Moral law

[LogicalFallacy]

3 hours ago, bornagainathiest said:

If you are so minded, you can test this for yourself by simply asking her if she is a Seventh day Adventist.  Many of us have asked her that question on many occasions and she has never given an answer.  

 

Yep - pretty sure I asked her this last time she popped in.

 

*Waves* Hi Thumby

 

@Thumbelina

 

Before asserting God's morals are absolute you have to first establish the existence of God.

 

Think you can do that for us?

[Thumbelina]

1 hour ago, florduh said:

Thumbelina!!!

 

It is men who have deemed it morally wrong to hold slaves, kill children, rape the conquered women, burn people alive or deliberately destroy all life on the planet. Of course it's a work in progress, but we're doing a little better. There is no way one can make a case for the Bible God being moral by any standard. At least sane people won't buy the argument. YMMV.

 

Hi Pops!!!  *Christian hug*

Man, human trafficking is at an all time high these days & folk are supposed to be less Neanderthal-ish.

I wish skeptics will stop using God's descriptive writing interchangeably with his prescriptive writings. Some faulty behaviors were/are part of God's permissive will (God meets people where they are at) & not His expressed will. Just like He didn't create Adam with a harem, He didn't create him with slaves. All of that happened because of sin.

[Thumbelina]

1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

I other words, god sends rejects in so that self-righteous hypocrites such as Thumperina can feel better about themselves for being morally superior.  It's right there in the bible verses that she quoted.  Does anybody else need a reason not to trust the bible as a sound moral code?

lol.

[Thumbelina]

1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

I other words, god sends rejects in so that self-righteous hypocrites such as Thumperina can feel better about themselves for being morally superior.  It's right there in the bible verses that she quoted.  Does anybody else need a reason not to trust the bible as a sound moral code?

Man, stop twisting the scripture to your own destruction. You guys are great for lols, you're funny. I really do want you to be saved (not being intrusive, just saying what I feel).

[florduh]

41 minutes ago, Thumbelina said:

All of that happened because of sin.

For the benefit of any lurkers......

 

"Sin," which God himself created as he claims to create ALL things, is the evergreen scapegoat Christians use to excuse God for his reprehensible behavior. It was God who instructed his people on how to deal with their slaves, not an instruction to not have them. It was he who commanded his people to mercilessly wipe out their enemies by killing men, women, children and cattle; of course they were permitted to rape the more comely women. It was God, having all power and knowing the future, who could find no other solution for the "sin" his flawed creation embraced than to kill by drowning every man, woman, child, puppy and kitten.

 

No, according to the Bible story God does some horrific things that only the worst madman could conceive. Blaming his creation for all evil, of which he clearly says he himself created, does not fly with those of sound mind.

[Astreja]

3 hours ago, Thumbelina said:

Man, stop twisting the scripture to your own destruction.

 

Shouldn't that be "twisting the scripture to the scripture's destruction"?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

6 hours ago, Thumbelina said:

Man, stop twisting the scripture to your own destruction. You guys are great for lols, you're funny. I really do want you to be saved (not being intrusive, just saying what I feel).

Here we see, firsthand, the moral superiority of the christian mentality.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

7 hours ago, Thumbelina said:

 

Man, human trafficking is at an all time high these days & folk are supposed to be less Neanderthal-ish.  god is supposed to have a plan for everybody.

 

There.  Fixed that for you.

[bornagainathiest]

8 hours ago, Thumbelina said:

Man, stop twisting the scripture to your own destruction. You guys are great for lols, you're funny. I really do want you to be saved (not being intrusive, just saying what I feel).

 

If you really do want us to be saved, then please start by giving truthful answers to our questions.

 

Question:   Are you a Seventh Day Adventist, Thumbelina?

[midniterider]

Twisted Scripture: Sounds like a semi-transvestite metal band.

[midniterider]

21 hours ago, Thumbelina said:

 

Hi Pops!!!  *Christian hug*

Man, human trafficking is at an all time high these days & folk are supposed to be less Neanderthal-ish.

I wish skeptics will stop using God's descriptive writing interchangeably with his prescriptive writings. Some faulty behaviors were/are part of God's permissive will (God meets people where they are at) & not His expressed will. Just like He didn't create Adam with a harem, He didn't create him with slaves. All of that happened because of sin.

 

If a designer creates a lousy product is it the designer's fault? Or the product's fault? On a larger scale, if an omniscient designer creates a product that performs poorly, why would the designer shift blame to the product? Why doesn't the designer accept responsibility? And if the omniscient designer knowingly creates a lousy product, he cannot blame the product for it's lousiness. If the designer blames the product then he has no integrity.

