Is Santa A Primer For Blind Belief?

[Reverend AtheiStar]

 

 

Fine by me. I've said my piece. I'm just repeating myself over and over now. Meanwhile, there are dishes to be done, kids who don't want to go to bed, today's messes to clean and so on and so on. In other words, I've been sitting on my ass for far too long. I need to get this house cleaned up so the kids can mess up it tomorrow. lol... Good night.

 

Heh...you're gonna do DISHES? hehe.

 

Ok i'll stop now. I'm such an uber sexist. I don't mow because it's "man's work." I make Tom mow.

 

And I have to do dishes.

 

I believe in equality. Dishes are human work, as is mowing. It shouldn't be divided into a sex issue. Mowing, though, funny or not, is done exclusively by me -- though my two year old daughter loves to try to help! lol... It's not a safety issue, though, it's a reel mower. It's got no engine.

[AtheistMommy]

 

I see this as taking out of context what was said. The context was...this kid was REALLY excited to be meeting the REAL buzz lightyear. What kind of idiot would crush the light in that kid's eyes just to say it's not really buzz lightyear.

 

In your situation it's quite different. You tell them it's just someone dressed in a suit cause they are SCARED of the suits.

 

We don't want to engender fear and paranoia in kids. Crushing a fear is different than crushing a dream. You tell your kids to reassure them and assuage their fears.

 

If, however it was YOUR kid who thought buzz lightyear was real and this was the REAL buzz he was meeting and his eyes lit up and you told him IN THAT SITUATION that it was just some guy in a suit, I wouldn't say you were an idiot, I'd say you were an asshole.

 

But clearly, from the context we are discussing TWO DIFFERENT suit issues.

 

You said that? Do you have two different names? Or did you change your name?

 

I know, I know, my arument is "totally illogical." I think you've said this to me about 3 or 4 times now. Thanks, I got the message.

 

Yes, they are two different situations but the quote was "what idiot would do this?" I did it, does that make me an idiot? Apparently so from all the "illogical" aruments I've been spreading.

 

Thanks for the claification.

[Lycorth]

Eh... equality is overrated. I don't care for equality. Nope, not at all.

 

[Guest freak]

Is Santa a primer for blind belief?

 

Oh good lord.

 

The cover has been blown. Christianity's secret mission to corrupt rational thought by shameless promotion of magical rabbits with candy, fat men with sleds and little faeries buying kids used teeth is exposed!

 

Congratulations!

 

Way to expose the truth and lead us to enlightenment/empowerment.

 

Carry on, then.

[Lycorth]

hehe. I knew I could count on a fellow pervert to "get that."

 

Seriously, goddamn my life would suck if it was fully of "equality." I like Tom being the boss.

 

There can be a lot of freedom in giving up control of something.

 

In case you haven't noticed, I'm falling back on the "if all else fails, turn the topic to sex" methodology.

 

Hey, no arguments there. I can talk about that kind of sexuality all day long \

 

And coming from someone who is a Master himself, being the boss is fun. I bet Tom is living the high life right now - I know I feel like I am

 

Is Santa a primer for blind belief?

 

Oh good lord.

 

The cover has been blown. Christianity's secret mission to corrupt rational thought by shameless promotion of magical rabbits with candy, fat men with sleds and little faeries buying kids used teeth is exposed!

 

Congratulations!

 

Way to expose the truth and lead us to enlightenment/empowerment.

 

Carry on, then.

 

 

Freak, that was an absolutely perfect summary of this entire thread.

[Asimov]

AtheistMommy, my dad had a good long think about me and belief in Santa, and he can't remember a single time that I actually believed in Santa Claus. I remember kind of believing in the Tooth Fairy and in the Easter Bunny. I never believed in God or Santa Claus.

[Guest freak]

Yes, they are two different situations but the quote was "what idiot would do this?" I did it, does that make me an idiot?

 

I believe you mis-spelled asshole.

A.S.S.H.O.L.E

That is what she called you.

 

And from what little I have gleaned here, she appears to be spot-on in that assessment

[AtheistMommy]

Yes, they are two different situations but the quote was "what idiot would do this?" I did it, does that make me an idiot?

 

I believe you mis-spelled asshole.

A.S.S.H.O.L.E

That is what she called you.

 

And from what little I have gleaned here, she appears to be spot-on in that assessment

 

Thanks.

