What God " Really " Meant

[R. S. Martin]

His eisegesis tells him it's wrong....

 

You've used that word so much, Gramps, that I finally looked it up in Answers.com. Reading one's own ideas into the text, esp. the biblical text. That is the main definition given.

 

Hey Ruby. Or.. it could be walking by faith for what someone believes.

 

 

That would still be your own idea.

[Neon Genesis]

Actually. No, I just thought it was stupid and made Christians look insane.

Translation: Those aren't "real" Christians, but I'm a "real" Christian, so instead of taking responsibility for the fanatics my religion creates, I'm going to disown them as being "fake" Christians, so come join my death cult because it's the "real" one! Tehehehe!

 

So, yes as a Christian. I acknowledged the injustice of this situation and voiced my thought to it. Were the Muslims just 'blowing there horn' when educating the Americans of the different sects of Islam, when they wanted to kill them all?

This question makes no fucking sense.

 

It was wrong for that girl to die, and as a believer of Christ, prayer, and faith in God; I voiced my thought of stupidity and lack of common sense of the parents.

So, why didn't God do anything to help her? What's the fucking use of prayer if it can't help people?

[The-Captain]

They say it is a sign of the insane to only talk to yourself.

 

I call this "irony"

 

I wonder if asking a question and getting upset if someone answers the question is another sign of insanity?

 

You didn't answer my question... Instead you just got all snide and insulting, upset are we?

 

I also wonder why atheists and ex-Christians talk about Christians being exclusive and closed minded, and yet, they only want to hear from their own kind and have no respect for the beliefs or opinions of those who are different from them. Some call this being a bigot instead of being open minded, but I guess it is just semantics.

 

This is why some would call you a troll, you jump into a discussion and fire off with your opinion in a mildly "preachy" tone, then when people counter your points you tend to respond with some high handed "You may not like it sinners, but thats the way it is" talk. Then we get to this part, the part where you get insulting. I realize you've received you're fair share of insults, but now you're insulting the lot of us.

 

I sincerely hope you all find what you are looking for in life.

 

I would reply with something similar, but it would be as insincere as I suspect this is....

[R. S. Martin]

Has the HS finally gotten through to God Boy that he's wasting his time?

[Grandpa Harley]

I think the dummy has been spat...

[florduh]

Never fails to amaze me. Most people here arrive at their major conclusions by thoughtful analysis of the facts and whatever logic they can muster.

 

Yet, some True Believers think their interpretation of the Bible will suddenly make us stop thinking and say, "Wow! I never saw God's word that way before!"

 

Faith always arrives unarmed in a battle of reason.

 

Yet they come.

 

- Chris

[Ouroboros]

...

You've used that word so much, Gramps, that I finally looked it up in Answers.com. Reading one's own ideas into the text, esp. the biblical text. That is the main definition given. I read some more. I thought I knew exactly who did exegesis (deriving meaning from the text) and who did eisegesis (reading one's own ideas into the text). Then I came to a part that said everybody accuses their opponents of doing eisegesis. Yeah right--as though I needed to be told, and I did. Everyone needs to sling mud because that's just the way humans are, it seems. The Catholics think Holy Tradition is the One Right Way. The Jews think Christians cannot possibly read Jesus into the OT without doing eisegesis. And so it goes on down the line.

...

 

Hey Ruby. Or.. it could be walking by faith for what someone believes.

Yoyo, that's quite an entertaining response. What someone "believes" is what that someone "think" or "have opinion" about, basically, it is a personal view on things concerning the spiritual. Now if you say that you read your Bible based on your belief, then you strongly admit and agree that your interpretation of the Bible is a eisegesis, i.e. you read your belief into the text, instead of the text give you what to believe. In other words, your response isn't an "...or..." response, but rather "...yes, indeed..." Do yo understand the details of my argument? You are not giving another view to Ruby's statement, but rather you agree and only give her another word for the same thing she talked about.

[Ouroboros]

...

I also wonder why atheists and ex-Christians talk about Christians being exclusive and closed minded, and yet, they only want to hear from their own kind and have no respect for the beliefs or opinions of those who are different from them. Some call this being a bigot instead of being open minded, but I guess it is just semantics.

...

Well, you don't want me to generalize, and so shouldn't you. I talk to people about my no-faith, and I try my hardest to be generous in discussions on this board, regardless of faith or religious idiocy. It's only when people respond and behave stupid that I take the road down the ad-homin-land. Now, do you consider a person like me being part of the broad stroke statement you made?