 

Say a woman drinks heavily then decides to get pregnant. She knows that alcohol could cause fetal alcohol syndrome in her child but does it anyway. So whose fault is it when the child grows up with cognitive problems and learning issues? If this were bible scripture then obviously the child would be at fault. Sure as heck wasn't mom's fault for drinking.

 

What if some guy pulled out a gun and shot someone. When the suspect is taken down by the cops, the shooter calmly says, "Hey, it's not my fault. The victim should have jumped out of the way. Or should have been wearing a bulleproof vest. It certainly isn't my fault that my bullet killed him."

 

Heathen hugs to you Thumbelina. I expect a snappy response 3 months from now. haha

[Thumbelina]

23 hours ago, florduh said:

For the benefit of any lurkers......

 

"Sin," which God himself created as he claims to create ALL things, is the evergreen scapegoat Christians use to excuse God for his reprehensible behavior. It was God who instructed his people on how to deal with their slaves, not an instruction to not have them. It was he who commanded his people to mercilessly wipe out their enemies by killing men, women, children and cattle; of course they were permitted to rape the more comely women. It was God, having all power and knowing the future, who could find no other solution for the "sin" his flawed creation embraced than to kill by drowning every man, woman, child, puppy and kitten.

 

No, according to the Bible story God does some horrific things that only the worst madman could conceive. Blaming his creation for all evil, of which he clearly says he himself created, does not fly with those of sound mind.

For the benefit of WHOMEVER wants to know:

 

An innately holy God cannot sin, Pops.:

https://www.gotquestions.org/can-God-sin.html

 

Every good & perfect gift comes from God. Anything that deviates from that is part of the curse; the curse, because of sin/transgressing God's moral law, is deserved (Proverbs 26:2).

Are you saying that love should not involve justice? Are you saying that wrong CHOICES should not be punished?

God's instructions to deal with slaves as in Exodus 23:9, you mean? Skeptics tend  to picture the slavery that God mentioned in His instructions as if it was like the Middle Passage or something. No, it wasn't. Unfortunately it was a part of the culture just like polygamy was. Didn't some of God's people get caught up in polygamy? Yes ... & it messed up their homes! Was that God's ideal? Was that His ORIGINAL plan? Graceful God worked with them, even if it meant He had to let them learn moral lessons the hard way.

Also, I would like to ask, is it better to save some people than to save no people? Should humans have a crab-in-a-barrel mentality (look up crabs in a barrel on YouTube)?

 

 

 

[Thumbelina]

20 hours ago, Astreja said:

 

Shouldn't that be "twisting the scripture to the scripture's destruction"?

It's the feisty lioness that I remember Hi!!!

 

[Thumbelina]

18 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Here we see, firsthand, the moral superiority of the christian mentality.

Man, stop it! I am a sinner just like you & any other human. Neither I, nor anyone else can boast. The only difference is that I'm saved by grace; Christ's righteousness has been imputed to me because I accepted it.

[Thumbelina]

16 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

There.  Fixed that for you.

He did. John 3:16. He made the provision for all but not all will choose to accept said provision. God became a man to identify with us, He suffered too but His physical suffering was momentary compared with eternity. I reckon God's emotional pain would be worse & longer than any created beings' (the redeemed will forget about pain & suffering but God won't).

[florduh]

7 minutes ago, Thumbelina said:

An innately holy God cannot sin, Pops.

This is why I directed my reply to lurkers as it is pointless to discuss the topic with a closed and indoctrinated mind.

 

If you want to get technical, nowhere did I say God sinned. By definition he can't sin, but he can do some unthinkable horrors we just can't label as sin. Remember, sin is a theological term, not a real thing.  

 

 

[Thumbelina]

@ Florduh

Your dispute is with God creating "evil" as in calamity, right?

Let me ask, is it better to break your leg than it is to have your head severed?

[florduh]

So from where do you get your dogma, Thumby? What preachers or authors formed your views? Do you have a denominational affiliation?

 

 

[LogicalFallacy]

On ‎26‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 11:30 AM, LogicalFallacy said:

 

@Thumbelina

 

Before asserting God's morals are absolute you have to first establish the existence of God.

 

Think you can do that for us?

 

In fact before asserting anything "god" like @Thumbelina has done multiple times in this thread, can she first establish the current existence of HER particular God?

 

If she cannot do that then all her assertions of what God can and cannot do, any attributes credited to, or actions done by her God are just meaningless unsubstantiated fluff.

 

She might as well say the "Invisible Pink Unicorn" (IPU) instead of "god"... lets try it and see if the assertions make as much sense:

 

An innately holy God   IPU cannot sin, Pops.:

 

Every good & perfect gift comes from God  IPU. Anything that deviates from that is part of the curse; the curse, because of sin/transgressing God's  IPU's moral law, is deserved (Horsing Around 5:23).

