Why Do You Remain A Christian?

[Deva]

That leaves us in an awkward position. If Christ did in fact rise, His claims are true. So you must make that decision. What do I do with this man who lived in Israel over 2000 years ago? If He is risen, Christianity is right, all other religions are wrong. You must then decide for yourself how you will deal with this. Will you accept Him for who He is? Or will you reject Christ and bear the burden of the negative repercussions that are to follow?

 

OK, in a civil way, I will ask what exactly you mean by this paragraph?

[NotBlinded]

Hey shy let me also say that I appreciate your willingness to discuss and just throw out trash like Deva

 

Hey tag-team-troll, I wasn't talking to you but if the shoe fits...

Ohhhhh....I wanna play!

[NotBlinded]

That leaves us in an awkward position. If Christ did in fact rise, His claims are true. So you must make that decision. What do I do with this man who lived in Israel over 2000 years ago? If He is risen, Christianity is right, all other religions are wrong. You must then decide for yourself how you will deal with this. Will you accept Him for who He is? Or will you reject Christ and bear the burden of the negative repercussions that are to follow?

 

OK, in a civil way, I will ask what exactly you mean by this paragraph?

I kid you not, that paragraph sent a burn through my heart and it wasn't sadness, it was anger.

 

Caleb, how do you know that you are accepting him for who he was when you have no idea other than what other people said he was. How do you know that they even knew what the hell he was saying? Are you sure you don't just believe what the people that put it together wanted you to believe? What are his claims vs, oh I don't know, Paul's?

 

This really burns me up. Like that other thread...The Stupidity! It burns! That's the truth, it does burn.

 

So Caleb, tell us who Christ is without using hearsay. As I stated somewhere else, he doesn't have to rise from the dead in order to be A son of God. You believe because you fear the "negative repercussions" that was added to it to keep you in line. I believe in something because there is nothing to fear...go figure. How can you believe that being subservient to a being will instill love in people? Christianity has a lot in common with Buddhism. They both make you persist in your folly. Christianity doesn't want you to wake up from your folly though. At least in Buddhism, they will slap the crap out of you in order to do it.

 

Subservience...the folly of fools.

[agnosticator]

Observation: Jesus is missing.

 

Another observation Han. Joseph Smith's golden plates were missing. They are still missing, but the Mormons base their whole religion upon them anyway. Because Smith said so, it must be true! And so the New Testament authors say their stories are true. So they must be.

[Ouroboros]

Another observation Han. Joseph Smith's golden plates were missing. They are still missing, but the Mormons base their whole religion upon them anyway. Because Smith said so, it must be true! And so the New Testament authors say their stories are true. So they must be.

Exactly.

 

And I keep on losing socks in the washing machine, which means the sock gnomes exist for real.

[CalebMcCreary]

That leaves us in an awkward position. If Christ did in fact rise, His claims are true. So you must make that decision. What do I do with this man who lived in Israel over 2000 years ago? If He is risen, Christianity is right, all other religions are wrong. You must then decide for yourself how you will deal with this. Will you accept Him for who He is? Or will you reject Christ and bear the burden of the negative repercussions that are to follow?

 

OK, in a civil way, I will ask what exactly you mean by this paragraph?

 

 

What do I mean by this paragraph? Exactly what it says. If Jesus really rose from the dead, you have to take His claims to deity seriously. If He really is the way, the truth and the life and the only way to the Father, His resurrection would verify those claims. And we must stare face-to-face with the objective fact that this man claimed to be God and rose from the dead to prove it. We are left with no other choice. If Christianity's claim to the resurrection is right, EVERY OTHER RELIGION IN THE WORLD IS WRONG. There can be no talk of "everybody just says the same things differently" in regards to religion. To the Muslim, God is only one and to equate Christ with Allah is shirk. To the Jew, Jesus is not the Messiah. To some Buddhists and Hindus, there isn't even such thing as a personal creator God.

 

So the point remains this: if Christ has risen, YOU are faced with a choice. Accept Him for who He is or reject Him. It is black and white. The results one way or the other are spelled out clearly in Scripture.

