Eccles1:2 Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Preaching the gospel is supposed to be accompanied by healings: and he sent them out to preach the kingdom of God and to heal the sick. Heal the sick who are there and tell them, ‘The kingdom of God is near you.’ And more, you are supposed to raise the dead: Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received, freely give. Why don't Christians do this more? Why aren't there hundreds of verifiable, documented instances of healings and raisings from the dead? When did a Christian last even try to raise someone from the dead? Please enlighten me, preachers of the true gospel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reach Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Some Christians will say, "Healing is not for today." To which I always say, "Why not? We have just as much need for healing today as we ever have had." Signs and wonders will follow them that believe? Not that I've noticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Xtians are all full of shit if they cant do what the Bible plainly says they are supposed to be able to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Yep, they would either say those signs are not for today *nods* OR get baptized, start talking gibberish and claim they are speaking in tongues. Do y'all remember hearing that stuff for the first time? I didn't know what to think. My old charismatic church also had "healings" where I witnessed those that felt they were "slain in the spirit." People would fall backwards and an elder would catch them..they would lay there on the floor for about 5 to 10 minutes, then get up and go back to their seat like nothing happened. No one there seemed to think that was unusual either. So one day I just observed to see if it was a trick or if they were "making themselves" fall or something....it didn't appear to seem that way. They looked like they were going down for real, falling backwards whether someone was there to catch or not. Then again, maybe it was a "trust" thing. I didn't stick around that church long enough to find out. I went up one time for my migraines. We would be in the middle of a sermon, my pastor would claim....."I feel that healings are needed tonight" and like a stampede of 100 people would rush up to the front. So I went and nothing happened with me. You know what is REALLY ironic about "healings?" That sometimes, in the world, when they DO really happen, christians usually then claim they are from the devil! LOL Lisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orthodox christian Posted April 12, 2005 Share Posted April 12, 2005 Lisa, that was interesting, I've never been to a church like that (hek, I've never been to any of these churches, but mine! glad I haven't) My friend in my church also said that he wandered in one of those out of curiosity, and he said that he and other people were standing and the 'priest' was saying a prayer or something and then everybody was supposed to fall, but he didn't. The 'priest' started pushing his forehead, like, fall at last! My friend never went there again. But healings do happen. And many, many other miracles in the Orthodox Christian Church. Like hundreds or even thousands of miracles each year in all the world. Just in my parish three people got healed (my other friend from brain damage, a boy from brain tumor, a lady from some kind of a bad female sickness and she has something like three children now, yet another lady from blood issue like the one in the NT whom Jesus healed, she said: God, if you want me to be in this Church, heal me, and He did, so she is with us I guess that makes four). Some of these are documented, but I probably cannot bring the documents here. It wouldn't be nice to come up to one and say: "Hey, some folks in a forum asked me some proof that you were healed, give it to me!" However, there are things other than healings documented and the materials are on the internet. Blind faith, you say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reality Amplifier Posted April 12, 2005 Share Posted April 12, 2005 Some of these are documented, but I probably cannot bring the documents here. Really? Why not?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Euthyphro Posted April 12, 2005 Share Posted April 12, 2005 Lisa, that was interesting, I've never been to a church like that (hek, I've never been to any of these churches, but mine! glad I haven't) My friend in my church also said that he wandered in one of those out of curiosity, and he said that he and other people were standing and the 'priest' was saying a prayer or something and then everybody was supposed to fall, but he didn't. The 'priest' started pushing his forehead, like, fall at last! My friend never went there again. But healings do happen. And many, many other miracles in the Orthodox Christian Church. Like hundreds or even thousands of miracles each year in all the world. Just in my parish three people got healed (my other friend from brain damage, a boy from brain tumor, a lady from some kind of a bad female sickness and she has something like three children now, yet another lady from blood issue like the one in the NT whom Jesus healed, she said: God, if you want me to be in this Church, heal me, and He did, so she is with us I guess that makes four). Some of these are documented, but I probably cannot bring the documents here. It wouldn't be nice to come up to one and say: "Hey, some folks in a forum asked me some proof that you were healed, give it to me!" However, there are things other than healings documented and the materials are on the internet. Blind faith, you say? