Christian wants to talk

[DeathWorship]

the bible was most likely inspired by schizophrenia, disease induced dementia, and of course.. stupidity.

 

god is nothing more than an excuse to not fear death.

[Java]

Only faith I have is in the Red Sox.

[crazy-tiger]

Where did you guys dig this walking cliche of a Christian up from?

 

Some of the stuff he's pouring out has been dead and buried for so long, he could get done for grave-robbing...

[Guest sam90]

Oh, by the way Sam90. While we do post our testimonies in a public forum, I'd have to say I'd be mighty offended if a christian dick like you reposted my testimony in the debate forum and took it to pieces.

 

If you went to AA or a group support for drug rehab, and someone in the group told a personal story, would you really feel you had the right to take that story out of that room? At the very least you should have gotten permission from the poster of that testimony to use their words in the debate forum.

 

It's known as courtesy you tactless piece of shit.

 

 

OK I'm going to take this to pieces...

 

reposted my testimony in the debate forum and took it to pieces.

At the very least you should have gotten permission from the poster of that testimony to use their words in the debate forum.

 

Internet. Public. No disclaimer. No copyright. Ok I did not repost and not quote one letter from that testimony. If you want to get into the International property rights (which has happened before) then it's OK to re-write a portion and cite the reference. Which I did... and certainly did not take it "to pieces". Read what I said. I pointed out one Biblical mis-understanding that she has used to support her testimony; that of God being envious. God does not envy since he owns all things anyway. Envy is a sin. I wanted to remove that support because it is not of God. k.

 

If you went to AA or a group support for drug rehab, and someone in the group told a personal story, would you really feel you had the right to take that story out of that room?

 

This anology is flawed since you are trying to link a public testimony which she wants other people to read with a confidentional, private matter like AA (which people often keep secret). You trying to paint me in bad light eh??

 

It's known as courtesy you tactless piece of shit.

I haven't met you. Would you walk up to someone in a room and say that? No, you would probably say, "I respect your opinion but I disagree". Seriously why are you on such a mission to shoot me down? The internet is a crazy dangerous place where people can interact with people without really interacting with them.

 

Jesus is a "stumbling block". You can't run away, you can't hide. He is there and he will always be there.

 

Maybe you think I am some sort of baby Christian and I'll quickly grow up... well I've been leading Bible study at uni and we've been going through 1 Peter 2. Here are my notes on that verse:

 

(8) and "A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense." They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.

 

O – rock (instead of stone) … destined

 

I – You can’t get around God – for one person Jesus is the rock they rely on, for an unbeliever it is a rock they stumble over. To the disobedient stumbling is their condition, destined to be the result of their unbelief. Their "stumbling" is due to their free choice to "disobey the word" (see John 5:40-47 for reasons for rejection) and not due to God predestining them to be lost. God appoints salvation for obedience and destruction for disobedience. By their own choice these people are "destined" (not "pre-destined") to suffer the fate of the disobedient.

 

You seem angry at me... and you are making up reasons to justify it - in your last post you wanted to make me out to be insensitive to this woman's feelings, that I took something confidentional without permission. Folks, this is ceratinly not my intention and I apologise if anyone has been offended. I have not meant to attack anyone personally because I have nothing against anyone here. Unlike <cough>...

 

It's known as courtesy you tactless piece of shit.

 

Hey man I'm tactful like a fox!

[quicksand]

I still hold that misunderstanding of the Bible is rife on this site... should I post more?

Handy that is Sam.

 

We are just all misunderstanding it. I see.

 

So, you must be divine yourself Sam as to not only read the Bible right without misunderstanding it, but applying what you read from the Bible 100% all the time. I mean, we on this site are just misunderstanding after all, but you are not.

 

Jesus says in John 5:31 "If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true."

 

Well, obviously Jesus is sitting there in Jerusalem telling the people he is not the messiah ever after spewing all that crap of how the father does not judge, but the son does.

 

So, is Jesus confused? Is he just misunderstanding.

 

Perhaps you can correct The-perfect-Son-of-God® here too.

[DeathWorship]

Envy is a sin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

so is wrath buddy, and god was chocked FULL of that shit.

[crazy-tiger]

Ok I have been reading this site for a while and it has become increasingly clear that the main causes of people posting here is going to a bad churches, bad teaching and a lack of  biblical understanding.

The moment you wrote that, you proved that you were failing to understand why we are here...

