Would You Die For Atheism

[Freed]

Would you?

 

After all...

 

Christians die for Jesus Christ. Muslims die for Allah. 

 

If some radical religious freak told you to worship their God or die which one would you do? 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

31 minutes ago, Freed said:

If some radical religious freak told you to worship their God or die which one would you do? 

This isn't a choice between "atheism" and death.  It is a choice between converting to a religion or being slaughtered, which was one of the main ways christianity was spread over Central and South America.  This is not the same as people dying for something they believe in, as in your examples.  Atheism is a lack of belief. 

[midniterider]

How would you go about dying for atheism? In any case no, I'm not an atheist. Would I die for agnosticism? No. I dont die for belief/non-belief systems.

[♦ Fuego ♦]

The question you gave (as pointed out above) is rephrased as "Conform to my belief or I'll kill you". Many would just pretend so as to escape slaughter and perhaps plot ways to subvert the cult. Some might give the finger to the dictator/group and be done with life, preferring death to what the world will become under a totalitarian religious cult. 

[florduh]

[Joshpantera]

6 hours ago, Freed said:

Would you?

 

After all...

 

Christians die for Jesus Christ. Muslims die for Allah. 

 

If some radical religious freak told you to worship their God or die which one would you do? 

 

As mentioned, one popular mistake to make is to treat atheism not as a lack of belief, but as some type of belief in and of itself, which, it isn't. There's no belief that Santa doesn't exist. There is either belief that Santa exists or a lack of belief that Santa exists. Only one of the two require evidence. Only one of the two are a positive belief that someone could potentially die for. 

 

5 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

This is not the same as people dying for something they believe in, as in your examples. 

 

Exactly. 

 

 

 

 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

7 hours ago, Freed said:

Would you?

 

After all...

 

Christians die for Jesus Christ. Muslims die for Allah. 

 

If some radical religious freak told you to worship their God or die which one would you do? 

 

Hell no lmao. Thats what got people tortured and killed during all the witch hunts in the past. I'd sing like a bird telling them exactly what they wanted to hear so I could live to die another day. And first chance I got I would be a 100 miles away from them never to return.

 

We aren't agnostic and athiest because we are stupid. We question things. We think about things. And we would lose nothing by making them think we were believers. The reason those people died by staying true to their faith was because they thought there would be a worse punishment if they didn't. We know that an afterlife punishment doesn't exist. So why wouldn't we do whatever we needed to do to live? 

[mwc]

     I sure would die for atheism.  It's the only way I can ensure that I can enter a state of pure nothingness, non-being or absolutely not existing, when I die.  I cannot risk that by even pretending to have another belief system.

 

     

 

          mwc

 

[LogicalFallacy]

Probably not, not unless there is some grand cause in the scheme of things. And it would have to pretty grand and involve something I deeply care about which is not about the face I'm atheist in itself.

[Myrkhoos]

Your question convert or die refers to many religions as well.

       As to the atheism, it would depend on the respective atheist and his values. "Atheism" is a word that can exist only in direct opposition to a form of "religion" which has its own definition issues so it is not a stable term in itself.

       As to the question, it depends. I mean, does that conversion mean I have to stone my children for cursing? Participating in long drawn out mind altering tehniques ( psychedeloc, hypnotic, trance inducing, etc). Killing other non practitioners? Warmongering? Slave capturing and selling? Or just praise songs for half an hour on a weekend?

     So the question is too vague.

On 5/23/2021 at 6:43 AM, DarkBishop said:

 

Hell no lmao. Thats what got people tortured and killed during all the witch hunts in the past. I'd sing like a bird telling them exactly what they wanted to hear so I could live to die another day. And first chance I got I would be a 100 miles away from them never to return.

 

We aren't agnostic and athiest because we are stupid. We question things. We think about things. And we would lose nothing by making them think we were believers.So why wouldn't we do whatever we needed to do to live? 

   Witches were tortured in order to confess to being witches, which brought on the death penalty. So, in effect, you had two choices most of the time. Confess and be killed. Don t confess, be tortured to get a confession, then die. Repentance  was not on the menu usually from what I gather.

      What if the initiation right means killing a newborn baby and eating its flesh? And then going to war in a jungle where there is no escape? The OP did not say what type of religion it was. Would really go that far in order to live?

       By the way, by that line of thought NO rights you enjoy would have been enacted because it took many wars and deaths and conflicts for them to be made. The Civil war which ended US slavery took hundreds of thousands of lives. And that is just one example. You are the beneficiary of people who chose to die for their principles, for some of your principle which you hold dear. Worker rights, women s rights, civil rights were obtained through much suffering.  So I think you would lose a whote lot, your whole of life to pretend to be a believer.

    You might only think of the washed up version of liberal Christianity, but pretending to be a Muslim in Saudi Arabia is actually considerably harder. And it would have been much harder a few hundreds of years back.

[mwc]

2 hours ago, Myrkhoos said:

 

      What if the initiation right means killing a newborn baby and eating its flesh? 

 

     I thought this was one of the perks of being atheist?  

