Most Annoying Non-x-tian Religion

[WilliamFWN]

BTW your comparison of hell concepts is specious too, in Christian thought Hell is for ever, not simply a phase (which was Theravada initially, but features in the later streams of religious Buddhist and lifted direct from Hindu thought... there is little evidence that the Buddha was stating anything other than Allegory... and you're right, the statuary thing is bollocks too... it's a Greek thing that came to India from the West before the rise of Rome...

 

 

>>> How is it specious. When one is in hell, all nine levels of them, one is still in there for a LONG time, and then there's still the many painful reincarnations of sufferance, (hence the caste system, that poor people deserve to be poor, and sickly, and live in the S, because they did something bad in a life time). So therefore Buddhism is a fear based system. It's saying that if you don't free your mind from the Matrix (using modern pop culture references here), if you remain in the the world of illusions (life), and not free your mind, and reach nirvana, subsequently becoming a Buddha yourself. You stuck in the "Machine" of the Wheel of Dharma for yet another life time, until you get it right. So there fore adherents would concentrate on thier meditation and other excercises to break them from this chain of reincarnations, and only the priests and the monestary, can guide them.... a control mechanism.

 

So in this day and age of internet enlightenment we should be focusing on getting rid of such Specious belief systems that instill fear, of it's my way (God, Buddha's), or the high way...... to hell. That's a very big motivator, for a non existant place.

 

So we rag on Catholic nuns freaking out children with stories of hell, but we don't rag on Buddhists freaking out children with graphic pictures of Oni demons torturing them to death.... kind of hyprocritical.

To jump in here, he does have a point.

 

Why do we "rag on Catholic nuns" without also pointing out the foolishness of Buddhism?

 

I think part of this is proximity, while the other can be simply due to the fact that we interpret it as less harmful and toxic in its current iteration than Christianity in the states.

 

I also think part of it is that the "religion" of Buddhism can be accepted more as a philosophy, similar to the way Schopenhauer used it, rather than an actual faith. This is why we can see defenders of Buddhism, while no one hops in to guard Scientology's positions or exalts the merits of Islam. Scientology is something most can clearly see as bunk, while Islam is just another religion.

 

The point I'm trying to make, I guess, is that all viewpoints are worthy of criticism, because all viewpoints become hypocrisy unless one has one's own view. Without that, we will find yet more "defenders of the faith" (whatever that faith is). Perhaps I mean not to accept anything wholesale (not even Nietzsche!). And perhaps no one did, and I thought otherwise, but all religions can be interpreted in whatever way we want them to (somethings that should be learned from the many splinters of Christianity). When reading religious scripture, the reader is more important than the actual thing being read.

 

The thing is that when he has attacked Buddhism, he has attacked the form that he understands, and everyone defending it has been defending the form that he or she understands. There are no right or wrong interpretations - just different ones.

[Grandpa Harley]

It's clear he really understands nothing much, since he's mixing Hindu thought with Theravada, Mahayana and Vajrayana streams and doesn't seem to understand the differences between the three strands either...

 

On average a Soto Zen 'buddhist' doesn't give a rat's ass about the Dalai Lama's opinion... rather like a Gelugpa doesn't much care about Suzuki's opinions... Thich Naht Hanh's lot probably don't take that much interest in either. The commentary is just a mix of stuff noone much likes, but I don't see any system being perfect. Comparisons with the the RCC are specious, as is the Hell comparison (forever is not a 'very long time'... it's forever... )

 

The portrayal of the Chinese in Tibet as 'good' says a lot about the commentator's mind set. No medieval country is 'nice' by modern standards, and Tibet was no exception... but the idea that systematic torture and sub-genocidal behaviour is somehow an 'advance' is something like a psychosis...

[Guest Zenobia]

Fascinating discussion guys... I've been learning a lot about Buddhism from reading your various perspectives.

 

I'm going to step in and say that I believe ALL religious dogmas are flawed. They all have a few good ideas which they throw into the blender with a bunch of backward, biggotted, insane fucking ideas, mix it all up and pour us a margarita of stupid.

 

I've been an ex-christian for going on 20 years now. I've had a LOT of time to reflect back on what I hated about my church and what I hate about churches today. I've explored many beliefs outside of christinsanity and I've found flaws (and flawed people) in every single one of them.

