Defending Hell

[Thumbelina]

Ah, yes. The never ending works vs grace debate. Ephesians says we are saved by faith through the grace of God not of works least no man can boast,.......but, but,.....but James, the Lords brother, says no, no, NO! We are saved by faith BUT not by faith alone.

 

And the faithful say there are no contradictions in scripture. Yep, noooooo contradictions or inconsistencies in scripture. Nope , not a single solitary one. The Bible is most definitely inerrant. I know that's true cause the preacher said so, and he's been to college so he knows what he's saying is true!? Yep, he sure does.

 

 

 

 

 

There are NO contradictions, only truth misunderstood (2 Peter 3:16). I tell bible critics that they need to look at biblical passages in CONTEXT.

 

Who wrote the letter to the Ephesians? Ephesians is an EPISTLE, Paul was addressing a particular audience with a particular misunderstanding. Remember Paul was a Pharisee, the Jewish nation had basically turned God's sacrificial system into a system of salvation by WORKS. Paul was letting them know that mankind is saved by Grace alone, through faith alone. Man's righteousness are as filthy sanitary napkins (Isaiah 64:6). Our righteousness is usually fraught with selfishness. Christians ought to believe in Christ our righteousness. He came in the flesh & never sinned! He's the only human to ever do that. Christ's righteousness was imputed to mankind (He made the provision for all to be saved (John 3:16); all who believe in Him will be covered, theologians call that Justification. However Christ imparts His righteousness to believers (gives them His strength to obey Him) as a fruit of faith- folk do what is right because it is right & because they love God not in order to be saved.

 

That theme is throughout scripture, one example is this PARABLE in Luke 17:7-10: 7But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat? 8And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink? 9Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not. 10So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

 

There's a biblical law that states: By beholding you become changed. The bible says to be perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect which basically means to do what Jesus would do. Paul was not negating the need for works; he was just emphasizing that works without faith is useless & can't save us.

 

 

 

The EPISTLE of James had another target audience, it was to people who thought that since we are saved by faith alone that there's no need for works. James was not negating the need for faith, he was emphasizing that faith ought to be accompanied by corresponding works. God is love, love is always active, never passive; believers ought to be like God (selfless), He is either creating or redeeming or both. The bible says that God HATES the doctrine of the Nicolaitans (see Revelation 2:6, 2:15). Eh, that's basically a belief like what they had in France during the French Revolution, except the Nicolaitans believed in God. Even the devils believe and tremble but they are NOT obedient, & that's exactly what that damnable doctrine teaches-- that one can do what thou wilt & there'll be no consequences. The bible says believers are saved by faith alone but will be judged by their works -- see the parable in Luke :7-10 again; also see Revelation 22:12.

[Thumbelina]

 

"According to biblical theology, christ is god, therefore we are already in christ (god) just as the bible states it"

 

No, all Creation are of Christ-meaning He is our Creator but only believers/sons (Romans 8:14) can be IN Christ. Christ told Nicodemus that he had to be born AGAIN. Paul was stating that since God made us we might as well be grateful and love Him in return .

 

So, do you, like... Use a strap on, or something? ... Kinky... Wait a minute, does that mean those catholic priests where doing it backwards?

 

And Yeah, might as well love a being that supposedly created you exactly the way he wanted, then gets furious at you for being exactly like he made you... But we can't possibly lay any responsibility for anything on god, no way, he's absolutely not responsible for everything that has happened because of his supposed actions... Right?

 

 

 

 

God made man perfect, upright; man used his freedom of choice to disobey God so He didn't make us sinful. God took/takes the initiative in rescuing His children- see the parable of the lost sheep. He feels responsible for us but He can't save us if we reject His offer.

[Thumbelina]

 

Hi Astreja, we haven't "seen" each other in such a long time & you don't even offer me a handshake?

 

God is the judge. Having Faith is what brings Him close. Rightly understanding His Word encourages faith. Jesus' blood will cover the redeemed so they won't be consumed in God's presence.

 

God is cloaked but eventually He will unveil Himself. That's what the bible narrative says.

