God/Jesus being a Genuine Man

[Saviourmachine]

Is there something we learn in enduring trials and tribulations?

 

Does it make us stronger or weaker?

 

Is there something to be said for overcoming, or do you think that it would be much better to only live in a place as a fairytale, with never being exposed to difficult elements?

An earthly father protects his childs against things that are too hurtful. He let them make mistakes, touch the oven, but he wouldn't let his kid run over the street. I'm not sure what kind of 'stronger' or 'weaker' you are talking about, but I suppose that you can learn from little mistakes too. If a mistake is so grave that it does cost your life, you'll not learn a thing from it.

Your faults shouldn't have consequences for others. Do I have to learn from your mistakes? The biggest injustice on earth is that a crime can not be undone. There is no way to resurrect the victim of a murder. Life is unfair(ytale).

[Amanda]

Your faults shouldn't have consequences for others. Do I have to learn from your mistakes? The biggest injustice on earth is that a crime can not be undone. There is no way to resurrect the victim of a murder. Life is unfair(ytale).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Faults shouldn't have consequences for others... I agree. Yet, what does that say if a victimization does happen? What statement does that make? Does it incite people into action? Does it bring out feelings of compassion? Perhaps of justice, vendication, or movements toward prevention and rehabilitation to overcoming their circumstances? Yet, EVERYONE needs to be accountable and responsible for the decisions they make.

 

There is no way to resurrect a victim, that's true. But, we don't know what happens to one when they pass on from here. Nor do we know the depths of influence of anyones presence here, even for a short time. You may think that when the body goes, that's the end. Do you KNOW? IF one's spirit is energy... then it can not be destroyed... and we do not know what 'consciousness' is. Some believe in paralell dimensions, some in reincarnation, and who knows how many other possibilities there are? Our perspective is not seen through lenses made of infinite knowledge, we can only assume.

[Saviourmachine]

There is no way to resurrect a victim, that's true. But, we don't know what happens to one when they pass on from here. Nor do we know the depths of influence of anyones presence here, even for a short time. You may think that when the body goes, that's the end. Do you KNOW? IF one's spirit is energy... then it can not be destroyed... and we do not know what 'consciousness' is. Some believe in paralell dimensions, some in reincarnation, and who knows how many other possibilities there are? Our perspective is not seen through lenses made of infinite knowledge, we can only assume.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If it's about imagination, you can even add a facet of choice: the death can return, but they don't want to return, it's their own choice. Just like Lewis said that who will end in the hell will choose to stay their, because of their own stubborness. The kingdom of the death is locked from the inside out. However, if someone wounds you, justice would be that this would be undone. In the best case... your body cures. And the culprit will be done some 'righteous' things.

 

I don't know, maybe there is an afterlife. Or you start to live in multiple dimensions, one heavenly and one hellish. "If one's spirit is energy". What's energy? And why can it not be destroyed? Why wouldn't I base my beliefs on what is known, in stead of what is unknown? Or do you have esoteric knowledge, gnosis?

[Amanda]

What's energy? And why can it not be destroyed? Why wouldn't I base my beliefs on what is known, in stead of what is unknown? Or do you have esoteric knowledge, gnosis?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Saviourmachine, it is SCIENCE that says that energy can neither be created, nor distroyed... but transformed from one form to another! Additionally, science says that most of EVERYTHING is energy, light, and electromagnetic charge. THAT is the popular scientific theory for now!

 

Base your belief on what is KNOWN? What is known? Most of science is even theory. That is why it is refining itself all the time! I think our understanding of the masterpiece of the original text of the Bible is refining all the time also.

 

My suggestion in support of the teachings of Christ is to take his principles, apply them to one's life, and if it has a positive affect to help one manuever through the world more effectively... then let that stand on its own... here and now. Why would anyone attribute these collections of powerful presentations to help mankind, to someone else... especially a fictitious person!? That would be like Einstien attributing the theory of relativity to Santa Claus!

 

Having said that, I do NOT believe that the Bible and its teachings are the ONLY way to attain principles to receive great benefits. There are many paths, and one for each person, IMO.

[Cerise]

What makes you so certain that the "powerful presentations" of the bible are at all helpful to mankind?

 

What happens when they are detrimental? What shall you do then (besides cherry-pick and make up any interpretation you wish to explain away the difficulty, that is).

 

The Care Bears movie has a helpful overall message for mankind, i.e. try to be friends with people. But I don't see many people worshipping care bears.

