Proud Of What You Haven't Done

[Vendredie]

...And by "abstinence" I mean staying away from not only sex but from alcohol, smoking, other drugs, meat, junk food, religion, non-religion, anything anyone perceives as "bad".

 

The only things I haven't done from the above listed are sex, alcohol, smoking and drugs. Because sex has been beaten here over and over and over, I'll just do the drugs. It's so fucking annoying hearing about drugs/smoking/alcohol in school, because the message is the same as the one for sex: don't do it, ever, or you'll wind up dead in the street. While this may be true for some drugs like crack, heroin, meth, etc. it's really not as true for occasional drinking, it's not true at all for cigarettes or pot. Anyone who drinks is an alcoholic. Anyone who smokes is a suicidal maniac. You know how Xtians depict atheists? That's how everyone depicts smokers. It's so full of shit. Yeah, I think smoking is a horrible habit, not because of moral reasons, but because that shit really is bad for you. I wish my parents and aunts and uncles and grandma would stop, but they're not "bitter smokers", they're not trying to infringe on the rights of non-smoking family by smoking around us, and it's not that they don't care about their bodies. All this legislation states are passing to ban smoking in public? I don't mind it much, but seriously everyone who supports it seems to miss the point. It is about keeping air clean and about protecting the health of non-smokers. They see smokers as people who don't care. All they want is a damn cigarette while they drink in bars (which, by the way, does not make them alcoholic). Maybe smokers shouldn't smoke in restaurants, but all this activism is getting retarded. I'm not joining your stupid club just so I can be proud of something I DON'T FUCKING DO.

 

Seriously, this shit is getting retarded. Waving a huge flag over your head that says "I'm PROUD TO BE X-FREE" is fucking idiotic. I don't give a shit if you don't drink. I do drink occasionally, but not because I'm trying to get drunk. My parents have told me over and over that I am allowed to drink as long as I'm around adults, I'm not trashed and I'm not driving, and if I'm at home. The alcohol is stored on the bottom shelf of the pantry, where my sister and I could very very easily reach it. Am I an alcoholic? Are my parents alcoholics? Are they irresponsible? Are they fucking insane? The last may be true, but the first three sure as hell aren't. I don't drink all the time. I don't smoke. I don't smoke pot. I don't do crack or heroin or meth. I don't have sex. Why the fuck should I be proud of all of that? Shouldn't I be proud of something I *have* done, like getting good grades, or mastering drill or music in marching band, or writing a kick-ass poem? If I can be proud of not smoking cigs/pot/crack, can I be proud of not flaming people on Myspace? That's not a good habit either, and is much more harmful than a glass of wine at Christmas dinner.

 

And then there's vegetarians. Oh my god, (most) vegetarians are so fucking annoying. It's never health reasons. It's always animal rights. Not that there's anything wrong with not wanting to eat animals. I understand your choice. Now kindly shut the fuck up and let me eat my pork chop. Humans are animals. Animals have been eating animals since animals have existed. It's part of fucking nature. No, I don't like the abuse chickens and cows and pigs and turkeys go through. But yes, I do like meat. Now take all those stupid buttons off your Facebook, or your MySpace, because nobody.fucking.cares. "I don't eat meat" "proud to be meat-free!" oh, shut up. I don't like eating peas. Peas are disgusting.

 

Pea-free pride! PROUD TO BE PEA-FREE!

 

...god that sounds retarded.

 

[/rant]

[Guest Nacirema]

I agree on a lot of points, and I'd like to add a few things:

 

It's stupid to disagree with something just to disagree with it. If you're going to disagree with something, have a valid, logical reason for doing so. If you don't want to smoke pot because you say it destroys lives, and you point to a friend who burnt himself out, I'll understand. If you point to "Reefer Madness," I'm going to laugh at you.

The only thing I would add to the smoking is this: I disagree with legislating what can and can't be done inn privately owned restaurants and bars.

 

I'll skip the animal rights, as I could go into that all day. Long-story-short: I agree with everything you said.

Don't ever be proud of what you don't do: be proud of what you DO do.