 

Well, that doesn't help Me in the least.  I seem to be neurologically incapable of generating faith in the religious sense, I think the Bible is total nonsense, and getting covered in blood from a proxy human sacrifice is right out.

 

Yes ma'am, I know you feel that way.

 

Hope this summer's been good to you-- you garden, right?

[Thumbelina]

 

"According to biblical theology, christ is god, therefore we are already in christ (god) just as the bible states it"

 

No, all Creation are of Christ-meaning He is our Creator but only believers/sons (Romans 8:14) can be IN Christ. Christ told Nicodemus that he had to be born AGAIN. Paul was stating that since God made us we might as well be grateful and love Him in return .

Wrong again. I hate to keep arguing a mythological book, but the bible clearly states that we are IN god. Not that he simply is our creator. You cannot discard scripture to fit your own beliefs. Unfortunately this is why we have so many denominations. People like you interpret the bible according to their own desires and believe they have the truth while the rest of us don't have a clue. 

 

Jesus is the father, isaiah 9:6. For unto us a child is born (Jesus), unto us a son is given(Jesus): and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father(god), The Prince of Peace.

 

If we are in god, then jesus, also being god, we are in jesus as well. But this is where the bible paints itself into a corner with yet another of the over 1001 contradictions. 

 

You really need to stop privately interpreting the the bible and maybe get a commentary to help you. I recommend john gill or matthew henry commentaries.

 

 

 

I respectfully disagree, the CONTEXT of the text you cited in Acts 17:28 shows Paul addressing Pagans who were obviously responding to that measure of faith that God gives to EVERY man (Romans 12:3). He was simply pointing them to the God that created all of us and sustains our lives and that God loves them and wants a relationship with them.

 

 

 

I suggest you read Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary et al for Acts 17:28 http://biblehub.com/acts/17-28.htm

it says what I said but he says it better

 

 

 

In Christ is theological jargon for saying we accept Him as our savior, we are His disciples, we're following Him, abiding in Him etc. What Paul was saying is that ALL humans are all of Christ, meaning that He made us.

 

The bible is not contradictory, I hope you guys see that one day because it sure affects the law of: by beholding you become changed-- if God is seen as mean , contradictory & confusing then people won't bother with Him & that is exactly what that old devil wants.

[TheOutsider]

 

 

"According to biblical theology, christ is god, therefore we are already in christ (god) just as the bible states it"

 

No, all Creation are of Christ-meaning He is our Creator but only believers/sons (Romans 8:14) can be IN Christ. Christ told Nicodemus that he had to be born AGAIN. Paul was stating that since God made us we might as well be grateful and love Him in return .

 

So, do you, like... Use a strap on, or something? ... Kinky... Wait a minute, does that mean those catholic priests where doing it backwards?

 

And Yeah, might as well love a being that supposedly created you exactly the way he wanted, then gets furious at you for being exactly like he made you... But we can't possibly lay any responsibility for anything on god, no way, he's absolutely not responsible for everything that has happened because of his supposed actions... Right?

 

 

 

 

God made man perfect, upright; man used his freedom of choice to disobey God so He didn't make us sinful. God took/takes the initiative in rescuing His children- see the parable of the lost sheep. He feels responsible for us but He can't save us if we reject His offer.

 

 

But he made us, knowing exactly what every single one of us would do, he knew full well what his plan would entail, he knew exactly how pissed off at us he would get, he holds sole responsibility for every single thing that has ever happened. He doesn't get to be mad at us for doing exactly what he wanted us to do. And he certainly doesn't get to judge us for things we had no choice in, things he made us to do. And don't pull that free will bullshit, Exodus, "the pharaoh"... God stopped him from allowing the non existent Jewish slaves do their thing, the thing he would have otherwise let them do if it weren't for Yahweh's intervention.

 

At least, according to your myths. But seriously, I'm really hung up on the strap on thing...

[Thumbelina]

God does not let anything thwart His plans, creating humans whom he foreknew would nail him to a tree, naked as a jaybird, did not deter Him in the least. God's wrath is not fickle like humans', it's consequential & it is just/right. Yes, the bible says in times of ignorance God winks & that if we don't see certain sins (not willful blindness, actual ignorance), then He won't hold people responsible for those. God did not make Pharaoh sin, Pharaoh CHOSE to sin but God permitted/willed all the events. When God initiates contact with us we are either hardened or softened (Hebrews 3:15), but it's our choice!