[duderonomy]

Amanda...

 

Kissing the ass of your imaginary friend 'Jesus', or kissing the asses of your opponents will yeild the same results.

 

You are so involved with your own interpretation of your faith, that you have lost sight of the facts.

 

Amanda... if you should ever fall into 'Quicksand', I'd like you to know that that doesn't mean that you will drown. You can swim out of it... it just takes a little patience. Don't panic. Swim like you would otherwise (in a pool) and you will escape.

 

And you'll feel so alive when you reach the shore. You'll think about what could have happened to you had you given up! But 'given up' on what? Survival? Life itself? Why are you here swimming in this pool of sharks in the first place?

 

Are you defending your faith? Do you have questions?

 

You may have already said these things...I'm pretty new here, so I don't know why you are here struggling against the odds.

 

I do like to read your posts, but you should remember that most of us have heard this stuff before. In fact, many of us grew up on it.

[dogmatically_challenged]

Amanda...

 

Kissing the ass of your imaginary friend 'Jesus', or kissing the asses of your opponents will yeild the same results.

 

You are so involved with your own interpretation of your faith, that you have lost sight of the facts.

 

Amanda... if you should ever fall into 'Quicksand', I'd like you to know that that doesn't mean that you will drown. You can swim out of it... it just takes a little patience. Don't panic. Swim like you would otherwise (in a pool) and you will escape.

 

And you'll feel so alive when you reach the shore. You'll think about what could have happened to you had you given up! But 'given up' on what? Survival? Life itself? Why are you here swimming in this pool of sharks in the first place?

 

Are you defending your faith? Do you have questions?

 

You may have already said these things...I'm pretty new here, so I don't know why you are here struggling against the odds.

 

I do like to read your posts, but you should remember that most of us have heard this stuff before. In fact, many of us grew up on it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

She really tells it like it aint as far as the bible goes. I think its funny as hell. Mysticism is silly and absurd and is totaly lacking in consitency/coherency and logical methodology. She puts spin on a yarn that put its own spin on an older yarn. She is so silly. hehe.

 

I think our understanding of the masterpiece of the original text of the Bible is refining all the time also.

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!.............HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

[duderonomy]

Oh yeah...

Should I be wrong, and my fallen Spirit should be found wounded and laying in the street, I wouldn't have any one but you standing over me with The Flaming Sword of God, defending me!

 

You have the courage of your convictions girl, and I have to admire that!

 

Honest!

Even if I might take a glance up your skirt as you fought for me!

 

Stupid, sinful me. You do put up with a lot here Amanda.

[dogmatically_challenged]

You do put up with a lot here Amanda.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Heathen please. She tries to sell EXCHRISTIANS on the idea that the bible is all that and a bag of chips. The flustrating part is that she is a heathen. A heretic. She is one of us and yet she isn't.

[duderonomy]

DC...

What you are saying is that Amanda isn't a Fundie?

I know that. But I still stand by my last post.

 

She's unafraid to defend what she believes.

 

Just think how she'll be if/when she does become one of us!

 

And I stand by my glance remark

 

Amanda.. sorry to talk about you like you aren't here...but you're not.

[dogmatically_challenged]

DC...

What you are saying is that Amanda isn't a Fundie?

I know that. But I still stand by my last post.

 

She's unafraid to defend what she believes.

 

Just think how she'll be if/when she does become one of us!

 

And I stand by my glance remark  

 

Amanda.. sorry to talk about you like you aren't here...but you're not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sinner. hehe!

[duderonomy]

DC...

Sinner? ME??

 

 

Amanda,

I certainly don't mean to offend you with my crass remarks. I really wouldn't glance (yes I would) no I wouldn't (yes I would) no I wouldn't...

Romans chapter 7. ;-)

 

I think the rub here is that you CAN'T believe the Bible, AND still think there are 'other paths'... the Bible doesn't leave you that option.

 

If Jesus and God are one, and the only way to the Father is through Jesus, and if God doesn't want anyone to perish, and if I perish, then God can't possibly be all powerful, and if He's not all powerful, then He's not God, and if He's not God, then Jesus isn't God either, which if I remember, was kind of the original topic of this thread.

