Dateline: To Catch A Predator

[Jubilant]

Has anyone seen this show? For the first time ever, dh and I watched Dateline: To Catch a Predator and it just didn't seem right to either of us and we are completely against sexual crimes against children. I actually felt sorry for these guys that were being arrested...some of which got there and didn't enter the house or premises because they decided that they didn't want to go through with sex with the *minor* (who they think are between the ages of 12-14) that they met via an online chat room. In case you haven't seen the show, there are companies that have adults posing as teens online in chatrooms, a "predator" starts a discussion with the child and then the conversation turns to sex and the *teen* willingly wants to have it and invites the "predator" to their home. With this sting, a couple of guys showed up and were hesitant about going inside and the girl greeted them and COAXED them in, "Its okay, no one is here, just you and I." A couple men chose not to come in and were STILL arrested. Another few fellows came in with gifts that were discussed online and one guy, when asked by the girl, "Did you bring condoms?" Answered, "No, I just thought we'd spend the day just getting to know one another, not to have sex." And he too was arrested. Most of these guys did not appear to be there to force sex on this girl, they were invited and some even seemed rather nice. One guy was a young 21yo, he thought to be having sex with a 13 yo.

 

Anyway, the guys are then greeted by Chris Hansen of Dateline and faced with tons of cameras in their face. He tells them that they can go and then are arrested by about 5-10 officers waiting outside the door.

 

How do you feel about this? Sometimes I think that we only call men who want sex with 12 yos and teens perverts because of what our culture defines as being a *child*. Maybe I'm in the wrong here, who knows, but as a mother child molesters make me sick...I didn't see these guys as molesters though.

[leftofpunk]

it's illegal to even solicit sex...the show has the chat logs with the soliciting in the conversations. The "teen" arranges a time to meet. If the guy shows up regardless if he goes through with it or even enters the house they have grounds to arrest. Simple as that.

 

I knew a guy that was caught in a similar sting and he didn't even go to the girls house. They were to meet at a 7-11 and he said he'd be bringing a large teddy bear. When he pulled up at the specified time the police stopped him, checked his backseat and there was the bear. He got caught, there were chat logs, there was intent and he got what he deserved.

[Ouroboros]

I think this show is taking justice a bit too far. But only somewhat, after all, these guys did respond and go to the house. My question is why the producers won't just go into all the local churches and interview the boys there? They probably would fill the show for many seasons forward.

 

This situation maybe isn't as bad as the guy that got dragged to court after having sex with a "lady" he met at a bar. She was drinking, but were under 18, so it was statutory rape. I heard an interview with him on radio, and eventhough I support the law in all these things, sometimes it just take the issues way too far and I felt sorry for the guy. After all, he assumed she was of age by her being at a bar drinking alcohol. Maybe there were more things to the story, but as it was presented, you start to wonder if the law isn't only blind but also stupid.

 

Society has defined what a child is, not biology, and it will take a couple of thousand years before the genetic makeup will mutate and adjust our species to conform to the law. After all, the child protective laws are (IIRC) less than 100 years old, and humans are still just advanced animals. We have to and should protect our children, and as a father these things are just as scary for me, but I'm also a realist and understand that nature doesn't abide to my wishes or my concerns and these guys won't change their DNA just because we have these laws in place.

 

I heard that this show was in trouble because one guy shot himself when they caught him (or was it another similar show?)

[Vigile]

I think Hans makes some very good points. As for me, I don't like the idea that they are sensationalizing it, but they did catch the guys red handed and the stings likely limit the number of guys who would attempt to seduce a young girl online.

 

The bigger issue is how do they punish these guys? Is a prison sentence involved? Surely they are labeled sex offenders (the bogey man of the 21st century) and have to wear the scarlet letter for life. I'm not sure the crime fits the punishment, but that's just me; I don't have a daughter.

[Ouroboros]

it's illegal to even solicit sex...the show has the chat logs with the soliciting in the conversations. The "teen" arranges a time to meet. If the guy shows up regardless if he goes through with it or even enters the house they have grounds to arrest. Simple as that.

Very true, except the predators didn't solicit the sex, it was the producers, and it's legal to do it if you are trying to create a trap. Do they show the chat logs in the show (I've never seen it) or have a officer doing the chatting? Because they have to maintain the chain of evidence and be able to prove the chat logs are authentic.

[Ouroboros]

I think Hans makes some very good points. As for me, I don't like the idea that they are sensationalizing it, but they did catch the guys red handed and the stings likely limit the number of guys who would attempt to seduce a young girl online.

Also very true. It works as scare tactics to make more of them abide to the law.

 

The bigger issue is how do they punish these guys? Is a prison sentence involved? Surely they are labeled sex offenders (the bogey man of the 21st century) and have to wear the scarlet letter for life. I'm not sure the crime fits the punishment, but that's just me; I don't have a daughter.

Since they didn't "go all the way" I assume they get a very reduced sentence. They probably will be flagged as sex offenders of first degree (I think it's called, or maybe it's called first level?) We checked the website a while ago for our neighborhood, and what I remember is that there's a three level or degree system. 1st level is very minor (like this show), and second level is more serious (but only one offense) and involves jail time, and the third level is the really dangerous one that involved more than one offense and rape etc.