The moment you wrote that, you might as well have said "you must be wrong about why you left"...

The moment you wrote that, you tried your damnedest to stick ALL OF US into the same little mold, like we're all sheep following each other...

The moment you wrote that, you lost all credibility here...

 

 

If you walk into someone's home and tell them they've lied about something that is that fundamental to their lives, wouldn't you expect them to be just a little angry with you?

 

Then why the hell are you so frigging surprised??

[Ouroboros]

Maybe you think I am some sort of baby Christian and I'll quickly grow up... well I've been leading Bible study at uni and we've been going through 1 Peter 2.

 

I think we reacted to you "been christian for 18 months" thing, so we thought you were a freshman in faith.

 

Some of the people here actually had a lot more than 18 months behind their belt.

 

And I warned you that some members would be rough with you; don't expect courtesy in the lions den.

 

Besides, you joined this morning, how much of reading on this site have you really done?

 

I'm sure that you're just acting in your flesh, and want to prove to yourself, how strongly religious you are.

 

But you will meet your match here, so just bring it on!

[quicksand]

Maybe you think I am some sort of baby Christian and I'll quickly grow up... well I've  been leading Bible study at uni and we've been going through 1 Peter 2. Here are my notes on that

 

Are you now? You Forgot this:

 

1 Pet.2:18 - Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.

 

I need some kitchen help. And I am going to keep your children too.

 

Of course you'll turn around and sugar coat this passage. Rememer Jesus had no problem with holding slaves, are you going to contradict Jesus and point out his error and his misunderstandings too?

 

So please, demonstrate your authority. Should be very easy to do. You are leader of Bible study are you not?

 

But you can't stop at just demonstrating your authority over us, you must also demonstrate your authority over Jesus' own misunderstandings too.

 

But if you are not an authority, then how are we to take any of your words as the honest-to-god truth?

 

So which is it? Iron out Jesus and demonstrate your authority, or drop the pretentious attitude already.

[Java]

I haven't met you. Would you walk up to someone in a room and say that? No, you would probably say, "I respect your opinion but I disagree". Seriously why are you on such a mission to shoot me down? The internet is a crazy dangerous place where people can interact with people without really interacting with them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'd go up to someone and say that. Wanna post your phone number? I'll call you and say it. Wanna post your address? Someone in our groups will go over to your house and say it. (Please be near Nivek... )

 

We're not internet n00bs, you know. We're also not Christianity n00bs.

 

Do the Easter Challenge. I dare you. You wanna talk about your inerrant book of knowledge, prove it's coherent through the story of Easter Morning. Dan Barker set the challenge up. Google it.

[white_raven23]

You seem angry at me... and you are making up reasons to justify it - in your last post you wanted to make me out to be insensitive to this woman's feelings, that I took something confidentional without permission. Folks, this is ceratinly not my intention and I apologise if anyone has been offended. I have not meant to attack anyone personally because I have nothing against anyone here. Unlike <cough>...

Hey man I'm tactful like a fox!

 

 

Hey man, I don't know you either. What I do know, is that the testimonies section of this forum is a big time courtesy area. Did you read the guidelines in there? People are expressing their hurt. Their pain.

 

I don't care how public the internet is, there is still a little something called "honor" and "integrity". Now the testimony you referred to here in the debate forum may not have seemed personal or emotional to you. But to the other person...maybe it was.

 

Below is a quote from Reach, from the Guidelines

 

That said, please consider these guidelines for posting in the Testimony forum.

 

1. Please remember the main purpose of the site in your posts; to encourage those who have left Christianity or other religions. Post something encouraging! Some members will have chosen a different path than you did; please respect their journey and remember that we all choose different turns in the road. This is not the proper forum for you to criticize or make other condemnatory statements about the path they have currently chosen. You may change tomorrow the beliefs you are espousing today.

 

2. Please refrain from posting anything that might be seen as evangelistic. There should be no witnessing, no proselytizing, no offers of prayer, no suggestions for "taking issues to God," etc…

 

Out of sensitivity to those who choose to share their life stories here, please be aware that all responses in this area, especially posts by Christians, are subject to editing or deletion.

 

These are the guidelines christians are asked to follow within the testimony forum. So....exactly how is it okay for you to do this? Just because you took the meat of the matter to a different forum? Is this your justification?

 

I disagree with your decision. I thought it was very rude. And I felt no anger at you UNTIL you did this. I don't have to "make up reasons" that you flat out hand me.

