Are "pro-life" christians short-sighted?

[Miriam]

4 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said:

The problem with this line of thinking is it's presupposing that the contents of the bible are true.

That's right!  

 

TS - sorry, who appeared in the old testament but now is nowhere to be found?

[LogicalFallacy]

On 12/26/2018 at 4:39 PM, Aries256 said:

Actually no on the very rare occasion, and I cannot believe Im saying this. I agree. Abortion is murder. 

 

Playing devils advocate here:

 

1) Do you agree that humans are merely part of the animal kingdom and are not special?

 

If yes:  2) Do you agree its ok to kill other species, including those who are pregnant?

 

If yes: 3) Why then the distinction between other animals and humans?

 

I have my own distinction here but interested in someone else's answer.

 

If no at any point, what is your reasoning?

 

(PS anyone else feel free to go through the thought experiment)

[LogicalFallacy]

6 minutes ago, Miriam said:

That's right!  

 

TS - sorry, who appeared in the old testament but now is nowhere to be found?

 

Miriam, I should have said Hi, and welcome first.

 

Hi, welcome to Ex-C

 

Why would you presuppose anything to be true?

 

 

(PS - I think TS is referring to God. Signs, wonders, burning bushes etc, God's son rising.... then silence for 2000 years. If you draw a scale of 'God events' on a timeline there is a huge flurry for about 1,000 years from 1000BC to 33AD... then nothing. And nothing for the 97,000 years of humans before that, and nothing for the 4.2 billion years before that, and nothing for the 9.6  billion years before that. What's going on here?)

[TheRedneckProfessor]

3 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

Playing devils advocate here:

 

1) Do you agree that humans are merely part of the animal kingdom and are not special?

 

If yes:  2) Do you agree its ok to kill other species, including those who are pregnant?

 

If yes: 3) Why then the distinction between other animals and humans?

 

I have my own distinction here but interested in someone else's answer.

 

If no at any point, what is your reasoning?

 

(PS anyone else feel free to go through the thought experiment)

I have my own reasons for being against abortion; but also in favor of a woman's right to decide what to do with her own body.  That's a subject for another thread at another time, though.  Yours might be, too.

[Miriam]

I really like that, LF! Very true, if humans are just animals, we should be vegetarians or think that cannibalism is acceptable, and as you say, what would be the difference between abortion and terminating the pregnancies of animals?

 

I know you don't like the concept that humans are made in the image of God and therefore different, but it plays an important part in society. It is what underpins the notion that all humans deserve dignity, and was the idea that abolished slavery in England and America, that all humans are equal in the eyes of God.

[LogicalFallacy]

Just now, TheRedneckProfessor said:

I have my own reasons for being against abortion; but also in favor of a woman's right to decide what to do with her own body.  That's a subject for another thread at another time, though.  Yours might be, too.

Good point.

[LogicalFallacy]

Just now, Miriam said:

I really like that, LF! Very true, if humans are just animals, we should be vegetarians or think that cannibalism is acceptable, and as you say, what would be the difference between abortion and terminating the pregnancies of animals?

 

I didn't make any statement of truth, nor did I put forth any of my opinion on abortion. I merely asked some hard questions.

 

Just now, Miriam said:

 

I know you don't like the concept that humans are made in the image of God and therefore different, but it plays an important part in society. It is what underpins the notion that all humans deserve dignity, and was the idea that abolished slavery in England and America, that all humans are equal in the eyes of God.

 

You "know" this? How? I don't recall specifically telling you that I don't like the concept of humans made in Gods image. In fact I haven't really thought about it. I think, based on all my research, all Gods are made in human images.

 

However this thread is about pro-life Christians. Would you like me to start a topic for you to put forward and defend your arguments for God, and I (we) can put forth our reasons as to why we don't accept any gods exist?

[Miriam]

1 minute ago, LogicalFallacy said:

(PS - I think TS is referring to God. Signs, wonders, burning bushes etc, God's son rising.... then silence for 2000 years. If you draw a scale of 'God events' on a timeline there is a huge flurry for about 1,000 years from 1000BC to 33AD... then nothing. And nothing for the 97,000 years of humans before that, and nothing for the 4.2 billion years before that, and nothing for the 9.6  billion years before that. What's going on here?)

Hi there! Very nice to meet you, thanks for the welcome. And thanks for clearing that up - God revealed himself through signs, wonders and the prophets to the Jews, pointing to the time when he would be revealed in flesh. That's Jesus. We now have the Holy Spirit to convict us, and have had God revealed in flesh. Why would you ask for another sign - isn't that enough?

 

The billions of years before anything, that's in Genesis. God made the heavens, then the Earth. It says in 7 days, but an eternal God has a different concept of time - it says in the bible in 2 Peter 3:8 that to God "one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years is like a day."

 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

1 minute ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

I didn't make any statement of truth, nor did I put forth any of my opinion on abortion. I merely asked some hard questions.

 

 

You "know" this? How? I don't recall specifically telling you that I don't like the concept of humans made in Gods image. In fact I haven't really thought about it. I think, based on all my research, all Gods are made in human images.

