1 John 3 : 9 & 10. Truly Reborn Christians Cannot Continue To Sin

[walterpthefirst]

1 John 3 : 9 & 10

 

 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 

10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.

 

If we take these words of scripture at face value, interpreting them to mean exactly what they say, then those people who are reborn in the image of Jesus Christ, the true Christians, cannot continue to sin.  Other parts of scripture appear to contradict this, but for now, let us accept a plain reading of 1 John 3 and assume that it is impossible for truly-reborn Christians to continue to sin.

 

But what if someone claiming to be a reborn Christian is seen to continue sinning by lying again and again.  What then?  Then we must look to Hebrews 4 : 12 and 13, to understand what is happening.

 

Hebrews 4 : 12 & 13.

 

12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. 

13 Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

 

God’s word cuts both ways.  If it only cuts one way, only against those who dead in their sins, then this contradicts the wording and meaning of scripture. But since God’s word cuts both ways, it must also cut against those who are reborn in Jesus Christ.  That is why…

 

2 Timothy 3 : 16 & 17.

 

16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 

17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

If God’s Word only cuts against un-reborn sinners, then how can it be used to rebuke and correct the servants of God, who are reborn in Christ?  To claim that scripture is only for rebuking and correcting unbelievers is therefore un-Biblical and wrong.

 

So, now that we understand that God’s Word applies to the saved and the damned alike, without partiality, let us return to the case of the Christian who has lied to us, over and over again.  According to our literal reading of 1 John 3, truly reborn Christians cannot continue to sin.  There is therefore only one possible conclusion.

 

The person claiming to be a truly reborn Christian is nothing of the sort. 

 

By continuing in their lies they clearly demonstrate that they are not reborn of Jesus Christ.  They claim that they are, but their behaviour shows us the truth – they are not.  Jesus himself confirms this when he said that by their fruit you will know them.  The spiritual fruit of this so-called reborn Christian tell us all that we need to know.

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

[walterpthefirst]

But if it is possible for reborn Christians to continue to sin, what then?

 

Then Hebrews 10 : 26 – 31 explains what will happen to these unrepentant liars.

 

26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 

27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 

28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 

29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 

30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 

31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

So, whichever way you cut this, unrepentant liars come out of it badly.  If they claim to be reborn Christians but aren't, then their ultimate destination is the everlasting fire.  Or, if they are truly reborn Christians who continue to lie, then their ultimate destination is the everlasting fire.  The only way out is for them to confess their sin, put matters right with those they sinned against and ask god to forgive them.

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

[walterpthefirst]

Revelation 21 : 6 - 8.

 

6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 

7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 

8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

 

 

The lake of eternal torment is the final destination of ALL unrepentant LIARS, saved or unsaved.

 

THIS   MEANS   YOU   !

 

But, it is still not too late.

 

Publicly confess your sin, publicly put matters right with those you sinned against and ask god to forgive you.

 

 

 

 

Walter.

 

 

 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

56 minutes ago, walterpthefirst said:

 

Publicly confess your sin, publicly put matters right with those you sinned against and ask god to forgive you.

 

Walter.

 

I guess I am doomed either way I go.  It would be Hell to admit I made a mistake!  

[pantheory]

Although I must reluctantly admit that I am human, I don't agree with some of the ideals of the Bible. For instance, I think that fornication is wonderful. Coveting thy neighbor's wife may not be that wonderful, but fooling around with thy neighbor's wife  may be unacceptable, possibly illegal, and probably dangerous -- but not sinful since there ain't no such thing as sin. And I will never admit that I made such mistakes, but  I usually won't brag about them either; kissing and telling ain't my style

[walterpthefirst]

I know that you were logged on to this forum when I posted this thread for your attention, two days ago.  Since then I have seen no indication that you have logged on again.  Most likely, whenever you visit, you lurk as a guest.  That way, nobody else can see if you are reading anything here.