 

You have to pick and choose from the whole plethora of human thought, hold onto the good ideas and throw the rest away. And you can't count on the "bartender" to do that for you - you have to mix the cocktails yourself.

 

Forgive me if I overused the metaphore, I was having fun with it.

 

I call myself a "pagan" because it's a very generalized term which applies to any of the "old" religions which are not xtian, zionist, islamic, buddhist, etc. But that doesn't mean I subscribe to everything by any means. And it doesn't mean I get along with all other pagans either. I've found that pagans can be just as self-righteous, judgemental, hypocritical and HURTFUL as people in any other belief system.

 

The problem is, people. period. We as a species have a long way to go IMHO. We are still very barbaric, self-destructive and cruel. I used to be a huge believer in space travel, in exploring other worlds... but these days I don't think humans are ready to go to other planets. We'd just do the same thing we've done all through history, invade, kill, persecute, etc. We need about 2 billion more years of evolution IMHO...

 

Sometimes I wish I could just go live in a cave away from all people. Unfortunately, I am cursed with the same herd-instinct most humans have.

[MesaGman]

As far as you holding yourself out as an expert on Tibetan history - sorry, its very hard for me to believe that an invading Chinese army that killed thousands of people and destroyed a centuries old way of life (whether you approve of it or not) is in any way a good thing. That doesn't mean we have a Shangra-La view - you seem to have so many preconceived ideas and prejudices.

 

>>> after the cultural revolution. The Chinese have rebuilt Chinese Buddhist temples, Tibetan Chinese Temples, and now lets Christian churches into the country, and have made appologies that the genocide happened. Also, Tibetans wern't the only victims of China's cultural revolution.. I'm not the expert of Tibetan history. I just posted what I found on the internet, from a credible source. but, monks in Lasha are allowed to practice Buddhism. There are even Chinese adherents who make the pilgrimage to Lasha! The Shaolin temple has been restored, and the Chinese use it as an example of Chinese cultural pride. But then Richard Grier's actor's guild has neglected to mention that right?

[MesaGman]

But whether or not Gautama actually existed or not wasn't my question, I was asking what you found so terrible about the underlying philosophy. Instead I get a long diatribe about whether Gautama existed or not and essentially accusing those of us interested in Buddhism of a kind of hypocrisy for leaving Christianity. I don't accept this relation. The 4 Noble Truths and the Eightfold Path - what's wrong with it, if you care to directly answer this question?

 

>>> Let me answer your question with another question Deva.... if you're so adamant in defending a religion based on it's doctrines of love. Why not the Gosple? Jesus taught 2 noble truths: Love God, and love everyone. what's wrong with that? Jesus did miracles, like heal lepers. Actually I'm not accusing anybody of anything. I only merely mentioned the reasons of why I checked on Buddhism on the poll (this is a poll after all), of which non Christian religions made us wish we were on Mars. I merely mentioned why I check Buddhism. based on it's stance on homosexualism, and it's similarities to Christianity (in regards to hell), Harley, mentioned that this is a false fallacy, based on Christians believe hell is forever. while Buddhism states that one can climb out of Maya's realm of illusions (hell). Hell is still hell Harley, and to inspire fear to believe in a religion using a realm of freaky monsters hurting you isn't love. But anyways, to answer your question Deva. I have nothing against Buddhists, they can believe what they want. I merely just listed the reasons why I refuse to dig deeper into Buddhism because I find it's fear inspiring tactics distastefully similar to Christianity's. and consider that both suck and are not worth my time. I want to spend my time, inspiring hope and love, you know the GOOD parts of the 8 fold path, or the GOOD parts of Jesus's 2 commandments.

 

As Bill and Ted said it the best "Be Excellent to Each Other". I just feel it's time for me to grow up and stop playing with imaginary friends, would it be the super friends. (a parody of the religious characters, as DC comics super heroes). I feel that my talents are best served by being a humanist and using logic to rationalize a better world... ironically one which Christianity and Buddhism has a goal to create.

 

Buddhism belongs in the realm of imaginary religions, why does anyone need imaginary beings to justify being good? or 8 fold paths, or Salvation? Why can't they do good for the sake of doing good, regardless of religion? This is Metahumanism and I'm very excited for Metahuman developments.