[Skeptic]

I know what you mean about that, and it really bugs me, too. It's something that I encountered a lot in high school. The "good kids" were the ones who didn't drink, didn't smoke, didn't do drugs, didn't have sex (or, as I found out, might do these things but could hide it well), but these same kids were very snobby to the point of being downright mean, gossiped a lot, and were generally fake. The "bad kids" may have done these things and continued to do them without really caring what others thought, but were more likely to be genuine people. They weren't into drama and back stabbing and the other stupid crap that usually goes on in high school. I hung out with the "bad kids" in the latter part of high school, but I still didn't have sex, do drugs, etc. and they didn't really care. I was offered a cigarette a few times by some kids and when I said no, the person always said that he/she just assumed that I smoked and was glad that I didn't. What a person doesn't do (or pretends that they don't do) doesn't necessarily make that person "good". I'm glad you figured that out early. It takes some people a long time to realize that, and some never really do.

[Thurisaz]

:whs:

 

The reasonable way to find out whether you're a "good" person is to measure your actions against whatever ethical principles happen to define "good" where you are. As is so often the case with real life, this measurement can be a tough one to perform.

 

And then there's the easy way out - simply define "evil" as doing a certain thing, and voila!, as you don't do "that thing" you're automatically good.

 

And as pretty much always when I see references to vegetarians, I feel compelled to point out this...:

 

If a vegetarian claims "I don't want others to suffer for my life", she's a hypocrite. What she really means is "I don't want to see others suffer". Wonder whether vegetatians of that brand are born stupid or whether they had to train to become that dumb... since when, by Zeus' fat arse!, are plants not alive?!

[mwc]

I know what you mean about that, and it really bugs me, too. It's something that I encountered a lot in high school. The "good kids" were the ones who didn't drink, didn't smoke, didn't do drugs, didn't have sex (or, as I found out, might do these things but could hide it well), but these same kids were very snobby to the point of being downright mean, gossiped a lot, and were generally fake. The "bad kids" may have done these things and continued to do them without really caring what others thought, but were more likely to be genuine people. They weren't into drama and back stabbing and the other stupid crap that usually goes on in high school. I hung out with the "bad kids" in the latter part of high school, but I still didn't have sex, do drugs, etc. and they didn't really care. I was offered a cigarette a few times by some kids and when I said no, the person always said that he/she just assumed that I smoked and was glad that I didn't. What a person doesn't do (or pretends that they don't do) doesn't necessarily make that person "good". I'm glad you figured that out early. It takes some people a long time to realize that, and some never really do.

Heh. After I left (read: they tried to expel me and withhold all my grades) my Baptist school and wound up in public high school I discovered this. I would up with the "bad kids." The "pot heads." I didn't do any of that shit but I liked the music and I wore Ozzy shirts and Levi's with long hair. I "fit" the look. If they offered me anything I just said "no" and if it went any further (usually because they wanted a smoking/drinking buddy) I'd just say "Nah, I quit" and that would be it (if anything they'd say "I wish I could" or something like that). It wasn't like the bullshit they put on the TV for that crowd. I saw more "pressure" coming from the "in" crowds to the people in them to stay part of their clique. But maybe I got it wrong? Things always look different from the outside but I know I had a few friends that left the school with me and they "changed" quite dramatically depending on the group they wound up with (lost every last one of those friends too...which sucked).

 

mwc

[Guest Marty]

You know I am loathe to respond to the vegetarian comments for fear of starting a flame war, but I just want to set the record straight, at least as it pertains to me and my friends. I also want to say that I try hard to not announce to everyone that I am a vegetarian, but when I see/read misunderstandings about it, I do feel like I should at least try to set things straight.

 

I only know of one person who is a vegetarian for the reason you all listed above. He is not what I would consider the brightest bulb in the bunch, and often just parrots what he reads in PETA brochures. And I disagree with just about everything PETA does, so...

 

I am a vegetarian for simple efficiency and thats it (well, I do feel healthier too, but thats not why I started it). It takes 10 pounds of grain to grow one pound of beef, and half of the potable water in the U.S. goes to either feeding livestock or watering the crops we give to them. When I read these statistics (not from a vegetarian book, mind you) I realized that with close to 7 billion people on the planet and growing, meat production is just not sustainable in the long run.