 

This will be my last post in this thread that is directed solely for you attention and I will make no others here unless you break your silence and try to engage with me.

 

It's quite clear that you consider us to be blind and dead spirits who are no better than animals.  And as such, we understand nothing and can tell you nothing.  That we cannot understand the true meaning of scripture.  That we cannot see any of the truths that you, as a reborn and living spirit, can see.

 

But there's something important that you overlook.

 

God can use even dead spirits and dumb animals to guide, correct and rebuke his followers.  The Old Testament has two fine examples of this.  God used the Babylonians to rebuke and punish his chosen people, the Israelites, carrying them away to exile and destroying the temple.  The Babylonians were pagan idolaters whose spirits were just as dead as you consider ours to be.  But they were used as tools by god to bring his people back to obedience.  In the same way, Numbers 22 describes how god used Baalam's own donkey to rebuke him and teach him to be obedient.  

 

So, if you believe that you can learn nothing from us, think again.  Nothing is impossible with god.  He could be using us to open your eyes to his will.  

 

I will say no more to you unless you make the next move.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[pantheory]

2 hours ago, walterpthefirst said:

I know that you were logged on to this forum when I posted this thread for your attention, two days ago.  Since then I have seen no indication that you have logged on again.  Most likely, whenever you visit, you lurk as a guest.  That way, nobody else can see if you are reading anything here.

 

This will be my last post in this thread that is directed solely for you attention and I will make no others here unless you break your silence and try to engage with me.

 

It's quite clear that you consider us to be blind and dead spirits who are no better than animals.  And as such, we understand nothing and can tell you nothing.  That we cannot understand the true meaning of scripture.  That we cannot see any of the truths that you, as a reborn and living spirit, can see.

 

But there's something important that you overlook.

 

God can use even dead spirits and dumb animals to guide, correct and rebuke his followers.  The Old Testament has two fine examples of this.  God used the Babylonians to rebuke and punish his chosen people, the Israelites, carrying them away to exile and destroying the temple.  The Babylonians were pagan idolaters whose spirits were just as dead as you consider ours to be.  But they were used as tools by god to bring his people back to obedience.  In the same way, Numbers 22 describes how god used Baalam's own donkey to rebuke him and teach him to be obedient.  

 

So, if you believe that you can learn nothing from us, think again.  Nothing is impossible with god.  He could be using us to open your eyes to his will.  

 

I will say no more to you unless you make the next move.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why bother? He meant no harm here and was only tying to help us, according to his beliefs IMO --  similar to most ex-Christians that come here. Many of us roar like hungry lions, but many or most of us would rather play with our prey (bat them around a bit) rather than tear them apart.

[walterpthefirst]

Why bother? He meant no harm here and was only tying to help us, according to his beliefs IMO --  similar to most ex-Christians that come here. Many of us roar like hungry lions, but many or most of us would rather play with  (knock around a bit) our prey rather than tear them apart.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Why bother?

 

I can think of some reasons why.

 

1.

'meant no harm' as you put it, amounted to him insulting all of us and repeatedly lying to me and about me.  You may be happy to playfully accept that, but I have a great deal of respect for my fellow ex-Christians and I don't like seeing them abused like this.  I also hold the truth in high esteem and won't have other people using me to twist the truth to their own ends.

 

2.

'according to his beliefs' as you put it, amounted to him repeatedly threatening us with eternal hellfire unless we submitted to him. Again, you might just shrug this off, but there are newly-joined members of our ranks who have recently exited from Christianity.  They are emotionally fragile and need defending from this kind of aggressive bullying and coercion.  Standing up to it and not giving in an inch shows them two important things.  First, that visiting Christians have no power whatsoever to hurt them any more.  Second, it also shows them that they have friends here who will protect them from further abuse.

 

(You might understand better Pantheory, if you put yourself in the shoes of these vulnerable ex-Christians, rather than just seeing this from your own p.o.v.)

 

3.  

