Should We Expect a Higher Consciousness

[sdelsolray]

3 hours ago, end3 said:

 

 

Nevermind...

[Guest end3]

15 minutes ago, sdelsolray said:

 

Nevermind...

It's the last statement isn't it.  I kind of liked the logic myself.  Sometimes I surprise myself, my mental wackiness.

[disillusioned]

7 hours ago, end3 said:

In my mind I'm thinking about a larger consciousness, the consciousness of a larger organization that's capable of producing consciousness....i.e., does the universe possess a consciousness.  For example, a human consciousness appears limited more to immediate environment and certainly to the organization producing said consciousness....while some people claim that their connection is a bit greater,  to the whole of nature or to departed souls.....a oneness or awareness to a larger organization.

 

So by higher, I am meaning larger and possibly more complex. 

 

I think we should expect something larger.  We seem to have different levels right here before us as examples.  A plant seems connected but is it aware.  Animals seem aware, but to what level.  Humans seem aware and sometimes more connected.    Idk, maybe different organizations and complexities define different consciousness.

 

One would speculate there is nothing more given we understand the building blocks of the organizations. 

 

But Florduh, the point is brother, we don't.  Toe on that you old fart.

 

 

Ok, maybe there's a "higher" consciousness then, on this kind of view. Maybe. But should we expect that there is one? Still not sure we should expect anything,  really. 

[Margee]

On 8/11/2018 at 4:21 PM, midniterider said:

Maybe nobody has consciousness.

This could be a very good point. Look at all the different colonies of animals on the earth? Maybe they think they "know" more than us? Maybe we are doing the exact same thing as the ants? We're just another type of animal.  But somehow we "think" we are smarter. Maybe we all, (living things) work by instinct? 

[duderonomy]

Does anyone else that's read this far wonder if End3 is employing some kind of Bullshit Generator like this one?  http://sebpearce.com/bullshit/

[JenniferG]

12 hours ago, florduh said:

Reading comprehension. Look into it, m'kay?

 

And it's "toe" the line.

 

Toe the line as in drawing a line in the sand with your toe, I presume. Must Google it to confirm.

[Guest end3]

44 minutes ago, duderonomy said:

Does anyone else that's read this far wonder if End3 is employing some kind of Bullshit Generator like this one?  http://sebpearce.com/bullshit/

It’s like windshield time Dude... I feed these analytical instruments all day long and wait 10 to 15 minutes between runs.  Lots of time to contemplate bs.  And we must admit, ExC is waning...  Just trying to stir the pot as there is nothing new on either side of the fence.  So I’m asking new questions.  And you can thank Antlerman for some of the phraseology...”God unfolding, manifestation”...

[duderonomy]

1 hour ago, end3 said:

It’s like windshield time Dude... I feed these analytical instruments all day long and wait 10 to 15 minutes between runs.  Lots of time to contemplate bs.  And we must admit, ExC is waning...  Just trying to stir the pot as there is nothing new on either side of the fence.  So I’m asking new questions.  And you can thank Antlerman for some of the phraseology...”God unfolding, manifestation”...

 

Ex-C is waning?  How so?  And if so, why are you as a Christian trying to save it?  You don't need to answer any of that of course, and it's a bit off topic.  

 

  

[Realist]

6 hours ago, Margee said:

This could be  a very good point. Look at all the different  colonies  of animals on the earth? Maybe they think  they "know" more than us? Maybe we are doing the exact same thing as the ants? We're  just another type of animal.  But somehow we "think" we are smarter. May we all (living things) work by instinct? 

Margee ... we are just an ant with a bigger brain that allows us to make up special "human"  positions of extra self importance! That same smart brain that devises and makes humans in many cases the sole benefactors from all sorts of religions; that makes mankind not able to exist without wars and killing each other; that causes racism; discrimination etc etc.

I feel it is not hard to work out where mankind's "special level" of consciousness has actually come from! Self importance and inability to acknowledge we are just ANOTHER animal!