[Midnight-mindwanderings]

Is this some kind of pascal's wager with a twist?

 

Sayeth Caleb:

If Christianity's claim to the resurrection is right, EVERY OTHER RELIGION IN THE WORLD IS WRONG

 

if Christ has risen, YOU are faced with a choice. Accept Him for who He is or reject Him. It is black and white. The results one way or the other are spelled out clearly in Scripture.

 

I spose I wouldn't argue this point, but that very BIG "if" you have there is the very thing in debate. Why on earth would be believe he has risen anymore than any of us believe in the golden plates of Joseph Smith, Thetans, or that Mohammad went to heaven on a horse? If Christ has not risen then you are also faced with a choice: continue living in delusion or open your mind to the bigger truth out there.

 

I left Christianity before having intellectual reasons. I made an ethical choice. I saw this same line in the sand and I chose to side with the heathens and sinners. Even if I could be convinced the bible was true (one way would be if the rapture and following events happened), I would honestly side with Satan. Because of the 2 I honestly find him to be of higher moral fiber.

 

My 2 cents. Carry on.

[Shyone]

Wilyfem and Shyone,

 

You're absolutely right. My question is, why do Christians hold the impossible event of some fantasy true over all other possible explanations?

Good question, but I think the explanation is complicated. It probably deserves its own thread.

 

Have you noticed that it is quite rare for a Christian to be critical of anything related to the Bible, their denomination, or specific beliefs held by their religion? I mean, no matter how illogical, impossible, obviously contradictory, laughable, silly or insane, they will defend it with a straight face.

 

The whole thing seems to be a package that will completely unravel if any section crumbles. Is God a vengeful jealous god or is god love? Is the resurrection story coherent, or are parts fabricated by someone who meant well? Is the genocide ordered by God in the OT immoral, or is God a fatherly figure with the best interests of all of his "children" at heart?

 

How many times did the Christian write, "If the resurrection didn't happen, then our faith is in vain"? Actually, he was paraphrasing a passage in the NT, but the point is that he could not accept that anything related to the resurrection accounts could have been wrong.

 

It's all or none. Or so they seem to act. They must find that Jesus was resurrected as the most likely, most logical, and most reasonable explanation, because if it isn't, and it didn't happen, then the whole ball of wax melts away.

[bdp]

What other alternative do we have?

 

...that it's just a story in a book..?

[Deva]

That leaves us in an awkward position. If Christ did in fact rise, His claims are true. So you must make that decision. What do I do with this man who lived in Israel over 2000 years ago? If He is risen, Christianity is right, all other religions are wrong. You must then decide for yourself how you will deal with this. Will you accept Him for who He is? Or will you reject Christ and bear the burden of the negative repercussions that are to follow?

 

OK, in a civil way, I will ask what exactly you mean by this paragraph?

 

 

What do I mean by this paragraph? Exactly what it says. If Jesus really rose from the dead, you have to take His claims to deity seriously. If He really is the way, the truth and the life and the only way to the Father, His resurrection would verify those claims. And we must stare face-to-face with the objective fact that this man claimed to be God and rose from the dead to prove it. We are left with no other choice. If Christianity's claim to the resurrection is right, EVERY OTHER RELIGION IN THE WORLD IS WRONG. There can be no talk of "everybody just says the same things differently" in regards to religion. To the Muslim, God is only one and to equate Christ with Allah is shirk. To the Jew, Jesus is not the Messiah. To some Buddhists and Hindus, there isn't even such thing as a personal creator God. So the point remains this: if Christ has risen, YOU are faced with achoice. Accept Him for who He is or reject Him. It is black and white.The results one way or the other are spelled out clearly in Scripture.

 

 

And this is why I still say you are full of it. It is one thing to spout nonsense about how the gospels are historical fact, and quite another to say that we MUST do anything at all with this information. You are setting up a false dichotomy and expect us to buy it? PLEEZE

 

Personally I never thought the notion in religion that "everybody just says the same things differently" was legitimate either. Where do you get the idea that any of us believe that? You are right that Buddhists do not believe in a personal creator God. We don't believe in God, that Christ was god, that he resurrected either. EVEN IF HE DID RISE FROM THE DEAD, we do not need to do ANYTHING with this information. It has no impact whatsoever on our lives. You can repeat it until you are blue in the face and it makes no difference WHATSOEVER to us. Do you get this?

