in it than irritation, then that's one hurdle cleared. No sense doing something that would make you resent her, right?

 

What is her purpose for wanting to go? Does she feel she needs to be there? Does she just want to meet people? Is she hoping that you will become a Christian again eventually?

 

The Christian counseling seems like a bit of a red flag. Have you inquired why she specifically wants "Christian" counseling? I second the advice to try to go for secular counseling. Maybe you could use that as your compromise point, if you go to church with her. However, it probably just depends on the counselor. I would expect most Christian counselors are going to give you advice that is applicable whether or not you are a Christian.

[Mr. Neil]

She is vocal about her faith and tell everyone they need Jesus, but I havent seen her read her bible but a few times in 10 years, while I read my bible ( or related topics) almost every day, and I am the athiest non beleiver!

That's not at all uncommon. Christianity is the one major religion that does not emphasize studying its scriptures, a fact which I think has a lot to do with its success. Most Christians have never looked at a non-English version of the Bible, much less even spoken a word of Hebrew or Greek. They just put all of their faith in the KJV, NIV, or whatever, which is horrible if you think about it. In contrast, there's no way you could be an orthadox Jew and do that. They take their religious study very seriously.

 

If more Christians were encouraged to read the Bible as part of their faith, then I think it would simply fall apart as a religion or at least regress into a very liberal form of theology. A lot of them simply aren't aware that there are satyrs and unicorns in the Bible, or any of the countless silly, silly things that apologists don't want you to know about.

 

You know, if you want your wife to read the Bible, there's a potentially easy way to do it without having her sit down with the book. I saw a commercial for some company that's somehow managed to present the entire Bible on two DVDs. Getting someone to watch a DVD is a lot easier than getting them to read a book.

 

http://www.audiobibles.com/bible-software.asp

 

Wrap it up and give it as a gift! "Happy birthday, honey!"

[Amethyst]

The DVDs are a great idea. Either that, or get her an audiobook. My fundy co-worker listens to the Bible on CDs all the time.

[been borg again]

well I went to a Luthern church this morning,

what a crock of shit.

While the pastor is praiseing the godlyness of Martin Luther, I am tempted to bring a black magic marker next week and plant a square mustash upon Luthers upper lip. and a give a Hiel Hitler salute during Communion

 

I told my wife Martin Luther is responsible for planting the seeds of the Holaucaust. and she told me to stop being so self rightoues. huh?

 

The sermon was pathetic and the sheeple just sit their like bored zombies, with a half hour of the preacher reading aloud the gossip- requests, I mean prayer-requests to God ( why doesnt he just send a fax? Oh ya, the numbers been disconnected and God never returns the phone calls anyway.

 

I guess God forgot to put on his hearing aids this morning, since the pastor decided to turn his back on the congregation and YELL the prayer requests to God for a half hour

 

SO next week is Communion And I must agree to beleive before I can partake of the Communion. A fantastic way of weeding out the heathen who need to be saved, and to maintain control useing conforming social ritual.

My wife wants to be offically confirmed, after her first visit ( she feels Luthern is her roots since her grandma is Luthern) and of course just like I predicted the first time we are there she is best friends with every one and all the men run up to her to introduce themselves, while the woman stay away in jelousy over the attention.. And every one surrounds her holding their nets, ready to catch her the moment she lets her guard down.

 

What a stupid bunch of fukin shit.

 

Sorry to be so cinical. In real life I am a very polite positive nice guy. I am venting, and Its no big deal really.

 

to answer JDROBINS question. The christian marrage couseling is with my older fundy sister, who has this huge influence over my wife.

I accually am supporting this %100 since my sister is on my side on one key issue. that is my sister knows my wife spends way too much money ( the root of our relationship problems). While I cannot approach my wife about this without her becoming irrational and flipping out.

 

 

But I already see alot of problems in that my sister is convinced my wife is bisexual-mostly-gay because we own one lesbian porno tape.

The thing is my wife has always been mostly gay ( unexpereinced)

No big deal really, it comes with its own set of problems where sex can be one-sided many times ( since a penis and balls is "gross" to my wife,

 

Is it a sin not to find a cock and balls sexual?

A great apologetics debate topic for the christian homophobes!),

 

but I can still make my wife orgasm multiple times every time we have sex, so my wife hasnt really pursued her gayness. And I dont really have a problem with it in that I get sexual satisfaction from making my wife feel good.

