A forum to discuss how ex-Christians have dealt with family members, replaced the church as a place of community, reactions of your family, friends, church, acquaintances upon learning of the de-conversion, or anything else relevant to the Ex-Christian Life.
The bulk of science does not support belief in a deity, or does it? This is an open discussion area to hone your skills at supporting and understanding the various positions. Feel free to post any links of value in this important topic.
This section is confined to serious and formal debate. New topics will not appear in this section until approved by a moderator. For best results, contact a moderator before attempting to post a new topic in this section.
Not even close.
- 99.99% of the universe is completely uninhabitable - in fact the conditions would kill us instantly. The amounts of radiation, high temperatures, and a host of other factors make it nearly impossible for us to exist anywhere else.
- As you already pointed out, it's all going to end in one giant, pointless, chaotic oblivion.
- Genetic diseases are often caused by genetic copying errors. Autoimmune diseases eat us from the inside out. Who would design a system that can and does kill itself?
- I think Neil Tyson pointed this out, but what kind of designer would have waste management and reproduction come from the same area? Seems like a counter intuitive, dangerous, and easy medium to spread disease.
- We eat, drink, and breathe out of the same hole, guaranteeing that some percentage of us will choke to death....etc, etc.
The list goes on and on!
It seems highly unlikely that our universe was designed by any intelligent force who cares for humanity. Its much more probable that what we interpret as design is actually the result of natural selection and evolution.
Yes I am still living with them, but its very unlikely that they will kick me out. I have fully disclosed my views on what they believe, and although they do not like it they have over time come to accept it. They're good people, just misguided.
Without meaning to pry (but quite possibly succeeding), are you still living with your parents or do you otherwise rely on them for financial support? If yes, do you think it is more likely than not that they will threaten/limit/terminate your living/financial security if you completely disclose your rejection of their religious beliefs?
You just have to have faith. By faith you can believe that even though God hates Esau eternally, there is no darkness in him at all.
1 John 1 : 5
This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.
But if you use reason and logic to try and understand scripture, you will go astray!
Reason and logic will tell you that if God is light, then his eternal hatred for Esau can't be darkness - it must be light.
So God's hate is God's light.
Do you see how reason and logic can lead you into error?
Use faith, not reason. Use faith, not logic.
Don't think - just believe!
Hi SeaJay, I understand this. I faced it, too.
At one point, I forget when, I found the question changed in my mind. When I was a Christian already, it seemed obvious that the choices were - is Christianity true or false? Should i remain a Christian or should I leave?
But there is not a single contrary to Christian. We're taught to think of the world as Christian vs. non-Christian, as though non-Christian is a single thing. So then we ask ourselves, how much would it take for me not to be a Christian? Where's the line in the sand? How many pieces can I stop believing literally and still have the core?
But at some point I found myself stepping mentally out of that either-or way of thinking and instead, approaching the question as though I wasn't already committed to being a Christian. OK, out of all the religions out there, what's the basis for Christians' saying theirs is the true one and all the others are false? Show me what you got. What's the evidence or argument that I should be a Christian?
And all the support systems for it just came up short. What's the ground for thinking the core is solid?
Why should anyone conclude that it is the true system of belief? "Because you'll go to hell if you don't" is not an answer that distinguishes Christianity from other religions that also threaten eternal punishment. Therefore it doesn't lend any credibility.
(1) If you became convinced that Christianity was untrue, but then later decided you had been wrong, then if the deity refused to take you back, that god, far from being a loving father, would be a monstrous asshole. Certainly not one I'd want to spend eternity with.
(2) When people start using reason and conclude that the god of the Bible does not exist, they inevitably start to wonder how they ever could have believed. At that point changing one's mind would only be a result of wishful thinking. In the event that some earth-shattering event caused a person to reason that god exists after all, then I'd refer you to point #1 above.