 

Don't come on here telling any of us what we HAVE TO DO. The fact is we don't care and there is no reason for us to, having freed ourselves from the brainwashing of Christianity.

[agnosticator]

If Christianity's claim to the resurrection is right, EVERY OTHER RELIGION IN THE WORLD IS WRONG. There can be no talk of "everybody just says the same things differently" in regards to religion. To the Muslim, God is only one and to equate Christ with Allah is shirk. To the Jew, Jesus is not the Messiah. To some Buddhists and Hindus, there isn't even such thing as a personal creator God.

 

So the point remains this: if Christ has risen, YOU are faced with a choice. Accept Him for who He is or reject Him. It is black and white. The results one way or the other are spelled out clearly in Scripture.

 

If God is so petty, vindictive, and divisive (as described in the Bible), God is a monster, and we are all doomed. Even believers are doomed to eternal enslavement just as Orwell's Big Brother's true believers were. Love cannot be given freely when we are blamed for being born, then threatened if we don't feel guilt for, and confess to, our humanity.

[Karhoof]

And this is why I still say you are full of it. It is one thing to spout nonsense about how the gospels are historical fact, and quite another to say that we MUST do anything at all with this information.

Right there with ya Deva.

 

 

I wasn't even gonna bother getting into it with this guy, but...

 

 

Caleb, please tell me what the difference between The Lord of the Rings, the bible or Pinnochio is. Other than the fact that the hero of the story gets what he wanted all along.

Lord of the Rings - The Ring is destroyed

bible - Jesus gets his wings

Pinnochio - He becomes a real boy

[agnosticator]

Caleb, please tell me what the difference between The Lord of the Rings, the bible or Pinnochio is.

 

Jesus' nose didn't grow when he lied.

[Shyone]

Caleb, please tell me what the difference between The Lord of the Rings, the bible or Pinnochio is.

 

Jesus' nose didn't grow when he lied.

Then how did he open the tomb?

[agnosticator]

Caleb, please tell me what the difference between The Lord of the Rings, the bible or Pinnochio is.

 

Jesus' nose didn't grow when he lied.

Then how did he open the tomb?

 

He paid off the Roman soldiers (to open the tomb)with the money Judas gave him. Judas felt guilty and turned the money over to Jesus.

 

Then Jesus wrote a novel about his exploits, and we got the New Testament. That's my story, and I'm sticking with it!

[NotBlinded]

What do I mean by this paragraph? Exactly what it says. If Jesus really rose from the dead, you have to take His claims to deity seriously. If He really is the way, the truth and the life and the only way to the Father, His resurrection would verify those claims. And we must stare face-to-face with the objective fact that this man claimed to be God and rose from the dead to prove it. We are left with no other choice. If Christianity's claim to the resurrection is right, EVERY OTHER RELIGION IN THE WORLD IS WRONG. There can be no talk of "everybody just says the same things differently" in regards to religion. To the Muslim, God is only one and to equate Christ with Allah is shirk. To the Jew, Jesus is not the Messiah. To some Buddhists and Hindus, there isn't even such thing as a personal creator God.

 

So the point remains this: if Christ has risen, YOU are faced with a choice. Accept Him for who He is or reject Him. It is black and white. The results one way or the other are spelled out clearly in Scripture.

Bull! It is not black and white. Are you saying that God, you know...that being that can do anything, is limited in how It makes Itself known? Jesus rising from the dead could be one way (which is crap), but there could be many other ways also. Damn...you really have taken God and stuffed it inside a box.

[Karhoof]

So, where did our new friend lionkiller ( sorry, that name gets me every time) and our old chum(p) Caleb get to?

[CalebMcCreary]

That leaves us in an awkward position. If Christ did in fact rise, His claims are true. So you must make that decision. What do I do with this man who lived in Israel over 2000 years ago? If He is risen, Christianity is right, all other religions are wrong. You must then decide for yourself how you will deal with this. Will you accept Him for who He is? Or will you reject Christ and bear the burden of the negative repercussions that are to follow?

