Why aren't there more healings?

[scitsofreaky]

Healings do not happen because they depend on the amount of faith one has.

Well, if it only takes the faith of a mustard seed (which have no faith because they are just a seed, and only man can have faith) to move mountains, which has yet to be done by anybody ever, not even in the Bible, how much faith does it take to heal someone?

Also, isn't faith an all-or-nothing sort of thing: you either have faith or you don't.

I'm surprised I have seen (although maybe I just missed it while skimming) the ultimate christian cop-out: It wasn't in God's plan.

[Fweethawt]

Thanks JP.

 

One of the videos from that very site belies the entire post that you quoted. Here is a link to the video ---> Magic Fire My Ass

 

There are no (goodness gracious) Great Balls of Fire flying around lighting everyones candles. All of those people stand around the outside of some cave and wait for some dude to come out and start lighting the candles. The videos of the lighting are laughable. It looks just like someone filmed a camera flash, then cropped out two or three frames from the video and called it a miracle.

 

 

Orthy,

 

Your proof is garbage. The only miracle happening here, is that you actually think this stuff is true.

[Eccles1:2]

Your proof is garbage.  The only miracle happening here, is that you actually think this stuff is true.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hmm. The site is worth visiting for the translations alone - my favourite: "Man may see peoples which point each other at bottom - where from, possibly, flashes are seen."

 

The miracle of flashes from peoples bottom! Still, the "washing in the holy fire" thing is weird. Shame I can't view any of the movies.

 

HOWEVER... Once again I must try to drag my thread back to its original purpose, which was to ask ordinary Christians: why don't you heal and raise the dead when you preach? I still don't have any satisfactory answers from you...

[Loren]

HOWEVER... Once again I must try to drag my thread back to its original purpose, which was to ask ordinary Christians: why don't you heal and raise the dead when you preach? I still don't have any satisfactory answers from you...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<Jeopardy music plays... >

 

Eccles, how about starting a scale which shows how many times you've had to drag your thread back from a digression? How many times has it been now, and still no answer? Should we start a betting pool?

[Jaded]

OC, nice story but I am still a sceptic. I am curious as to what you mean by "blood spesis" I am familiar with sepsis and septic shock, and yes, I know that the infection can get into the bloodstream and spread, but I have never heard of blood spesis. I looked it up, no one else has either...

 

You said that your mother had this disease for six months? How much of that time was she in ICU? Sepsis is a pretty serious problem and you are either in ICU or you don't have a septic issue. Do you think that the 24 hour a day IV antibiotic drip could have had something to do with her healing?

 

Either that or blood sepsis is something else that no one else (including doctors) has heard of. http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/sepsis.html

 

Healing is a quesiton of faith? What about the parents who let their children die while praying over them for a healing? Face it, nobody wants to lose a child. They chose prayer because they believe it is there best chance, that their is no way that god could let them down. In far too many DOCUMENTED cases, god does precisely that. Was their faith not strong enough? Did god say, "I know you loved me and trusted me, but oops, you chose the wrong church?"

[Vixentrox]

What I find so fascinating is that I have seen people being healed at the hands of, DARE I say it? Medical Science!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

OMG...you heathen! Trusting in doctors.

[Reach]

You know, Eccles, as we wait... and wait... and wait... for a Christian to respond here, I am reminded of a very simple fact. One of the most common reasons I have ever had for disobedience in following a directive from someone whom I loved and trusted is the fact that I simply could not do what I was told to do.

 

Dan, I will need the name of your mother.

Where is the precedent for that in your scriptures?

[Reach]

OK, one brave soul.

 

Nightflight, we will have to use the simplified method because you don't have the holy oil which is better.

All you do is make the sign of the cross over your bed and pillow before you lie down to sleep. Here is how you make the sign of the cross: press the tips of three fingers -- the thumb, the pointer and the middle fingers -- together, and lay the other two on the palm. This should be the right hand. Draw the sign of the cross in the air with your hand folded like that over your bed and pillow. Draw the vertical bar first, and then the horisontal from left to right. You can cross yourself too, this way your three fingers put together should touch your forehead, your bellybotton, your right shoulder, and your left shoulder. You can do it three times just to make sure

 

This might not help you completely. In my case I still had some problems, and I asked my priest and he gave me holy oil. You can get that at an Orthodox Church in your area. Just call or e-mail the priest and say you need some holy oil. And if you get that, apply it right before going to bed. I can give you the directions (or the priest can).

 

Anyone else wants to try?

You have got to be kidding!!! Ok, who is playing this character?

[zfunkman]

Dan, I will need the name of your mother.