You're not suggesting that @Miriam is misrepresenting your position, are you?  She'd never do that!  She's a christian for christ's sake,  honest and true.

[Miriam]

1 minute ago, LogicalFallacy said:

You "know" this? How? I don't recall specifically telling you that I don't like the concept of humans made in Gods image. In fact I haven't really thought about it. I think, based on all my research, all Gods are made in human images.

True - you yourself haven't said this, but the general reaction to God having anything to do with humans on this forum made me want to say that before people objected.

 

2 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said:

I didn't make any statement of truth, nor did I put forth any of my opinion on abortion. I merely asked some hard questions.

Don't worry - I was just liking the argument, not saying this is your opinion  

 

I know, things tend to shift a lot from the original topic. Gets confusing. I'm just responding to what's said.

[Miriam]

Just now, TheRedneckProfessor said:

She'd never do that!  She's a christian for christ's sake,  honest and true.

 

Since you'd never mis-represent me - thank you, RedNeck  

[TheRedneckProfessor]

1 minute ago, Miriam said:

 

Since you'd never mis-represent me - thank you, RedNeck  

You're quite welcome.

[Miriam]

3 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

You're quite welcome.

Good - then we can be a bit friendlier now?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

2 minutes ago, Miriam said:

Good - then we can be a bit friendlier now?

Why?

[Miriam]

Why not?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

19 minutes ago, Miriam said:

Why not?

Because i find it difficult to be friendly with people who continue to lie once I've called them out a time or six.

[Miriam]

If we're being honest, I find it difficult to deal with blatant double standards.  I don't want to fight.  

[sdelsolray]

Basic Miriam Casserole

 

2 lbs well seasoned Christian religious indoctrination (choose one among the various sects)

1 lb historical and current peer pressure to maintain that indoctrination

8 oz dogmatic apologetics (must conform with the chosen Christian sect)

4 oz mere assertion fallacies

2 oz projection 

2 oz lack of curiosity

2 oz lack of skepticism

6 oz of avoidance of contrary facts

 

Mix well and place in a baking dish.  Sprinkle with liberal amounts of wishful thinking.  Bake at 350 for one hour.  Serves one.

[Miriam]

I have answered everything you've said. I haven't really had the chance to ask many questions, I've been just answering you.  It seems you are allowed to accuse me, make assumptions about me based on what I've said, demand respect, and plain insult me and I can't do the same back.  Before all this, I went through a lot of old posts and it seems you always behave this way. Not a great way to get me to see what you think, or to convince anyone you're right. I'm prepared to start over. Are you?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

12 minutes ago, Miriam said:

I have answered everything you've said. I haven't really had the chance to ask many questions, I've been just answering you.  It seems you are allowed to accuse me, make assumptions about me based on what I've said, demand respect, and plain insult me and I can't do the same back.  Before all this, I went through a lot of old posts and it seems you always behave this way. Not a great way to get me to see what you think, or to convince anyone you're right. I'm prepared to start over. Are you?

If you genuinely had gone through our old posts and determined we always behave this way, you would not have subjected yourself to our forums.  Unless you thought yourself strong enough to do so, in which case, you were lying to yourself; or, you didn't actually read any old posts, in which case, you're lying to us. 

 

Of course, there are other possibilities.  Perhaps you did read our posts and trusted that god (or Vijay) would give you the strength and wisdom to come against us.  How's that working out for you?  Did the lord lead you to lie?  Was misrepresentation Vijay's idea?

 

Don't whine when you came into our house acting like a petulant child and got yourself smacked down.  That's just how life works.

[midniterider]

On 12/26/2018 at 9:34 AM, Miriam said:

I am pro-life, just to state my view: the bible says that we are known at conception, you may be familiar with the verse that goes, "For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb...Your eyes saw my unformed body..." so a fetus is still made in the image of God, and while may not by modern scientific definition be a life, if you terminate that life before it can grow into the person it will be, that is you having the power of life and death and choosing death for someone else. I am very pro contraception, though!

 

And as for killing someone so they can get into heaven, "shall we do evil so that good shall come of it?" that idea itself is literally mocked in the bible.

 

Miriam

 

Do you believe in the death penalty?

 

[Miriam]

midniterider - no, I don't.

 

Now, this is silly. This is not the way forward, I never intended to "come against you." I will ask a question, in the appropriate forum, and the less noisy people on this forum who actually would like to help can answer. 

[midniterider]

5 hours ago, Miriam said:

If God cared nothing for human life, he wouldn't have sent Jesus in the first place. Love your neighbour as yourself would not be the great and second commandment. We wouldn't be told not to murder, or steal. There would be no rules at all, if God didn't care, why try and speak at all? 

 

The Great Flood is a wonderful way to show love for his creation.

Commanding Abraham to kill Isaac then saying, "Just kidding" before he does it.

Giving Satan the green light to wreck Job's life.

 

Isn't God a great guy?

[Miriam]

Rants forum, please

[midniterider]

Whatever pro-Jesus stuff you post will probably end up going to the Lion's Den subforum. That's where Christians are allowed to preach to us and try to get us Ex-Christians to try to think like them again.

 

If you are interested in deconverting then I suppose the other forums may be helpful. What makes you come and visit us?