[Kuroikaze]

I merely mentioned why I check Buddhism. based on it's stance on homosexualism, and it's similarities to Christianity (in regards to hell), Harley, mentioned that this is a false fallacy, based on Christians believe hell is forever. while Buddhism states that one can climb out of Maya's realm of illusions (hell). Hell is still hell Harley, and to inspire fear to believe in a religion using a realm of freaky monsters hurting you isn't love.

 

Just to chime in, I've studied Buddhism a bit, and the one thing I see is that it is very diverse, not all Buddhists take this stance on homosexuality, and many Buddhists are agnostics/atheists, so they don't actually believe in a god who sends people anywhere, and most don't even believe in life after death in any sense that westerners would recognize.

 

A guy named Jun used to post here a lot, he is a Zen Buddhists and about as atheist as it gets.

 

But anyways, to answer your question Deva. I have nothing against Buddhists, they can believe what they want. I merely just listed the reasons why I refuse to dig deeper into Buddhism because I find it's fear inspiring tactics distastefully similar to Christianity's. and consider that both suck and are not worth my time. I want to spend my time, inspiring hope and love, you know the GOOD parts of the 8 fold path, or the GOOD parts of Jesus's 2 commandments.

 

Just my opinion, but to me refusing to dig deeper into "X" is always a bad move, we usually find our first impressions of things were wrong when we dig deeper. After all, didn't we all abandon Christian belief because we "dug deeper?"

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Buddhism is "perfect," but it isn't as bad as you seem to think either.

 

As Bill and Ted said it the best "Be Excellent to Each Other". I just feel it's time for me to grow up and stop playing with imaginary friends, would it be the super friends. (a parody of the religious characters, as DC comics super heroes). I feel that my talents are best served by being a humanist and using logic to rationalize a better world... ironically one which Christianity and Buddhism has a goal to create.

 

Most Buddhists do not find humanism or logic to be incompatible with their beliefs.

 

Buddhism belongs in the realm of imaginary religions, why does anyone need imaginary beings to justify being good? or 8 fold paths, or Salvation? Why can't they do good for the sake of doing good, regardless of religion? This is Metahumanism and I'm very excited for Metahuman developments.

 

Buddhism is not a theistic religion, no where in its teachings does it use a belief in god to prop up its moral precepts. Doing "good" is achieved through hard work not dependence on gods. And the reward is enlightenment, not escape from punishment after death.

 

Again, not claiming Buddhism is perfect, but what you are suggesting is simply not the way Buddhism is for the most part.

 

Even Nietzsche actually complimented Buddhism in "the anti-Christ," And Nietzsche wasn't known for complimenting religion.

[MesaGman]

interesting thoughts Kuroikaze, I didn't know that Buddhism was atheism. yea guess I didn't dig deeper enough. But my point I tried to make, was why do we need "isms" ideologies and dogma, would it be socialism, Christianism, or Moslemism. In this day and age of technologly and global interdependence, why not aim towards not for spritual refinement, but modern socitial refinement. Who cares who is right or wrong. These dogmatic tit for tat fighting of religions have been going on for thousands of years, while the IMPORTANT topics, such as infant mortality, or health care, or solving the food problem goes neglected.

 

Now Earth is a dying drying up toxic land of toxic crap, nuclear missles that might shoot on their own due to some error in computer code... All because we can't get along with our imaginary friends.

 

Just a question, why do Koreans-Japanese-and Chinese fight wars if we're all Buddhists, OR why did France and Germany and Spain fight all those wars of colonization, when they're all CATHOLIC countries. clearly humanism, would lump everyone as Humans to be valued, and concentrate on valuing people. no?

[Kuroikaze]

interesting thoughts Kuroikaze, I didn't know that Buddhism was atheism. yea guess I didn't dig deeper enough.

 

On one side there are the Tibetan Buddhists who are polytheists, the gods worshiped there are hold overs from earlier polytheistic religions that existed before Buddhism came to Tibet.

 

On the other extreme would be Zen Buddhists, they aren't all strictly atheists, the way they would put it is that if one asks the question "is there a god" one is already following the wrong path. Enlightenment is about pursing an end to human suffering, and knowing the answer to that question will not further this goal.

 

Just a question, why do Koreans-Japanese-and Chinese fight wars if we're all Buddhists, OR why did France and Germany and Spain fight all those wars of colonization, when they're all CATHOLIC countries. clearly humanism, would lump everyone as Humans to be valued, and concentrate on valuing people. no?

 

I guess the answer to your first question is that wars are fought for many reasons other than religion.