 

I was sorry to read about your childhood. Believe me, I know about... things like that from my own. If people here seem mean (who am I to try to talk for the others, I'm a newbie here), you need to realize that:

 

1) Many of us have been through the same, and either prayed for relief that didn't come, or later became Christians in order to find a true and caring Father that wouldn't hurt us, and that didn't happen either like promised; and/or

 

2) Many of us here have had the same faith, convictions, guilt, knee time, carpet time, and found it to be a sham, and are now either angry or bitter or at least not at all patient with the same old arguements that we, too, have used in the past to 'save' others or keep ourselves from Hell.

 

You don't seem to believe the Bible cover to cover. That's fine, but I must point out that if you don't believe all of it, then according to the Bible itself, you don't really believe any of it.

 

Verses available on request for all of the above.

 

Duder

[dogmatically_challenged]

I certainly don't mean to offend you with my crass remarks. I really wouldn't glance (yes I would) no I wouldn't (yes I would) no I wouldn't...

Romans chapter 7. ;-)

HAHAHA!!

 

You don't seem to believe the Bible cover to cover. That's fine, but I must point out that if you don't believe all of it, then according to the Bible itself, you don't really believe any of it.

Her cherry picking in no way can be compared to my cherrypicking all holybooks for inspiration/stimulation. I call a spade a spade when I read garbage in any holybook and I don't twist the passage just to explain it away or make it say what it doesn't say.

 

She has no methods in her belief system other than cherry picking the bible, twisting scripture while gobling up xer propaganda on jesus. And then she sandbags in her mind against bigoted scripture. It doesn't exist even when it is shown to her. She is totaly dillusional if she thinks the bible supports the notion that all peoples are parts of god. According to the bible all other religions are wrong and evil. Idolatry.

 

I tried to tell her that the bible is bigoted against all other religions. That Christianity is nothing other than thugish in its hijacking the god of abraham from the jews, while telling the jews that they betrayed thier own god. The tactics of sick and thugish assholes. If she can't see that then she is totaly wacked out.

[duderonomy]

DC...

I respectfully disagree with you on some of your last post.

I want to hear from Amanda, and see what she thinks about what I said.

 

Myself, I don't see why everyone (including me, now that I think of it), thinks that her views are 'wrong'. At best, Amanda and I would disagree when it comes to the Bible, which is why I hang out here on 'Debating with Christians'. At worst, she's 'mental' and so am I. Who's to say?

 

Either I'm right, and the Bible is bullsh*t, or maybe it's true, and God has 'given us over' to 'believe a lie'.

 

I'll wait and hope that Amanda responds to my post. In the meantime, here's some food for thought for all of us... if a person is 'mental' because they defend what they believe about the Bible, then all of us Ex-tians were mental at one time.

 

[dogmatically_challenged]

I tried to tell her that the bible is bigoted against all other religions. That Christianity is nothing other than thugish in its hijacking the god of abraham from the jews, while telling the jews that they betrayed thier own god. The tactics of sick and thugish assholes. If she can't see that then she is totaly wacked out.

 

She is totaly dillusional if she thinks the bible supports the notion that all peoples are parts of god. According to the bible all other religions are wrong and evil. Idolatry.

 

The bible is bigotry.

 

 

I edited that last part you speak of.

 

Duder

I'll wait and hope that Amanda responds to my post. In the meantime, here's some food for thought for all of us... if a person is 'mental' because they defend what they believe about the Bible, then all of us Ex-tians were mental at one time.

Yes. I agree here totaly. Unfortunately she is a slippery fish.

 

Amanda

I think our understanding of the masterpiece of the original text of the Bible is refining all the time also.

Maybe our dillusional friend will tell us were we can eyeball the original text of the Bible for ourselves? She can't. Theologians twisting scripture in order for the religion to not be so disagreable to modern society is dishonest. She is dillusional if she wants to compare that with the scientific method.

[duderonomy]

DC,

I didn't mention that there are also a lot of points that you raise in your post that I DO agree with!

 

You are right that the Bible is bigoted against all other religions. Against anything but Jews in the OT, and against anything but Christians in the NT.

Let the fundies reconcile that!!

 

Oy Vey (as it were). We raise these issues time and time again, but never get straight answers from the True Believers, do we?

 

But I still hope to hear from Amanda on my previous post. Unless I'm wrong about this, she seems to be floating around between 'Us' and 'Them'.

Or maybe it isn't so 'black and white'?

 

We'll see...

[dogmatically_challenged]

DC,

I didn't mention that there are also a lot of points that you raise in your post that I DO agree with!

 

You are right that the Bible is bigoted against all other religions. Against anything but Jews in the OT, and against anything but Christians in the NT.

