Why Christians just don't get it

[vargo]

"After Jesus Christ we have no need of speculation, after the Gospels we have no need of research. When we come to believe, we have no desire to believe anything else; for we begin by believing that there is nothing else with which we have to believe.... My first principle is this. Christ laid down one definite system of truth which the world must believe without qualification." *1

 

"I believe because it is impossible." *2

 

Church Father Tertullian (160-220?)

 

 

After reading the Bible, many people are mystified as to why grown, otherwise intelligent adults would believe that it is the direct communication or the "inspired Word" of an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-good being. To many people, it seems absolutely incredible that any reasonable person could maintain this belief in the face of our current scientific knowledge and the contemporary understanding of history, religion and mythology. To outsiders, the phenomenon of Christian belief is a puzzlement.

 

However, after a bit of research and reflection, the mystery is resolved. It soon becomes apparent that the whole bizarre Christian belief system is predicated, to a large degree, on two compelling ideas. The first idea is that maintaining faith in Bible claims is the most morally virtuous act one can perform and will be rewarded with an eternal life of bliss. The second belief is that doubting biblical claims represents the greatest evil imaginable and will be punished with an eternity of torture. These linchpin beliefs make it possible for Christians to accept thoroughly ridiculous biblical assertions not merely in the absence of evidence, but against the evidence-against reason.

 

The sanctification of "faith" and demonization of doubt short-circuits the thinking process. Since it is continually drilled into Christians' brains that faith must be maintained at all costs, anything which contradicts a Bible claim is automatically rationalized away as the arrogance of the "wise," as a ploy of Satan, or as a test of faith from God himself. So when it is explained and demonstrated to a Christian that the Bible is simply a collection of ancient writings masquerading as the "Word of God," this is dismissed as the delusion of unbelievers blinded by their sin. When scientific discoveries are shown to clearly, directly and unambiguously contradict biblical pronouncements, these scientific discoveries are interpreted by the Christian as satanic trickery. If it is patiently and painstakingly evinced to the Christian that the Bible is filled from one end to the other with obscene cruelty and violence, pagan mythology and superstition, blatant contradictions, ludicrous claims and out and out stupidity, the Christian smiles in the face of this, confident that his faith is being tested by God, and that he will be rewarded accordingly in the Age To Come.

 

It must be understood that in the Alice-in-Wonderland Christian world view, the more difficult it is to believe in a biblical claim, the more one is glorified for believing it. Faith, believing no matter what the facts say, is the highest manifestation of moral righteousness. Developing and maintaining one's faith in the preposterous and the incomprehensible becomes the ultimate purpose of life. Tertullian's declaration, "I believe because it is impossible," is the boast of a man who celebrates his irrationality. While liberal Christians today may pay lip service to the notion of a reasonable faith, the sentiment of Tertullin's inane "I believe because it is impossible" is alive and well and continues to be spouted from church pulpits every Sunday morning: "Brethren, did not Paul say that God will make foolish the wisdom of the world, and choose that which is foolish to shame the wise of the world? Brothers and Sisters, did not JEEEZ-ZUSS tell us that unless we become as little children we will never enter the kingdom of heaven, that God has chosen to hide his light from the eyes of the wise and reveal himself to babes?" Reason and knowledge are ridiculed while biblical absurdities are held aloft as bless-ed revelation. This is how Christianity sustains itself. It is the only way that it can.

 

Thus the Christian faith's invisible attributes are now clearly to be seen. Behind all the sacraments and the rituals, the organ music and the angelic choirs, the praying lips and the arms thrust heavenward, the echoing preachments and the soaring cathedrals, behind all this, propping it all up, is the monstrous doctrine that gullibility and ignorance are divine. It is what makes everything else in the religion possible, be it a three-equals-one god, a talking jackass, a worldwide flood, water-walking, resurrections or, even, weekly church collections.

 

Please don't try to explain all this to a Christian though, for it has been most assuredly foretold that he would be mocked and persecuted for Jesus' sake by the wise of a fallen, perishing world. Yea, lo, verily, for it has been written...

[bluewizard]

God is ok to believe in as a child but I'm older now at 16 and fairy tales make no sense anymore. There is no magic man in the sky, the Bible is lies, and moral is how we treat others.

[Checkmate]

Umm...Before I accuse anyone of anything, I must ask you something...Vargo, are YOU the author of this piece? If you aren't, then you're guilty of plagarism for not citing your source. Why Christians Just Don't Get It

 

If this is your work, just let me know.

[Eponymic]

Reason and knowledge are ridiculed while biblical absurdities are held aloft as bless-ed revelation. This is how Christianity sustains itself. It is the only way that it can.

 

 

Of all the sad idiocyncracies Christianity causes, one of the tops has to be that of the intelligent person. Who, because they are so afraid of being wrong, seen as stupid, or whatever, will justify Biblical lore to tenth power just so they can maintain their veil of strength or whatever they think it is they have.

[vargo]

Why Christians just don't get it- My source of info.