 

Yeah, if I thought God was like how you guys think He is I probably would join you but I see Him as loving and perfect.

[mymistake]

 

 

 

 

There are NO contradictions, only truth misunderstood (2 Peter 3:16). I tell bible critics that they need to look at biblical passages in CONTEXT.

 

Who wrote the letter to the Ephesians? Ephesians is an EPISTLE, Paul was addressing a particular audience with a particular misunderstanding. Remember Paul was a Pharisee, the Jewish nation had basically turned God's sacrificial system into a system of salvation by WORKS. Paul was letting them know that mankind is saved by Grace alone, through faith alone. Man's righteousness are as filthy sanitary napkins (Isaiah 64:6). Our righteousness is usually fraught with selfishness. Christians ought to believe in Christ our righteousness. He came in the flesh & never sinned! He's the only human to ever do that. Christ's righteousness was imputed to mankind (He made the provision for all to be saved (John 3:16); all who believe in Him will be covered, theologians call that Justification. However Christ imparts His righteousness to believers (gives them His strength to obey Him) as a fruit of faith- folk do what is right because it is right & because they love God not in order to be saved.

 

That theme is throughout scripture, one example is this PARABLE in Luke 17:7-10: 7But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat? 8And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink? 9Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not. 10So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

 

There's a biblical law that states: By beholding you become changed. The bible says to be perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect which basically means to do what Jesus would do. Paul was not negating the need for works; he was just emphasizing that works without faith is useless & can't save us.

 

 

 

The EPISTLE of James had another target audience, it was to people who thought that since we are saved by faith alone that there's no need for works. James was not negating the need for faith, he was emphasizing that faith ought to be accompanied by corresponding works. God is love, love is always active, never passive; believers ought to be like God (selfless), He is either creating or redeeming or both. The bible says that God HATES the doctrine of the Nicolaitans (see Revelation 2:6, 2:15). Eh, that's basically a belief like what they had in France during the French Revolution, except the Nicolaitans believed in God. Even the devils believe and tremble but they are NOT obedient, & that's exactly what that damnable doctrine teaches-- that one can do what thou wilt & there'll be no consequences. The bible says believers are saved by faith alone but will be judged by their works -- see the parable in Luke :7-10 again; also see Revelation 22:12.

 

 

 

Of course there are thousands of contradictions in the Bible.  There is no context that can fix that mess.  I think deep down inside you know the truth and that is why you won't engage me.  You read into Paul anything you want in an effort to twist the Bible to suit your needs.  But objectively the Bible is not what Christians claim.  Christian theology is nonsense.  There is no way to make sense of it.

 

Good, bad, sin, righteousness, evil, moral, ethics are all supposedly choices God makes.  When God decides that wives shall submit to husbands then that choice is what makes it good.  When God decides that everyone shall hate gay people then that choice God makes is what decides.  There is nor rhyme or reason behind God's choice.  Raping a unpledged woman is only a crime against her father, according to God's choice.  But the God gets a betrothed woman pregnant which is clearly a crime against her husband only it isn't because God made the choice that God gets an exception.

 

The whole Bible is nonsense. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I respectfully disagree, the CONTEXT of the text you cited in Acts 17:28 shows Paul addressing Pagans who were obviously responding to that measure of faith that God gives to EVERY man (Romans 12:3). He was simply pointing them to the God that created all of us and sustains our lives and that God loves them and wants a relationship with them.

 

 

 

I suggest you read Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary et al for Acts 17:28 http://biblehub.com/acts/17-28.htm

it says what I said but he says it better

 

 

In Christ is theological jargon fo

r saying we accept Him as our savior, we are His disciples, we're following Him, abiding in Him etc. What Paul was saying is that ALL humans are all of Christ, meaning that He made us.