[MrSpooky]

My wife and I went thru some drama, and now she is manipulating me by saying If I love her , I would go to church

 

Give the uppity woman five across the eyes and tell her to go into the kitchen and MAKE YOU A FUCKING PIE, DAMMIT! You're the man of the house and you're to be obeyed!

 

It's the Christian thing to do, after all.

[been borg again]

spooky,

thats funny, if I was still a christian I probably would do it in Gods name.

But I could not ever do that to her, no matter how frustrated I get ..it would break my heart to do that.

It would be the same as stomping on a cute kitten. I could never live with myself for doing something like that.

[♦ ficino ♦]

well, then how about at least flopping down in front of the TV and turning on the NBA playoffs and yelling, "Hey, bring me a beer!" Or better, bring a bunch of yer buddies and leave pizza stains on the carpet plus cigarette burns and then yell for her to bring beer for everybody.

 

I've got "marital issues" right now, bba, tho we're both gay and our state doesn't have gay marriage. We're each in counseling and thinking of couples counseling. We love each other and have invested a lot in each other and the relationship (put furniture around it big time), but our very different interests, groups of friends, job schedules, etc. do pull us in different directions from each other. At least we have basic agreement on core beliefs and values. I'm not sure how to react to everything you describe about the areas of agreement and difference between the two of you, but it sounds as though they're significant. So I think it's good you're addressing them. especially the financial stuff. If anything, I think marriage has to involve a commonality of material interests.

 

From what you describe, my quick reaction is that God and religion have almost nothing to do with how you'll solve the things "between" the two of you, but just being human and truthful and giving here, saying "I need this" there, has everything to do with them. In my own parents' marriage, when we reached a certain age of awareness, my sister and concluded that my father had used religious/spiritual rationales to justify denying sex to our mother. We used to huddle in a weird fascination of fear wondering why she was weeping "you don't love me anymore," and later we thought back on those days and put two and two together. My father is into yogic asceticism. Anyway, a lot of things like that left me with the opinion that in a marriage, people use religion to justify what they want deep down for emotional reasons, rather than treat each other openly because religion improves their character.

 

I'm thinking maybe you aren't sure you can trust your wife "out on her own" in a church where she's likely to become very popular fast, without your going along sort of to keep an eye on the situation. Is that part of it?

 

bba, you sound like a very reflective guy. From knowing other people on this site so far, I think you'll get a lot of good perspectives. The views won't all be the same, but they'll be seriously meant.

 

chill...

[been borg again]

""I'm thinking maybe you aren't sure you can trust your wife "out on her own" in a church where she's likely to become very popular fast, without your going along sort of to keep an eye on the situation. Is that part of it? """"

 

Kind of, but I have always trusted my wife with other people, in that we married virgins, we are accually very close ( although it may not sound like it) So the guys always pawn over her, wherever she works guys fall in love with her, one dude even commited suicide over it. Because she is gay,no one knows, she has no sexual attraction to men and is clueless as to how much she " leads" guys on. From her point of view she is " one of the guys" with all the dirty jokes and everything else guys talk about whenever the women leave.. and where ever she works she is forced or threaten to file sexual harasment sometimes when things get out of hand.

 

So I dont have mistrust issues in that area at all, I mean she can come and go as she wants and I never obsess over it.

She never has to tell me where she is going or who with fro how long, she will tell me anyways and she has never done anything to break my trust and vice versa, I have never cheated nor had an emotional affair with another woman.

 

 

but I know right now she is looking for "spiritual identity" she is too insecure to handle non-belief. And I am afraid she will start to demonize me, from bad church influence, just like, I think it was NEIL who mentioned that a few posts above this one.

[♦ ficino ♦]

bba, cool. Your wife sounds pretty neat. I think I get more of a sense of how your relationship is from your last message. From my experience, I'm not all that convinced she'll start to demonize you if you don't go along with the Christianity. I do think she'll develop even more areas of interest in her life that would not include you. And it's not just like picking up gardening or stamp collecting -- as you've experienced, the whole fundyish Christian thing is enormously emotional. So I'd be nervous about how much of her energy and interest in life is going to be diverted from you in yet another area, on top of the ones you already mentioned. Becoming bible study partners with, say, some younger, confused, dishy girl who has leanings for other gals... So you'd need to trust her there, too, the way you already do around guys.