 

I sincerely hope you all find what you are looking for in life.

Here's the interesting part. As some might have noticed, I don't participate as much as I did, say a year ago. Other members before me have gone through the same process, and people most active now will too one day, which is that you have a time when you need to let it all out and talk about it all and figure out things, and sometime do this through very agressive or emotional discussions, but over time - just like me - you do find yourself, but become less active in discussion. I am, and many other silent voices on this site, are the evidence that we do find what we're looking for in life. The ones you mostly face here Kratos, are the ones that are still in the process of finding themselves. Do you understand the difference? You're mostly talking to those who still are processing their de-conversion, while the ones that have come to some inner peace, are not participating as much.

 

I have changed a lot the last couple of years. I have found more knowledge and rationality through my de-conversion, and a stronger and more peacful me. So I'm changing, almost by the minute, and taking new approaches and move on... what about you? How much have you changed the last year or so being on this site? Are you the same jack-ass or have you grown in the "spirit" or "in the Lord" at all, or is your life just SSDD? (same shit, different day)

 

Personally I talked to a Christian just two days ago about my non-belief. And I was strong, peaceful, confident and careful in my dialogue with him, because I know how sensitive the issue is, and how easy people get offended just by someone else not believing the same things. I told him that I considered God and Christianity nothing more than believing in Santa Clause, and he was shocked (I could tell), but not hurt or rejecting my "testimony". I have even met and talked to Christians that visit this website, and try my best to connect with people to make them see that the world is larger and more complex than they think. To simplify life by a default answer or a handbook written before modern time, is to cheat oneself of the ability to search for truth and understanding, and I want people to keep their faith, but to adjust it to allow the truths of nature be part of their belief structure. If their religion deny the reality, then the religion does not explain the world or life, it destroys the ability to see clearly. Keep your religion, but make sure that it actually does fit reality.

[Grandpa Harley]

He's not been back since the dummy was spat out... TBH, there was nothing to 'respect' and there certainly was no 'respect' forthing coming... just a lot of self aggrandising bullshit and condescension...

[Onyx]

Farewell, Kratos our dear scabrous ex-EXC-troll.

[Neon Genesis]

He'll likely be back whenever he gets a new "revelation" from his invisible sky daddy. After all, he has to save all these gays and uppity women here from the wrath of God.

[R. S. Martin]

I'm tickled pink by the term uppity women. Don't know where it came from. Makes me think of a stylish Victorian lady in a big fancy hat pouting because she didn't get her way. That's not Deva or white raven or any woman on these forums that I know of. We're not Victorian ladies and we don't wear big fancy hats, and most importantly we know more effective ways to get our needs met than pouting.

[Deva]

Ruby I could be wrong but I think its a southern U.S. expression that at one time was used toward black women by white men who found them not subservient enough.

 

Like Rosa Parks when she wouldn't give up her seat on the bus was being "uppity."

[florduh]

"Uppity" originated late 19th Century in the slave states. "Uppity Nigger" was the term for a black person, slave or former slave, who was behaving through speech or deed above their station in life. It simply means arrogant or self important now.

 

I believe it impossible for anyone to be uppity, as I see everyone as intrinsically equal.

 

- Chris

[Grandpa Harley]

"Uppity" and "hoity-toity" were both 19th C words

 

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/uppity

 

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hoity-toity

 

and both in use on both sides of the Atlantic...

[Deva]

I believe it impossible for anyone to be uppity, as I see everyone as intrinsically equal.

 

Yes Chris, I agree but unfortunately not everyone sees women as intrinsically equal with men and Kratos was one of them. So I used the word "uppity woman" to taunt him. It's not one I often use because of the slave/master connotation.

[florduh]

Deva, some men you don't want to be equal to!

 

- Chris

[Grandpa Harley]

So folk you can't be 'equal' to without climbing down to their level

[R. S. Martin]

"Uppity" and "hoity-toity" were both 19th C words

 

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/uppity

 

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hoity-toity

 

and both in use on both sides of the Atlantic...

 

Hoity-toity rings a bell. I've read novels with that term. I'm quite sure I've seen uppity in novels, too. Strangely, novels about upper-class Victorian families were considered to be edifying reading material where I came from. I see a lot of parallels between the horse and buggy Mennonite-Amish culture and lifestyle and that of the late-nineteenth century Victorian upper-class.

 

That this makes the Mennonites the rich in the land does not enter their heads; in their minds they are the German peasants--the outcasts of society. In reality, they are a tourist attraction and they thrive on it in many ways. Gloat is probably an understatement, when you hear them repeating over the pulpit in their sermons what a bright light they are to surrounding society. They present as their evidence things outsiders have said to them about respecting them for their example.