 

The bible is not contradictory, I hope you guys see that one day because it sure affects the law of: by beholding you become changed-- if God is seen as mean , contradictory & confusing then people won't bother with Him & that is exactly what that old devil wants.

 

 

 

If God wants a relationship with people then God wouldn't hide and wouldn't use prophets to send us messages.  An all powerful God could send e-mails or pick up the phone.  Instead God choses to impersonate a fake religion.  That doesn't make sense.  It's nonsense.  How are we suppose to know Christianity is any better than the thousands of false religions that look just as good as Christianity?

[midniterider]

God sends us to hell because we are his children and he loves us. Haha.

[mymistake]

God sends us to hell because we are his children and he lives us. Haha.

 

 

Perhaps this is why God commands that women like Thumbellina should remain silent and never teach men.   But if Thumbellina wants to live in open rebellion against God that is between her and God.

[midniterider]

Hell is not eternal, God is. His presence is a consuming fire (you may look up the texts if you wish) when God unveils Himself completely then all who do wickedly will be consumed/destroyed. Every man will be awarded based on their works; since no man is inherently immortal then their wicked works are not everlasting, therefore they can't burn forever. That's such an evil teaching that makes God a monster!

No offense Thumb but God really needs to tell us himself. Otherwise it's just hearsay and neither I nor Judge Judy accept hearsay.The bible is hearsay.

[yunea]

No contradictions, eh? Then what happened at Easter?

[midniterider]

God is the fire, no one can quench Him. See Isaiah 33:14-15. The righteous can walk in the fire but the wicked will be consumed. The three Hebrew boys in the fiery furnace described in Daniel was a sort of example of this. They did not die or smell of smoke but the other people who threw them in died. Jesus came & covered those three boys because of their faith.

Bah, thats old testament...it's obsolete. Haha

[TheOutsider]

 

God does not let anything thwart His plans, creating humans whom he foreknew would nail him to a tree, naked as a jaybird, did not deter Him in the least. God's wrath is not fickle like humans', it's consequential & it is just/right. Yes, the bible says in times of ignorance God winks & that if we don't see certain sins (not willful blindness, actual ignorance), then He won't hold people responsible for those. God did not make Pharaoh sin, Pharaoh CHOSE to sin but God permitted/willed all the events. When God initiates contact with us we are either hardened or softened (Hebrews 3:15), but it's our choice!

 

Yeah, if I thought God was like how you guys think He is I probably would join you but I see Him as loving and perfect.

 

I don't think you know what choice means... Yahweh did make pharaoh sin, by hardening his hart, intentionally, actively, god made pharaohs heart hard... That's what he did... Pharaoh had no choice... How are you not understanding that? Here, take off your god glasses and reconsider what I said, reconsider what exactly your god has supposedly done according to your myths. Then come back and tell us how loving and perfect he is... Oh who am I kidding, that's never going to happen is it?...

 

You do know there is absolutely no evidence to support any of the claims made by your religion right? I see your god exactly how he is presented by your religions lore, I just don't ignore any of the fucked up shit he's done, or let happen, and is ultimately responsible for. Because he kicked everything off... Knowing... Exactly... What... Would... Happen... But don't be confused, I don't actually believe your god has done anything, because I don't believe he exists. I'm just entertaining the idea in order to continue this, whatever this is.

 

But for the love of all that's unholy, I need to know what you are going to use when Jesus let's you inside him... My unsatisfied curiosity is driving me mad... Or maybe that's just Dread Lord Cthulhu stirring in his slumber...

[midniterider]

 

There are NO contradictions, only truth misunderstood (2 Peter 3:16). I tell bible critics that they need to look at biblical passages in CONTEXT.

 

All units, standby! Thumb is going to have a stroke.

[midniterider]

 

 

 

"According to biblical theology, christ is god, therefore we are already in christ (god) just as the bible states it"

 

No, all Creation are of Christ-meaning He is our Creator but only believers/sons (Romans 8:14) can be IN Christ. Christ told Nicodemus that he had to be born AGAIN. Paul was stating that since God made us we might as well be grateful and love Him in return .

 

So, do you, like... Use a strap on, or something? ... Kinky... Wait a minute, does that mean those catholic priests where doing it backwards?