[Guest freak]

AtheistMommy, my dad had a good long think about me and belief in Santa, and he can't remember a single time that I actually believed in Santa Claus. I remember kind of believing in the Tooth Fairy and in the Easter Bunny. I never believed in God or Santa Claus.

 

I was pretty much the same way.

It made no sense to me and I think it is that way with most kids. It's a game and nothing else.

[AtheistMommy]

AtheistMommy, my dad had a good long think about me and belief in Santa, and he can't remember a single time that I actually believed in Santa Claus. I remember kind of believing in the Tooth Fairy and in the Easter Bunny. I never believed in God or Santa Claus.

 

That seems to be the norm. I thought it was just me. I'm not sure if this is because we all think rationally or if it's actually the majority. I'm saying that because we all share one thing, we are all exChristians. I wonder if this has anything to do with how we reacted to the Santa Myth.

 

What do you think?

[Guest freak]

I'm saying that because we all share one thing, we are all exChristians. I wonder if this has anything to do with how we reacted to the Santa Myth.

 

What do you think?

 

Santa and the others do not tell a child he is unclean and unworthy - A flawed product that will burn for eternity should the straight and narrow not be followed.

 

This is why no-one grew to be a psychopathic monster believing in Santa. What was the evil of the Santa myth? A lump of coal that no kid ever really got.

 

Santa is harmless.

 

Allah, Christ and friends are the ones to worry about.

[AtheistMommy]

I'm saying that because we all share one thing, we are all exChristians. I wonder if this has anything to do with how we reacted to the Santa Myth.

 

What do you think?

 

Santa and the others do not tell a child he is unclean and unworthy - A flawed product that will burn for eternity should the straight and narrow not be followed.

 

This is why no-one grew to be a psychopathic monster believing in Santa. What was the evil of the Santa myth? A lump of coal that no kid ever really got.

 

Santa is harmless.

 

Allah, Christ and friends are the ones to worry about.

 

Ok. How does this relate to us having this in common?

[Asimov]

AtheistMommy, my dad had a good long think about me and belief in Santa, and he can't remember a single time that I actually believed in Santa Claus. I remember kind of believing in the Tooth Fairy and in the Easter Bunny. I never believed in God or Santa Claus.

 

That seems to be the norm. I thought it was just me. I'm not sure if this is because we all think rationally or if it's actually the majority. I'm saying that because we all share one thing, we are all exChristians. I wonder if this has anything to do with how we reacted to the Santa Myth.

 

What do you think?

 

One minor inconsistency is that I was never a Christian. The only guilty one in Shawshank, so to speak.

[Guest freak]

Ok. How does this relate to us having this in common?

 

I think the Santa thing and the Christianity thing differ by so many degrees as to be dissimilar.

 

One is a game played with children and the other is little more than a means of controlling people by intimidation.

[AtheistMommy]

 

One minor inconsistency is that I was never a Christian. The only guilty one in Shawshank, so to speak.

 

LOL! Actually, that would be just one more thing we have in common. Even growing up in a fundy house I never really believed.

[Asimov]

Ok. How does this relate to us having this in common?

 

I think the Santa thing and the Christianity thing differ by so many degrees as to be dissimilar.

 

One is a game played with children and the other is little more than a means of controlling people by intimidation.

 

In a way, it can be "just a game" played by children...depends on how deeply you are given the Santa belief as a kid. Same goes for religion.

 

Similarities are there, but as said in the OP it's just a "primer" to religion.

 

1. It teaches obedience through a punishment/reward system. So what if nobody ever gets the punishment, who says that this is true in Christianity either? Hmmm??? It's all about the threat of punishment in order to get obedience.

 

2. It teaches about sharing and loving and all that gay shit.

 

3. Santa does miracles, so does Jesus.

 

4. There's a group of beings who help Santa make his toys and all that shizzy, Jesus has his Angels.

 

5. The Santa idea teaches oppression of certain emotions and behaviours without really explanaining why. Jesus idea does the same thing.

[AtheistMommy]

Ok. How does this relate to us having this in common?

 

I think the Santa thing and the Christianity thing differ by so many degrees as to be dissimilar.

 

One is a game played with children and the other is little more than a means of controlling people by intimidation.

 

Ok, I understand what you're saying but I'm asking because I'm pretty sure there is a difference in brain activity between a person who is known to blindly believe and a person who questions everything.