[vargo]

Umm...Before I accuse anyone of anything, I must ask you something...Vargo, are YOU the author of this piece?  If you aren't, then you're guilty of plagarism for not citing your source.  Why Christians Just Don't Get It

 

If this is your work, just let me know.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

SORRY, I'm new to this whole forum posting thing. LOL

[Max]

This is magnified by a sense that if you really believe a thing, it must be true. Never mind that people once believed that the earth was flat, or that illness could be cured by removing the bad blood, though neither of those things were ever true.

[Panther]

Good article Vargo!

[bygracealonethrufaith]

I understand your observations may have some reasoning ...but the question I have is;

 

#1what do you Believe?

 

#2Why?

 

#3 Who told you to believe that way ?

 

#4Why?

 

Basically you are believing something and using belief systems .

 

Then tell my why you believe in them?

[Panther]

I understand your observations may have some reasoning ...but the question I have is;

 

#1what do you Believe?

 

#2Why?

 

#3 Who told you to believe that way ?

 

#4Why?

 

Basically you are believing something and using belief systems .

 

Then tell my why you believe in them?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

The idea here is to believe in what is truth, not what one WANTS to be truth.

[Ouroboros]

I understand your observations may have some reasoning ...but the question I have is;

 

#1what do you Believe?

 

About what? What do I believe about the Iraq war? Or what do I believe about the Bible God? Or what do I believe about FSM?

 

#2Why?

 

Why not?

 

#3 Who told you to believe that way ?

 

Life and experience.

 

#4Why?

 

Why not?

 

Basically you are believing something and using belief systems .

 

Sure. I believe we need food to eat to survive. I believe we need to work to make money.

 

Then tell my why you believe in them?

 

Because when I don't eat I get very hungry and tired, and eating has been proven to me through a miracle to help me overcome the hunger and get more energy.

 

Through another miracle I noticed that when I had my first job, after a couple of weeks I got a check with money to my bank account. Glory! So I believe work pays of as money. I've seen the evidence.

[bygracealonethrufaith]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No really ...What do you choose to believe?

You are using your belief's in many avenues here on earth...

so you choose to conviently not believe something... so thereby is it not true?

 

So if I were standing over there by you and you threw a quarter over the fence with out telling me it was a quarter...I might believe it was a nickle,or maybe a dime?or maybe a penny?

 

So, When we both walk over and take a look we see that the true coin is that the quarter is the one you threw over the fence.Sometimes life deals us out issues and people are often just human and have erred in a wrong way towards any of us and we can throw away the truth but not really ever forget what the truth really is. That is why a forum like this is a good way to communicate and reason together.thanks forum.

[Ouroboros]

No really ...What do you choose to believe?

You are using your belief's in many avenues here on earth...

so you choose to conviently not believe something... so thereby is it not true?

 

So if I were standing over there by you and you threw a quarter over the fence with out telling me it was a quarter...I might believe it was a nickle,or maybe a dime?or maybe a penny?

 

So, When we both walk over and take a look we see that the true coin is that the quarter is the one you threw over the fence.Sometimes life deals us out issues and people are often just human and have erred in a wrong way towards any of us and we can throw away the truth but not really ever forget what the truth really is. That is why a forum like this is a good way to communicate and reason together.thanks forum.

Doesn't most of faith and belief come from observations and repetition of those observations? Like you drop a pen and it falls, and you repeat it and eventually you will have the "faith" in that the pen will drop to the ground when you let it go. Most "faith" or "beliefs" are based on experience, even the things we read or hear from people. When someone tell me something, based on my experience I will chose to trust this person and believe what he's saying, or I might not believe it because maybe I had bad experience of being fooled.

 

You believe (I assume) in the Bible version of God, and you do so because you chose to trust the source of that faith. You trust that your parents, teachers, preachers, writers of the book to have been honest with you and tell you the truth.

 

I know there are things that I trust more than others, and you can call it faith or belief is you so want. That's your prerogative. Even opinions could be called a belief. But usually when we use the word belief we use it in regards to faith in a supreme being of some sort, and this I don't have. I have no faith or belief in a being that created the universe or us, but that doesn't mean that I could be wrong. I didn't base my opinion on that matter on someones words but purely on the situations in life and the experience that occured in my life. The only teachings and knowledge I had before those incidents were Biblical and Christian. But the experiences showed me the fallacy of the Biblical Faith as such.

 

***edit

 

I came to a fork in the road, and had to chose to believe in a vengeful, untrustworthy, uncaring, hateful and unloving God, or just not to believe in a God at all. So if you want to know what I chose to believe, it was to NOT to believe.

[bygracealonethrufaith]

Doesn't most of faith and belief come from observations and repetition of those observations? Like you drop a pen and it falls, and you repeat it and eventually you will have the "faith" in that the pen will drop to the ground when you let it go. Most "faith" or "beliefs" are based on experience, even the things we read or hear from people. When someone tell me something, based on my experience I will chose to trust this person and believe what he's saying, or I might not believe it because maybe I had bad experience of being fooled.

 

You believe (I assume) in the Bible version of God, and you do so because you chose to trust the source of that faith. You trust that your parents, teachers, preachers, writers of the book to have been honest with you and tell you the truth.

