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Myrkhoos

Would like to believe but just cannot

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Hello,

 

I am having this pulsating feelings of going back to it all, missionary, hardocre, spirituality style, but it is not of conviction, or new found wisdom, I think. Mostly because of longing for lost time and effort and pain and force of habit, mental and emotional.

 

Bu I would like to believe it all. Sometimes. Would like the Bible not to be so inconsistent and the God image to be more coherent. Would like the community not to seem so brainwashed all the time. Would like it , actually, not to believe, but it to be different. Not for God to create beings and test them, which only now I see and feel it is so twisted. Would like to not feel the threat of eternal torment if I do not do what he says, even if if I have no power to do it myself.

 

Would like to be able to understand it all, and not be created not being able to.

 

Would like to feel real compassion, not just tha trials and pains are somehow a sign of his love, which again seems twisted.

 

Would like not to feel rage and sickness to myself at any kind of praise to some kind of person, in religion and not only.

 

Would like to be helped when I am in my worst state, mentally and materially and not be agressed and bullied for it.

 

Would like not to participate in the ritual symbolic cannibalism of lithurgy.

 

Would like to have freedom, not just to obey parents, priests and leaders and be scared shitless if I do not.

 

Would like to feel empathy and safety, not domination and constant anxiety.

 

Would like not having to forcefully brainwash myself.

 

But I cannot. It is just too vile and putrid, it seems that way. I cannot. Something in me cannot, would prefer torture, than this. 

 

I cannot accept contradictions as always sign of superior intelligence

 

I cannot keep finding and seeing patterns in my head that I have no proof they are there or not. Like if I replace God with the tooth fairy, and the pattern would still work.

 

I cannot be naive, trusting. I have been harmed, psychologically to the point of severe breakdown and witness this continually happening.

 

I cannot just think of an afterlife , and fantasize about it when all things will be right. That does not make feel better, it makes me feel worse, as why in an uncertain future and not now? 

 

The image of God I have been presented with is absurd, pathological, and unprovable. An amalgam of different ideas and projection. While I do not deny some kind of reality of being, which I am not aware of, and I am trying to be honest and say , yes, I am full of bias and lack, what I am aware of makes me extremely skeptical of the Christian God claim.

 

And, the first claim I have is this, the apostles believed, from the official gospels, after seeing countless wonders, from manipulation of the elements, to curing of thousands, to bringing back the dead, and countless sermons and explanations of the truths, gradually building up their understanding. I have yet to see such a preacher, although it was promised that those who believed in him would do the same, even greater.

 

I do not believe, but I am open and investigating and trying to make sense of my experiences. 

 

 

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Hey @Myrkhoos,

 

Sorry you're felling icky.

We've all been there.

 

You are going through the struggle that, unfortunately, is just part of eschewing mind-control. Brain washing, if you will. This is perfectly normal and things WILL get better. I've been were you are and, the more you realize that xianity is a man-made enterprise, the less you will fear Hell, judgement and Fundy-ass family members.

 

It takes time to de-program just as it took time to program in the first place. Your brain evolved this way because, apparently, this is the best means of survival. This way the brain does not have to cope with everything that comes at it - just the important (repeated) stuff.

 

Keep visiting here and reading/posting. And hit those books suggested here as well - both from members and from the advertisements here and there. @webmdave put them there, not just for the site's survival, but because they have value.

 

Reach out to us.

 

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During my deconversion process I wanted it to be true. "Christ" was my whole life; Christianity was the only worldview I knew. Having the foundation yanked out from under me and being in a freefall with nowhere to get a foothold was very difficult to deal with, so I would much rather have remained in the faith. That proved an impossibility, though. 

 

I've been out for a long time now and have moved on with my life, so these days it doesn't have the emotional appeal that it used to. Chances are that you will reach that point, too. 

 

Hang in there. I wish you the best as you move forward. 

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I think almost everyone wishes magic was real. It isn't. I still miss Santa.

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I never got to believe in Santa, Christmas was for the “lesser” Christians 😆

 

No presents for me 😢.

 

My Lutheran grandma was thrilled whilst becoming an atheist I was now able to celebrate  Christmas. 

 

 

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I just want to find a religions that "works" . that's all. I want one where prayers ( or magic, whatever) are answered and I get what I want.  Anything else is pretty much useless as far as I am concerned.  At the moment  I am seriously thinking about becoming a witch and seeing if that works for me

 

 

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2 hours ago, Jane said:

I just want to find a religions that "works" . that's all. I want one where prayers ( or magic, whatever) are answered and I get what I want.  Anything else is pretty much useless as far as I am concerned.  At the moment  I am seriously thinking about becoming a witch and seeing if that works for me

 

 

Sorry, but there is no magic regardless of how many people want magic to be real and how many belief systems they invent.

