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Many people think here that the truth can be proved only by a scientific evidence. But science is limited, and its purpose is not proving what the truth is. Its purpose is to discover, to investigate, to invent. But people sometimes try to fix what is good and what is evil by science, or try to fix the truth, existence of God. It is unreal. I heard when Yuri Gagarin turned back from his first flight into space he was asked: Did you see God in the space? He answered, he did not. So does it mean that there is no God just because you cannot see Him or touch Him?

 

For example if you have your father, or a mother, how do you know for sure that they are your father or your mother? Have you made a DNA test to be sure? do you do it every month to be firmed in your knowledge? If you haven't do any DNA test, or if you haven't brought your parent to a laboratory to divide him into particles for making chemical analyses? so then how do you know that he is your father?

 

Can you defend your faith in scientific evidences?

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3 hours ago, aik said:

Many people think here that the truth can be proved only by a scientific evidence. But science is limited, and its purpose is not proving what the truth is. Its purpose is to discover, to investigate, to invent. But people sometimes try to fix what is good and what is evil by science, or try to fix the truth, existence of God. It is unreal. I heard when Yuri Gagarin turned back from his first flight into space he was asked: Did you see God in the space? He answered, he did not. So does it mean that there is no God just because you cannot see Him or touch Him?

 

For example if you have your father, or a mother, how do you know for sure that they are your father or your mother? Have you made a DNA test to be sure? do you do it every month to be firmed in your knowledge? If you haven't do any DNA test, or if you haven't brought your parent to a laboratory to divide him into particles for making chemical analyses? so then how do you know that he is your father?

 

Can you defend your faith in scientific evidences?

 

It's a mistake to base an argument on a false proposition, aik.

 

Can you specifically quote where many people said what you claimed, that the truth can only be proved by scientific evidence?

 

If not, then your proposition is false.

 

Therefore, please cite where 'many people' claimed that the truth can only be proved by scientific evidence.

 

Thank you,

 

Walter.

 

 

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Another brilliant example of Soviet science, completely ignoring the obvious connection between your red hair and the milkman's red hair in favor of holding the belief that the man married to your mom really did sire you.

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4 hours ago, walterpthefirst said:

 

It's a mistake to base an argument on a false proposition, aik.

Can you specifically quote where many people said what you claimed, that the truth can only be proved by scientific evidence?

If not, then your proposition is false.

Therefore, please cite where 'many people' claimed that the truth can only be proved by scientific evidence.

Thank you,

Walter.

 

 

 

aik,

 

There's no need for you to bother citing where many people here think that the truth can only be proved by scientific evidence.

 

You've only been active in three threads; this one, the Tower of Babel and New Christian Visitor.

 

And I just checked in each of them and nowhere do 'many people' say that 'the truth can only be proved by scientific evidence'.

 

In my opinion you aren't lying about this - but you are definitely mistaken on the following points.

 

1.  That many people said that the truth can only be proved by scientific evidence.  Nobody said that.

 

2.  In science proofs only exist in mathematics.  None of the other sciences, like physics or biology, ever use proofs.

 

3.  Science had never claimed that it can prove the truth about anything.  It's simply a tool for investigating and understanding the natural world.

 

Please read these to discover what science can and cannot do.

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/200811/common-misconceptions-about-science-i-scientific-proof

 

http://ds-wordpress.haverford.edu/psych2015/projects/chapter/scientific-proof/

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2017/11/22/scientific-proof-is-a-myth/?sh=e0cb9452fb1b

 

https://theconversation.com/wheres-the-proof-in-science-there-is-none-30570

 

https://thelogicofscience.com/2016/04/19/science-doesnt-prove-anything-and-thats-a-good-thing/

 

Thank you,

 

Walter.