 

I'm sure these possibilities are all obvious. The place where I am in my own relationship (sorry for the psychobabble) makes me think maybe you just both need to trust each other and acknowledge each other's separate areas and rely on commitment and always circle back to the core that you have together. That's a risk. Relationships need to be based on more than shared emotion- they need structure that will last over time, and coincidence of interests are a big building block of such structure.

 

But your going to church hypocritically won't work, I don't think, even if it seems it would create structure. You've been through too much to toss it off as going to church for social/family reasons and holding mental reservations about its truth. Especially if that church pushes political positions. Maybe you could manage by just showing up occasionally - I don't know the culture of conservative Lutherans well enough to know what lukewarm husbands can get away with. I sense from you, though, that you value honesty and truth.

 

So maybe on the religion front your bond together will become more mature if each of you acts and professes belief according to conscience, even if that means you stay home and she goes to church.

 

I think the possibilities of the unknown are scary. I feel scared in my own life and relationship this spring, even a while back there feeling it would be so much easier just not to be alive. So it's not easy for me to be sure of opinions about relationships and what will happen if you do X. I guess I'll shut up with the thought to you that, from what I've seen, maturity and considerate truth in how you treat each other is always to the good. If you can both say "I need this, I know you need that, here's mine, I appreciate yours..." well, you know what I'm saying. People's needs change as they change through life. You're not exactly the same people you were when you met. So your wife's spiritual needs and your different ones are real and have their place. My lover is in the midst of very different stuff now than 25 years ago, and I have to help him figure it out and be there for him and be confident to tell him what I need in the process at the same time.

[MrSpooky]

spooky,

thats funny, if I was still a christian I probably would do it in Gods name.

But I could not ever do that to her,  no matter how frustrated I get ..it would break my heart to do that.

It would be the same as stomping on a cute kitten. I could never live with myself for doing something like that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh certainly not. Sorry, I hail from boards where being smarmy is the mode.

[nightflight]

So the guys always pawn over her, wherever she works guys fall in love with her, one dude even commited suicide over it.

 

What kind of people are these? Yikes!

[Fweethawt]

sorry for my poor spelling, yes I know atheist is spelt atheist, not athiest. I type real fats.

What? You got chubby fingers or something?

 

 

Oh, I had to say something about that. I dont' know if you did that on purpose or not.

 

 

[pitchu]

You may have started this thread with one "challenging aspect of marriage" in mind, bba, but it's starting to sound like you've got a big plate of spaghetti to untangle.

[been borg again]

.......You may have started this thread with one "challenging aspect of marriage" in mind, bba, but it's starting to sound like you've got a big plate of spaghetti to untangle.

 

.................

 

I think your right, I am here to vent my anger towards christianity, usually I am at Christian Forums under the name ben borg again or resusablephoenix , And I must be polite at all times or they ban me.

[been borg again]

bba, cool.  Your wife sounds pretty neat.  I think I get more of a sense of how your relationship is from your last message.  From my experience, I'm not all that convinced she'll start to demonize you if you don't go along with the Christianity.  I do think she'll develop even more areas of interest in her life that would not include you.  And it's not just like picking up gardening or stamp collecting -- as you've experienced, the whole fundyish Christian thing is enormously emotional.  So I'd be nervous about how much of her energy and interest in life is going to be diverted from you in yet another area, on top of the ones you already mentioned.  Becoming bible study partners with, say, some younger, confused, dishy girl who has leanings for other gals...  So you'd need to trust her there, too, the way you already do around guys.

 

I'm sure these possibilities are all obvious.  The place where I am in my own relationship (sorry for the psychobabble) makes me think maybe you just both need to trust each other and acknowledge each other's separate areas and rely on commitment and always circle back to the core that you have together. That's a risk.  Relationships need to be based on more than shared emotion- they need structure that will last over time, and coincidence of interests are a big building block of such structure. 

 

But your going to church hypocritically won't work, I don't think, even if it seems it would create structure.  You've been through too much to toss it off as going to church for social/family reasons and holding mental reservations about its truth.  Especially if that church pushes political positions.  Maybe you could manage by just showing up occasionally - I don't know the culture of conservative Lutherans well enough to know what lukewarm husbands can get away with.  I sense from you, though, that you value honesty and truth.

 

So maybe on the religion front your bond together will become more mature if each of you acts and professes belief according to conscience, even if that means you stay home and she goes to church.