 

I still can't figure out how society would react if they raised the "child" age from 18 to 20 or 21... would we automatically switch our brains and think that someone having sex with an 18 year old now suddenly is a pervert? I'm not sure... (It used to be no laws, then it was 9, then it was 12, then it was 16 and now it is 18... so who knows, if we live longer, the maturity age will also be moved)

[Taphophilia]

I watched this show with my kids. My kids did not feel sorry for any of the guys at all and felt they got what they deserved. They viewed an adult man going in a chat talking to a girl they believed 12-14 years old was enough to get them arrested. That alone was sick and depraved. I'd like to point out that my 15 y/o daughter considers a 21 y/o, an old man and found it sick that he'd be interested in a 13 y/o. They felt that a grown man being interested in a young teen girl for even a date, even without sex, is disgusting.

[Vigile]

One thing I was thinking in my response was this. It seems silly to me that we would treat a man who tries to gain a 15 yo girl's affection and consent by the same means another man might try and gain a 16 yo girl's affection and consent the same way we would a rapist or a child molester. I can see the need to draw a line somewhere and attempt to keep children from growing up before its time for them to grow up. I just see that there is a major difference between a consensual relationship and rape, even if one of the consentees is too young to think and act maturely. One of the differences is the trauma inflicted. Rape seems to me to be ohh so much worse than losing one's virginity too early to someone society says is too old for them.

[Lycorth]

The show is there for ratings and money, also. In the end, that's what matters. If no one watched, it wouldn't be there, no matter what else it purported to do.

 

My wife and I have watched numerous times, and generally get a laugh out of it. But then, I'm a cruel person and can laugh at the misfortune of someone who really fucks up and deserves the consequences, especially when it's some sicko who wants to pork a 13 year old.

 

But I've long pondered the idea of legal age. It's 18 in the States and, for example, 16 in the UK. I can visit the UK, chat up a 16 year old and fuck her, and I am to assume I wouldn't get in an ounce of trouble? In the US, fucking a 16 year old, no matter how consensual it is for all involved, would be highly illegal, yet that girl would be considered of legal adult age in the UK (and elsewhere). To me, it seems that adulthood is just another social construct, or at least our modern understanding of it.

 

Protecting children from growing up too soon and protecting them from predatory people who would do them great damage when they're not mature enough to handle certain things is naturally very important. But when does a child mature enough to be able to tackle adult topics - and activities?

[Taphophilia]

My oldest daughter is 17 and her boyfriend is 19. Technically, their relationship is illegal, even though my daughter for all intent and purposes is functioning as an adult. She lives on her own with roomates, works full time, supports herself and goes to school. My daughter is more mature at 17 then most people are at 25. She doesn't ever want children, nor does she want to get married. Though, she told me if she's still with her boyfriend when she's 30, she might consider getting married. She wants to move in with her boyfriend, which would be a much better situation for her, but she can't until she is 18. She's kept this relationship a secret from her dad's side of the family, because she doesn't want any problems. It doesn't seem to matter that she's functionally an adult, technically, until she's 18 she's a minor in the eyes of the law and her boyfriend is committing a crime.

[Vigile]

For some reason I thought legal age was 16. Probably because that's what it is here in Russia.

[Taphophilia]

I think the average American kid at 16 and the average Russian kid at 16 are far apart in terms of maturity.

[Vigile]

I'm not too sure about that. I can't say for certain, but they seem pretty much the same from my observation. Of course the only one I really know is my nephew, who is now 17 so my oberservations are mostly from afar.

 

Edit, the one big difference is school is a lot more demanding and they have class 6 days a week so they don't have as much free time. My poor nephew had to work like he was working on a graduate thesis just to pass his high school exams and get into college.

 

Other than that, their lives are surrounded by cell phones, MP3 players, and who likes who.

[bush country]

In the US the age of consent varies by state from 16 to 18 years old.

[Grandpa Harley]

In the UK - Age of consent -16 (both gay and straight. 17 in NI)

 

Legal age to smoke - 16

 

Army recruitment - 16 years 6 month (operational duties at 18)

 

Vote, and watch Die Hard - 18

[Llwellyn]

There but for the grace of my pecker go I.

[Ouroboros]

California is 18.

 

So for a 20 yo dating a 17 yo in CA, that is sick and depraved, and only predators do that!

[HuaiDan]

I don't know what the age of consent is in China, I don't care. If she's younger than 24 I'm not interested, unless she's really mature for her age.

[Ouroboros]

Is it also wrong for an older man (40) to date a younger woman (20)?

 

http://msn.match.com/msn/article.aspx?arti...6&GT1=10185

[Christine]

Is it also wrong for an older man (40) to date a younger woman (20)?

 

http://msn.match.com/msn/article.aspx?arti...6&GT1=10185

 

There is nothing wrong with that in my opinion. This will probably freak some people out but my dad was 28 years older than my mom.

[Grandpa Harley]

Harrison Ford - Calista Flockheart (sp)

 

Michael Douglas - Catherine Zeta-Jones

 

The case for the prosecution rests...

[Ouroboros]

There is nothing wrong with that in my opinion. This will probably freak some people out but my dad was 28 years older than my mom.

But there's a lot of people that think it's disgusting. So eventhough it isn't illegal, some think it's rather sick.

[Ouroboros]

The case for the prosecution rests...

It's only okay when the actors do it...

[Vigile]

Harrison Ford - Calista Flockheart (sp)

 

Michael Douglas - Catherine Zeta-Jones

 

The case for the prosecution rests...

 

Me and my fantasies

[Christine]

There is nothing wrong with that in my opinion. This will probably freak some people out but my dad was 28 years older than my mom.

But there's a lot of people that think it's disgusting. So eventhough it isn't illegal, some think it's rather sick.

 

I feel like I have to defend my parents relationship now. She was 28 and he was 56 when they got married. It wasn't sick or disgusting. Some people are more mature than others, some are more youthful. Sometimes the age difference doesn't matter.