 

I don't really care about the suffering of food animals because I think it reeks of anthropomorphism. I'm not saying they should be abused, just not that it factors into my diet choices (I eat cheese and eggs). But I do care about the suffering and starvation of humanity, and eating less meat or no meat at all frees up a whole lot of resources. I wish PETA would focus more on that, rather than on their anthropomorphic scare tactics, because all that does is cause the rest of society to have a warped understanding of the reasons why people choose to avoid animal products.

[mwc]

I am a vegetarian for simple efficiency and thats it (well, I do feel healthier too, but thats not why I started it). It takes 10 pounds of grain to grow one pound of beef, and half of the potable water in the U.S. goes to either feeding livestock or watering the crops we give to them. When I read these statistics (not from a vegetarian book, mind you) I realized that with close to 7 billion people on the planet and growing, meat production is just not sustainable in the long run.

Let me offer my counter-argument. <Ahem> FUC... Sorry, wrong counter argument.

 

All I care about is that it remains "sustainable" for the next, oh, 40 or so years. Then I could really care less. Just like this whole "oil dependency" thing. It's been good to me so far. Selfish? You bet. Screw you future people! You'll get things like flying cars. Holodecks or some cool shit like that. Maybe go to other planets. Perhaps even live without superstitions invading every facet of your life. So I'm eating tasty, tasty animals and dying of clogged arteries. If that's not a fair trade I don't know what is.

 

Thank you for reading my counter argument.

 

mwc

[Guest Marty]

So do you have children, mwc? My father said the same thing to me, don't know why he decided to have me if he doesn't give a shit about how he leaves the planet.

[Loren]

On the subject of rules for living/health/morality, Mark Twain said, "I always make it a point never to smoke more than one cigar... at a time. I have no other restrictions."

[Vendredie]

You know I am loathe to respond to the vegetarian comments for fear of starting a flame war, but I just want to set the record straight, at least as it pertains to me and my friends. I also want to say that I try hard to not announce to everyone that I am a vegetarian, but when I see/read misunderstandings about it, I do feel like I should at least try to set things straight.

 

I only know of one person who is a vegetarian for the reason you all listed above. He is not what I would consider the brightest bulb in the bunch, and often just parrots what he reads in PETA brochures. And I disagree with just about everything PETA does, so...

 

I am a vegetarian for simple efficiency and thats it (well, I do feel healthier too, but thats not why I started it). It takes 10 pounds of grain to grow one pound of beef, and half of the potable water in the U.S. goes to either feeding livestock or watering the crops we give to them. When I read these statistics (not from a vegetarian book, mind you) I realized that with close to 7 billion people on the planet and growing, meat production is just not sustainable in the long run.

 

I don't really care about the suffering of food animals because I think it reeks of anthropomorphism. I'm not saying they should be abused, just not that it factors into my diet choices (I eat cheese and eggs). But I do care about the suffering and starvation of humanity, and eating less meat or no meat at all frees up a whole lot of resources. I wish PETA would focus more on that, rather than on their anthropomorphic scare tactics, because all that does is cause the rest of society to have a warped understanding of the reasons why people choose to avoid animal products.

And that's cool. You're a vegetarian, I don't mind that. It's when other vegetarians go on and on and on about how cruel I'm being to some damn chicken who was raised for it. I don't have anything against vegetarians who just don't eat meat, just as I don't have anything against people who don't drink caffeine-loaded drinks. But with vegetarians I meet it's evanglizing that rivals Xtian missionaries. "what about the poor animals?!?! and it's UBER HEALTHY!" Well, eating meat can be just as healthy (if you don't eat too much red meat). As for the animals, well, it sucks that they suffer, but refusing to eat meat isn't going to stop it.

[woodsmoke]

"Did you hear what happened to the man who never smoked or drank, didn't eat red meat, exercised every day, ate sweets sparingly and went to church every Sunday? He died."

 

That may not be the exact quote (its length and complexity makes it a bitch to track down through Google), but it gets the point across, and it's one of my favorites.

 

It takes 10 pounds of grain to grow one pound of beef, and half of the potable water in the U.S. goes to either feeding livestock or watering the crops we give to them.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but it bears noting the notion of grain-fed cattle is fucking retarded and really needs to be stopped. Best damn beef I ever had came from my Grandpa's farm, who just fed them alfalfa year round, sometimes supplementing it with silage during the winter. 'Course, they were also more or less free-range, spending the summers up in the actual big ranges in the hills and winters on his farm, where there was still more than enough acreage for them to roam (~100 cattle on about 60 acres). I'm sure that had summat to do with it as well.