Let the fundies reconcile that!!

 

Oy Vey (as it were). We raise these issues time and time again, but never get straight answers from the True Believers, do we?

 

But I still hope to hear from Amanda on my previous post. Unless I'm wrong about this, she seems to be floating around between 'Us' and 'Them'.

Or maybe it isn't so 'black and white'?

 

We'll see...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yea. I think we can cherry pick all holy books for the gems while calling a spade a spade when it comes to parts of the books that are pure garbage.

[Sokudo Ningyou]

Faults shouldn't have consequences for others... I agree. Yet, what does that say if a victimization does happen? What statement does that make? Does it incite people into action? Does it bring out feelings of compassion? Perhaps of justice, vendication, or movements toward prevention and rehabilitation to overcoming their circumstances? Yet, EVERYONE needs to be accountable and responsible for the decisions they make.

 

There is no way to resurrect a victim, that's true. But, we don't know what happens to one when they pass on from here. Nor do we know the depths of influence of anyones presence here, even for a short time. You may think that when the body goes, that's the end. Do you KNOW? IF one's spirit is energy... then it can not be destroyed... and we do not know what 'consciousness' is. Some believe in paralell dimensions, some in reincarnation, and who knows how many other possibilities there are? Our perspective is not seen through lenses made of infinite knowledge, we can only assume.

 

 

Yet, what does it say if a victimization does happen because the person in question thought that the Bible taught them to victimize? What does it say if a black man is dragged down the street, tethered by a chain? What does it say if a gay boy is beaten and left for dead, tied to a fence? It incites people into action to continue the hatred from the pulpit just as it incites people to stop the violence.

 

But the question still remains: what was the trigger to begin with? A little black book of fables.

[duderonomy]

Sokudo,

 

Or maybe these people-for whatever reasons- already felt this hatred within themselves? Could we blame this on society? The Bible?

What to blame it on? Where does the root come from for these sorts of atrocities?

 

It seems to me that it could come from The Little Black Book, or that same book could be the justification for these kinds of of acts.

 

So are we to blame the Bible or not, really?

[duderonomy]

DC...

Are you being sarcastic, or do you think that all of the 'Holy Books' have within them a kernel of truth?

 

I mean, if there is a little truth in a 'Holy Book' but the rest is by and large Bullsh*t, then how can that book be Holy?

 

And who's to say which parts are true?

You? Me?

 

I know Amanda 'Cherry Picks'. So did we all, and maybe we as ex-Christians still do. So let her pick... I still wait to see what she has to say, should she decide to do so.

 

I use logical fallacies myself, yet should I condemn those who do the same?

 

Let those among you without a Logical Fallacy cast the first debate!

 

I still wait for Amanda.

 

 

 

:-)

[dogmatically_challenged]

DC...

Are you being sarcastic, or do you think that all of the 'Holy Books' have within them a kernel of truth?

 

I mean, if there is a little truth in a 'Holy Book' but the rest is by and large Bullsh*t, then how can that book be Holy?

 

And who's to say which parts are true?

You? Me?

 

I know Amanda 'Cherry Picks'. So did we all, and maybe we as ex-Christians still do. So let her pick... I still wait to see what she has to say, should she decide to do so.

 

I use logical fallacies myself, yet should I condemn those who do the same?

 

Let those among you without a Logical Fallacy cast the first debate!

 

I still wait for Amanda.

:-)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Naw. I aint being sarcastic. Just because the books might be called holy don't mean I believe the books are holy or god breathed. Nothing like that.

 

I cherry pick for things that are beautiful, loving, and make sense. I collect them. I reject and have scorn for what is hateful or just plain stupid. I don't have to treat the books as magical things given us by gods.

 

I give merit were its due regardless of the holy book it comes from. Since Amanda is a nutcase she can't do that. Only non-theists can. We don't have magical thinking to screw our minds into twisting scriptures. We read it and take it for what it really says as it is writen in context. No agenda. No a priori circular logic reasoning like the Religionists do. Religionists are all a bunch of froot loops.

 

I am a humanist and so I have some affection for our ancestors. Even though they weren't perfect. So I collect what I like from holybooks. Unlike Amanda I am consistent in valuing all our ancestors and what they have contributed. I don't play favorites unless thier is a RATIONAL reason to. My descrimination is fair were as hers is based soley on magical thinking and a mind virus that continualy mutates in between her ears.