Honestly, miracles are up to God, and if He wishes, He will not perform them. And most of them depend on the faith of the sick person him or herself. If you want, you can go to San Francisco with your mother. She herself and you (yes!) need to pray. But not just a little pray like "God, if you exist, heal my mom." This might take time. When my mom was in the hospital (it was in a muslim city), there was a lady who didn't believe in Christ. My mom had her prayerbook with her, and she talked that lady into praying with her. They prayerd every day, and the lady got completely healed. The doctors let her go home without the operation which she was supposed to have. So, this might take time. And I do not guarantee the healing, although it is pretty likely if you try. San Francisco is good, especially if you live near. Where do you live?

You don't get it.

 

I feared I wouldn't. What is it this time?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok, Mr. Orthodox Xtian,

It seems you have some experience in "healing" and claim that it works. You need to get your ass over to the nearest Children's Hospital ASAP, as there are a good number of xtian children with terrible sickneses. Some of which are incurable. Why no xtians ever even try to do this is beyond me. I read in the bible that Jesus says that once your filled with the "holy spirit" to go out into the world and raise the dead and heal the sick. If I actuallly experienced xtians doing this at the Childrens Hospital by my house I just may be a believer.

[Vixentrox]

Ok, Mr. Orthodox Xtian,

It seems you have some experience in "healing" and claim that it works. You need to get your ass over to the nearest Children's Hospital ASAP, as there are a good number of xtian children with terrible sickneses. Some of which are incurable. Why no xtians ever even try to do this is beyond me. I read in the bible that Jesus says that once your filled with the "holy spirit" to go out into the world and raise the dead and heal the sick. If I actuallly experienced xtians doing this at the Childrens Hospital by my house I just may be a believer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Why? Becuase they can't. They are full of shit. If they could they would. What better way to be a living testimony to thier gawd...but they cant.

[orthodox christian]

Because there is no truth in the American Chrsitianity!

 

The rest of the world has always used Chruch for healing, millions of people have been healed in all this time beginning from the time of Jesus! In Russia, before the revolution, every third person in the country was somewhat helped (healed or helped in another way) by a single christian, St. John of Krondstad. And after him there were many people who healed by prayer whoever asked them. St. John of Krondstad built hospitals and orphranages, he was very active. It's just ignorant and self-centered Americans and some Europeans who never realize what is going on in the world who say "Oh, they are hypocrites, they don't have the proof!". Nobody never heals? In the US, that is true, becasue the American religion is all BS throughout. You go to Greece, to Romania, you get healings all over the place! Everybody knows where to go if you get sick. And they get healed most of the time. And not only healed, there are friends and things found, future revealed, problems resolved. Healing is just a tiny part a Christian can do. Why don't all Christians heal? You say the Bible sais that if you believe, you can perform miracles. But didn't the Apostles themselves have little faith although they confessed Jesus Christ the Son of God and did not want to leave Him sacrifising their material well-being and sometimes even life? Christ always accused them of having little faith, and even said that such spirit is cast out by prayer and fasting. Who does fast today in Protestantism? Few? Barely. They surely fast in Orthodoxy and it strenthens the faith. The amount of faith you have matters, and it's not just confession of Jesus Christ. You need to have so much faith that you completely deny the self for the sake of God. And Jesus calles that a faith of the size of a mustard seed because wonderworking is not the summit of spiritual life, but the very beginning. Gosh, how can I explain this?

 

And that is not that we don't use doctors. We have pretty good doctors who can never think of putting mercury fillings in your teeth.

 

And noone actually wants to try the experiment? Then I don't want to hear any complains about not having any proof. You don't want the proof, that's what it is. You just like to accuse us of not having it just to make us look stupid. But when it comes to the real deal, you never care to honestly check if the guys are actually right. So much for outraged atheists. You just want to stay outraged. I never got any accpetable evaluation of the Holy Fire, who did actually watch all of the videos? Who can say that the fire does not burn you because maybe this or that? Who tried to explain? The fact is, you never care. Then don't tell me that you do.

[nightflight]

And noone actually wants to try the experiment? Then I don't want to hear any complains about not having any proof. You don't want the proof, that's what it is. You just like to accuse us of not having it just to make us look stupid. But when it comes to the real deal, you never care to honestly check if the guys are actually right. So much for outraged atheists. You just want to stay outraged. I never got any accpetable evaluation of the Holy Fire, who did actually watch all of the videos? Who can say that the fire does not burn you because maybe this or that? Who tried to explain? The fact is, you never care. Then don't tell me that you do.

 

Let's just say I've had enough of your god. I spent many years in guilt and fear because of the "good news". If your god is different, then why the hell didn't he let me know?

 

Hmm? I breathlessly await your answer.

[Fweethawt]

Because there is no truth in the American Chrsitianity!