 

One thing used to bother me. If these outsiders truly respected us, why didn't they live the same way we did? Since they did not live the same way, I wondered in my own heart of hearts, were their comments really as sincere as the preachers took them to be? This was important in order to know if the Bible was true. The Bible said to let our light shine. But was our way of life really a light as the preachers said? These same preachers said that outsiders said they respected our way of life. There was really no way to be sure any of this was true. Why didn't outsiders ever say any of this stuff to me? The few times they did, did not sound at all convincing.

 

Then when I left the church, suddenly I heard a very different voice from outsiders. Something told me that "different voice" was the true and genuine voice. It was not a happy voice at all and I could tell that outsiders did not at all respect my people. They had deluded themselves and were blowing their own horns. Recently I used the words "lovingly hateful" to describe the attitude to someone. That person instantly identified. She lived next to horse and buggy neighbours for twenty years and was told that she shouldn't run on Sunday. As though that made any sense--these Mennonites played baseball on Sunday. I guess this person just needed to exercise power or something "lovingly hateful."

 

Anyway, that's what God "really" meant. If you're in doubt, all you have to do is ask an Old Order Mennonite.

[R. S. Martin]

There! now I've blashemed the holy spirit. I never knew he was an old order mennonite. Now I know it. May he die for all eternity in the endless fires of hell.

[chefranden]

...Then when I left the church, suddenly I heard a very different voice from outsiders. Something told me that "different voice" was the true and genuine voice. It was not a happy voice at all and I could tell that outsiders did not at all respect my people. They had deluded themselves and were blowing their own horns. Recently I used the words "lovingly hateful" to describe the attitude to someone. That person instantly identified. She lived next to horse and buggy neighbours for twenty years and was told that she shouldn't run on Sunday. As though that made any sense--these Mennonites played baseball on Sunday. I guess this person just needed to exercise power or something "lovingly hateful."

 

My mother once praised a Mennonite woman for the good behavior of her children. Good behavior in children is something my mother admired. It's pursuit caused me much carnal knowledge of a large wooden spoon on my tender young ass.

 

When I was a Christian I envied the Amish for their simple and devoted life style. Mind you I didn't know any Amish personally. Nevertheless, I wanted to be one. I was given to understand that they didn't take recruits. I'm sure my wife would have divorced me if I had managed it.

[R. S. Martin]

I think what you are saying is that from the outside it appears simple. It seems that the neighbours and professionals who work with these people see a seedy underside that is anything but simple and ideal.

 

Good thing you didn't fall for it, Chef. There's good and happy moments but you can find those at the beach or park, too, without your year's income depending on your every move. For people who are successful and fit in, it's a decent life. Even so, I see far too many unhappy people--the sacrifice for religion is simply too great.

[Saviourmachine]

I was born into religion and raised a Roman Catholic. I followed along and believed what I was taught, but I did not know God or that He existed. I just believed that He did.

 

When I was about 15 and my parents divorced so my Mom could not make me go to church anymore, I quit going and "deconversion" followed almost immediately. I went through High School and college and beyond as an agnostic though still interested in religion and searching for truth.

 

I was 28 years old when God was revealed to me. I could just as easy say "Why did I have to go through so much hell until I was 28 to know God? Why did other people get to know Him as children, but I didn't?"

 

God will be revealed to all men in their order. That is the truth as I understand it. It is totally different from believing through a religion and knowing by experience. I cannot complain that it took so long until I knew or boast because I did not have to wait longer. I am just glad that I finally did know and just as glad to know that everyone ever made will also one day know. God is no respector of persons, but the timing or our knowing He keeps in His hads.

 

John

Hey Kratos. so you converted again to xianity because of your own feelings, following your own heart. That depicts you as a curious person, and curiosity is one of the greatest virtues someone may have. So, I guess it even more applies to you in that case! To really go into that relation with god and discover if he is real, for real. To be honest with yourself. To really go into all the arguments that people like the ones on this site have against xianity, against xian concepts, against general metaphysical phenomena. I am far too stupid to play for a psychologist, and I dont say you need one. :-) I don't have to tell you what makes you really happy. Everybody finds it out for himself. I know from myself that it is what I told you. To rebuild my own life from scratch, and continue to refine that forever! Tthe immense depths of mysterious things that are not known yet, the very challenging people that I know and am gonna met. Life is there, for you! The shorter, the more valuable!