sdelsolray Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 The God of the BIble clearly changed his views on circumcision when he decided that and other pieces of the OT law no longer needed to be followed You have made several assertions that this particular god has changed his views, mind or position based on what human societies have adopted as permissible living standards and choices. A simpler and more direct explanation exists: one that can be based on actual empirical evidence. The god of a particular society is an imaginary construct and the human society changes the character of that god to fit the ever changing societal morals/goals/aspirations of that society. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 ... I am however convinced that what I see is more than what the positive mutations of evolution gave humans. I am convinced that what I see is the grace of God. Some of it is the grace of God, some of it could be accomplished by the power of the human mind and heart. I can't prove this nor do I speak about it with certainty but rather what I am convinced of. ... No evidence, but you are convinced. Just a strong hunch. Wishful thinking. That sound like standard religious faith to me. ... But am I convinced of the existence of God and the grace of God, and even the goodness of God? As of now, YES. Just a heads up. Religious faith does not get much mileage around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Also, just because lot is just, doesn't mean he isn't an idiot or that God approved of his stupidity in making such a decision. Lot isn't just an idiot, he is unjust. If the bible claims Lot is just then give an example of him doing unjust things, then it is contradicting within the same story. Lot's notable trait is he is good. Lot's only actions I can remember were offering his daughters to an angry rape mob. Then having drunken sex with them later. That's poor writing on the author's part. Don't just tell the reader someone is good. Write about them doing good things to show us that they are good. In this case the author just told us Lot was good, then shows him doing bad things. We're supposed to just agree that he was good because it says so. I don't see how you are coming to the conclusion that Lot's wife went to a good place. For all we know she could be burning in hell right now for that transgression. We don't have the ability to know because it doesn't say. Actually if there is no afterlife, you can die today and go to a place of no longer caring about anything ever again. All suffering of the individual will end in death if there is no god. Trying to dismiss horrible things by saying that the victim won't care after they die anyway doesn't make god more appealing Do you think this way about bad things happening in the world today? If someone got raped and murdered, we don't just say, "Oh well, the victim doesn't care anymore so why should we?" Bad things shouldn't be dismissed by changing the topic to whether or not the victim still feels pain. If that were the case, we would have crime running rampant because no one would bother to stop it. All murders become victimless crimes if you believe the victim is better off dead. This is not a healthy worldview to adapt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pratt Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 did i read correctly that you MAY have claimed that one may be burning in hell eternally and not suffer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tedbunnny Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 This is one video my new Christian friend showed me about how God pulls us through everything and the purpose for the suffering. It spoke to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 This is one video my new Christian friend showed me about how God pulls us through everything and the purpose for the suffering. It spoke to me. God doesn't pull you through. YOU pull you through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tedbunnny Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 A lot of people confuse God and Religion and walk away from both of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 This is one video my new Christian friend showed me about how God pulls us through everything and the purpose for the suffering. It spoke to me. God cannot ignore the cry of the afflicted. Yet every day hundreds of children starve to death in Africa. And hundreds more children die of disease every day. God doesn't do squat for them even if their parents do cry out to the right God. The Bible says God is close to those who cry out. Yet God never shows up. These people have to endure suffering and pain just like those who don't cry out to God. There is no difference between those who cry to God and those who don't. As for "You have to have it all together to have a relationship with God" uh what relationship? Talking to yourself while hoping that somebody is listening is not a relationship. Reading a book while you imagine it speaks to you is not a relationship. God doesn't have relationships. "The essence of salvation is calling out to God and admitting you don't have it all together". How utterly selfish of God to put people though all the suffering of life just so that they will want a relationship with God. That is beyond stalker-level creepy. That is "keep your daughter locked in the basement and have a child with her" creepy. Meh, I'm not going to bother watching the second half. The thinking isn't going to get better. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 A lot of people confuse God and Religion and walk away from both of them Are you looking for validation from us? You've been a Christian for a few days or a few weeks now. We have left Christianity because we find it false, empty, pointless and/or wasteful. The things we have experienced do not build faith. I too use to think that my relationship with Jesus was not religion. I was so cool in my Christianity. I don't see it that way anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted December 23, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted December 23, 2014 YEs I have always and still do fear that you are right . It may be that human beings added a lot of bullshit to it to jive with the culture of the time. It might also be that God met the people who had the culture engrained into them so deep seatedly that God would not be able to keep them devoted to him without permitting the depravity of the culture and customs of the time. When you say people added and made up stuff, It honestly looks that way to me, but I don't know that I am right. But honestly, it looks that way which I can't deny. Also, in all honesty, I'd like to think that is the case in so far as God was not the tyrant that people wanted him to be and thus portrayed him as. Earlier in this conversation, you told me that the scriptures say that nothing is impossible for god. Read back over the part that you emboldened above and ask yourself if you still believe that's true... because either nothing is impossible for god or it isn't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted December 23, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted December 23, 2014 Yeah...the theory of evolution contradicts itself as well. Support this claim with evidence of the Theory of Evolution contradicting itself. Bump! TedBundy, you made a positive claim concerning the Theory of Evolution contradicting itself. You have been asked to support this claim with evidence. You seem like a nice guy. I hope you're not the same kind of dishonest christian we normally get in here who makes claims without support or who makes promises and then breaks them. I await your response. Thanks, TRP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted December 23, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted December 23, 2014 A lot of people confuse God and Religion and walk away from both of them Isn't that special! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pratt Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 A lot of people confuse God and Religion and walk away from both of them Isn't that special! remember it is a relationship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deidre Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 There's really no reconciling the OT God, with the NT ''version.'' Reason being, the Bible is man's idea of who or what a god might be...if HE himself were a god. This is why (imho) God is in the form of a male, which makes no sense to begin with. Is God a mortal? Does he have genitalia? That alone should show that Bible-god is man's idea of a god, if he were one, which is why God often sounds like a petty, jealous boyfriend in the OT, and then the next minute...like a white knight. I mean, really? If a god should exist, he'd be more incredible than that, let's hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 A lot of people confuse God and Religion and walk away from both of them And some people confuse the two and accept a religion they would otherwise find offensive just because they believe in god. I think the god you believe in is better than the Bible god. Your version of god is more moral and reasonable than Bible god. You have accepted god exists. And now you want to find a religion to tell you about the nature of that god. You are choosing Christianity as your religion, so you have to reconcile your version of god with the Bible's version of god. You can have your god and not have Christianity as your religion. Then you're not stuck with trying to defend its Bible. I don't believe in a god, but for the sake of argument... If I read the Bible, while assuming its god (Yahweh) is real. I don't believe it's possible that OT God could possibly be our Creator. He doesn't seem mature enough. He doesn't seem intelligent enough. He doesn't impress me much with his godly wisdom. He's just some war god that likes to bully his own people. He's jealous and petty and wants constant praise. If the gods are real, Yahweh isn't our Creator. He's a minor tribal god that is claiming to be the Creator. Maybe if he had appeared and given some revolutionary concepts like "stop raping women" or "stop owning slaves" then he would be more impressive. But the fact is he didn't. And now in order to accept Christianity you have to try to make excuses for him. If you had to sit through the religious ceremonies of the OT you would find them all crazy. Because their culture was so different from today. Yahweh likes when priests sprinkle blood around the temple for sacrifice. (Leviticus 4:16, 17) You really think the creator of the universe would be happy that some people are sprinkling blood around the temple? People don't do these things today because it's unacceptable in our culture. We need to stone our disobedient children. (Deuteronomy 21:18-21) Of course nobody does that today. We find it unacceptable. You think god thought this was ok then changed his mind? Bible god is less moral and fair than we are today. The world he created for us is flawed, unfair, and unjust. So why assume the afterlife he has planned for us will be fair, just, and good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Yeah...the theory of evolution contradicts itself as well.Support this claim with evidence of the Theory of Evolution contradicting itself. Bump! TedBundy, you made a positive claim concerning the Theory of Evolution contradicting itself. You have been asked to support this claim with evidence. You seem like a nice guy. I hope you're not the same kind of dishonest christian we normally get in here who makes claims without