Hungry lions don't play with their food - they kill it, tear it to pieces and then eat it.  They can't afford to waste the time and effort playing with their food.  Roaring at visiting Christians and then just playing with them may be fun for you, but how does that serve the needs of ex-Christians who need protecting and reassurance?  Unless, of course, you consider this forum to be your playroom and not a place where you can serve those weaker than yourself?  

 

 

Oh and lastly, you got this wrong.

 

similar to most ex-Christians that come here.

 

It is the Christians and not the ex-Christians who come here trying to 'help' us through bullying, threats and lies.

 

 

 

Walter.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

1 hour ago, walterpthefirst said:

 

It is the Christians and not the ex-Christians who come here trying to 'help' us through bullying, threats and lies.

 

Walter.

 

Perhaps a more appropriate title would be fake christians.  

[TheRedneckProfessor]

26 minutes ago, Weezer said:

 

Perhaps a more appropriate title would be fake christians.  

Walt is using the term "reborn" in order to direct his challenge at a particular apologist who recently tucked tail and ran. 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

17 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Walt is using the term "reborn" in order to direct his challenge at a particular apologist who recently tucked tail and ran. 

 Unless my eyes are playing tricks on me, he used the word "christian", and I knew what he was referring to.  My response was a joke, playing off Trump's saying so many things are "fake".  Perrhaps I should have put a happy face after it.

 

  

[TheRedneckProfessor]

11 minutes ago, Weezer said:

 Unless my eyes are playing tricks on me, he used the word "christian", and I knew what he was referring to.  My response was a joke, playing off Trump's saying so many things are "fake".  Perrhaps I should have put a happy face after it.

 

  

Eh, just ignore me.  I always get a little moody when a christian runs off and there's unfinished business still on the table.  I need closure, damn it!

[◊ Weezer ◊]

2 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Eh, just ignore me.  I always get a little moody when a christian runs off and there's unfinished business still on the table.  I need closure, damn it!

 

Yes, those people can definitely get under our skin.  I don't want to come off as a "know it all", but as a retired Psychiatric Social Worker have had experience in dealing with the craziest of the crazy people.  Perhaps I can share some things that will help remove some of the frustration in dealing with them.  And if Reborn comes back and reads this, perhaps will plant a seed in his mind when he comes down off what I believe is a manic phase.  He may be suffering from a Bipolar disorder.  I believe we have seen several of those on the site.  When in the manic (to different degrees) phase they can go for days without sleep, have endless energy, can have immediate "comebacks" (often irrational) and are grandiose, often believe they can accomplish anything.  Arguing with them is futile.  And there are several different mental "conditions" that make arguing with them futile. 

 

In a sense I believe people who come here and go into continuing irrational circles are either "fake" christians (trolls), or are experiencing some kind of irrationality that goes beyond what a "normal" christian is going through.  The "normal" christian irrationality is mainly focused on their religion.  Outside religion they function in a pretty rational way.  If they come here they may be somewhat naive, thinking they can bring us back to the fold.  But after a few pages see the futiity of it and shake the dust off their feet as they leave.  If it goes beyond that, there is something else going on, and other than possibly being a teaching experience for lurkers, you will likely get nowhere with them.  If you know what to expect, perhaps it won't be so frustrating.  I have to remind myself of that frequently. 

[walterpthefirst]

Thank you for this interesting insight, Weezer.

 

As the RedneckProfessor has already pointed out, RKI seemed, at first, to be very similar to Pittsburgh Joe, in that they both 'knew' that quantum physics somehow proved the existence of the god of the Bible.  Like Joe, RKI didn't seem to understand that things 'known' by faith cannot under any circumstances be properly scientific, because faith plays no role in science.  Furthermore, science itself is strictly agnostic, which allows people of all creeds, religions and beliefs to practice it.  That was lost on both of them too. RKI also didn't grasp that anyone can make a YouTube video and those videos he linked to don't constitute peer-reviewed science, either.  You find properly peer-reviewed quantum science papers on such reputable sites as Arxiv.org or Nature.com.  Not on YouTube.  But is seems that because RKI believed it - it was then absolute truth.