 

          mwc

 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

On 5/30/2021 at 12:05 AM, Myrkhoos said:

By the way, by that line of thought NO rights you enjoy would have been enacted because it took many wars and deaths and conflicts for them to be made. The Civil war which ended US slavery took hundreds of thousands of lives. And that is just one example. You are the beneficiary of people who chose to die for their principles, for some of your principle which you hold dear. Worker rights, women s rights, civil rights were obtained through much suffering.  So I think you would lose a whote lot, your whole of life to pretend to be a believer.

 

I would still do whatever it took to live. If this is all I got I gotta try n stretch it out atleast. If it was a confess and die or torture and die situation I guess I would opt for the no torture side of it. I mean either way your dead right? 

 

[pantheory]

On 5/22/2021 at 12:53 PM, Freed said:

Would you?

 

After all...

 

Christians die for Jesus Christ. Muslims die for Allah. 

 

If some radical religious freak told you to worship their God or die which one would you do? 

 

Yeah, but for Abrahamic religions you are expecting an afterlife. In atheism we are expecting nothingness after death.  There might be reasons to choose death over life, but atheism is not one of them. This would be something like dying for your principles when nothing is to be gained from dying. Not even a stupid atheist would make this choice IMO.

[Myrkhoos]

59 minutes ago, pantheory said:

 

Yeah, but for Abrahamic religions you are expecting an afterlife. In atheism we are expecting nothingness after death.  There might be reasons to choose death over life, but atheism is not one of them. This would be something like dying for your principles where nothing is to be gained from doing so. Not even a stupid atheist would make this choice IMO.

I think dying for your principles can actually be a gain. Bk, it depends if you see life as valuable no matter what, or only a type of life. So if you think hypocritical life is worse than death, than death spares you a whole deal of suffering.

      Plus you might think of the next genneration and that prefer death overvan injust life can hel bring about just life for others.

[Myrkhoos]

5 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

 

I would still do whatever it took to live. If this is all I got I gotta try n stretch it out atleast. If it was a confess and die or torture and die situation I guess I would opt for the no torture side of it. I mean either way your dead right? 

 

So you would literally do every unspeakable act just to live? If a psychopath told you to rape your mother in order to live you would do it? What kind of "life" is that anyway? I do not place value on life, I think life only in certain circumstances is preferable to death as annihilation.

     I find live no matter what profoundly immoral position. Also irrational. Bk this means you view chronic intense suffering as preferable to ending suffering. And not very productive because you can be easily coerced if ppl know that. 

[Myrkhoos]

A better question would be are you willing to die for your principles?

[midniterider]

No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. (Generally attributed to General Patton)

 

edit:  “War does not determine who is right — only who is left.” Winston Churchill.

[midniterider]

6 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

 

I would still do whatever it took to live.

 

 

Even if it meant wearing corduroy? 

[Myrkhoos]

2 hours ago, midniterider said:

No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. (Generally attributed to General Patton)

 

edit:  “War does not determine who is right — only who is left.” Winston Churchill.

This was not about war, per se. And it was not about dying for your "country" ( a phrase that always seemed so vague and dubious to me) but about forced conversions.

      And I added dying for one's principles. Again different. Always I did not mention winning. 

      And yes, war is won by subjugating others, and it is a question of might not right. So? That much was and is obvious even for an amoeba. 

     However, if those that ARE right do NOT fight at all, the wrong wins by default. You have a chance of winning, however small, if you fight.

[Myrkhoos]

But yes, there is this cultural trope of honour in dying in battle no matter how futile tye fight . Or stoopid

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

3 hours ago, midniterider said:

 

Even if it meant wearing corduroy? 

My generation invented grunge and I liked corduroy lol. Its comfy  

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

4 hours ago, Myrkhoos said:

So you would literally do every unspeakable act just to live? If a psychopath told you to rape your mother in order to live you would do it? What kind of "life" is that anyway? I do not place value on life, I think life only in certain circumstances is preferable to death as annihilation.

     I find live no matter what profoundly immoral position. Also irrational. Bk this means you view chronic intense suffering as preferable to ending suffering. And not very productive because you can be easily coerced if ppl know that. 

Your going way out there on this one. The OP was implying the Christian mentality of dying for christ. And asking if we would die for athiesm. And my answer is still NO. I would deny athiesm just as Peter supposedly denied christ so he wouldn't be nailed to the cross beside him. That is within the context of the OP. Asking if I would rape my mother to live isnt in context in my opinion.

 

I could just as easily give a more deranged scenario for you to answer. If a group of psychopaths was going to gang rape your children if you didn't rape your mother. What would you do?

 

See? We can go way out there but thats not the context of the OP.

[mwc]

     Not all principles are worth dying over.  For me I think I'll know which those if/when I'm ever confronted with that choice because I can say anything sitting here on my sofa but, gun literally to my head, that answer may change right quick.

 

          mwc

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Dying because I don't believe something would be a foolish thing to do, in my opinion.  On the other hand, dying because I value my personal integrity more than I value the greed, selfishness, and power-hunger of others might be something I would consider, especially if I thought it might lend hope for change.

[florduh]

5 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Dying because I don't believe something would be a foolish thing to do, in my opinion.  On the other hand, dying because I value my personal integrity more than I value the greed, selfishness, and power-hunger of others might be something I would consider, especially if I thought it might lend hope for change.

Working to create change or even martyrdom for a good enough cause is okay as long as you realize it doesn't really affect the path of the stream. As it is said, by doing nothing everything is done.