 

As for your being a Christian? I really don't care. Your religion doesn't automatically mean I'm persecuting you.

[Ouroboros]

As for your being a Christian? I really don't care. Your religion doesn't automatically mean I'm persecuting you.

 

Heck yeah! That's a good point!

 

I would say sam90 is persecuting us!

 

:angry:

[Guest sam90]

Handy that is Sam.

 

We are just all misunderstanding it. I see.

 

So, you must be divine yourself Sam as to not only read the Bible right without misunderstanding it, but applying what you read from the Bible 100% all the time. I mean, we on this site are just misunderstanding after all, but you are not.

 

All. Nope. I am totally fallible. I am learning all the time. But I have my eye's on Jesus.

 

This is about you and Him. I'm just trying to be an arrow...

 

The Bible... is a book for believers. I would also say that it is written to adults, but not just for them. Above all, it needs to be studied, and not just read like the following:

 

Jesus says in John 5:31 "If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true."

 

Well, obviously Jesus is sitting there in Jerusalem telling the people he is not the messiah ever after spewing about a crap of how the father does not judge, but the son does.

 

So, is Jesus confused? Is he just misunderstanding.

 

Perhaps you can correct the perfect son of God.

 

No, but I can tell you what I think:

 

John 5:30-32 GNB

(30) "I can do nothing on my own authority; I judge only as God tells me, so my judgment is right, because I am not trying to do what I want, but only what he who sent me wants.

(31) "If I testify on my own behalf, what I say is not to be accepted as real proof.

(32) But there is someone else who testifies on my behalf, and I know that what he says about me is true.

 

Jesus is not the one confused here, if he had no proof of his being the Messiah, and equal to God, common sense would mean you would reject what he says, but the mighty power of God, by which he works his miracles, sufficiently proves that he is I Am.

 

Now look here:

 

John 8:12-19 GNB

(12) Jesus spoke to the Pharisees again. "I am the light of the world," he said. "Whoever follows me will have the light of life and will never walk in darkness."

(13) The Pharisees said to him, "Now you are testifying on your own behalf; what you say proves nothing."

(14) "No," Jesus answered, "even though I do testify on my own behalf, what I say is true, because I know where I came from and where I am going. You do not know where I came from or where I am going.

(15) You make judgments in a purely human way; I pass judgment on no one.

(16) But if I were to do so, my judgment would be true, because I am not alone in this; the Father who sent me is with me.

(17) It is written in your Law that when two witnesses agree, what they say is true.

(18) I testify on my own behalf, and the Father who sent me also testifies on my behalf."

(19) "Where is your father?" they asked him. "You know neither me nor my Father," Jesus answered. "If you knew me, you would know my Father also."

 

Jesus again uses scripture to back up his claims. And there is the straightforward teaching of scripture, not "Jesus was confused."

 

Here's something from 'the book', John 5:

 

"You do not understand, because you cannot hear My word; ...you are of the devil and want to do his evil desires." 8:43-44

"You are unwilling to come to Me that you may have life; how can you believe, when you seek man's glory rather than God's?" 5:40,44

 

In 8:47 John is saying "because you don't believe/love/follow God you don't hear His words when I speak His words!"

[Eponymic]

Wow.

 

After all of what you've stirred up Sam, its hard to know how to react.

 

I'm part infuriated, part astounded, part sad that you are so blinded by your fervor that there's little chance of intellectual discourse at this point; because most everyone now has their emotional boundaries shrunken down thinner than Calista Flockhart- and therefore is ready to snap at anything you say.

 

At the very least I'll make this point, I respect that fact that you are passionate about your point of view at the moment. Passion can be a wonderful thing when focused correctly.

 

Though, please do recognize, that almost every time you engage in an ardent outcry fueled primarily by emotional response its easy to step on people's toes and break a few metatarsals.

 

Yes, you were within your 'legal' rights to rewrite & reference someone's testimony. However, it's still very sensitive material. It's not easy for someone to post personal material like that. And unless you deal with it with the pinnacle of tact & decency, you're going to arouse ire from people.

 

So here's the bottom line Sam,

If you want to hang around here, be wary of what you say. Tone down the preaching (everyone here has heard enough of it), try & listen a little (you'll gain more respect for trying to understand our point of view, not just nay saying it), and use a even more tact that you would normally think necessary (because this pack is very much ready to spring at anyone who wants to try & reconvert them; they've dealt with enough pain and that's what everyone wants to avoid having more of).