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54 minutes ago, florduh said:

Sorry, but there is no magic regardless of how many people want magic to be real and how many belief systems they invent.

 

Have you tried all of them? 

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16 minutes ago, Jane said:

 

Have you tried all of them? 

 

Not sure if you're attempting yuck-yucks here, @Jane.

 

I tried Mormonism then Christianity before I came to the belated realization that ALL religions are man-made. If there WAS a religion out there that worked we'd all (the human race) be there.

 

Still not sure if Jane is begin funny but, for the sake of those guests reading, spend your life enjoying it and focus on what is known to work - science. This way you won't look back an say "Gee, I wish I'd spent more time on fun stuffs and loving those who deserve it instead of chasing false hopes and serving Pastor Ass-Hat!"

 

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Haha; good one. Answered prayer! (All prayers get the yes, no or wait answer of course.)

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4 hours ago, Jane said:

I just want to find a religions that "works" . that's all. I want one where prayers ( or magic, whatever) are answered and I get what I want.  Anything else is pretty much useless as far as I am concerned.  At the moment  I am seriously thinking about becoming a witch and seeing if that works for me

 

And I want dragons to be true and have powers like the force.

 

What we want, and what is reality is often two different things.

 

To quote Dawkins "Science works bitches". You can try and magic a broken arm into place and it might work... maybe... in some weird alternate universe, but here there is a tried and true method and that's going to a hospital and getting it put in a cast. You can try and magic yourself to another place and maybe you can teleport... or not, but there are tried and true methods of getting from A to B (Cars, Planes, Boats etc) I think with your mindset you are setting yourself up for disappointment because no one, unless you are filthy rich, can just wish for something and get what they want. Even the filthy rich can't 'wish' some things into existence.

 

 

@Myrkhoos You seem to be having an emotional need to have some belief, which most humans do. Have you thought of replacing a Christian mindset/worldview/philosophy with a different set? You might try anything from a philosophical naturalist at one end, or a far eastern philosophy on the other.

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5 hours ago, Jane said:

I just want to find a religions that "works" . that's all. I want one where prayers ( or magic, whatever) are answered and I get what I want.  Anything else is pretty much useless as far as I am concerned.  At the moment  I am seriously thinking about becoming a witch and seeing if that works for me

 

 

 

I think there was a point where we all wanted this. Most of us have given up, and moved on. I hope you find something that works for you. 

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The whole witch idea just reeks of laziness to me. Rather than going out and making things better, investing time and energy to improve your life, you just sit back and expect the universe to bend to your will and provide everything to you. Its the old idea of trying to gain control when you don't have any. Bad things happen to good people, there is no cosmic justice and wishful thinking can't fill that gap. 

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12 hours ago, disillusioned said:

 

I think there was a point where we all wanted this. Most of us have given up, and moved on. I hope you find something that works for you. 

 

Probably not, I wouldn't even ask for the standard stuff like money or something, I would just try to prevent bad things from happening.  It sucks to think there is absolutely no justice of any kind in the universe.  Bad things happen to animals, good people, children AND sometimes bad people but it is very arbitrary.  This has always bothered me.  It 's like realizing good behavior will get you nowhere.   There is not even a clear definition of what "good" behavior is.  

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5 hours ago, Wertbag said:

The whole witch idea just reeks of laziness to me. Rather than going out and making things better, investing time and energy to improve your life, you just sit back and expect the universe to bend to your will and provide everything to you. Its the old idea of trying to gain control when you don't have any. Bad things happen to good people, there is no cosmic justice and wishful thinking can't fill that gap. 

 

But that's the thing, no matter how hard you work at making things better, bad things out of your control still happen.  If there is no cosmic justice, would we all be better off if the planet got hit by a massive asteroid? 

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There are many options left. Morality wasn't invented by Christianity and our earth is exactly the same place it was when you imagined everything was running according to a god's plan. Getting hit by an a massive asteroid as far as any of us are concerned is simply death and our death is certainly on it's way anyhow. I think when we first see that christianity can not be true we still have one foot standing on christianity and the other foot moves to stand on the no christianity side. With time those places our feet are on drift further and further apart until eventually we can't keep that foot on the christianity side at all and must put all our weight on the no christianity side. That's when it becomes clear that this place without christianity is safe and fine as can be. We don't have to choose to be immoral but we must think about each moral issue and decide if we think it has value or not. We do not lose any more meaning than we choose to let go of. We have never known anything of eternity no matter how hard we tried to convince ourselves so our focus belongs on this life we are living right now. We must look for meaning and beauty right here today as it appears that other living creatures do. We do belong and we are just as important as anything on our planet and quite possibly as anything in the universe. In fact we still have that same awe we had for god only now we see it was actually for the vast and mostly unknown universe. Our DNA may sometimes cause us to create make believe gods but also our DNA allows us to continue on, unharmed if we need to let go of that prop and look at exactly what we have here and now and see as clearly as possible what this place is where we find ourselves living. The reason Einstein was so misunderstood regarding christianity was because he was so mystified by the order he saw in the universe and he held an extraordinary reverence for the vastness of space. At the end of his life he felt compelled to clarify his certainty that the christian god and all the accompanying fairy tales were only made up stories. I'm sure that after serious thought you won't want to live in a world exclusively dictated by might makes right or where compassion has no place. It's just that now you must consciously choose to work to help make the kind of world you want to have and do it realizing you have choices. I find everything about this proposition much preferred to the chaotic patchwork morality that must be carefully extracted from the immorality crazily woven into the biblical texts. Clear thinking is truly beautiful Jane and that is something you can hang onto for the rest of your life. This is the time to build a world view that is actually solid and stays within the parameters of what you can know so that it will carry you through the remainder of your life.