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10 hours ago, aik said:

Many people think here that the truth can be proved only by a scientific evidence. But science is limited, and its purpose is not proving what the truth is. Its purpose is to discover, to investigate, to invent. But people sometimes try to fix what is good and what is evil by science, or try to fix the truth, existence of God. It is unreal. I heard when Yuri Gagarin turned back from his first flight into space he was asked: Did you see God in the space? He answered, he did not. So does it mean that there is no God just because you cannot see Him or touch Him?

 

For example if you have your father, or a mother, how do you know for sure that they are your father or your mother? Have you made a DNA test to be sure? do you do it every month to be firmed in your knowledge? If you haven't do any DNA test, or if you haven't brought your parent to a laboratory to divide him into particles for making chemical analyses? so then how do you know that he is your father?

 

Can you defend your faith in scientific evidences?

 

Your trolling is not improving.

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Has anyone done a DNA test on jesus to make sure god was his father?  Or did he just not exist?

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42 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Has anyone done a DNA test on jesus to make sure god was his father?  Or did he just not exist?

Yeah maybe they can get some DNA out of the Shroud of Turin. 🙂

 

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13 hours ago, aik said:

Many people think here that the truth can be proved only by a scientific evidence. But science is limited, and its purpose is not proving what the truth is. Its purpose is to discover, to investigate, to invent. But people sometimes try to fix what is good and what is evil by science, or try to fix the truth, existence of God. It is unreal. I heard when Yuri Gagarin turned back from his first flight into space he was asked: Did you see God in the space? He answered, he did not. So does it mean that there is no God just because you cannot see Him or touch Him?

 

For example if you have your father, or a mother, how do you know for sure that they are your father or your mother? Have you made a DNA test to be sure? do you do it every month to be firmed in your knowledge? If you haven't do any DNA test, or if you haven't brought your parent to a laboratory to divide him into particles for making chemical analyses? so then how do you know that he is your father?

 

Can you defend your faith in scientific evidences?

 

"Many people think here that the truth can be proved only by a scientific evidence. But science is limited, and its purpose is not proving what the truth is. Its purpose is to discover, to investigate, to invent. But people sometimes try to fix what is good and what is evil by science, or try to fix the truth, existence of God. It is unreal. I heard when Yuri Gagarin turned back from his first flight into space he was asked: Did you see God in the space? He answered, he did not. So does it mean that there is no God just because you cannot see Him or touch Him?"

 

It's true that science generally does not prove things but it's purpose is to discover truths which it often does. Science also can be bent in a non-scientific way since half of the scientists of the world are religious. As an atheist I have decided on my own moral system. For instance you and I may agree on many of the same thiings. You call them good and bad, and I call them positive behavior and negative behavior, I might throw in a thing or two in the good side like fornication, and throw to the bad side as not morally good to eat meat, but we probably would agree on most of the same things concerning good and bad, but to me all religions of the world are no more than fabricated foolishness like Greek Mythology. I don't believe in God since such an idea is a joke to me like the Easter Bunny.

 

For example if you have your father, or a mother, how do you know for sure that they are your father or your mother? Have you made a DNA test to be sure? do you do it every month to be firmed in your knowledge? If you haven't do any DNA test, or if you haven't brought your parent to a laboratory to divide him into particles for making chemical analyses? so then how do you know that he is your father?

 

Yes, my DNA test is similar to my siblings but my parents died of old age. Usually you can be more certain that your mother is your mother, but based upon statistics from 5-10 % do not know of their real father.

 

Can you defend your faith in scientific evidences?

 

As a scientist myself I'm sure I can defend my belief in some scientific theory like natural selection, for instance, but I also believe the Big Bang theory is wrong. So I believe nothing unless I have a great deal of evidence to support it. So as you might understand religion is not one of them because I believe there is no evidence in the slightest that it could be true IMHO.

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, aik said:

Many people think here that the truth can be proved only by a scientific evidence. But science is limited, and its purpose is not proving what the truth is. Its purpose is to discover, to investigate, to invent. But people sometimes try to fix what is good and what is evil by science, or try to fix the truth, existence of God. It is unreal. I heard when Yuri Gagarin turned back from his first flight into space he was asked: Did you see God in the space? He answered, he did not. So does it mean that there is no God just because you cannot see Him or touch Him?