 

Peace,

Erick

[Guest bdp]

Jesus is a "stumbling block". You can't run away, you can't hide. He is there and he will always be there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Stumbling block? Hardly, 'he' is a non-entity. What's to hide from? I never saw 'him' in some 17 years as a Xtian; he's 'there'? Where? Only in the pages of a book, no different than other legendary figures with possible historical roots like Arthur of Camelot or Robin of Loxley.

 

bdp

[mrtruth]

You know, I often see Christians use the "You believe that Herod/Washington/Nero existed, why not Jesus? He's historical!"

 

I don't really care if he existed or not. Anything we 'know' about Jesus is from a book, written by men, interpreted by men, and this manmade book is not universially available or applicable to the world at large. Its a frickin book! Big whoop!

 

Why do Christians think it matters to ex-christians if Jesus exited or not? I have no proof...and I do not care. If God exists, and is going to FRY me for not believing...so be it. I can't MAKE myself believe...saying the words are meaningless...I DO NOT BELIEVE, and that's that.

 

Words are meaningless if I don't mean them....

 

If Sam was born in India, he's most likely be a Hindu, in Iraq, he'd be a Muslim, etc....nothing magical about Christianity...just another manmade attempt to explain the big questions in life...

[Ouroboros]

Stumbling block?  Hardly, 'he' is a non-entity.  What's to hide from?  I never saw 'him' in some 17 years as a Xtian; he's 'there'?  Where?  Only in the pages of a book, no different than other legendary figures with possible historical roots like Arthur of Camelot or Robin of Loxley.

 

bdp

 

Jesus is the rock...guitar player... and you would stumble upon him when he layeth down under the influence of the spirits.

 

[LloydDobler]

Just a side note, he did not cut and paste a quote from a testimony in the testimonies FORUM, he was cut and pasting from a testimony posted on the FRONT PAGE of exchristian.net.

 

For those of us that lurk only in the forums it's easy to forget there's a whole other page of testimonies, that have been submitted purely for very public consumption. His whole comment was cut and pasted from that thread, so the testimony poster did have adequate opportunity to rebut and reply, it was not the blindside it is being made out to be.

[quicksand]

(quote=sam90,May 23 2005, 02:25 PM)

All. Nope. I am totally fallible. I am learning all the time. But I have my eye's on Jesus.

 

This is about you and Him. I'm just trying to be an arrow...

 

The Bible... is a book for believers. I would also say that it is written to adults, but not just for them. Above all, it needs to be studied, and not just read like the following:

And the Quran is a Book for believers too. So what?

 

Try to frame an argument Sam90. You're just avoiding the central issue and that is your authority on the Bible.

 

Since we're all so misunderstanding it.

 

No, but I can tell you what I think:

Wonderful. Still have not proved that you are an authority.

 

Thus, you have refuted yourself by not demonstrating that you an athority, fallible or not, and can be ignored until you do so.

 

John 5:30-32 GNB

...

 

Jesus is not the one confused here, if he had no proof of his being the Messiah, and equal to God, common sense would mean you would reject what he says, but the mighty power of God, by which he works his miracles, sufficiently proves that he is I Am.

Well, I used the KJV. You use the GNB. Which translation is more accurate? Please demonstrate your authority here. We had another apologist say the KJ 1612 is the only reliable word of God and all others are the stuff of Satan. According to him, your spewing the devils nonsense. Just wanted to let you know.

 

You know, unlike Christians, I actually read the Bible and don't graft anything above and beyond it Sam. But this is exactly what you do. And the funny thing, for every thing you have to fix and harmonize, you demonstrate the maddening incoherence of it all and make further problems for yourself.

 

Anyway, Jesus says "I can do nothing on my own authority". In that case, we can just ignore him as an authority as well. Since he is making appeal to his God for that authority. Well, he's God is he not? "I am" before Abraham he says. So what is it? Iron him out.

 

Says here himself: Jhn 5:27: And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

 

In as little as 3 verses - between 5:27 and 5:30, Jesus contradicts his own authority.

 

So, please, iron him out.

 

(Keep digging in the Bible you'll find an answer and I will do the same as we dosie-do around your credibility.)

 

John 8:12-19 GNB

(13)  The Pharisees said to him, "Now you are testifying on your own behalf; what you say proves nothing."