 

The rest of the world has always used Chruch for healing, millions of people have been healed in all this time beginning from the time of Jesus! In Russia, before the revolution, every third person in the country was somewhat helped (healed or helped in another way) by a single christian, St. John of Krondstad. And after him there were many people who healed by prayer whoever asked them. St. John of Krondstad built hospitals and orphranages, he was very active. It's just ignorant and self-centered Americans and some Europeans who never realize what is going on in the world who say "Oh, they are hypocrites, they don't have the proof!". Nobody never heals? In the US, that is true, becasue the American religion is all BS throughout. You go to Greece, to Romania, you get healings all over the place! Everybody knows where to go if you get sick. And they get healed most of the time. And not only healed, there are friends and things found, future revealed, problems resolved. Healing is just a tiny part a Christian can do. Why don't all Christians heal? You say the Bible sais that if you believe, you can perform miracles. But didn't the Apostles themselves have little faith although they confessed Jesus Christ the Son of God and did not want to leave Him sacrifising their material well-being and sometimes even life? Christ always accused them of having little faith, and even said that such spirit is cast out by prayer and fasting. Who does fast today in Protestantism? Few? Barely. They surely fast in Orthodoxy and it strenthens the faith. The amount of faith you have matters, and it's not just confession of Jesus Christ. You need to have so much faith that you completely deny the self for the sake of God. And Jesus calles that a faith of the size of a mustard seed because wonderworking is not the summit of spiritual life, but the very beginning. Gosh, how can I explain this?

 

And that is not that we don't use doctors. We have pretty good doctors who can never think of putting mercury fillings in your teeth.

 

And noone actually wants to try the experiment? Then I don't want to hear any complains about not having any proof. You don't want the proof, that's what it is. You just like to accuse us of not having it just to make us look stupid. But when it comes to the real deal, you never care to honestly check if the guys are actually right. So much for outraged atheists. You just want to stay outraged. I never got any accpetable evaluation of the Holy Fire, who did actually watch all of the videos? Who can say that the fire does not burn you because maybe this or that? Who tried to explain? The fact is, you never care. Then don't tell me that you do.

 

I watched a lot of those videos. (the ones that would load anyway)

 

There weren't any balls of fire flying around and lighting everyone's candle. I saw no lighting but I did see what looked to be either camera flashes, or strobe light flashes. As far as the fire not burning, sure, when you have still photo of someone waving their hand through a flame with a smile on their face, it sure does look like it doesn't burn. The videos that I watched where people were waving their candles under their chins was authentic. I won't deny that. But I sure as heck didn't see anyone just holding the flame under their chin. They were just waving the candle from side to side. That's it! No magic at all.

 

 

Thanks anyway for your garbage, and thanks for finally answering the main question of this thread.

 

I do believe that this is one of the most honest, albeit evasive answers that we're going to get.

 

 

 

We don't see healings because every single Christian church and sect within the United States is not a True Church™. The miracles are happening everywhere else in the world except the U.S., and our proof of this is a bunch of shoddy pictures and videos of a large group of people taking part in a ritual.

[greygirl]

Because there is no truth in the American Chrsitianity!

 

So there's no truth in the Bible? That's where the basis of this thread came from.

 

And noone actually wants to try the experiment? Then I don't want to hear any complains about not having any proof. You don't want the proof, that's what it is. You just like to accuse us of not having it just to make us look stupid. But when it comes to the real deal, you never care to honestly check if the guys are actually right. So much for outraged atheists. You just want to stay outraged. I never got any accpetable evaluation of the Holy Fire, who did actually watch all of the videos? Who can say that the fire does not burn you because maybe this or that? Who tried to explain? The fact is, you never care. Then don't tell me that you do.

 

I've already agreed to try your experiment, despite the fact that you've already set it up as useless.

[Guest bdp]

You need to have so much faith that you completely deny the self for the sake of God.

 

I will never deny myself for anyone or anything ever again, that kind of thinking nearly destroyed me.

 

bdp

[Eccles1:2]

Nobody never (sic) heals? In the US, that is true, becasue (sic) the American religion is all BS throughout.

So, you rubbish American Christianity in the same way you accuse "outraged atheists" of rubbishing you.

 

Who does fast today in Protestantism? Few? Barely.

I'm afraid you seem to know little about Protestantism. Paul Yonggi Cho, the pastor of the world's largest Protestant church in Korea, promotes ubiquitous prayer and fasting in a way that a huge number of non-conformists in the West seek to emulate. I think maybe you're talking about churches like the Anglicans or Episcopalians, and I'm sure even many of them would claim they fast in some form.

 

The amount of faith you have matters, and it's not just confession of Jesus Christ. You need to have so much faith that you completely deny the self for the sake of God.

 

And noone actually wants to try the experiment? Then I don't want to hear any complains (sic) about not having any proof.

How can you ask people with no faith to try an experiment that involves having so much that you completely deny the self? The burden of proof must rest on those with the faith, not those without.