 

For example if you have your father, or a mother, how do you know for sure that they are your father or your mother? Have you made a DNA test to be sure? do you do it every month to be firmed in your knowledge? If you haven't do any DNA test, or if you haven't brought your parent to a laboratory to divide him into particles for making chemical analyses? so then how do you know that he is your father?

 

Can you defend your faith in scientific evidences?

 

I have a brother who has a Ph.D. in genetics.  If I ever felt a need to test my father's DNA I would have had an excellent resource to call upon.

 

However, I have never felt any need to question my link to my (now-deceased) father.  None.  He was a major part of my upbringing, and I'm grateful for the time that I got to spend with him.

 

In contrast, I feel no connection at all to the god of Christianity.  None.  I see it as a fictional being, with no more standing than any other god from human mythology past and present.  Even if it did exist, it is a non-entity in my life.

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1 hour ago, DarkBishop said:

Yeah maybe they can get some DNA out of the Shroud of Turin. 🙂

 

 

Or one of the many foreskins of Jesus that were being paraded around in churches during the Middle Ages.  Must've gotten a group discount on the bris.  :grin:

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16 hours ago, aik said:

Can you defend your faith in scientific evidences?

What a strange thing to say.  Listen, friend, when there is evidence, faith is irrelevant and unnecessary... because there is evidence.  When a sufficient amount of evidence supports a certain principle or hypothesis, then that principle is considered a fact; and facts do not require faith.  Facts only require understanding, knowledge, and acceptance. 

 

If you had a DNA test done, would you believe by faith that the red-headed milkman really was your father?  Or would you accept it as an established fact based on the results of the test?  Perhaps, if you're like me, you'd want the test run in triplicate to verify the results.  Would you accept the results after 3 tests?  7 tests?  12?  Or would you still cling to the idea that blonde-haired Volodya really is your papa because he's married to your blonde-haired matushka?  That is the difference between faith and knowledge, my son.

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33 minutes ago, Astreja said:

In contrast, I feel no connection at all to the god of Christianity.  None.  I see it as a fictional being, with no more standing than any other god from human mythology past and present.  Even if it did exist, it is a non-entity in my life.

You bring up a good point that makes me think about the bibles methodology of proving whether a God was a God or not. The false God's didn't answer prayers or make miracles. 

 

1 Kings 18

21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the Lord be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.

22 Then said Elijah unto the people, I, even I only, remain a prophet of the Lord; but Baal's prophets are four hundred and fifty men.

23 Let them therefore give us two bullocks; and let them choose one bullock for themselves, and cut it in pieces, and lay it on wood, and put no fire under: and I will dress the other bullock, and lay it on wood, and put no fire under:

24 And call ye on the name of your gods, and I will call on the name of the Lord: and the God that answereth by fire, let him be God. And all the people answered and said, It is well spoken.

25 And Elijah said unto the prophets of Baal, Choose you one bullock for yourselves, and dress it first; for ye are many; and call on the name of your gods, but put no fire under.

26 And they took the bullock which was given them, and they dressed it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even until noon, saying, O Baal, hear us. But there was no voice, nor any that answered. And they leaped upon the altar which was made.

27 And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked.

28 And they cried aloud, and cut themselves after their manner with knives and lancets, till the blood gushed out upon them.

29 And it came to pass, when midday was past, and they prophesied until the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that there was neither voice, nor any to answer, nor any that regarded.

30 And Elijah said unto all the people, Come near unto me. And all the people came near unto him. And he repaired the altar of the Lord that was broken down.

31 And Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, unto whom the word of the Lord came, saying, Israel shall be thy name:

32 And with the stones he built an altar in the name of the Lord: and he made a trench about the altar, as great as would contain two measures of seed.

33 And he put the wood in order, and cut the bullock in pieces, and laid him on the wood, and said, Fill four barrels with water, and pour it on the burnt sacrifice, and on the wood.