 

And Yeah, might as well love a being that supposedly created you exactly the way he wanted, then gets furious at you for being exactly like he made you... But we can't possibly lay any responsibility for anything on god, no way, he's absolutely not responsible for everything that has happened because of his supposed actions... Right?

 

 

Act excited.  Jesus is cuming soon.

 

 

Eh, I mean, the blood thing is kinda doing it for me, but the gay sex thing with a zombie is really killing it... Maybe there just needs to be more naked blood soaked twenty-something women in that imagery? Still, I don't know if I could actually get into that... Then again, I'm not a believer/son, so maybe that has something to do with it?

 

 

I need to take epistle.

[midniterider]

 

I respectfully disagree, the CONTEXT of the text you cited in Acts 17:28 shows Paul addressing Pagans who were obviously responding to that measure of faith that God gives to EVERY man (Romans 12:3). He was simply pointing them to the God that created all of us and sustains our lives and that God loves them and wants a relationship with them.

 

 

 

It's not the words that you read in the bible that are important , its the CONTEXT. And the context is your personal view of what's going on in the surrounding passages. Or you can read the commentary of some apologist and agree with his opinion about what the context is. 

[midniterider]

 

God sends us to hell because we are his children and he lives us. Haha.

 

 

Perhaps this is why God commands that women like Thumbellina should remain silent and never teach men.   But if Thumbellina wants to live in open rebellion against God that is between her and God.

 

 

1 Timothy 2:12 , I believe, Thumb. 

 

(I know, I know, I must have taken that out of context because that is a simple way to reject a non-believer's argument. The words of the bible mean zip zilch nada. Only the context you invent)

[TheOutsider]

 

 

 

 

"According to biblical theology, christ is god, therefore we are already in christ (god) just as the bible states it"

 

No, all Creation are of Christ-meaning He is our Creator but only believers/sons (Romans 8:14) can be IN Christ. Christ told Nicodemus that he had to be born AGAIN. Paul was stating that since God made us we might as well be grateful and love Him in return .

 

So, do you, like... Use a strap on, or something? ... Kinky... Wait a minute, does that mean those catholic priests where doing it backwards?

 

And Yeah, might as well love a being that supposedly created you exactly the way he wanted, then gets furious at you for being exactly like he made you... But we can't possibly lay any responsibility for anything on god, no way, he's absolutely not responsible for everything that has happened because of his supposed actions... Right?

 

 

Act excited.  Jesus is cuming soon.

 

 

Eh, I mean, the blood thing is kinda doing it for me, but the gay sex thing with a zombie is really killing it... Maybe there just needs to be more naked blood soaked twenty-something women in that imagery? Still, I don't know if I could actually get into that... Then again, I'm not a believer/son, so maybe that has something to do with it?

 

 

I need to take epistle.

 

 

Never heard of it, is it like Viagra? I guess that would solve half the problem. Maybe shrooms or something would solve the other half? Still, I don't even know if I'd want to get to a state where that would seem like a good idea... You know, at least Lucy Fur is pretty chill about you doing your own thing at these kinda parties. Jesus just has to make it all about him, every time...

[sdelsolray]

 

Ah, yes. The never ending works vs grace debate. Ephesians says we are saved by faith through the grace of God not of works least no man can boast,.......but, but,.....but James, the Lords brother, says no, no, NO! We are saved by faith BUT not by faith alone.

 

And the faithful say there are no contradictions in scripture. Yep, noooooo contradictions or inconsistencies in scripture. Nope , not a single solitary one. The Bible is most definitely inerrant. I know that's true cause the preacher said so, and he's been to college so he knows what he's saying is true!? Yep, he sure does.

 

 

 

 

 

There are NO contradictions, only truth misunderstood (2 Peter 3:16). I tell bible critics that they need to look at biblical passages in CONTEXT.