[Margee]

I know that this is a circular discussion and I cannot deny that for 9 years on this site that I have been (deep down inside me) wishing for some real proof about where conciousness comes from. FFS, you would think in this age of intelligence that a 100% answer would be available instead of all these "theories". Does anyone know if anyone has an answer? What caused the big bang? Is Richard Dawkins the one with the answer? And why did we evolve  to have a concious brain to know that we are going to die at some point? The animals don't have to "worry" about this, do they? So why us? Why in 2018 can't someone give us an intelligent 100% conclusion? If evolution is  a 100% correct, then why can't someone come on the radio, TV, or social media, make the announcement and shut the whole religious  communities down?? Grrrrrr. ..I find it so frustrating! ! I guess I'm still a bit agnostic .  .. 

[florduh]

3 hours ago, Margee said:

If evolution is  a 100% correct, then why can't someone come on the radio, TV, or social media, make the announcement and shut the whole religious  communities down??

The announcement has been made many times. The evidence is overwhelming and some people still deny it. It's like many other scientific facts that are ignored in favor of religious belief or vested interest of some other kind. See: Flat Earth. See: Birtherism. See: Global Warming is a Hoax. See: Vaccinations Cause Autism.

[Guest end3]

58 minutes ago, florduh said:

The announcement has been made many times. The evidence is overwhelming and some people still deny it. It's like many other scientific facts that are ignored in favor of religious belief or vested interest of some other kind. See: Flat Earth. See: Birtherism. See: Global Warming is a Hoax. See: Vaccinations Cause Autism.

So you think the term consciousness needs revision.  And if so, you would like to take a stab at it?

[Guest end3]

So Chris, you think "woo" is actually the lack of predictability of evolution......that the variables are too great to predict the changes we see in individuals at any given time....hence the "woo" factor?

[florduh]

1 hour ago, end3 said:

So you think the term consciousness needs revision.  And if so, you would like to take a stab at it?

You're losing me. We went from evidence of evolutionary process to defining consciousness. Okay. Consciousness has been adequately defined as far as I can tell. Consciousness is awareness. Anything that reacts to its environment is obviously aware of it. That would include just about everything from plants seeking sunlight to chameleons changing color to humans doing what they do. Consciousness becomes more complex by definition as we go to the "higher" life forms. It is an arbitrary distinction the same as birds thinking themselves superior because they can fly or fish claiming the title because they are at home in 70% of the planet's environment. We, as humans, are not only aware and able to perceive our surroundings but we can think about it, remember it and project future scenarios. Yes, our brains are more complex. Am I missing something?

[florduh]

1 hour ago, end3 said:

So Chris, you think "woo" is actually the lack of predictability of evolution......that the variables are too great to predict the changes we see in individuals at any given time....hence the "woo" factor?

Again, I don't know where you're trying to go here. My previous reference to "woo" was regarding the comparing and contrasting of religion with spirituality. I meant that though I'm not inclined to "woo" I can see how religion, Christianity in particular, is rather far removed from what most of the world considers "spiritual." 

[Realist]

1 hour ago, florduh said:

You're losing me. We went from evidence of evolutionary process to defining consciousness. Okay. Consciousness has been adequately defined as far as I can tell. Consciousness is awareness. Anything that reacts to its environment is obviously aware of it. That would include just about everything from plants seeking sunlight to chameleons changing color to humans doing what they do. Consciousness becomes more complex by definition as we go to the "higher" life forms. It is an arbitrary distinction the same as birds thinking themselves superior because they can fly or fish claiming the title because they are at home in 70% of the planet's environment. We, as humans, are not only aware and able to perceive our surroundings but we can think about it, remember it and project future scenarios. Yes, our brains are more complex. Am I missing something?

... I think you nailed it here Florduh ... once brain function ceases ... so does consciousness ... "game, set and match" .... as much as we might like to think otherwise!

[duderonomy]

10 hours ago, florduh said:

The announcement has been made many times. The evidence is overwhelming and some people still deny it. It's like many other scientific facts that are ignored in favor of religious belief or vested interest of some other kind. See: Flat Earth. See: Birtherism. See: Global Warming is a Hoax. See: Vaccinations Cause Autism.

 

So religionists aren't the only ones with dogmatic thought. Interesting. I never thought of the "Birtherism" thing in terms of it being "scientific fact".

 

Also, "scientific fact". 