[dogmatically_challenged]

Sokudo,

 

Or maybe these people-for whatever reasons- already felt this hatred within themselves? Could we blame this on society? The Bible?

What to blame it on? Where does the root come from for these sorts of atrocities?

 

It seems to me that it could come from The Little Black Book, or that same book could be the justification for these kinds of of acts.

 

So are we to blame the Bible or not, really?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The bible is a mixed bag and has something for almost all personality types.

 

We should blame ourselves for treating the bible as the word of a god. We should blame ourselves for making that contradictory and mostly immoral book a god. The paper god is incoherent and so we can wave it around and insite evil with it while having some scriptures to give us authority.

 

The bible is not any kind of method in teaching empathy or critical thinking and so imperfect humans worshiping an inperfect inconsistent book will lead to dangerous problems eventualy from time to time. History proves it.

 

The blame goes to the book AND to all the people who believe it is the wisdom of THE god. I think its dangerous enough to be bigoted in saying you have the real scoop on THE god and everyone who disagrees will be hated by THE god. Damn thats a dangerous mix right there let alone all the other garbage thats in that book.

[a midnight star]

This came from an old text book from college:

 

They know what consciousness is.

 

consciousness- Personal awareness of mental activities, internal sensations, and the external enviroment.

 

or did you mean unconsciousness?

 

unconscious - a term used to describe thoughts, feelings, wishes, and drives that are operating below the level of conscous awareness

 

one is the outside and the other is the inside.

 

He had what's called 'empathy'. He gave it without having to be asked.

hmm, the bible teaches that you MUST ask for forgiveness. It is not "just given". would you like the scripture directly out of your religious manuel?

 

He came to set an example

again not biblical. He had to be THE PERFECT SACRIFICE or your entire religion would not exist. he would have failed if he sinned.

 

 

Only an eye for an eye

while this is in the ot, jesus debunked it. he stated that you MUST forgive, regardless

 

His natural state is not self imposed. He was born as a man, with a purpose that none of us would of wanted to do.

wrong once again. he made the decision. none of us wanted to do? according to the bible, he was the only one who could.

 

Yep, that's why he stressed 'grace'. I think that he came and incorporated all the religions together, finding some of all of them benficial

You shall have no other gods both plural and proof that there are more than him. Incorperate? He demanded that the isrealites killed all people in some cities that worshipped other gods as well as destroy the images of their gods. How about what peter had to say about the worship of diana?

 

The suffering, emotional and physical, went on many, many hours before the crucifiction. Betrayal by your race, your friends, your supporters and the narcissistically inflicted physical pain for which they who administered it said they could see no wrong in him

hmm... you do know that it was a normal and humiliating experience at that time in roman history don't you? he was not the only one nailed to the cross.

 

everything he did could be learned by any man.

 

you do know that you are going from biblical theology to the definition of magic don't you? If not let me enlighten you. As a pagan I believe that there is "energy' all around us.

Magic is defined as = the science and art of causing change to occur in conformity with will. Crowley.

sure sounds like that is what you believe. SO jesus was nothing more than a witch who showed is art to others and we all can learn?

I sure thought that this is completely opposite of what the bible teaches.

 

As far as this particular reference you presented, it is interesting that Jesus was preparing to go to the crucifiction as the way to slay his enemy. It was to slay them in the spirit.

the only reference to being "slayed in the spirit" is to be baptised in he HS and "speak in tounges". It wasn't slayed anyways, itwas slain

 

As one reads science, one finds out that reality is changing all the time. One's perception is THEIR reality

reality does not change, our perception of reality as it concerns science changes. You have it backwards. The world didn't change from flat to round it stayed the same. Only our perception changed, not the reality.

 

If I thought the Bible said the same thing as most people on this site,

great :sarcasm: i guess I will have to put bible quotes to match my comments. ok will do.

 

Actually I think there are techniques that can be learned, and with time... more of these mysteries will unfold, revealing the methods of more of these miracles done by Jesus. He did say that we can do them too! They must be within our grasp.

are you a christian witch then?

 

Also, I think many illnesses exist because our personalities are fragmented, and that is why the Bible said something like, "you are made whole, you are healed." Sometimes I think people are ill to bring someone else up to their next spiritual level, in such stories as when Jesus told the centurion who came to have his servant healed, "by YOUR faith he is healed."

again not biblical.

 

Saviourmachine, do you want free will?