 

"He did. Horsing Tails 3:16. He made the provision for all but not all will choose to accept said provision. God   IPU became a man to identify with us, He suffered too but His physical suffering was momentary compared with eternity. I reckon God's IPU's emotional pain would be worse & longer than any created beings' (the redeemed will forget about pain & suffering but God IPU won't).

 

 

[Thumbelina]

3 hours ago, midniterider said:

 

If a designer creates a lousy product is it the designer's fault? Or the product's fault? On a larger scale, if an omniscient designer creates a product that performs poorly, why would the designer shift blame to the product? Why doesn't the designer accept responsibility? And if the omniscient designer knowingly creates a lousy product, he cannot blame the product for it's lousiness. If the designer blames the product then he has no integrity.

 

Say a woman drinks heavily then decides to get pregnant. She knows that alcohol could cause fetal alcohol syndrome in her child but does it anyway. So whose fault is it when the child grows up with cognitive problems and learning issues? If this were bible scripture then obviously the child would be at fault. Sure as heck wasn't mom's fault for drinking.

 

What if some guy pulled out a gun and shot someone. When the suspect is taken down by the cops, the shooter calmly says, "Hey, it's not my fault. The victim should have jumped out of the way. Or should have been wearing a bulleproof vest. It certainly isn't my fault that my bullet killed him."

 

Heathen hugs to you Thumbelina. I expect a snappy response 3 months from now. haha

 

 

 

All God created was good, good & very good. Now, if He only made machines & other objects that had no will then He would not have had rebellion. He chose to create beings who, like Him, has volition. Since creatures with volition cannot decide to create themselves, they were granted a choice, to keep existing or not. Who wants to stay in love relationship where there's no reciprocity? Certainly not God! Maybe needy creations would, but not Him.

 

Which upstanding teetotaler mother, who raised her son right, & he turned out to be a raging drunk, should be told: why did you give birth to that?!!!!

 

About the shooting, the law says don't murder ( you didn't specify if he shot someone in self defense; not all killing is murder but all murder is killing). The shooter had a choice, to shoot or not. God exalts His Word/law more than His name/title. His law shows His character.

 

If you want you can answer some of the questions I asked in my response to Florduh.

 

"Heathen hugs to you Thumbelina. I expect a snappy response 3 months from now. haha"

 

Heathen hugs? What's that? Do I have to give it the side eye?

[Thumbelina]

I believe the bible & I'm hoping that some lions would reason with me based on scripture. The questions I posed are some food for thought for those who tend to criticize the bible & the God of said bible.

[LogicalFallacy]

4 minutes ago, Thumbelina said:

I believe the bible & I'm hoping that some lions would reason with me based on scripture. The questions I posed are some food for thought for those who tend to criticize the bible & the God of said bible.

 

It would help if you could establish the existence of said god.... like I have asked twice...

.

.

.

All we are getting from you is baseless proselytising.

.

.

.

"reason"... "scripture"

 

Heard of irony?

[Astreja]

1 hour ago, Thumbelina said:

It's the feisty lioness that I remember Hi!!!

 

 

*waves back* Hæ!

[bornagainathiest]

3 hours ago, Thumbelina said:

I believe the bible & I'm hoping that some lions would reason with me based on scripture. The questions I posed are some food for thought for those who tend to criticize the bible & the God of said bible.

 

We Lions won't do that, Thumbelina.

 

For two reasons.

First, we prize honesty, integrity and truthfulness above all else.  So when you dodged Florduh's questions ( So from where do you get your dogma, Thumby? What preachers or authors formed your views? Do you have a denominational affiliation? ) once again you've confirmed to us that we are not dealing with an honest and open person.  Instead we find you to be a secretive and dishonest person.

 

Secondly, we do not agree to your terms.

You would have us accept scripture as true and then reason with you on that basis.  Forcing us to meet you on your terms confirms to us that you are manipulative and controlling.  Since you are confined to the Den, I'll remind you of our little saying about this place.  "Our playground, our rules."  Not yours.

 

If you want to reason with us about scripture, first be honest with us and openly declare your denominational affiliation.  

Then, provide evidence for the truth of scripture so that any discussion about it can take place on the basis of that evidence and not on the basis of faith.

 

BAA.

 

 

 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

7 hours ago, Thumbelina said:

Man, stop it! I am a sinner just like you & any other human. Neither I, nor anyone else can boast. The only difference is that I'm saved by grace; Christ's righteousness has been imputed to me because I accepted it.

And here we see false humility super-imposed onto moral superiority.  Thumperina really is a perfect example of christian "virtue".