34 And he said, Do it the second time. And they did it the second time. And he said, Do it the third time. And they did it the third time.

35 And the water ran round about the altar; and he filled the trench also with water.

36 And it came to pass at the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said, Lord God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that thou art God in Israel, and that I am thy servant, and that I have done all these things at thy word.

37 Hear me, O Lord, hear me, that this people may know that thou art the Lord God, and that thou hast turned their heart back again.

38 Then the fire of the Lord fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench.

39 And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces: and they said, The Lord, he is the God; the Lord, he is the God.

 

Maybe AIK would like to explain why the God of today in our real world acts more like the God of the prophets of Ba'al? 

 

Silent like he isn't even there. No fire coming down. No Jesus coming back. Like maybe it was a figment of someone's imagination. .............

 

DB

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10 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

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Thant's as straw man ain't it?  :)

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8 minutes ago, pantheory said:

 

Thant's as straw man ain't it?  :)

It is.

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For those interested: upon further investigation, the identity of the milkman has been confirmed.  His given name is Peter Petrovich Petrov.  According to the Russian patronym, this means he is Peter, son of Peter, of the family of Peter.  If it's simpler, though, you can just call him The Red-headed Peter.

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5 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

For those interested: upon further investigation, the identity of the milkman has been confirmed.  His given name is Peter Petrovich Petrov.  According to the Russian patronym, this means he is Peter, son of Peter, of the family of Peter.  If it's simpler, though, you can just call him The Red-headed Peter.

 

My dad was 6' 4" tall and weighed about 340. His dad and grand dad on both sides were about 5'11". He was asked how come he was so big and he would answer that the milkman was 6"5" tall.

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53 minutes ago, pantheory said:

the milkman was 6"5" tall.

Did he have a red-headed peter?

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2 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

What a strange thing to say.  Listen, friend, when there is evidence, faith is irrelevant and unnecessary... because there is evidence.  When a sufficient amount of evidence supports a certain principle or hypothesis, then that principle is considered a fact; and facts do not require faith.  Facts only require understanding, knowledge, and acceptance. 

....

  

Here it is, AIK. Faith and fact are two different things. One does not have nor need faith in fact. I do not need faith to know that gravity exists, that the earth orbits around the sun, and that my dog likes beef jerky. As common here, such discussions devolve into debates over semantics, but here is a dictionary definition of faith. It is not related to fact:

 

faith
noun

 

• allegiance to duty or a person : LOYALTY
• fidelity to one's promises
• sincerity of intentions
• belief and trust in and loyalty to God
• belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion
• firm belief in something for which there is no proof
• complete trust
• something that is believed especially with strong conviction especially : a system of religious beliefs

 

 

You haven't responded to your thread "New Christian Visitor," where I provided observable, testable, independently verifiable facts that prove that the god as defined by Christians cannot possibly exist. Until you provide observable, testable, independently verifiable facts that the Christian god does exist, I maintain that he/she/it does not. If you can provide such facts and in such number as to equal or exceed the facts against it, I will concede that he/she/it does exist and I'll even send you a selfie of me in church getting baptized. Until then, my facts prevail.

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4 hours ago, pantheory said:

 

"Many people think here that the truth can be proved only by a scientific evidence. But science is limited, and its purpose is not proving what the truth is. Its purpose is to discover, to investigate, to invent. But people sometimes try to fix what is good and what is evil by science, or try to fix the truth, existence of God. It is unreal. I heard when Yuri Gagarin turned back from his first flight into space he was asked: Did you see God in the space? He answered, he did not. So does it mean that there is no God just because you cannot see Him or touch Him?"