Well the Pharisess were right. They took the proper skeptical approach which you have failed to realize in this fable.

 

Anyway, Jesus is again contradicting himself. John 5:31 says he can not testify for himself but does a perfect 180 in John 8:14 he says he can testify for himself.

 

Once again, iron the poor fella out.

 

Jesus again uses scripture to back up his claims. And there is the straightforward teaching of scripture, not "Jesus was confused."

Yeah he does use scripture.

 

So did I.

 

And I am a Son of God too.

(According to the Christian worldview, I just can not manifest myself!)

 

LOL

 

Here's something from 'the book', John 5:

...

 

In 8:47 John is saying "because you don't believe/love/follow God you don't hear His words when I speak His words!"

I like the KJ. It was what I was raised on.

 

Jhn 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God.

 

So, Sam. You still need to prove that you are an authority.

 

How do we know you are hearing God's words right?

 

Because you are a believer?

 

Open that can of worms and they you will have to justify your sect which only further compounds the problem of your questioned authority of the bible.

[Thurisaz]

Ok I have been reading this site for a while and it has become increasingly clear that the main causes of people posting here is going to a bad churches, bad teaching and a lack of  biblical understanding.

 

Perfectly wrong, at least as far as I'm concerned.

It is understanding of the wholly babble that provides a damn valid reason for me to fight the christian death cult and its unhealthy influence on the whole world.

 

By the way, your silly game is getting boring berserk.

(Unless someone of the mods/admins assigned that avatar to you, which is not too likely considering that these forums are remarkably liberal compared to your typical christiann "speak the truth and get banned" forum.)

[Ouroboros]

My friend quicksand,

 

fix the quotes please, it was hard to read...

 

[quicksand]

My friend quicksand,

 

fix the quotes please, it was hard to read...

 

All done.

 

(And in the re-release, you will miss me I assure you!)

[I Broke Free]

Sam90

 

I read about four or five lines of your initial post before by mind started reading “blah blah blah blah.” Your reasoning for being a Christian means nothing to me. I don’t care about how you have managed to take a ridiculous fairytale and made it real for yourself. I have read hundreds of stories like yours; none of them address the basic issue of why Christianity is true, only how you have managed to make Christianity work in your life.

 

 

Haven’t you ever just stepped back with no preconceptions and thought to yourself…

 

Would the creator of the universe set up a system where he granted humans the power to reason and then ask us to set it aside on penalty of everlasting torment?

 

Your religion is an abomination, your faith is misplaced, and your humanity has been destroyed.

 

Christianity is the way? No thanks!

[Ouroboros]

Like all good Christians, sam90 shows the whirlwind effect:

 

He’s stuck in a spinning motion and can look at his hands and feet and say “Hey I’m still, I’m not moving”, and then look at us and say “But you guys, so spin around a lot, aren’t y’all?”.

 

While the truth we know, we’re on the ground, he’s the one spinning.

[Guest Euthyphro]

sam90 wrote:

" I am sam90. sam90 I am." "That sam90-I-am! That sam90-I-am!" " Listen to my spam!" "From me!" "sam90 I am."

 

I do not like that sam90-I-am.

 

sam90 wrote:

"Do you like spam?"

 

Gah! No!

....I do not like it, sam90-I-am. I do not like spam.

 

sam90 wrote:

"Would you like spam here or there?" "Time to spare?": "Sit back in your chair!"

 

I would not like it here or there. I would do not like it anywhere! I do not like spam! I do not like it, sam90-I-am!

 

 

sam90 wrote:

"Would you like spam if I use testimony to make jesus unfake? Would you like my spam with cake?"

 

Testimonies don't prove your godman is unfake. I do not want your spam with cake. I do not like spam here or there. I do not like it anywhere. I do not like spam. I do not like it, sam90-I-am!

 

sam90 wrote:

"Would you listen to spam if I told you I was a fox? What if I told you I have clean socks?

 

Not even if you were a fox. Not with clean socks. Not if you use testimony to make your godman seem unfake. Not with cake. I would not like it here or there. I would not like it anywhere. I would not like spam. I do not like it, sam90-I-am!

 

I'm teasing you sam90. I couldn't resist. Start a thread about our misconceptions of scripture.

 

BTW even if I started out in a bad church don't mean I didn't question the bible as well. When I was a preteen I asked a lot of questions. My aunt made the mistake of encouraging me to read the bible all the way through.