 

I think the possibilities of the unknown are scary.  I feel scared in my own life and relationship this spring, even a while back there feeling it would be so much easier just not to be alive.  So it's not easy for me to be sure of opinions about relationships and what will happen if you do X.  I guess I'll shut up with the thought to you that, from what I've seen, maturity and considerate truth in how you treat each other is always to the good.  If you can both say "I need this, I know you need that, here's mine, I appreciate yours..." well, you know what I'm saying.  People's needs change as they change through life.  You're not exactly the same people you were when you met.  So your wife's spiritual needs and your different ones are real and have their place.  My lover is in the midst of very different stuff now than 25 years ago, and I have to help him figure it out and be there for him and be confident to tell him what I need in the process at the same time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

thanks for the kind words, and I think you are right about being honest with my new church family ( UUGH) next week is communion and my wife told me I would be commiting blasphemy if I took communion. So obviously I would be offending her if I tried to stay undercover by taking communion and I know the entire church will know my non beleif if I dont take it. Already they have asked me to go to bible study, maybe I should just be honest and tell them if I am involved in the church it will be from an atheist perspective. Which honestly horrifies me cuz I am the type of person who is introverted and HATES being the center of attention. Maybe I can use this opportunity to come out of my shell and use it for personal growth. but still I can think of no other situation that makes me more nervous than this.

 

I will be totally and completely alone and facing my greatest fear. hopefully I can come out of this situation a Jedi Master or something LOL I dont know.

Or I can do what I always do in life when conflict arises.. run away and withdrawl.

But maybe that would mean I failed and let my weaknessess conquer me once again.

[Flyby Stardancer]

Or you could say that you're there for your wife. And I think you should face your fear.

 

I'm very intraverted myself and have a slight sociophobia. To counter this, I took a job last summer where I would have to meet hundreds of new people every day I worked. I think it helped some with at least learning to cope with my fear and get on with life.

 

Heck, there were days when I'd nearly freeze up on the way from the car to school when I was in middle/high school. It would seriously get that bad. So facing your fears really would help. Good luck!

[DeathWorship]

yes, but you see I have spent the past 3 years mostly at home smoking weed and not making as much money as my wife.. so from that perspective I owe her one.. big time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

CHA-CHING!

[Lilith]

Hey BBA (it's LibertyChic from CF). Very interesting read. How are things going on the church front?

[been borg again]

Hey BBA (it's LibertyChic from CF). Very interesting read. How are things going on the church front?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi LibertyChic! How are you doing?

 

Church is stupid.

the Culture is stupid.

The people are fake, all they do is ask polite small-talk loaded questions to interegate me.

I am conflicted because I know the exact reason why they ask particular idiotic loaded questions, and I know the right answers to give to get them to go away.

I have no desire to get to know these people.

I wish they would just leave me alone.

they talk to me like I am a child.

I am having a really hard time hiding my emotions, my wife says I have a angry scowl all over my face, when I thought I am/was expressionless.

People are starting to notice.

The reverend is a dufus who likes to put on a forced-dramatic show ( badly acted) for his oh so bored congregation.

The Sunday sermons are elementary school level preaching, and the guy talks to us like we are uneducated children.

 

Truly this is hell.

[DaveL]

Hi BBA,

 

I really feel for you man. I was made to go to Church with my old girlfriend. I was a bit lonely at the time, so going to Church was like a tradeoff for the companionship this she bought me.

 

Even though we had alot in common, the whole Church thing was a concession on my part. I felt like I had to go deep into the whole Church thing to fit in with the scene. There were loads hypocrites, in fact shit loads.

 

What occurred was I was no longer myself...in fact I was miserable, never being able to live up to her religious ideals. In the end I didn't agree her ideals at all. eg., I beleived in pro-choice but she didn't etc. The more she criticised me, the harder I tried to fit in.

 

Everyone in my family told me how miserable I was. Secretly they all hated her, but they wanted me to see it for myself. When I finshed my Honours year, she broke it off with me. My family and I were never good enough for her.

 

It took me 18 months to start seeing someone else, but in the end I found a great (atheist) partner and I'm so glad I married her and not the former.

 

I'm sure you care about your wife deeply enough respect her wishes. But you can only ever be true to yourself.

 

If your wife truly loves you for who you are, then she should your respect your wishes not to attend Church. That's the sign of a healthy relationship (I've been through both to know the difference).