 

For instance European countries fought wars over colonization because they wanted the wealth and power that came from obtaining resources from colonies, this was in part due to believing in mercantilism.

 

Religion is just another way some people use to divide people into "us" and "them" but there are plenty of other ways to do it as well.

 

I agree with what you said about humanism, and with what you said about the use of labels. I don't know we could ever count on the majority of people thinking this way though, and I personally doubt that getting rid of religion would stop people from acting selfishly, at best we might be able to say "one problem down, ten million to go"

[MesaGman]

you know Kuro, that's why I didn't dig deep into Buddhism, or religion for that matter, too many competing sects. I eventually picked one Christian sect, Mormonism. and fuck there are splinter sects from that as well. (some of the polygamist communes are individual sects), the LDS church being be biggest sect. It really confused me. So that was reason for me to put Buddhism as an annoying non Christian religion, because it suffers from the exact hangups as other religions. And my time on Earth is short. I want to spend it non mired in a muck of confusion. I see modernization such as the internet, the forum for example, excellent ways to procreate knowledge, and hoped that humanism and a new Paradigm shift. For example. I'm very encouraged that more countries are debating allowing gay marriages, and quite proud that Canada was the 3rd country to do so.

 

But with the Dali Lama against same sex marriage, people tend to listen to him, as being a wise and compassionate leader. It hampers progress. with humanism Asians can evolve beyond petty tribalism, I hope to see, Chinese Japanese, and Koreans get along instead of Koreans being the middle the middle child between two bratty selfish brothers. Like how long is this animosity going to last? another 10,000 years?

 

We could evolve our minds and use that 90% that we don't use. and create a race, that is worthy for everyone to walk up to and "Namaste" at each other's majestic presence. world, Call me a sentimental naieve little shit fag, I don't care, but ask this what is better, continue to be a smelly trogyldyte that screechs and throws shit, or be a person who can walk upright, and help use their intelligence to come up with creative solutions to the worlds' problems.

 

There's a man in the states who wants to build farming sky scrapers. Why not spend our intelligence doing something like this instead of argue semantics right? There are bigger fish to fry.

[Deva]

Let me answer your question with another question Deva.... if you're so adamant in defending a religion based on it's doctrines of love. Why not the Gosple?

 

I don't think I said I was defending it based on its doctrines of love - although any doctrine that did advocate more love in this world would get a thumbs up from me.

 

There you go again continuing to draw your parallels with Christianity. Sure they exist, but many dissimilarities exist also. Buddhism isn't the same religion. Some think it isn't a religion at all. Please believe anything you like. The only reason some of us responded was that your views on Buddhism were not accurate. You admit you didn't want to go into it very deeply, so no wonder your assessment of Buddhism is inaccurate and incomplete.

 

Just to chime in, I've studied Buddhism a bit, and the one thing I see is that it is very diverse, not all Buddhists take this stance on homosexuality, and many Buddhists are agnostics/atheists, so they don't actually believe in a god who sends people anywhere, and most don't even believe in life after death in any sense that westerners would recognize.

 

Thank you for that statement Kuroikaze. I was trying to say something to this effect before about the diversity of Buddhism but wasn't getting through very well.

[Rev R]

Indeed thank you Kaze. It is good that we are finally making a little headway here.

 

One thing I wanted to comment on was the "myth of Buddha". As Bodhidharma (the founder of Zen) said, this mind is Buddha. It doesn't really matter if Gautama is a myth or if Gautama was a real person.

 

Unlike other religions that teach you to believe a doctrine in spite of your experience, the Dharma encourages those who practice it to mold it, shape it, and evolve it in accordance to the world in which you live. It is a point that many Buddhists forget (thus making some of your criticisms very valid GMan). They get tied up in the cultural trappings, the rituals, the ceremonies and forget the teachings.

[Evolution_beyond]

So I have a question for you. Why is it ok for the Dali Lama to be homophobic,

 

It isn't.

 

But I don't blame the philosophical system called Buddhism for what the Dalai Lama says. It wasn't a very Buddhist thing to say.

[Evolution_beyond]

>>> Yet we post lots of stuff against Christianity, based on what their individual pastors had said. We call Christian war mongering haters, and often make posts about individual sects ie. Warren Wells, or the Pope and call ALL Catholics child abusing pedophiles.... interesting.

