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    1. Special Announcements

      Moderator announcement area for sharing items of interest.

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      A collection of frequently asked questions and topics that have been already addressed on this site. This section was created with the express intention of assisting newcomers.

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      Help encourage someone else who is trying to deprogram themselves from religion - tell them how you did it or are doing it.

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      A forum to discuss how ex-Christians have dealt with family members, replaced the church as a place of community, reactions of your family, friends, church, acquaintances upon learning of the de-conversion, or anything else relevant to the Ex-Christian Life.

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      This area is for those who have left Christianity for another form of theism or spirituality (Deism, Paganism, Wicca, Great Spirit, The Force, Buddhism, etc.).
       

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    8. General Christian Theological Issues

      The Bible calls all those who do not believe in its god a fool.

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    9. Science vs. Religion

      The bulk of science does not support belief in a deity, or does it? This is an open discussion area to hone your skills at supporting and understanding the various positions. Feel free to post any links of value in this important topic.

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    12. Colosseum

      Or Coliseum, if you prefer. This section is for those members who would like to see and participate in informal, yet serious, debate. All posts are expected to remain "on topic" at all times.

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    13. The Lion's Den

      Attention "True Christians" and former Christians.

      Before posting in this section, please read the Lion's Den Rules.

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      Place to post stories, art, poetry, etc. that is done by members.

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  • Recent Status Updates

    • TylerJ

      I thought that this was a very interesting Ted Talk. 
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    • HereticZero

      I want to visit Europe but not sure where to start?
       
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    • Travi

      I miss the days when I was not sickly. I feel like I am reliving my childhood all over again.
       
      Oh you know, the childhood I didn't have because I had to mature much faster than other kids because I had to learn to treat my asthma and lung issues at a young age. Alternative was death. 
      · 1 reply
    • LogicalFallacy

      "Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off!" Form Editor of New Scientist.
       
      Amen brother, amen!
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    • TylerJ

      Finally got my hands on a copy of The God Delusion by Richard Dawson. This book was like the anti-bible growing up. I'm excited to read it. Heard that it is very good.
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  • Recent Posts

    • Welcome back Smokey. This is a terrible story. I am so sorry to say this but I would be doing everything possible to get out of that environment. You'll have to be the one who decides if you can live like this. I, as a woman, have started from 'ground zero' twice in my life and I am here to tell you that it is possible to start a new life. If you stay here on Ex-c, maybe we can help you with your religious confusion. Please keep us posted.    (hug)
    • Sorry to see such a sad story. The marriage is dead, don't let it kill you, too. You can never be okay as long as you let evil people rule your life and disrespect you to the extreme. I wish you well. Now, get out!
    • G'day,    It's been a very long time since I've posted. Where I stand is that I'm agnostic and not Christian anymore. But due to suffering from OCD, sometimes I fear religious content.    So to cut a long story short, I am living with my wife again for a last chance at a broken marriage and her full on bible bashing pentecostalist parents have moved in. It was supposed to be for a month but it's been several now. My father in law has brought with him almost twenty five copies of the KJ bible with different covers and he leaves some of them all over the house which gives me the sh*ts. Sometimes he takes over the TV and watches Christian movies up very loud. I have managed to keep the peace until tonight and I spose I need advice on it please.    So earlier in the night, my FIL had some Christian movie playing loud on the TV and I was in the same room on my Lappy trying to get some work done. The movie was starting to get to me and I looked up and saw some scene where a husband then wife was threatened by a Christian mob for not giving ALL the proceeds of the sale of their house to the church (presumably), the Christian shouted at them that they'd lied to God, then blood started running from their noses and they were dead and the mob coldly buried one then the other (before the wife was killed, she was told her husband was killed by god for his lies and buried, wonderful). Apparently this is a bible story but I don't recall reading it as a kid? I lost it and shouted at my FIL "This is like a f*cking horror movie and those innocent people were killed for not giving all their money to a cult!". Not very diplomatic of me I know. So he lost the plot and started shouting at me. Amongst the things he said was that I "saw it out of content" and that I needed to get down on my hands and knees then beg and apologise to almighty God for my blasphemy. He implied that God could strike down anyone and it was actually quite scary. I took it as a religious threat to conform and it stired up old fears that I hadn't felt since when I was more Christian.    So I'm typing this on my phone in the garage, my wife wants me to stay in a hotel for upsetting her father. I wonder if the marriage is actually over.    I still haven't got my head around all this but could someone please advise on the situation? What should I do? And has anyone ever tried to put the fear of God in you and threaten retribution? What are you thoughts on this particular bible story? What's made it worse is that my FIL has triggered my OCD and I am worried something is going to happen to me. My PIL are the kind if Christians that would probably enjoy someone being struck down for daring to challenge the bible. Thankyou for any advice and help folks.    -Smoke  
    • Thanks for your contributions, guys. I'll get back in several days. Cheers, f
    • As far as what the actual term 'evil' might mean, I don't think either point of view can be proven right or wrong (believer or nonbeliever) because there are so many meanings the Hebrew word can have (morally evil, disaster, etc).    That said, the word evil is used in opposition to the word good ('well-being' in Hebrew). Well being doesn't really have connotations of moral evil, well being means things like hearty, hale, healthy, whole, robust, etc. So it seems to me that evil used in this context means disaster, calamity, misery, etc, and only to the person who is rebellious against God. I don't think it is about creating evil in a moral sense. It's more similar to 'Dis-ease' being in opposition to 'Ease' than evil being in opposition to good. At least that's what I think.
    • So... If a religious person thinks that there exist not one case where the ownership of one human by another human is allowable/moral, they are wrong.  Reference Exodus Chapter 21.
    •   In the case of Jesus there's very deliberate, conscious, and willful copying of known mythological themes from the near east towards the aim of presenting something that people will respond to. It's a very consciously designed savior figure, set up towards the aims of proselytizing converts. It's evolution, in that sense, was one of consciously adding more and more to the myth as it rolled along. I don't think anyone could get the wrong idea about Jesus by suggesting that he's a copy of the god-men that came before him.    The points that were deliberately copied, such as the example above about the virgin birth motif, carry meaning. And some one had to sit down and decide to add that meaning to the story, because it wasn't there from the outset. They had to recognize a need to add the virgin birth motif, probably simply to add more dimension to a solar allegory which hadn't yet had the virgin birth motif attached to it. That or simply the desire to give Jesus a virgin birth like Kings were thought to have had in the pagan world. In any event, it wasn't Jewish. It came from someone wanting the story to appeal to a certain audience in a specific way. So Matthew had to search out something that looked like it could be postulated as a prophecy of his virgin birth which brought him to quote mine / midrash Isaiah completely out of it's original context. And then insist that Jews ought to buy it, when it wasn't Jewish at all and Isaiah didn't prophecy anything of the sort.    The above is an example of my astronomer priests manipulating their way consciously through religious creation, perspective. You can pretty much reverse engineer what likely went into the thought processes involved in creating these myths from previously existing motifs. It evolved, but very consciously towards particular aims. And they were not using anything all that original, they were copying pre-existing motifs. That shouldn't be a dirty word, I don't think. It plainly describes what myth makers were doing as they set out to write various, and conflicting Jesus stories. 
    •   It must have been something like that. 
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