 

OK, in a civil way, I will ask what exactly you mean by this paragraph?

 

 

What do I mean by this paragraph? Exactly what it says. If Jesus really rose from the dead, you have to take His claims to deity seriously. If He really is the way, the truth and the life and the only way to the Father, His resurrection would verify those claims. And we must stare face-to-face with the objective fact that this man claimed to be God and rose from the dead to prove it. We are left with no other choice. If Christianity's claim to the resurrection is right, EVERY OTHER RELIGION IN THE WORLD IS WRONG. There can be no talk of "everybody just says the same things differently" in regards to religion. To the Muslim, God is only one and to equate Christ with Allah is shirk. To the Jew, Jesus is not the Messiah. To some Buddhists and Hindus, there isn't even such thing as a personal creator God. So the point remains this: if Christ has risen, YOU are faced with achoice. Accept Him for who He is or reject Him. It is black and white.The results one way or the other are spelled out clearly in Scripture.

 

 

And this is why I still say you are full of it. It is one thing to spout nonsense about how the gospels are historical fact, and quite another to say that we MUST do anything at all with this information. You are setting up a false dichotomy and expect us to buy it? PLEEZE

 

Personally I never thought the notion in religion that "everybody just says the same things differently" was legitimate either. Where do you get the idea that any of us believe that? You are right that Buddhists do not believe in a personal creator God. We don't believe in God, that Christ was god, that he resurrected either. EVEN IF HE DID RISE FROM THE DEAD, we do not need to do ANYTHING with this information. It has no impact whatsoever on our lives. You can repeat it until you are blue in the face and it makes no difference WHATSOEVER to us. Do you get this?

 

Don't come on here telling any of us what we HAVE TO DO. The fact is we don't care and there is no reason for us to, having freed ourselves from the brainwashing of Christianity.

 

 

So Deva, you would be so bold as to say that if Christ rose from the dead, it means nothing? You woud look at this amazing event and say "Oh well...not that big of a deal."? The ramifications of this are HUGE. If He rose, His claims to being God are true! Everything else He claims and says then fall into place, including the all important command to repent and believe the Gospel!

 

I'm not telling you what you HAVE to do. The choice is yours. You can reject Him...God does not coerce love. He wants you to love Him freely, but He never forces anyone to choose Him. However, the consequences of choosing not to accept the paid penalty for your sin on the cross means that you bear the responsibility for your sin. Scripture makes that clear and it also delineates that you have the choice. Reject Him at your own peril.

 

Deva, I make no presumptions on here to judge you or to lord anything over you or anyone else on this site. I am simply here to warn you of the results of sin and where it leads. What you do with that knowledge is completely out of my hands. I would hope that every person would turn from their sin and accept the free gift of salvation through Christ, but I cannot change your heart or anyone else's. Only you can choose to respond to God's call on your heart to repent and believe the Gospel.

 

- Caleb

[bdp]

*yawn*

[Karhoof]

you would be so bold as to say that if Christ rose from the dead, it means nothing? You woud look at this amazing event and say "Oh well...not that big of a deal."? The ramifications of this are HUGE. If He rose, His claims to being God are true! Everything else He claims and says then fall into place, including the all important command to repent and believe the Gospel!

You (correctly) keep saying IF. Please show me that any of this is true.

 

 

 

You can reject Him...God does not coerce love.

Already have and you are a liar.

The bible can be reduced to one simple statement. "Worship me... or suffer forever!"

If I hold a gun to your forehead and say, "Tell me what a swell guy I am or I'll pull the trigger." How is that not coersion?

 

 

He wants you to love Him freely, but He never forces anyone to choose Him. However, the consequences of choosing not to accept the paid penalty for your sin on the cross means that you bear the responsibility for your sin. Scripture makes that clear and it also delineates that you have the choice.

Again, rejected for lack of evidence.

 

Reject Him at your own peril.

Are you threatening me?