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No offense friend, but I have no faith in here say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted April 12, 2005 Share Posted April 12, 2005 Yep..."miracles" do happen.....in pretty much every religion. What makes Xtian so special? Not a damn thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reality Amplifier Posted April 12, 2005 Share Posted April 12, 2005 Miracles do seem to happen…in direct correlation to the individual observer’s ignorance of the event. Why is it that reports of miracles never seem to happen under controlled conditions, where skeptics can measure or record the event? That fact itself seems to be a miracle… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ML13 Posted April 12, 2005 Share Posted April 12, 2005 Many years ago a faith healer came to the city where we lived in New York. A member of our church had a child with a permanent disability. Their faith in God was the factor that helped them through their adversity. Some friend told them they should take the child to the faith healer which they did. He told them the reason their child was disabled was because of their lack of faith. They were devastated. It took their pastor several couselling sessions to get them to understand that was not the case. That experience totally soured me on faith healers... now I don't trust any of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orthodox christian Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Reality Amplifier, I like your nick! Why not? I explained. But if you tell me that you will believe after I present you some documents, and they indeed state that something unexpliainable happened, I probably can try and buzz my friends to give me the medical records. But somehow I doubt that would happen (that you will believe after that) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Euthyphro Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 I would never trust any documents from an X'r or an X'r doctor. Maybe God does do miracles but I have not seen any. I will not believe in these things as a fact until I see a miracle for myself. Documents that make extraordinary claims mean as much to me as fake splinters of the cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPillAddict Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Actually...there is a whole new group of "New Age Christians" now who think that Jesus is giving them the power to heal. They have many books on it and have meetings where they gather around someone who has pain or something and they work together with their "energy" and "heal" the person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orthodox christian Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 I would never trust any documents from an X'r or an X'r doctor. That's exacltly why we don't bother give you the proof. What about photographs and videos of miracles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPillAddict Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 I would never trust any documents from an X'r or an X'r doctor. That's exacltly why we don't bother give you the proof. What about photographs and videos of miracles? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> There is no proof. You know it, we know it. If it was REAL proof then you would show it in a heartbeat. I can go make some photos and videos of miracles right now.....$29.99 if you are interested... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaded Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 I was part of a church that was big on healings. Lots of people were healed, got up, gave testimony and believed they were healed. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Over the years I saw a lot of relapses and "strugles." It's pretty easy to convince yourself you are healed and convince others, it's pretty hard to maintain the feeling when the adrenaline and dopamine wear off. The trick is you just got up and told the world so you can't admit to failure. That would make you look bad and may poke holes in other's beliefs (as well as yours if you really admit it). There are allot of people struggling with chronic illness and injuries in the faith healing circles. Very few of them will admit it and they often go to great lengths to hide it. I have seen people give up life long interests, hobbies and sports so that they would not have to seek help for injuries or admit to themselves that they REALLY have a problem. Why is it that many of the faith healing circles consider medical help to be counterproductive to their work? Sure, you will hear about relying on god instead of man or how needing a doctor shows a lack of faith. Don't you think an article in the Journal of the AMA would help your cause? Why not share it with the world if it is true? Part of the reason is that a doctor would be able to tell you that the tuberculosis you were cured from was just the common cold. The flu you managed to get rid of with a week of prayer would have gone away on it's own. The food poisoning went away when there was nothing left to vomit up. Your torn muscle was simply a strain. Your diabetes went away when you prayed...and changed your diet and started to exercise. Etc... Sure there are "real healings" out there. Cancers and diseases go into remision. People recover from grave injuries that would have killed most. Why? Nobody has a clue as to why. It happens to people of all faith's and of no faith. The only consistency is that it doesn't happen all that often in the faith healing circles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Reality Amplifier, I like your nick! Why not? I explained. But if you tell me that you will believe after I present you some documents, and they indeed state that something unexpliainable happened, I probably can try and buzz my friends to give me the medical records. But somehow I doubt that would happen (that you will believe after that) Just because something unexplained happened doesn't mean god did it. All it means is something unexplained happened. Lots of times people just get better. Living beings do that. Now if my car has a bad wheel bearing and it just got better, why that might be a miracle. If I were you I'd try the move a mountain test under controled conditions. I can't figure out why it hasn't been done. Heck I'd settle for a 10# rock. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reality Amplifier Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Reality Amplifier, I like your nick! Um, thanks! What's a nick? Why not? I explained. But if you tell me that you will believe after I present you some documents, and they indeed state that something unexpliainable happened, I probably can try and buzz my friends to give me the medical records. But somehow I doubt that would happen (that you will believe after that) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You're correct. Providing medical records or testimony is probably not something that would flat out convince me a miracle occured. It is hard for me to imagine how one can ever be justified in believing in a miracle just on the basis of testimony. Joseph Smith produced 3 witnesses, and then 8 witness who all gave signed testimony attesting to the golden plates that Smith said the angel Moroni revealed to him which allegedly recorded the Book of Mormon. Would you consider that testimony confirming evidence of a miracle? Likewise with photos and videos of miracles. Technology allows us to create amazing digital special effects, so who is to say what might be real, and what might be manufactured? Consistent testimony from a numerous group of people, all reporting nearly the same thing would certainly lead me to believe that something unusual seemed to have happened, but as Chef correctly pointed out, that is not necessarily evidence of a miracle. The unexplained is not necessarily inexplicable. If I saw a flaming shrub speak to me, I might consider that a miracle, or I might consider that maybe somebody had slipped me some peyote. If I saw the earth and the moon stop flat in their orbital tracks to extend daylight without instant worldwide destruction, or the red sea parting in two, a world created out of nothing, a human being created out of dirt, or leviating hundreds of feet into the air, a mountain moving at the command of prayer, etc, then I’ll remember to come talk to you… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Euthyphro Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 I would never trust any documents from an X'r or an X'r doctor. That's exacltly why we don't bother give you the proof. What about photographs and videos of miracles? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nah. I gota see a miracle that is happening right in front of me. Now if God would walk and talk with me as he allegedly did with abraham then I'd believe in your God. To be honest with you though.. if I saw some one being reserected from the dead the first thing I would think of is aliens from outerspace instead of God. If there is a God I refuse to think that God plays favorites and heals some but not others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reality Amplifier Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 To be honest with you though.. if I saw some one being reserected from the dead the first thing I would think of is aliens from outerspace instead of God. "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlinfmct87 Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 I would never trust any documents from an X'r or an X'r doctor. That's exacltly why we don't bother give you the proof. What about photographs and videos of miracles? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> SO YOU'RE SITTING ON PROOF OF DIVINE INTERVENTION?!?! Thrall me with your evidence. Give me the answers to ease my curiosity. Merlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Lots of people tried to heal me while I was Xtian, and I mean, lots! Nothing worked. I would sit there on the chair very cynically when they prayed over me but nothing happened. I was same as before... See, Xtians is not the miracle workers... the doctors are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eccles1:2 Posted April 13, 2005 Author Share Posted April 13, 2005 I believe there are many instances of inexplicable spontaneous remission etc etc etc, and many of these are claimed as miracles by Christians. Some of them may even be psychosomatically affected by the fact of believing. But many others occur outside Christianity. However, this isn't the point I was trying to make with this thread. My question for practising Christians is why aren't all preachers, including those who come on here, healing people along with the preaching? Where are the signs and wonders following? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scitsofreaky Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Just because something unexplained happened doesn't mean god did it.A breif summary of belief in God: I don't understand it, so god must have done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Or the devil if it was something bad.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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