 

Given that two Christians have come here displaying very similar behavioural tropes, do you think they were both displaying bipolar grandiosity?

 

Here's the Pittsburgh Joe threads, if you want to give them a once over.

 

https://www.ex-christian.net/topic/84976-what-causes-uncertainty/#comments

https://www.ex-christian.net/topic/84969-does-anyone-know-what-the-double-slit-experiment-is/

https://www.ex-christian.net/topic/84975-what-causes-entanglement/

https://www.ex-christian.net/topic/84983-now-this-i-say-brethren-that-flesh-and-blood-cannot-inherit-the-kingdom-of-god-neither-doth-corruption-inherit-incorruption/

(Third post in PJ says this... 'The point is for you see this physical reality as a test.'  Just like RKI. ????)  

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Yes.  Thank you @Weezer.  To clarify, though, it was not RKI's behavior that aggravates me, manic or otherwise.  I'm seldom, if ever, bothered by the predictable manners in which christians generally carry themselves.  But the running off scared and cowardly with business left unhandled, that bothers me whether it be a christian here in the Den, a colleague at work, or a professional in the marketplace.  It just ain't no way for a person to conduct their affairs.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

See?  He was lurking at 20:05 and still left this bit of business unfinished.

 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

When I was a christian, I had it drummed into my skull that I must be ready "in season and out" to give account of my beliefs.  It was expected that a christian would always have an answer to any challenge the world, the enemy, the godless might offer.  Because I was baptized and indwelt by the holy spirit of the most high god, I was always ready and willing.

 

It's a shame I wasn't a "real" christian, one of the Elect, like RKI.  Then I could have ducked out, avoided the business of heaven, and saved myself a lot of embarrassment. 

[MrWhiskers654]

Hello, 

 

I would love to have a discussion with you concerning your change of heart from your Christian faith. From this specific post, can you talk with me about when you had a realization that the Christian faith or perhaps God in general were non-existent? I would love to continue a discussion. 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

5 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

 

  But the running off scared and cowardly with business left unhandled, that bothers me whether it be a christian here in the Den, a colleague at work, or a professional in the marketplace.  It just ain't no way for a person to conduct their affairs.

 

You are thinking rationally.  Remember, they are not.  And the more pressure they are feeling, the more illogical they can become.  Don't take it personally.  In a sense they aren't "thinking".  They are reacting and spouting out whatever rhetoric comes to mind at the time.  And if feeling overwhelmed they may "bail out" on you.  Some of them may be hearing voices telling them what to do.  In some cases it seems like their brains are scrambled.  Some schizophrenics talk in "word salads".  It makes absolutely no sense.  But these people are so disorganized they would probably never get on the forum.  

 

6 hours ago, walterpthefirst said:

 

Given that two Christians have come here displaying very similar behavioural tropes, do you think they were both displaying bipolar grandiosity?

 

They may have been.  Or a mixture of conditions.  These people often do not fit neatly into single catagories.  Even on a psy unit under 24 hour observation and testing it can take a couple of days to sort it out, and many have a mixed diagnosis, (HA! sometimes after much arguing among staff.  Then the head M.D. calls the shot)  So I couldn't know for sure what we were dealing with just from their posts here.  Reborns stamina, quick know-it-all responses, irrationality and seemingly no sleep for a couple of days made me suspicious.  And several mental conditions have the illogical, delusional characteristics.  You just get a feeling when reading their responses that something is off.  And it just occured to me that some of the people with mental disorders also seemed obsessed with far out "scientific" theories. 

 

Remember these people come with different degrees of irrationality, and when it starts getting circular, and they start getting belligerent and accusatory, it will likely only get worse.  The "normal" ones will agree to disagree and leave.  Or just quietly fade away.