 

No the problem with Christianity is that it doesn't make sense and the beliefs it encourages are dangerous beliefs that lead people to behave in an intolerant manner.

 

Surely you can understand the difference between a good philosophy with some bad followers and a bad philosophy that encourages people to be bad.

[Evolution_beyond]

>>> Buddhism fails for me because it's core doctrines are repulsive, untrue and immoral...

 

I disagree

 

Even though such as with Islam, or Christianity, it promotes peace and compassion. It's followers however do not.

 

The MAJORITY do.

 

Also I fail to see how Islam or Christianity promote peace and compassion. Peace and compassion for the few - but hellfire and judgement for everybody else.

[Evolution_beyond]

here's a thought I want to ask you guys.

 

Buddhism, the Pali Cannon, also has a hell and a demon Maya. Sooo, if we discount the existence of the Christian hell and Satan, why do we not apply these same critical thinking to Buddhism.

 

I do. There are traditional Buddhist beliefs that I don't subscribe to. From what I understand Buddhism encourages you to think for yourself. Anything that isn't part of the core doctrine (4 noble truths, eightfold path) is open to interpretation.

 

Those who don't free themselves from self, and ego reliance, are doomed to Buddhist hell (and don't tell me there isn't. I've seen wayyy to many Hong Kong martial arts movies that indicate otherwise). I scientifically refuse to believe in the existence of hell Christian or Buddhism. But, for this reason alone, this fear mongering makes Buddhism equalivent to Christianity no? Infact more on the Buddhist hell (there are 9 levels of it, and there are graphic details of what happens in each of them). So you refuse to believe in the Christian hell, (otherwise you guys would be Christian and since this is EX-Christian website), yet why do you believe in the same unprovable existence of Buddhism hell.

 

I don't believe in Buddhist hell. And btw the Buddhist hell is temporary. That makes it slightly different to the Christian hell.

 

You accuse the Christians of having the ability to have selective logic based on faith. But then it's ok in Buddhism.

 

I subscribe to the basic core teachings of Buddhism - but am highly sceptical about the rest of it. What is wrong with that? I am not affiliated to any church or organisation so I am free to pick and choose as I will. But I won't agree that Buddhism is inherently harmful or dangerous because I don't see it that way - and I find the basic teachings of Buddhism to be helpful.

 

Why is that? (honest question), if Buddhism is such a beautiful belief, why would a bi sexual like me be an abomination?

 

I'm bisexual too. I don't agree with the Dalai Lama. But that's ok - he's not boss of the Buddhist faith. No one is.

[Grandpa Harley]

Ajahn Brahm, the spiritual leader of the Buddhist Society of WA , on the view of the Dalai Lama's comment

 

The Dailai Lama was out of line when he said: "If you are a Buddhist, homosexuality is wrong. Full stop" (according to your article, A god in exile, 15/4).

 

The Dalai Lama is not the "Pope" of Buddhism and, charming as he often is, he sometimes gets it wrong. He is only the head of one of the four main sects of Vajrayana (Tibetan Buddhism) and he speaks only for his group.

 

Most Buddhists throughout the modern world are inspired to learn that the Buddha did not discriminate against homosexuality. The core teachings of original Buddhism clearly show that it is not whether one is heterosexual, homosexual or celibate that is good or bad, but it is how a person uses their sexual orientation that makes for good or bad karma.

 

For example, a gay man in a committed, loving and joyful relationship with a male partner is definitely morally superior to a straight married guy who is unfaithful to his wife. The Daila Lama's error is to look for his guidance in dodgy scriptures composed many centuries after the time of the Buddha.

 

http://www.bswa.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=181

[MesaGman]

If you guys like Buddhism that's ok with me. Why are you so adamant in trying to convince me that it's good. Can't I have a different view? I merely just mentioned why I think Buddhism, or I interpret it to be a faith based myth. Let's just leave it at that. But it's good that you believe, if you're happy with it. but I think I am justified in posting in the poll why I think it's a dogmatic religion.

[Grandpa Harley]

I think the attitude didn't help... but coming from me that's the pot calling the kettle black...

 

You held to the view well, Padwan... that was impressive...

[MesaGman]

speaking of Jedism, that gets on my nerves too, because of the Dogma.... as revealed by playing Knights of the old Republic.. Jedis have a code, yet Obiwan accused Anikin of "only the Sith deals with absolute", but Jedis have codes.