 

Plus, I really miss BAA here lately.  I'm conscious of that. 

[midniterider]

I've never seen anyone's consciousness, just the evidence that they probably are (e.g. walking, talking, creating something new).

 

I wouldn't want to confuse walking and talking, or outward behavior in general with inner self-awareness, though. People can enter a relaxed state where they are not walking or talking or even aware of the body's senses. Are they dead? No. Are they conscious? Yes. Does consciousness require a physical body? If your view is that all things real must be physical matter, then yes. If not, then consciousness could be independent of physical matter.

 

When someone's body dies, obviously there is no more physical function. But I am unable to conclude one way or the other that someone's consciousness died with it. To me, that's an assumption.

 

I'm agnostic, so I'll take some physical science here and some woo there. I'm not woo averse, just Christianity averse.

 

Anyway, thanks for reading more of my drivel.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

End3, I think the word you're looking for is "church".

[MOHO]

"...On your deathbed you will receive total consciousness.

So at least I got THAT going for me!"

 

   - Bill Murray, CaddyShack.

[Heimir]

Well, I can be short and brief.

I have no idea! I see no proof of extraterrestrials, gods, spirits, or any of the other usual suspects that may possess 'higher consciousness'. Therefore, I do not believe it.

 

You see people believing in all sorts of strange beings for the reason that they 'feel' like these exist, or that they have had an 'experience'. Therefore, this is not an argument for me. Apparently the human brain can produce a broad range of emotional and mental phenomena and people are easily fooled to believe that these experiences must be related to the religion they happened to belong to.

[Margee]

Good grief! What am I doing in the lion's Den?? It's my first pleasurable visit here. I like this topic. And nobody's really fighting?? What's up with that? LOl 

 

I just like the comments and find them all really interesting. I had a couple of OBE's and I tell you, it's a real spooky feeling to think that your own 'consciousness' can get out of your body and walk alongside you!! I had this happen. And no I wasn't drinking or toking. My body was walking and my 'soul' was walking with me. Too hard to explain. I'm a little crazy anyway. I admit it.  

[duderonomy]

22 minutes ago, Margee said:

Good grief! What am I doing in the lion's Den?? It's my first pleasurable visit here. I like this topic. And nobody's really fighting?? What's up with that? LOl 

 

I just like the comments and find them all really interesting. I had a couple of OBE's and I tell you, it's a real spooky feeling to think that your own 'consciousness' can get out of your body and walk alongside you!! I had this happen. And no I wasn't drinking or toking. My body was walking and my 'soul' was walking with me. Too hard to explain. I'm a little crazy anyway. I admit it.  

 

Were you upset at the time that happened?  Because it sounds like you were really beside yourself.    

[Joshpantera]

3 hours ago, Heimir said:

Well, I can be short and brief.

I have no idea! I see no proof of extraterrestrials, gods, spirits, or any of the other usual suspects that may possess 'higher consciousness'. Therefore, I do not believe it.

 

You see people believing in all sorts of strange beings for the reason that they 'feel' like these exist, or that they have had an 'experience'. Therefore, this is not an argument for me. Apparently the human brain can produce a broad range of emotional and mental phenomena and people are easily fooled to believe that these experiences must be related to the religion they happened to belong to.

 

That's it. Regardless of whether or not some experience even relates to someone's personal religion, they will often try and shoe horn it somehow. I guess they just don't know how else to interpret the experience. We had that issue the other week where someone was talking about ghosts or something as if it proves the bible, when ghosts are more contrary to the bible than anything else. Something unknown or unexplained = bible true. Except more often than not, these unexplained issues run contrary to the bible rather than bolster it. 

[Guest end3]

A couple things....on one hand I can see an explanation for "souls" or personalities in the sheer number of variables affecting the body,  internally and externally.  We are not the same at any point and will never be.....hence the differences. 

 

On another hand, I'm kinda like Margee.  I have a difficult time dismissing what I see and have experienced...particularly the lady on the Long Island Medium. 

 

Lastly, there are several religions, if I'm not in error, that claim a consciousness or potential consciousness with something larger. 

 

I'm with Donnie Baker....hard to dismiss ESPN...