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14 hours ago, Jane said:

 

Probably not, I wouldn't even ask for the standard stuff like money or something, I would just try to prevent bad things from happening.  It sucks to think there is absolutely no justice of any kind in the universe.  Bad things happen to animals, good people, children AND sometimes bad people but it is very arbitrary.  This has always bothered me.  It 's like realizing good behavior will get you nowhere.   There is not even a clear definition of what "good" behavior is.  

 

I speak here from the POV of someone who spent a number of years studying magic and still wishes it were real (although I'm now convinced that if there is such a thing as magic, science is our best bet to find it).

 

There are several very significant psychological phenomena in play when you muck about with things in the general category of "magic."  One involves cultivating skills like visualization , concentration and willpower.  In my opinion these all act upon the physical brain and help remodel it -- ideally, in a positive way.  The mental power that you develop can make you more effective in dealing with real-world problems.

 

The one aspect of the art that disturbs me is appropriately called "magical thinking" -- the idea that your thoughts, gestures and rituals are powerful enough to affect events at a distance and even bend the laws of nature into unlikely or impossible configurations.  This is where you are most likely to crash and burn, to suffer disappointment, so if you do go down this path my advice is to guard your emotions:  Keep a curious, experimental, almost playful attitude rather than intense hopes and desperate flailing.

 

And in closing, here is my personal definition:

 

Magic is the art and science of controlling the effects by controlling the causes.

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2 hours ago, Astreja said:

 

  Keep a curious, experimental, almost playful attitude rather than intense hopes and desperate flailing.

 

 

^^Good advice. Experiment. See what works and what doesnt.  Dont abandon common sense. Have fun. 

 

Consider high magick and low magick. 

 

High magick is personal spirituality and transformation  http://www.witchipedia.com/def:high-magick

 

Low magick is the practical kind....http://www.witchipedia.com/def:low-magick

 

 

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On 8/6/2019 at 3:24 PM, LogicalFallacy said:

 

And I want dragons to be true and have powers like the force.

 

 

Any more talk like that will get your atheist license suspended. 😝

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5 minutes ago, midniterider said:

 

Any more talk like that will get your atheist license suspended. 😝

 Lmao. You of course noted how I differentiated between  what I want, what is reality and what I believe? :P

 

Heck I want a million dollars. Two even 😉

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thanks guys, right now I think I just want to get better and get back to work.  Then , when I am in a better frame of mind I will check into the magic thing. I am afraid if I start now, it will not turn out well because of my state of mind, which is not good, because I truly hate inactivity and sitting all day more than anything, and there is nothing I can do about it at the moment.  I am probably bordering on depression at the moment.  

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Sometimes the quotes don't seem to work...weird , what am I doing wrong?

 

Anyone : as for wishing for a million $

 

I don't want a million $.    I just want to live on my farm and have enough to pay our bills which are small, and take care of our animals.   What am I going to do with a million $?   What would YOU do with it?  

I wouldn't mind having an extra $15000 to buy a Bobcat loader...but a million?  Can't imagine what I would do with it other than just put it in the bank 

( I guess greed is not a "sin" I have!) 

 

The only thing I wish for is that bad stuff stops happening in my life , bad stuff either completely out of my control, caused by accidents, or nature itself.  

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1 hour ago, Jane said:

 What am I going to do with a million $?

 

I have no idea  :D 

 

1 hour ago, Jane said:

 What would YOU do with it?  

 

Pay off my mortage

Buy a jet ski and new vehicle

Gift some to friends and family

Invest the rest.

 

I already know what I'll do with a million, so if you can magic it, and don't want it send it my way :D 

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What would I do with a million dollars?

 

Probably put $900,000 of it into my savings/investments accounts and retire three years early, and spend the remaining $100K on completing home renovations, upgrading my car (which just turned 16 this year) to a slightly newer one, donating to various charities, travelling a bit more, and buying the E flat sopranino clarinet that I've wanted for several years.

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