 

 

 

I make no presumptions on here to judge you or to lord anything over you or anyone else on this site. I am simply here to warn you of the results of sin and where it leads. What you do with that knowledge is completely out of my hands. I would hope that every person would turn from their sin and accept the free gift of salvation through Christ, but I cannot change your heart or anyone else's. Only you can choose to respond to God's call on your heart to repent and believe the Gospel.

 

- Caleb

If you don't draw a circle on the floor with chalk, step into it and recite Poe's The Raven once a week for the rest of your life, your chutzpah will be in eternal peril.

What you choose to do with that information is entirely up to you.

[Shyone]

So Deva, you would be so bold as to say that if Christ rose from the dead, it means nothing? You woud look at this amazing event and say "Oh well...not that big of a deal."? The ramifications of this are HUGE. If He rose, His claims to being God are true! Everything else He claims and says then fall into place, including the all important command to repent and believe the Gospel!

 

If Jesus rose from the dead there is something amazing going on there, I'll give you that. And amazing does not automatically equal good, trustworthy, and something to get on board with. A nuclear bomb explosion is amazing. It isn't good. It isn't trustworthy on a personal level.

 

Things do not just fall into place for me because someone or something is powerful. Are you easily impressed by status? By a uniform?

 

Phanta

As an interesting corollary, unusual events are catalysts for investigation, not faith.

 

If I knew that someone had been clinically dead (by modern criteria, not those of ancient superstitious people) for three days, then rose from the dead, I would be doing examinations to see how much decompositon there was, fundoscopic examinations, ekgs, stress tests, blood tests for liver function, kidney function, etc. A thorough history and physical examination, screens for drugs and toxins and a variety of X-Ray examinations would be on the list.

 

If these tests were normal, I would be looking for malfunctioning equipment, negligence or fraud.

 

If this person said he was the son of god, I would ask for neurology and psychiatry consultations.

 

If he said he was god, I would probably also request that he be committed for at least 72 hour psychiatric observation.

[Deva]

So Deva, you would be so bold as to say that if Christ rose from the dead, it means nothing? You woud look at this amazing event and say "Oh well...not that big of a deal."? The ramifications of this are HUGE. If He rose, His claims to being God are true! Everything else He claims and says then fall into place, including the all important command to repent and believe the Gospel!

 

YES, I would be so bold. EVEN IF TRUE, it means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. As does the rest of this quote.

 

Deva, I make no presumptions on here to judge you or to lord anything over you or anyone else on this site. I am simply here to warn you of the results of sin and where it leads. What you do with that knowledge is completely out of my hands. I would hope that every person would turn from their sin and accept the free gift of salvation through Christ, but I cannot change your heart or anyone else's. Only you can choose to respond to God's call on your heart to repent and believe the Gospel.

 

I have limited time, but I still say you are full of it and by this statement you are piling it on higher. That's all.

 

I am not interested in any of it. To me, the core so-called spiritual question is this - "Who am I"? Everything else is irrelevant.

[NotBlinded]

>snip<

 

You can reject Him...God does not coerce love. He wants you to love Him freely, but He never forces anyone to choose Him.

 

>snip<

 

Reject Him at your own peril.

You really are suffering from a mental illness Caleb if you can make those two thoughts above go together. What is the matter with that scenario above?

 

As I said earlier...submission, the folly of fools. Go ahead and force yourself to love under threat. I heard it sometimes works in hostage situations.

[NotBlinded]

If you don't draw a circle on the floor with chalk, step into it and recite Poe's The Raven once a week for the rest of your life, your chutzpah will be in eternal peril.

What you choose to do with that information is entirely up to you.

I love Poe because he protects my chutzpah. Not once did he ever say that he would roast my chutzpah for all eternity.

[NotBlinded]

You can reject Him...God does not coerce love.

Already have and you are a liar.

The bible can be reduced to one simple statement. "Worship me... or suffer forever!"

If I hold a gun to your forehead and say, "Tell me what a swell guy I am or I'll pull the trigger." How is that not coersion?

 

Only if you anthropomorphize God, and then make "Him" loving and personally interested in each individual human.

 

Phanta

Well, like........duh!

 

 

 

 

Just teasing Phanta