 

But a character in Knights 2, Kreia wanted no alignment just the force. Like my issue is why do people need labels, why can't they be people. I guess I have this Anarchist mentality, of Lazier faire.... Libertarianism. yea that's it, that seeps in there.

 

but with any isms, there's always the dogma of my way or the high way, by the way is codified. I'm not sure if I'm making any sense. anyways, but it was an excellent debate. hell learned alot about different sects of Buddhism. That really blew my mind.

 

But as for me.... I'm just going to stick to modern hedonism. (note in this context hedonism, is doing things for the sake of enjoying). I think that living in a very complex city, such as Calgary, (since the GWOT started refugees just poured into the city, bringing their professional talent. as well migrants from all over the country). Calgary has exploded in population these past 10 years, and I was blessed to be able to experience alot of different views. And comming out of a dogmatic single minded sect of a dogmatic single minded religion.... and thought, why not become one giant modern human race...... and take over other races in the universe, just like Coruisaunt did lol! jk

[Kuroikaze]

If you guys like Buddhism that's ok with me. Why are you so adamant in trying to convince me that it's good. Can't I have a different view? I merely just mentioned why I think Buddhism, or I interpret it to be a faith based myth. Let's just leave it at that. But it's good that you believe, if you're happy with it. but I think I am justified in posting in the poll why I think it's a dogmatic religion.

 

I don't think anyone was trying to convince you of anything necessarily. It seems like you feel we were being down on you for saying you didn't like Buddhism, but I don't really think that it was it at all.

 

To me it was kinda like you were saying I don't like "X" because it teaches "Y" and "Z." Our issue was that "X" doesn't really teach "Y" and "Z." Its fine if you don't like Buddhism (I certainly don't like all aspects of it), but you should dislike it for real reasons, not fake ones.

 

The fact that it was Buddhism had little to do with it, if you had said something inaccurate about Catholicism or Mormonism I would have probably corrected you as well, and I can't stand either of those belief systems, and in these cases, at least, there are plenty of real reasons to not believe, so there is hardly any need to come up with fake ones.

 

At least for me, it was more to do with my tendency to be a history/philosophy geek, I generally like learning that stuff even if it seems useless. Also, atheists tend to be judged rather harshly by theists, and though I don't know you that well, I'd hate to see anyone end up in a discussion with one and end up looking foolish because of a gap in their knowledge.

[Neon Genesis]

speaking of Jedism, that gets on my nerves too, because of the Dogma.... as revealed by playing Knights of the old Republic.. Jedis have a code, yet Obiwan accused Anikin of "only the Sith deals with absolute", but Jedis have codes.

 

But a character in Knights 2, Kreia wanted no alignment just the force. Like my issue is why do people need labels, why can't they be people. I guess I have this Anarchist mentality, of Lazier faire.... Libertarianism. yea that's it, that seeps in there.

That was one thing I didn't understand about Star Wars, either. Like Obi Wan said that only the Sith deals with absolute, yet Obi Wan himself is a moral absolutist and in fact the majority of the Star Wars characters are moral absolutists. When you think about it, the only Star Wars character who is in fact not absolutist is Darth Vader, who ironically is a Sith. >>

[Grandpa Harley]

The Sith were the only ones who weren't fast and loose with the truth...

[Rev R]

ok, yeah "Jediism" and "Jedi Realism" bug me almost as much as "Matrixism".

 

Nice enough people, interesting community...until you get to the "I can teach you telepathy over the internet" stuff.

[MesaGman]

Actually I found alot of Buddhist symbolism with Morpheus's speech to Neo... To break free from the Matrix or box, and it's illusions, to want to see Nirvana or nothingness or reality. Of course Cypher didn't want to keep freeing his mind, so like ex Christians who slip back, they slip back into the realm of illusions. Plus Neo kept on reincarnating that's what the Archetect said, and the cycle started all over again.

[Kuroikaze]

Actually I found alot of Buddhist symbolism with Morpheus's speech to Neo... To break free from the Matrix or box, and it's illusions, to want to see Nirvana or nothingness or reality. Of course Cypher didn't want to keep freeing his mind, so like ex Christians who slip back, they slip back into the realm of illusions. Plus Neo kept on reincarnating that's what the Archetect said, and the cycle started all over again.

 

I was a fundy when that movie came out, and all of my christian friends saw escaping from the matrix as a allusion to christian salvation.