 

It's true that science generally does not prove things but it's purpose is to discover truths which it often does. Science also can be bent in a non-scientific way since half of the scientists of the world are religious. As an atheist I have decided on my own moral system. For instance you and I may agree on many of the same thiings. You call them good and bad, and I call them positive behavior and negative behavior, I might throw in a thing or two in the good side like fornication, and throw to the bad side as not morally good to eat meat, but we probably would agree on most of the same things concerning good and bad, but to me all religions of the world are no more than fabricated foolishness like Greek Mythology. I don't believe in God since such an idea is a joke to me like the Easter Bunny.

 

For example if you have your father, or a mother, how do you know for sure that they are your father or your mother? Have you made a DNA test to be sure? do you do it every month to be firmed in your knowledge? If you haven't do any DNA test, or if you haven't brought your parent to a laboratory to divide him into particles for making chemical analyses? so then how do you know that he is your father?

 

Yes, my DNA test is similar to my siblings but my parents died of old age. Usually you can be more certain that your mother is your mother, but based upon statistics from 5-10 % do not know of their real father.

 

Can you defend your faith in scientific evidences?

 

As a scientist myself I'm sure I can defend my belief in some scientific theory like natural selection, for instance, but I also believe the Big Bang theory is wrong. So I believe nothing unless I have a great deal of evidence to support it. So as you might understand religion is not one of them because I believe there is no evidence in the slightest that it could be true IMHO.

 

 

 

"For instance you and I may agree on many of the same thiings. You call them good and bad, and I call them positive behavior and negative behavior, I might throw in a thing or two in the good side like fornication, and throw to the bad side as not morally good to eat meat, but we probably would agree on most of the same things concerning good and bad"

 

OK. but which one is true, who decides what is good and what is bad . Obviously your values do not fit with mine (for example). You maybe heard much about religions. You are right that religions are dangerous. But the Bible does not tell us to follow religion, the Bible puts Jesus in a core of life and shows in Him what the God is. For example we see that Jesus is life giver from the Bible, so no one else, Jesus sacrifice Himself for us, no one else, Jesus has power of God, no one else and so on. In Jesus we see the love of God and in no one else. Open your Bible and seek for God. You will see that Jesus never taught us to follow religion.

 

"Yes, my DNA test is similar to my siblings but my parents died of old age. Usually you can be more certain that your mother is your mother, but based upon statistics from 5-10 % do not know of their real father."

 

The point of the question is the basement on which we are making conclusion one to be the father. There are out of science evidences which show better the true situation. For example relationship of your parents with you. 

 

"I believe there is no evidence in the slightest that it could be true IMHO."

 

It is also your belief. On what is based this belief of yours? on which basement or evidence? Have you ever read the Bible to check it out? have you ever tried to build relationships with God based on the Word of God? I know that we are on the ex-christian website. 

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3 hours ago, Astreja said:

 

I have a brother who has a Ph.D. in genetics.  If I ever felt a need to test my father's DNA I would have had an excellent resource to call upon.

 

However, I have never felt any need to question my link to my (now-deceased) father.  None.  He was a major part of my upbringing, and I'm grateful for the time that I got to spend with him.

 

In contrast, I feel no connection at all to the god of Christianity.  None.  I see it as a fictional being, with no more standing than any other god from human mythology past and present.  Even if it did exist, it is a non-entity in my life.

"However, I have never felt any need to question my link to my (now-deceased) father.  None.  He was a major part of my upbringing, and I'm grateful for the time that I got to spend with him."

 

The question here is: Why didn't you ever feel any need to question your link to a man whom you so many times had been calling "father" with a gentleness you tell us? How did you know that he was your father? Can  you  tell me? 

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2 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

What a strange thing to say.  Listen, friend, when there is evidence, faith is irrelevant and unnecessary... because there is evidence.  When a sufficient amount of evidence supports a certain principle or hypothesis, then that principle is considered a fact; and facts do not require faith.  Facts only require understanding, knowledge, and acceptance. 