 

5 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

 

It's a shame I wasn't a "real" christian, one of the Elect, like RKI.  Then I could have ducked out, avoided the business of heaven, and saved myself a lot of embarrassment. 

 

Thank goodness you had the grit to get out of there!

[TheRedneckProfessor]

8 hours ago, MrWhiskers654 said:

Hello, 

 

I would love to have a discussion with you concerning your change of heart from your Christian faith. From this specific post, can you talk with me about when you had a realization that the Christian faith or perhaps God in general were non-existent? I would love to continue a discussion. 

I would advise you to start a thread of your own.  We'd be happy to answer/discuss any questions you have.  If you have any trouble starting a thread, just let me know.  Looking forward to hearing from you soon. 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

6 hours ago, Weezer said:

You are thinking rationally.  Remember, they are not.  And the more pressure they are feeling, the more illogical they can become.  Don't take it personally.  In a sense they aren't "thinking".  They are reacting and spouting out whatever rhetoric comes to mind at the time.  And if feeling overwhelmed they may "bail out" on you.  Some of them may be hearing voices telling them what to do.  In some cases it seems like their brains are scrambled.  Some schizophrenics talk in "word salads".  It makes absolutely no sense.  But these people are so disorganized they would probably never get on the forum. 

I find it therapeutic to see such behavior in real time.  It helps me to understand my own childhood with its attendant indoctrination and abuse.  I can see, in the actions of others, the reasons I acted the way I did.  Most of it boils down to defense mechanisms and acceptance needs; and many of the personality traits and quirks develop from patterns repeated during childhood in response to those two drives.  I say that I crack skulls here in the Den in hopes that some truth and reason might slip in; but, in truth, it's as much about my own healing as it is helping others.

[♦ Fuego ♦]

8 hours ago, Weezer said:

Reborns stamina, quick know-it-all responses, irrationality and seemingly no sleep for a couple of days made me suspicious.  And several mental conditions have the illogical, delusional characteristics.  You just get a feeling when reading their responses that something is off.

 

I've seen this several times. My best buddy since high school was in the christian cult Maranatha, and it was an emotional pressure cooker of performance. He eventually started claiming that god wanted him to be a prophet to North Korea and win them to Jesus. He hadn't slept for days and was being WAY too confident and dismissive of anything to the contrary. Another friend found a way to get him to the hospital where he was committed for a while. Very rocky road of recovery but doing well now.

 

Another guy I knew in college was impressed with how Pentecostals seemed to feel god, and went to a "marathon" prayer session, intent on getting the Holy Spirit. He snapped and began having visions, was uber confident that god was now speaking directly to him, stopped sleeping because "god was sustaining him", etc. After he finally crashed and the voices stopped, he felt like he must be in sin. He became very quiet and seemed embarrassed by his previous behavior.

 

My old pastor's wife at one evening service began playing a long rambling song about how great her husband is, made up on the fly because she felt god was speaking through her. He finally stopped her. Some days later after not sleeping for a long time, she says she saw satan and challenged him. She snapped and ended up killing the family dog as a sacrifice to satan, tore out one of her own eyes, and was hospitalized and put on chemicals to balance her brain chemistry. Jesus got the glory for that last part. 

[walterpthefirst]

  17 hours ago, walterpthefirst said:

 

Given that two Christians have come here displaying very similar behavioural tropes, do you think they were both displaying bipolar grandiosity?

 

They may have been.  Or a mixture of conditions.  These people often do not fit neatly into single catagories.  Even on a psy unit under 24 hour observation and testing it can take a couple of days to sort it out, and many have a mixed diagnosis, (HA! sometimes after much arguing among staff.  Then the head M.D. calls the shot)  So I couldn't know for sure what we were dealing with just from their posts here.  Reborns stamina, quick know-it-all responses, irrationality and seemingly no sleep for a couple of days made me suspicious.  And several mental conditions have the illogical, delusional characteristics.  You just get a feeling when reading their responses that something is off.  And it just occured to me that some of the people with mental disorders also seemed obsessed with far out "scientific" theories. 