What the hell does free will have to do when you are abused as a child? The parents may have the free will, not the child being abused

 

[quote] Is there something we learn in enduring trials and tribulations?

. God is teaching us lessons when he allowed the abuse to occur? "hey son let me stick your hand in the fire to show you that it is hot" You have got to be kidding.

 

Does it make us stronger or weaker?

Depends on the person. Either way it is a lesson that served no purpose except hate for the god who allowed it and for those who did such things

 

I there something to be said for overcoming, or do you think that it would be much better to only live in a place as a fairytale, with never being exposed to difficult elements?

YES and YES again. A fairy tale where children are not abused? absolutly.

 

And, do you think that God caused these things, or man... given free will?

 

If you do not believe in God, then whose responsibility to these injustices is it?

Are we to have an obligation in the matter, or is it just God's?

 

Perhaps God gives us a needed plan to overcome these ways of man, not a need to overcome the ways of God?

 

Considering that the bible teaches that are relationsip to god is as children that he will care for? and then for him to do nothing? you tell me. He either doesn't exist or he is a liar. Either way, to hell with him.

 

Let me give you part of my story.

 

8 yrs = sexually abused by my uncle with him having my cousin do the same.

11-16 = abused sexually, physically, and emotionally by "christians". Spent everynight asking god to help. nothing. nada. DO I really have to go into the types of beatings? Or the tools used for the beatings? belts, the heel of my boots, a two by four, black eyes that kept me out of school for a week. Or having to spend a month in my room no school, no nothing but church over a stupid oreo cookie? the anal sex? You want a horror story, I can give you one.

 

How about having your child removed because you left the church? How about the ones lying in gods name always winning?

 

I want to know, what lesson was I supposed to learn? Where was god and his word? I was a christian, where the fuck was he? Free will? Lessons? Makes me stronger? Are you for real? I will give you the benefit of the doubt, otherwise I would not be so nice. You don't really believe that there "was a reason" do you?

 

[quote] IF one's spirit is energy..

the energy is in the world, surrounding it, not within myself.

 

[quote] Additionally, science says that most of EVERYTHING is energy, light, and electromagnetic charge. THAT is the popular scientific theory for now!

science supports the possiblity of energy, but it is on the outside, not in ones "spirit". there is nothing in science that states that we even have a spirit.

 

 

Some believe in paralell dimensions, some in reincarnation, and who knows how many other possibilities there are?

or nothing at all

 

Believing the bible does not mean to twist it in order to fit your perspective or your understanding. If you believe in it, then by all means start standing on what it says. Other wise you are making a mockery of both you god and yourself.

[Amanda]

Duder, I can see I'm a little late here... as I went out of town for the weekend... and Monday too. I did not have access to the internet. You've had some really great posts!

Amanda,

I certainly don't mean to offend you with my crass remarks. I really wouldn't glance (yes I would) no I wouldn't (yes I would) no I wouldn't...

Romans chapter 7.  ;-)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

'NO offense' I assure you!

 

And Romans 7 is a great chapter! I especially liked the conclusion...

 

7:25

I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve * the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

I personally think there is a way of reconciling the two harmoniously.

 

I think the rub here is that you CAN'T believe the Bible, AND still think there are 'other paths'... the Bible doesn't leave you that option.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It seems that there are many that teach a similar philosophy (path) as Jesus, and it was recognized back then... and Jesus seems to embrace them also...

 

Mr 9:40

For he that is not against us is on our part.

 

Lu 9:49

And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.

 

9:50

And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

 

If Jesus and God are one, and the only way to the Father is through Jesus, and if God doesn't want anyone to perish, and if I perish, then God can't possibly be all powerful, and if He's not all powerful, then He's not God, and if He's not God, then Jesus isn't God either, which if I remember, was kind of the original topic of this thread.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It seems to me that there is only one way to the Father (Truth) which is by Jesus, the hidden man of the heart... abiding in one's conscience. I think that no one will perish... as I believe we will ALL eventually end up in peace and joy with no one getting any more or any less.

 

You don't seem to believe the Bible cover to cover. That's fine, but I must point out that if you don't believe all of it, then according to the Bible itself, you don't really believe any of it.

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I do believe in the Bible cover to cover, in regards to the manuscript from which the King James Version was taken! There seems to me to be underlying messages, and in the process of understanding them they seem to have an inner transformational progression... IMHO.

[dogmatically_challenged]

dillusionl hogwash.