 

If you had a DNA test done, would you believe by faith that the red-headed milkman really was your father?  Or would you accept it as an established fact based on the results of the test?  Perhaps, if you're like me, you'd want the test run in triplicate to verify the results.  Would you accept the results after 3 tests?  7 tests?  12?  Or would you still cling to the idea that blonde-haired Volodya really is your papa because he's married to your blonde-haired matushka?  That is the difference between faith and knowledge, my son.

Thank you. 

 

"What a strange thing to say. " 

 

I know that it is strange. But it is more strange when one takes a monkey looking at him and takes a man looking at him, and he says they are pretty similar they must be relatives. Or one takes various stories in various religions telling us about virgin birth, about god as a man etc, and he says, look, we know where the story of the bible comes from. This is what i call belief in such kind of evidence. Because it has nothing to do with reality. Or even one brings his limited human logics about A=B, B=C then A=C, and he tries to prove that Buddha was the same as Jesus. If we get into real scientific conclusions we will find many of this stuff. 

 

"Listen, friend, when there is evidence, faith is irrelevant and unnecessary... because there is evidence.  When a sufficient amount of evidence supports a certain principle or hypothesis, then that principle is considered a fact; and facts do not require faith.  Facts only require understanding, knowledge, and acceptance."

 

I agree with it.

 

"If you had a DNA test done, would you believe by faith that the red-headed milkman really was your father?  Or would you accept it as an established fact based on the results of the test?  Perhaps, if you're like me, you'd want the test run in triplicate to verify the results.  Would you accept the results after 3 tests?  7 tests?  12? "

 

This is what i am talking about. If I believe by faith that the milkman is my father then it means that I have evidence to believe otherwise I will never call him a father. And by the way, if I have faith about my father then I don't need to make scientific DNA test, because I have knowledge already. 

 

"Or would you still cling to the idea that blonde-haired Volodya really is your papa because he's married to your blonde-haired matushka? "

 

Volodya has almost no hair. And he never told me that he was my father and never proved it to me.

 

"That is the difference between faith and knowledge"

 

Very wrong claim. Knowledge may come from faith, if the faith has its evidences.

 

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2 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

You bring up a good point that makes me think about the bibles methodology of proving whether a God was a God or not. The false God's didn't answer prayers or make miracles. 

 

1 Kings 18

21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the Lord be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.

22 Then said Elijah unto the people, I, even I only, remain a prophet of the Lord; but Baal's prophets are four hundred and fifty men.

23 Let them therefore give us two bullocks; and let them choose one bullock for themselves, and cut it in pieces, and lay it on wood, and put no fire under: and I will dress the other bullock, and lay it on wood, and put no fire under:

24 And call ye on the name of your gods, and I will call on the name of the Lord: and the God that answereth by fire, let him be God. And all the people answered and said, It is well spoken.

25 And Elijah said unto the prophets of Baal, Choose you one bullock for yourselves, and dress it first; for ye are many; and call on the name of your gods, but put no fire under.

26 And they took the bullock which was given them, and they dressed it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even until noon, saying, O Baal, hear us. But there was no voice, nor any that answered. And they leaped upon the altar which was made.

27 And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked.

28 And they cried aloud, and cut themselves after their manner with knives and lancets, till the blood gushed out upon them.

29 And it came to pass, when midday was past, and they prophesied until the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that there was neither voice, nor any to answer, nor any that regarded.

30 And Elijah said unto all the people, Come near unto me. And all the people came near unto him. And he repaired the altar of the Lord that was broken down.

31 And Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, unto whom the word of the Lord came, saying, Israel shall be thy name:

32 And with the stones he built an altar in the name of the Lord: and he made a trench about the altar, as great as would contain two measures of seed.

33 And he put the wood in order, and cut the bullock in pieces, and laid him on the wood, and said, Fill four barrels with water, and pour it on the burnt sacrifice, and on the wood.

34 And he said, Do it the second time. And they did it the second time. And he said, Do it the third time. And they did it the third time.

35 And the water ran round about the altar; and he filled the trench also with water.

36 And it came to pass at the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said, Lord God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that thou art God in Israel, and that I am thy servant, and that I have done all these things at thy word.