 

Who wrote the letter to the Ephesians? Ephesians is an EPISTLE, Paul was addressing a particular audience with a particular misunderstanding. Remember Paul was a Pharisee, the Jewish nation had basically turned God's sacrificial system into a system of salvation by WORKS. Paul was letting them know that mankind is saved by Grace alone, through faith alone. Man's righteousness are as filthy sanitary napkins (Isaiah 64:6). Our righteousness is usually fraught with selfishness. Christians ought to believe in Christ our righteousness. He came in the flesh & never sinned! He's the only human to ever do that. Christ's righteousness was imputed to mankind (He made the provision for all to be saved (John 3:16); all who believe in Him will be covered, theologians call that Justification. However Christ imparts His righteousness to believers (gives them His strength to obey Him) as a fruit of faith- folk do what is right because it is right & because they love God not in order to be saved.

 

That theme is throughout scripture, one example is this PARABLE in Luke 17:7-10: 7But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat? 8And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink? 9Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not. 10So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

 

There's a biblical law that states: By beholding you become changed. The bible says to be perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect which basically means to do what Jesus would do. Paul was not negating the need for works; he was just emphasizing that works without faith is useless & can't save us.

 

 

 

The EPISTLE of James had another target audience, it was to people who thought that since we are saved by faith alone that there's no need for works. James was not negating the need for faith, he was emphasizing that faith ought to be accompanied by corresponding works. God is love, love is always active, never passive; believers ought to be like God (selfless), He is either creating or redeeming or both. The bible says that God HATES the doctrine of the Nicolaitans (see Revelation 2:6, 2:15). Eh, that's basically a belief like what they had in France during the French Revolution, except the Nicolaitans believed in God. Even the devils believe and tremble but they are NOT obedient, & that's exactly what that damnable doctrine teaches-- that one can do what thou wilt & there'll be no consequences. The bible says believers are saved by faith alone but will be judged by their works -- see the parable in Luke :7-10 again; also see Revelation 22:12.

 

 

The Apologist™ speaks.  And if we wait long enough, this poster will tell us the part about how she is one of the Elect™, a really special person.  That part is funny and pathetic at the same time.

[mymistake]

 

 

I respectfully disagree, the CONTEXT of the text you cited in Acts 17:28 shows Paul addressing Pagans who were obviously responding to that measure of faith that God gives to EVERY man (Romans 12:3). He was simply pointing them to the God that created all of us and sustains our lives and that God loves them and wants a relationship with them.

 

 

 

It's not the words that you read in the bible that are important , its the CONTEXT. And the context is your personal view of what's going on in the surrounding passages. Or you can read the commentary of some apologist and agree with his opinion about what the context is. 

 

 

 

 

If God is such a great writer then why is it so hard to find the right context to make the Bible look good and so easy to find all the wrong contexts that make God and the Bible look false?

[midniterider]

God made man perfect, upright; man used his freedom of choice to disobey God so He didn't make us sinful.

 

If God made man perfect then man would not have make any mistakes. Therefore, God's creation was not perfect. Boom, God failed.

 

[Jeff]

No contradictions?

You are willfully ignorant then, as there are so many it will make your head spin if you read a good textual critic who actually knows what the bible is saying in all of the original languages.

Even in English it can't be reconciled.

The crucifixion. The resurrection. The exodus. Creation.

Let's just start with those. Read them again and watch the timelines and multiple parties involved.

Wasting my breath on you.

Read Ehrman if you dare

[Astreja]

Hope this summer's been good to you-- you garden, right?

 

Yup.  We've had a lot of rain but also a lot of warm and sunny days, so most of the garden's doing okay.

[zuker12]

Whats the point with freedom of choice (and subsequently getting mad at people using it) IF man is supposed to be perfect and upright? This seems like an arbitrary drama. What were the Adam and Eve's choices or possibilities, what use is this free will for? Is it mainly only evil except when you choose between eating apples or oranges for breakfast?

 

How can man be perfect and upright and yet sin ? In the initial state. How is the fall even possible with these starting factors? IF that was meant to be then by extension arent we doing things the right way?

[Thumbelina]

God sends us to hell because we are his children and he loves us. Haha.

 

You didn't even greet me, what's up with that?

How are you midnite?

 

Yes, if your favorite pet contracted rabies and is rabid you'll have to put it out of its misery for its own good as well as the good of society, though it WILL hurt your heart to do so.