 

Regards,

 

Dave

[Lilith]

Hi LibertyChic! How are you doing?

 

Church is stupid.

the Culture is stupid.

The people are fake, all they do is ask polite small-talk loaded questions to  interegate me.

I am conflicted because I know the exact reason why they ask particular  idiotic loaded questions, and I know the  right answers to give to get them to go away.

I have no desire to get to know these people.

I wish they would just leave me alone.

they talk to me like I am a child.

I am having a really hard time hiding my emotions, my wife says I have a angry scowl all over my face, when I thought I am/was expressionless.

People are starting to notice.

The reverend is a dufus who likes to put on a  forced-dramatic show ( badly acted) for his oh so bored  congregation.

The Sunday sermons are elementary school level preaching, and the guy talks to us like we are uneducated children.

 

Truly this is hell.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ugh...I'm so sorry. My dh asked me if I wanted/would go back to church with him. I struggled with this answer for a while and when he pressed me for a response, I finally just shook my head slowly and said, "I don't think I could." He had an obvious look of disappointment on his face and then I said, "It just wouldn't be the same." He didn't respond, but seemed to understand.

 

I don't think I could sit through another child-like sermon. I'm not sure I could sit through a decent sermon. I've heard it all. Heck, I've preached/taught most of it. Do you think you'll keep going? Or are you just gonna explode at one of these poor innocent people one of these days.

 

To answer your question, I'm doing well, thanks for askin' :hug:

[been borg again]

Ugh...I'm so sorry.  My dh asked me if I wanted/would go back to church with him.  I struggled with this answer for a while and when he pressed me for a response, I finally just shook my head slowly and said, "I don't think I could."  He had an obvious look of disappointment on his face and then I said, "It just wouldn't be the same."  He didn't respond, but seemed to understand.

 

I don't think I could sit through another child-like sermon.  I'm not sure I could sit through a decent sermon.  I've heard it all.  Heck, I've preached/taught most of it.  Do you think you'll keep going?  Or are you just gonna explode at one of these poor innocent people one of these days.

 

To answer your question, I'm doing well, thanks for askin'  :hug:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yea I guess we will keep on going till they kick us out.

My wife is getting offically confirmed Luthern. of course the pastor wants us over for dinner.

 

I dont know what to do, what would you do?

 

If I was just myself and said what was on my mind, my sarcasm would get me in trouble. My wife who is super liberal bisexual christian, even she tends to get pissed off when I open my mouth and commit blasphemy in a sarcastic way. sometimes she laughs but then feels dirty afterwards. For some reason I like to make jokes about the most taboo, ugliest things, nobody gets my humour.

 

 

you just joined this place I see?,check out the link to the buttload of articals

[Ouroboros]

Yea I guess we will keep on going till they kick us out.

My wife is getting offically confirmed Luthern. of course the pastor wants us over for dinner.

 

I dont know what to do, what would you do?

 

If I was just myself  and  said what was on my mind, my sarcasm would  get me in trouble. My wife who is super liberal  bisexual christian, even she tends to get pissed off when I open my mouth and commit blasphemy in a sarcastic way. sometimes she laughs but then feels dirty afterwards.  For some reason I like to make jokes about the most taboo, ugliest things, nobody gets my humour.

you just joined this place I see?,check out the link to the buttload of articals

 

It's funny in a way... I didn't dare say anything blasphemous before, but now, cheees, I spread in on thick. I can say the most ugliest things if I'd like, and it won't bother me anymore...

[been borg again]

It's funny in a way... I didn't dare say anything blasphemous before, but now, cheees, I spread in on thick. I can say the most ugliest things if I'd like, and it won't bother me anymore...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yea like the other day, my wife told me about that sad story of the father stabbing those two girls 200 times..

' she said, " I cant imagine somebody would do that to their own child!".

 

the first thing that came out of my mouth was a sarcastic commen,t

" YEA no kidding, been there done that!"

 

My wife didnt speak to me for an hour.

 

Of course a news event like that makes me sick and grosses me out.

 

Today my wife calls up from work wanting to know

the name of that Comedy movie with Andy Dick called " the Jewish Hammer"

 

She asked me if I could rememebr the title of the movie, something with the word " jewish" in it?

 

I said " Wasnt the title "Hitler Was The Jewish Messiah"?

 

she hung up on me.

 

Of course Im not anti jewish. its just my sense of humour to laugh about ugly things