37 Hear me, O Lord, hear me, that this people may know that thou art the Lord God, and that thou hast turned their heart back again.

38 Then the fire of the Lord fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench.

39 And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces: and they said, The Lord, he is the God; the Lord, he is the God.

 

Maybe AIK would like to explain why the God of today in our real world acts more like the God of the prophets of Ba'al? 

 

Silent like he isn't even there. No fire coming down. No Jesus coming back. Like maybe it was a figment of someone's imagination. .............

 

DB

"Maybe AIK would like to explain why the God of today in our real world acts more like the God of the prophets of Ba'al? "

 

That is what really moves my heart. I am sure that God gives His miracles and shows power by testimonies of many Christians today. I speak about real testimonies, not fictions or situations made up a miracle. But i want to question this: Are we now like Elijah or Peter or Paul to see the power of God as they saw? Do we wish to sacrifice our fleshes to serve God? Or we become too busy to know who the God is anyway. 

 

Recently i was reading a book, the history of our church. Acts of our brothers, elders. They had ministries and power of God in various situations acted. It doesn't say that everyone of them the whole day long was doing a miracle. But the prophets also they did not do miracle all the time. Try to count how many miracle you know about a single prophet and count how many days he might live on the earth. It sometimes seam that they were doing miracle every day. Only Jesus did so I think. Maybe not every day but often. 

 

I heard yesterday a testimony of my uncle how God did a miracle through him, a real miracle with a prophesy.

 

There is a guy Philip Blair, from the Torch of Christ ministry. Watch his videos for example. He is a street preacher and God does miracles. 

 

But do you know that the miracle should not become a basement for the faith, Dear Bishop? You were a Bishop, do you remember how an evil man was changed under influence of God's Word and Spirit? I don't know the real situation in America but I guess many of believers are tired of talking about God, everyone wants to see God. If you want to see God then walk with God, sacrifice your plans, sacrifice you schedule, property whatever, walk with Him.

 

"Silent like he isn't even there. No fire coming down. No Jesus coming back. Like maybe it was a figment of someone's imagination. ............."

 

I know what you are talking about. But God is not silent for those who seek Him. 

 

Read Revelation chapter 16. You will see something from there.

 

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42 minutes ago, older said:

  

Here it is, AIK. Faith and fact are two different things. One does not have nor need faith in fact. I do not need faith to know that gravity exists, that the earth orbits around the sun, and that my dog likes beef jerky. As common here, such discussions devolve into debates over semantics, but here is a dictionary definition of faith. It is not related to fact:

 

faith
noun

 

• allegiance to duty or a person : LOYALTY
• fidelity to one's promises
• sincerity of intentions
• belief and trust in and loyalty to God
• belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion
• firm belief in something for which there is no proof
• complete trust
• something that is believed especially with strong conviction especially : a system of religious beliefs

 

 

You haven't responded to your thread "New Christian Visitor," where I provided observable, testable, independently verifiable facts that prove that the god as defined by Christians cannot possibly exist. Until you provide observable, testable, independently verifiable facts that the Christian god does exist, I maintain that he/she/it does not. If you can provide such facts and in such number as to equal or exceed the facts against it, I will concede that he/she/it does exist and I'll even send you a selfie of me in church getting baptized. Until then, my facts prevail.

"You haven't responded to your thread "New Christian Visitor," where I provided observable, testable, independently verifiable facts that prove that the god as defined by Christians cannot possibly exist. Until you provide observable, testable, independently verifiable facts that the Christian god does exist, I maintain that he/she/it does not. If you can provide such facts and in such number as to equal or exceed the facts against it, I will concede that he/she/it does exist and I'll even send you a selfie of me in church getting baptized. Until then, my facts prevail."

 

The proof of God is Jesus. A person of Jesus. Study Him and you will find what you are asking from me. Jesus is the evidence. If Jesus was what it was said in the Bible about Him then God is alive.

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