 

You don't want the proof, that's what it is. You just like to accuse us of not having it just to make us look stupid. But when it comes to the real deal, you never care to honestly check if the guys are actually right. So much for outraged atheists. You just want to stay outraged. I never got any accpetable evaluation of the Holy Fire, who did actually watch all of the videos? Who can say that the fire does not burn you because maybe this or that? Who tried to explain? The fact is, you never care. Then don't tell me that you do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Relax, dear orthodox christian, lest you begin to sound like those BS-toting American fundies you despise. I don't see any outrage in this thread from atheists; mostly cynicism, and a lot of interest in hearing your views.

 

For the record, I don't call myself an atheist. I am merely someone who feels that there are a lot of questions that need answering. I really posted this thread to give Western Christians the opportunity to answer a serious question about what their inerrant, infallible, inspired Holy Book says about the way they should conduct themselves. This has not occurred, and by the way, references to the Holy Fire are interesting but not germane to this issue. Your answers about personal healing seem to rely in some part on ritual and invoking the help of the dead; western christians might recognise this as "magic". How can those of us without faith make progress if different parts af the body of Christ on Earth can't even tolerate each other?

[Vixentrox]

So, how about that Western Xtians? Your religion is all false! Repent heathens and join Orthodox Christian in the TRUE religion!

[atheist_thinker]

It's all a statistical mind game. But if you like to take part in it then that fine.

 

A positive attitude does help release endorphins and lower cortisol. Stress is indueces more harm to a body then you think.

 

What about the people that were sick and were cured from prayer, did they have any influance on their condition? Was their mind palying tricks on them? Did they think they were sick but were really ok? Where is that one current person that had a medical problem and was cured by faith alone?

 

When there is a population of people that have little to no science education or basaic reasoning skills, rumors can really snowball into something different. Same mentality that see fairies and spirits. Superstions to them is science.

 

What obout all the people that still died when they were prayed for? Is that gods will or lack of sanitary conditions and real doctors?

 

I'm not trying to shoot any one down, inquireing minds would like to know, where is the documented peer review proof?

 

I'm still waiting on scientist to discover bigfoot, the lochness monster, atlantis and the the ark. By living in the 21st century, we would think that they would find some proof of these. We got satalites, cameras, you name it, all types of techno gadgets to see and measure things with, and we still have not found one fart of evidence.

 

I would love to beleive in faith healings, but I hate to inform you that faith healing is in the same catogory of superstious nonsense.

[SmallStone]

What do you think of the Holy Fire?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Would you be willing to douse yourself with gasoline and then be washed with the so-called holy fire?

[Loren]

OK, one brave soul.

 

Nightflight, we will have to use the simplified method because you don't have the holy oil which is better.

All you do is make the sign of the cross over your bed and pillow before you lie down to sleep. Here is how you make the sign of the cross: press the tips of three fingers -- the thumb, the pointer and the middle fingers -- together, and lay the other two on the palm. This should be the right hand. Draw the sign of the cross in the air with your hand folded like that over your bed and pillow. Draw the vertical bar first, and then the horisontal from left to right. You can cross yourself too, this way your three fingers put together should touch your forehead, your bellybotton, your right shoulder, and your left shoulder. You can do it three times just to make sure

 

This might not help you completely. In my case I still had some problems, and I asked my priest and he gave me holy oil. You can get that at an Orthodox Church in your area. Just call or e-mail the priest and say you need some holy oil. And if you get that, apply it right before going to bed. I can give you the directions (or the priest can).

 

Anyone else wants to try?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Please excuse the interruption, Eccles.

 

Does my decoder ring need to be in Latin and does my rabbit's foot need to be blessed?

[Reach]

Would you be willing to douse yourself with gasoline and then be washed with the so-called holy fire?

How much are the ringside seats or should I simply call for the men in the white coats?

[Lokmer]

Holy Fire????

 

 

I do special FX lighting on a semi-regular basis, and cinematography on a far more regular basis. This shit is EASY to pull off with less than $1000 worth of equipment. And anyone with an understanding of basic physics can see right off that the fire "washing" is easily accomplished at home. The clips I was able to download revealed nothing out of the ordinary, and a couple of them (played back frame by frame) revealed BULB REFLECTIONS in reflective surfaces for one or two of the "flashes." This is done with strobes and a computer - the didn't even use a tesla coil or genuine lightning (the light temp is wrong for "lightning" anyway).

 

Still, I hope I can see it in person someday - it looks like a hell of a light show.

 

-Lokmer

[Guest Believerdog]

Some Christians will say, "Healing is not for today."

 

To which I always say, "Why not? We have just as much need for healing today as we ever have had."

 

Signs and wonders will follow them that believe? Not that I've noticed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Are you really interested in the answer to this question? If so, I would be happy to address the topic.

[Totallyatpeace]

Please respond.

[Guest Believerdog]

Are you really interested in this topic? I would be happy to address this issue if you are serious about it.....