 

I do understand the national (let alone global) demand for beef is such that free-range ranching probably wouldn't be sufficient to sustain supply, but every time I drive across the midwest/great plains region I see an awful lot of rolling country not being used for anything which could easily sustain a hell of a lot of cattle without resorting to feed crops. Plus the fact, if cattle ranching were no longer dependent thereupon, the not insubstantial amount of land currently being used to raise those crops could be put to better use, or even converted to still more range.

[Vomit Comet]

Where I went to school, you were considered a pussy for not doing all that shit and then some. Abstainers would've kept it under wraps, risking utter ridicule or even an ass whoopin' if they went public with it.

[mwc]

So do you have children, mwc? My father said the same thing to me, don't know why he decided to have me if he doesn't give a shit about how he leaves the planet.

Lighten up a bit. I was having a little fun with you.

 

When I was growing up way back in the 70's I got a steady dose of short films about how, literally right now, we'd all have to go around wearing full protective body suits and breathing units to go outside. These were "informational" films to prepare us for how life would be. No if's, and's or but's. These were givens. Facts. Indisputable. Kind of like the crap I hear is in the Al Gore thing.

 

Maybe you'll get lucky and be among the first groups to get one of the predictions right? I just wouldn't bet on it (even that "jesus" thing is looking good). I'd put in for a holodeck or something like that.

 

mwc

[OpheliaGinger]

Let me go and find my Jr. Anti-Sex League sash.

[Thurisaz]

Oceaaaaaania 'tis for thee...

 

Ahem. We should stop this now or agree to officially hijack the thread

[Guest Marty]

So do you have children, mwc? My father said the same thing to me, don't know why he decided to have me if he doesn't give a shit about how he leaves the planet.

Lighten up a bit. I was having a little fun with you...

 

 

...Maybe you'll get lucky and be among the first groups to get one of the predictions right? I just wouldn't bet on it (even that "jesus" thing is looking good). I'd put in for a holodeck or something like that.

 

mwc

 

I wasn't upset...I get that "answer" a lot, as if it is supposed to "put me in my place". Instead I just see ignorance in it, but that's just me.

 

I don't understand what you mean by the last comment though. What did I predict? What group do I belong to? Maybe your not addressing me personally, but it sounds like you think I'm part of some doomsday group that thinks the world will end if everyone doesn't stop eating meat. I tried real hard to just write MY reasons for not eating meat, and not be preachy or condescending with it. Guess it didn't work

[mwc]

I wasn't upset...I get that "answer" a lot, as if it is supposed to "put me in my place". Instead I just see ignorance in it, but that's just me.

 

I don't understand what you mean by the last comment though. What did I predict? What group do I belong to? Maybe your not addressing me personally, but it sounds like you think I'm part of some doomsday group that thinks the world will end if everyone doesn't stop eating meat. I tried real hard to just write MY reasons for not eating meat, and not be preachy or condescending with it. Guess it didn't work

I wasn't trying to put you in your place. I was making a joke. Apparently it missed and now it's turned into something else.

 

Don't eat meat. Be my guest. But don't take my joke about eating lots and lots of meat and using up all the gas in trade for all the cool things you might get as an insult. If you look it over I die in my own joke. My lifestyle literally kills me. The joke is at my expense and I start the whole thing off with the little smiley thing (which I usually forget) to hopefully clue you in that it is just a joke.

 

As I said, I guess it missed and you've taken it as something it wasn't meant to be. I don't wish to argue about it. I don't wish to be seen as some sort of "proxy dad" that puts you in your "place." That's not my intent and never was.

 

mwc

[Vendredie]

Let me go and find my Jr. Anti-Sex League sash.

You know, even after 4 years, the stickers that my classmates got from the abstinence class we took in 7th grade- the ones that said "Safe sex is a dangerous game. Just say no!"- they're STILL on all of the lockers.