support or who makes promises and then breaks them. I await your response. Thanks, TRP Is it going to be that the ToE violates the 2nd law of Thermodynamics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted December 23, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted December 23, 2014 Yeah...the theory of evolution contradicts itself as well.Support this claim with evidence of the Theory of Evolution contradicting itself. Bump! TedBundy, you made a positive claim concerning the Theory of Evolution contradicting itself. You have been asked to support this claim with evidence. You seem like a nice guy. I hope you're not the same kind of dishonest christian we normally get in here who makes claims without support or who makes promises and then breaks them. I await your response. Thanks, TRP Is it going to be that the ToE violates the 2nd law of Thermodynamics? One of my personal favorites! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 And, if we evolved from monkeys.... why do we still have monkeys? tedbunny, I'm just playing around. Await your response to the Prof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted December 23, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted December 23, 2014 Yeah...the theory of evolution contradicts itself as well.Support this claim with evidence of the Theory of Evolution contradicting itself. Bump! TedBundy, you made a positive claim concerning the Theory of Evolution contradicting itself. You have been asked to support this claim with evidence. You seem like a nice guy. I hope you're not the same kind of dishonest christian we normally get in here who makes claims without support or who makes promises and then breaks them. I await your response. Thanks, TRP Is it going to be that the ToE violates the 2nd law of Thermodynamics? Pre-emptive strike: http://www.fisica.net/epistemologia/STYER_Entropy_and_Evolution.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 There not still using that old canard, are they? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted December 23, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted December 23, 2014 So the conclusion is, "reconciling the violent god with a loving god" can't be done. All you can do is make shit up. The Bible either describes your god or it doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted December 23, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted December 23, 2014 I wonder if TedBundy is coming back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillLooking Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 This is one video my new Christian friend showed me about how God pulls us through everything and the purpose for the suffering. It spoke to me. I am one of those who is too curious so that I watched the entire video. This video has the opposite effect on me than the intended one. It makes me feel so angry. What the heck. If you are an omniscient god, why do you let people feel so much misery? Just so in the end god can hold and carry those poor people? Let us use the analogy similar to the video. Let say the father already checked the forecast and know it was going to be a thunderstorm (omniscient) but he went ahead and had the hiking. What can you say about the father? An egocentric prick? How about all those people who suffered so much and cried for help (the video said god always hears people cries) but they still died in pain. Are you going to say then god is comforting them in the afterlife? How do you know? Been there? Also, I am not going to say anything about the evolution. Others are doing a great job about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 So the conclusion is, "reconciling the violent god with a loving god" can't be done. All you can do is make shit up. The Bible either describes your god or it doesn't. I think it can be done. Perfect grace in my mind would essentially be silence....allowing for the other in the relationship to learn on their own terms/timeline. So it's entirely possible for God to be a god of immediate judgment when He was "dwelling" with the people and that same God but practicing grace at the moment. The scary part for non-believers should be that He is still the God of the OT.... ...my subjective version of theodicy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tedbunnny Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 I wonder if TedBundy is coming back? Mr. Bundy Got fried to a crisp in 1989 and no he wont be coming back. You might see him in hell though Yes, Im trying to respond to posts in the order they are rceived. So im a page or two behind everyone else. I have never been to the internet forum where your first post gets so many replies in a less than 24 hour period. I would normally have a maximum 10 post count on my first day at a forum and how it turned into 41 is a bit unexpected as well as how people were all over this like flies on shit. The last forum I registered for was a christian forum about a month ago and my post count here is higher here in 24 hours than it is there lol. All I was saying in the OP is I heard an explanation I like. Have you heard of it? It's my favorite. I wasn't proselytizing. SO I don't see why people came here so militant and devensive especially since it was my first post. But I'm a big boy and aint sad about it All I can muster is WOW! Haven't quite seen this before. I just got here. Interesting site! People are passionate at least! If you see me not return for 72 hours pm the MOD squad and they will inform you that my posting was disabled. The only other explanation is I died or lost internet access. Otherwise I would say good bye, Lord have mercy on your soul, and good riddance to bad rubbish, before leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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