 

For example, they have made a connection between frontal lobe damage and extreme belief.

 

I agree that santa has nothing on Jesus and his father. However, Santa can be used as a tool to do the same thing. Any myth can. Like you said, it's about controling people by intimidation.

[Asimov]

 

One minor inconsistency is that I was never a Christian. The only guilty one in Shawshank, so to speak.

 

LOL! Actually, that would be just one more thing we have in common. Even growing up in a fundy house I never really believed.

 

Hehe, and I didn't grow up in a fundy house. My upbringing was pretty freakin neutral. My mom was pretty heavy into God and my dad, who respects Jesus very much, always taught me about him. I went to church a few times.

 

But it wasn't the Bible Belt Bullshit.

[ThePureOne]

I see this as taking out of context what was said. The context was...this kid was REALLY excited to be meeting the REAL buzz lightyear. What kind of idiot would crush the light in that kid's eyes just to say it's not really buzz lightyear.

 

That's right; of course I'm not calling anyone an idiot, it's a hypothetical. He was so excited, if he wants to believe it, I'll let him. That's not lying. If he insists it's a guy in a suit, and I say no, he's real - that would be lying.

 

I don't have time to read the whole thread, but it seems like a case of overthink. I think it more likely to engender resentment if you kill the magic in a child's childhood, than if they question why you let them believe things that weren't true. Hello, you were a kid, that's why. Who wouldn't understand that? If my son gets upset at that, I'd point at him and laugh, then tell him to get over it.

[Asimov]

 

 

 

2. It teaches about sharing and loving and all that gay shit.

 

 

 

 

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Asimov I want to lick you sometimes.

 

But...I'm not a vampire! I could dress up as Spike for you though, hahaha.

[AtheistMommy]

Ok. How does this relate to us having this in common?

 

I think the Santa thing and the Christianity thing differ by so many degrees as to be dissimilar.

 

One is a game played with children and the other is little more than a means of controlling people by intimidation.

 

In a way, it can be "just a game" played by children...depends on how deeply you are given the Santa belief as a kid. Same goes for religion.

 

Similarities are there, but as said in the OP it's just a "primer" to religion.

 

1. It teaches obedience through a punishment/reward system. So what if nobody ever gets the punishment, who says that this is true in Christianity either? Hmmm??? It's all about the threat of punishment in order to get obedience.

 

2. It teaches about sharing and loving and all that gay shit.

 

3. Santa does miracles, so does Jesus.

 

4. There's a group of beings who help Santa make his toys and all that shizzy, Jesus has his Angels.

 

5. The Santa idea teaches oppression of certain emotions and behaviours without really explanaining why. Jesus idea does the same thing.

 

Exactly. Any power can be abused. Parents have power over their children.

[Guest freak]

 

Ok, I understand what you're saying but I'm asking because I'm pretty sure there is a difference in brain activity between a person who is known to blindly believe and a person who questions everything.

 

For example, they have made a connection between frontal lobe damage and extreme belief.

 

I agree that santa has nothing on Jesus and his father. However, Santa can be used as a tool to do the same thing. Any myth can. Like you said, it's about controling people by intimidation.

 

I think that falls enrirely on the kid/adult in question. Some will stop at nothing to follow. If you don't give them a myth, they'll manufacture one of their own. Others, you can present them with concrete proof of something and they'll deny they saw it. People are screwy that way.

 

As for the frontal lobe thing, I had a bullet riccochet inside mine. Still don't believe in Santa. I just have a lot of headaches and a piss-poor short term memory.

 

I don't think anyone actually uses Santa as a tool in that fashion aside from the, "Stop pulling your sister's hair or you'll get a lump of coal" aspect. In that, it is little different than, "Don't make me beat you senseless! Let her go!"

 

I may be wrong though...I was raised by relatively normal people.

[AtheistMommy]

I see this as taking out of context what was said. The context was...this kid was REALLY excited to be meeting the REAL buzz lightyear. What kind of idiot would crush the light in that kid's eyes just to say it's not really buzz lightyear.

 

That's right; of course I'm not calling anyone an idiot, it's a hypothetical. He was so excited, if he wants to believe it, I'll let him. That's not lying. If he insists it's a guy in a suit, and I say no, he's real - that would be lying.