 

Remember these people come with different degrees of irrationality, and when it starts getting circular, and they start getting belligerent and accusatory, it will likely only get worse.  The "normal" ones will agree to disagree and leave.  Or just quietly fade away.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Weezer,

 

Thank you very much for helping us discern something about these poor people.  On the back of your observations, the following questions occur to me.

 

1. 

Do you think RKI's sudden departure might be down to an abrupt end of his grandiose phase? 

 

2.

And still on the subject of his (potential) bipolarity, what's the likely period between grandiose phases?  That second question being related to the possibility of his return when he's on another upward swing.

 

3.

I engaged with RKI on the basis that he represented a clear and present threat to the emotional wellbeing of the newer Ex-Christians of this forum who are still struggling with their own challenges.  What with his repeated threats about hell and suffering and similar.  From what you say about him, I suppose that my modus operandi could be instrumental in triggering his bellicosity. 

 

But, right now, I don't see a better way forward.  If I do nothing, for fear of upsetting him further, then I'll be giving him a free hand to hurt those who are still recovering from their traumatic years in Christianity.  So, do you have any suggestions?

 

I'm sorry to ask you such searching questions, Weezer.  You're hardly in possession of much data about RKI and asking you to make judgements on the sole basis of what's gone down in a single thread is a big ask.  But I do value your thoughts on this matter.

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Then again, maybe he's studying up on us, so that he'll be better prepared next time.  You know, know your enemy and what not.

 

 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

9 hours ago, walterpthefirst said:

 

But, right now, I don't see a better way forward.  If I do nothing, for fear of upsetting him further, then I'll be giving him a free hand to hurt those who are still recovering from their traumatic years in Christianity.  So, do you have any suggestions?

 

I'll be glad to add more later, but I've had a rough day today and not up to it tonight.  Ha! and it's been 17 years since I retired, so I'm really having to squeeze my old brain to remember some of this stuff.  But will address a couple of things now.

 

I wouldn't worry about him him hurting those who are recovering (and coming here).  If they are together enough to make it here, they likely can see through what is going on here.  And as a general rule don't worry doing any harm to the christains coming here.  Especially the agressive ones.  They have strong psychological defenses going.  

 

1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

 

Then again, maybe he's studying up on us, so that he'll be better prepared next time.  You know, know your enemy and what not.

 

This goes along with Walter asking about length of time between bipolar phases.   If he is bipolar, he may not even remember being here after coming down off his high.  And it's hard to tell how long that will be, or how far along he is at this time.  Bipolars cycle slowly, sometimes taking months between cycles, contrary to what many think.  And if they admit they have a problem and will stay on their medication, they can function very well.  Several well known and successful people have that diagnosis.  With their energy they have endurance and can be very creative.  But the energy feels so good, they often will decide they no longer want the medication.  Some having to crash a few times before realizing they need to stay on the meds.  They can literally exhaust themselves to the point of collapse.  Also, they may go into a period of fairly severe depression after being manic.  If you are interested in this kind of stuff, go to Wikipedia and look up Bipolar disorder.  Also look up Delusional disorder.   And others that might come here are are Borderline personality disorder, and Narcissistic personality disorder (which Trump is)(with delusional traits).  Borderline p.d. are the ones that can get very nasty.  They tend to bait you into situations, then stab you in the back.  Thank goodness not many of them exist.     

 

HA!  It looks like I answered most of your questions after I got started.  I was almost asleep when I started, but now am wide awake.  Let me know if you have more questions.  It's good exercise for my brain.  

 

I might add that the mental health profession is still developing and Iv'e been gone from it 17 years.  There may have been some changes in thinking, and hopefully in some of the terminology they use.  To me, Bipolar, and Borderline personaliy are not good descriptions of the "disorders".  And mental "illness" to me is a misnomer.  It got called an illness because medical doctors are in charge, and can get paid for treating "illnesses".