[Jedah]

When I was a teen, I used to find it ridiculously pathetic and annoying whenever some shit like "Gay pride", "Black Pride", "AzN Pride", "Heritage Pride"; "*insert something you were born into here* pride" parades or fund drives came about. Good for you, your different. Now get it out of my face. Go be proud about something you actually did. Drug free pride fell into the same category...its not worth being proud over.

 

I still do find it dumb of course, because it is. The only difference is that I no longer care. People will be stupid no matter what society deems appropriate, so rather then getting upset I just step aside, sigh, and think to myself: "Oooh there goes another retard parade. Woopdee fuckin doo."

[Vomit Comet]

When I was a teen, I used to find it ridiculously pathetic and annoying whenever some shit like "Gay pride", "Black Pride", "AzN Pride", "Heritage Pride"; "*insert something you were born into here* pride" parades or fund drives came about.

 

Unlike abstinence, there's actually a useful point to those, you know.

[Guest Marty]

I wasn't upset...I get that "answer" a lot, as if it is supposed to "put me in my place". Instead I just see ignorance in it, but that's just me.

 

I don't understand what you mean by the last comment though. What did I predict? What group do I belong to? Maybe your not addressing me personally, but it sounds like you think I'm part of some doomsday group that thinks the world will end if everyone doesn't stop eating meat. I tried real hard to just write MY reasons for not eating meat, and not be preachy or condescending with it. Guess it didn't work

I wasn't trying to put you in your place. I was making a joke. Apparently it missed and now it's turned into something else.

 

Don't eat meat. Be my guest. But don't take my joke about eating lots and lots of meat and using up all the gas in trade for all the cool things you might get as an insult. If you look it over I die in my own joke. My lifestyle literally kills me. The joke is at my expense and I start the whole thing off with the little smiley thing (which I usually forget) to hopefully clue you in that it is just a joke.

 

As I said, I guess it missed and you've taken it as something it wasn't meant to be. I don't wish to argue about it. I don't wish to be seen as some sort of "proxy dad" that puts you in your "place." That's not my intent and never was.

 

mwc

 

mwc, I'm not upset at all, I was only asking for clarification because, joke or not, I didn't understand what you were trying to say. I never said I thought you were putting me in my place, I said other people say that exact phrase to try and put me in my place. I think they think it is a "gotcha!" phrase similar to when xtians ask you "what if you're wrong?" It seems like most of the world finds it funny and entertaining to try and piss off vegetarians. You can literally see the attitude change in a lot of people the moment they find out you don't eat meat.

 

But I have the ability to laugh at myself, and at others. I don't take my diet all that seriously; it works for me, but what do I care what others eat? One of my favorite South Park episodes is when Stan stops eating meat and starts to develop little vaginas all over his body and the doctor tells his parents he's turning into a giant pussy because he is not eating meat. As a contrast, the one friend I know that parrots PETA brochures, was so pissed at that episode he went home halfway through it. He was so angry at a friggin' TV show.

 

As I said in the beginning, I only commented because it seemed people were thinking the only reason people don't eat meat is for anthropomorphic reasons, and I only wanted to give a different perspective. I think PETA is stupid and they publicize (IMHO) all the wrong reasons to adopt a meatless lifestyle. I was only giving my perspective, one that does not have any anthropomorphic reasoning behind it.

 

I'm sorry if I came across as upset or offended. I tried to write in a way that wouldn't give that impression, and I hardly ever think to add emoticons in my posts...

[par4dcourse]

Virtue is its own punishment.

- Aneurin Bevan

[Vomit Comet]

Virtue is its own punishment.

- Aneurin Bevan

 

Classic.

[Skankboy]

QUOTE (Jedah @ Apr 27 2009, 08:23 PM)

When I was a teen, I used to find it ridiculously pathetic and annoying whenever some shit like "Gay pride", "Black Pride", "AzN Pride", "Heritage Pride"; "*insert something you were born into here* pride" parades or fund drives came about.

 

 

Unlike abstinence, there's actually a useful point to those, you know.

Yeah - they create artificial divisions in society... Sorry, I'm just not up on the "pride" stuff either. You are what you are, great. Doesn't mean you deserve a parade...

[Vomit Comet]

Yeah - they create artificial divisions in society... Sorry, I'm just not up on the "pride" stuff either. You are what you are, great. Doesn't mean you deserve a parade...

 

Lemme guess, you're a white guy....