 

I don't have time to read the whole thread, but it seems like a case of overthink. I think it more likely to engender resentment if you kill the magic in a child's childhood, than if they question why you let them believe things that weren't true. Hello, you were a kid, that's why. Who wouldn't understand that? If my son gets upset at that, I'd point at him and laugh, then tell him to get over it.

 

I'm sure on some level he knew. I felt crushed when my mother took my torn blanket away. Funny thing about this is, my son will often pretend to be something like a lion, tiger, or snake, and he'll say, "I'm coming to bite you" and I'll pretend to be afraid and he'll stop pretending and say "Mommy, it's ok, it's just pretend, seee?"

 

A few days ago he was running around the house wearing his Harry Potter costume (yes I let my kids where costumes when ever they feel the urge) he found a stick and pretended to turn everything into something else. It was the cutest thing.

 

No, I get what your saying. But I think there's a difference between going out of your way to make your children believe and just going along with what he already believes.

 

 

I think that falls enrirely on the kid/adult in question. Some will stop at nothing to follow. If you don't give them a myth, they'll manufacture one of their own. Others, you can present them with concrete proof of something and they'll deny they saw it. People are screwy that way.

 

As for the frontal lobe thing, I had a bullet riccochet inside mine. Still don't believe in Santa. I just have a lot of headaches and a piss-poor short term memory.

 

I don't think anyone actually uses Santa as a tool in that fashion aside from the, "Stop pulling your sister's hair or you'll get a lump of coal" aspect. In that, it is little different than, "Don't make me beat you senseless! Let her go!"

 

I may be wrong though...I was raised by relatively normal people.

 

LOL! My father use to say "If you two don't stop fighting I'm going to tie you up face to face until you make up!"

 

I'm sure it does differ from kid to kid, but there are majorities. My grandmother used santa as a threat often. She's say stuff like, "Santa knows what your doing and he's not going to be happy with you." Of course she was a complete fundy and also said "god helps those who help themselves first."

 

What part of the brain where you hit on? If you don't mind me asking.

[Guest freak]

What part of the brain where you hit on? If you don't mind me asking.

 

.22 calibre short entered left cheekbone, riccocheted three times within the frontal lobe before fragmenting. Took the sight from my left eye. Lost my sense of smell. In a coma for a while. Major behavioral difficulties (mostly rage issues) until the swelling went down. This happened 23 years ago. It has kind of devolved from major life-changing event to interesting story.

 

I only mention it because the brain is a thing we cannot begin to understand. The damage in my case was pretty severe. I however lead a very normal life. Only issues I retain are headaches and poor short term memory (Which my Palm Pilot helps with immeasurably)

 

I did not seek out Santa afterwards. I did seek out God. Only time in my life I ever did. I just wanted the pain to go away.

It didn't. So I instead discovered Demerol.

[ThePureOne]

I'm sure on some level he knew. I felt crushed when my mother took my torn blanket away. Funny thing about this is, my son will often pretend to be something like a lion, tiger, or snake, and he'll say, "I'm coming to bite you" and I'll pretend to be afraid and he'll stop pretending and say "Mommy, it's ok, it's just pretend, seee?"

 

Kids are funny that way, it's not black and white. Some things they know are pretend, while they swallow equally nonsensical things. My friend's 7 yr old daughter was over for my son's birthday, which Batman attended. My son thought it was Batman, but she later confessed to her dad that she knew it wasn't the *real* Batman - because his hands were too effeminate! LOL. Yet she presumably believes the "real" Batman is out there somewhere. She thought the real Spiderman was dancing around singing in a show at Universal Studios. And she's also convinced Tinkerbell visits her every night. So it's a slow process.

 

A few days ago he was running around the house wearing his Harry Potter costume (yes I let my kids where costumes when ever they feel the urge) he found a stick and pretended to turn everything into something else. It was the cutest thing.

 

No, I get what your saying. But I think there's a difference between going out of your way to make your children believe and just going along with what he already believes.

 

I think that's the point - it's OK to let them believe things sometimes, and rarely necessary to override it. Insisting in crushing all make-believe may stifle imagination and creativity, and apart from that it just sounds so dull. It's also possible to overdo it and become a "fundy" version of an atheist. The beauty of atheism is that it doesn't have to be forced, it doesn't have to be some life-consuming doctrine that needs to be beaten into kids for their own good. Don't fall into a different version of the trap religious fundies are in, atheists have the ability to let their kids be truly free. Even if it means believing in Santa for a while.