 

I know there are things that I trust more than others, and you can call it faith or belief is you so want. That's your prerogative. Even opinions could be called a belief. But usually when we use the word belief we use it in regards to faith in a supreme being of some sort, and this I don't have. I have no faith or belief in a being that created the universe or us, but that doesn't mean that I could be wrong. I didn't base my opinion on that matter on someones words but purely on the situations in life and the experience that occured in my life. The only teachings and knowledge I had before those incidents were Biblical and Christian. But the experiences showed me the fallacy of the Biblical Faith as such.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have an observation

you wrote...

 

The first idea is that maintaining faith in Bible claims is the most morally virtuous act one can perform and will be rewarded with an eternal life of bliss. The second belief is that doubting biblical claims represents the greatest evil imaginable

 

I observed here in what you wrote "the first idea" act and perform...The real message I would like to share here is that God so LOVED that He Gave... it was really His love for all of us that sent Jesus to the Cross. there is nothing that you or I could ever do to add to or take away from What Jesus already did on the Cross.

 

#1 Christ dying for our sins is the one "act" of abolishing sin and it's slavery.Also Jesus Himself is the one that "performed" the finshed work on the Cross.

 

John 3:16; Col 2:14,15; Eph 2:8,9

[Asimov]

#1 Christ dying for our sins is the one "act" of abolishing sin and it's slavery.Also Jesus Himself is the one that "performed" the finshed work on the Cross.

 

Uh, Christ didn't die though.

[bygracealonethrufaith]

***edit

 

I came to a fork in the road, and had to chose to believe in a vengeful, untrustworthy, uncaring, hateful and unloving God, or just not to believe in a God at all. So if you want to know what I chose to believe, it was to NOT to believe.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

My faith rests in relationship with God as a person.Many have misrepresented Him ;thereby in turn may have been the cause of real pain from the poison arrows of the enemy to wound many would be followers of the true relationship Christ offers.I myself have been a victim of the crossfire.it was very painful and cause me years of setbacks.I never blamed Jesus because He is not the one that did it.He himself confronted the same types of people ;look at Luke 4:18- end of the chapter.So was Christ thrown out of the temple and they tried to cast Him off of the cliff. Jesus loved the ordinary person .I myself was wounded many times from everyside. it was during those times, I had to Choose to trust in the Person Jesus and not the myth of the misrepresentation of Him. It is like going to a company where the customer service rep treats you like the enemy and gives you a bad taste of the entire company.Which in turn makes you choose to hate it and give it a bad rap.

[Ouroboros]

I have an observation

you wrote...

 

The first idea is that maintaining faith in Bible claims is the most morally virtuous act one can perform and will be rewarded with an eternal life of bliss. The second belief is that doubting biblical claims represents the greatest evil imaginable

 

I observed here in what you wrote "the first idea" act and perform...The real message I would like to share here is that God so LOVED that He Gave... it was really His love for all of us that sent Jesus to the Cross. there is nothing that you or I could ever do to add to or take away from What Jesus already did on the Cross.

 

#1 Christ dying for our sins is the one "act" of abolishing sin and it's slavery.Also Jesus Himself is the one that "performed" the finshed work on the Cross.

 

John 3:16; Col 2:14,15; Eph 2:8,9

You mix us up, I didn't write that.

 

But to answer you, I was Christian, but is no more. God didn't love anyone, since he doesn't exist. Jesus didn't die for our sins, since he never existed in the first place. No act of abolishment of sins was performed. If that was the case, why does God still punish people for sins? Why did the Hurricane Katrina allegedly (according to Christians) destroy New Orleans because of the gay parade? So tell me why God is punishing America for sins, when Jesus abolished the sins through the love from God?

[bygracealonethrufaith]

So you choose to conveinently NOT believe in Allah?  I don't believe in your god for the same reasons that you do not believe in Allah.  You can't apply your standards on us when you don't do the same thing.

It's only real in your opinion because the bible says so. 

Again, your opinion based on what your holy book says.  I have no sins in need of dying for.  Matter of fact, I find myself more moral than the biblical god and jesus.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That is the point this is your forum that is setting the standards and I am observing the point you have set here.So do you believe in your prophet? How then are you supposed to recieve a Prophet?your holy book reconizes Jesus as a prophet but if you reconize Him as a Prophet then why don't you recieve His Words?

 

Jesus Himself came against and refuted legalism to the point of fullfilling it completely and taking it out of the way by nailing it to His Cross.

Col 2:15

 

it is played out here by what you are writing it is ok for you to conviently pick the ones you do not want to follow.you are following a total legalist system of works and the difference is Christ came to fullfill the Law and it's legalities that condemn others as infidels and tell their followers to put them to death that do not believe in your legal system.The reason many come to Christ is the message of Grace ,truth and love He represents and continues to this day.

[Asimov]

it is played out here by what you are writing it is ok for you to conviently pick the ones you do not want to follow.you are following a total legalist system of works and the difference is Christ came to fullfill the Law and it's legalities that condemn others as infidels and tell their followers to put them to death that do not believe in your legal system.The reason many come to Christ is the message of Grace ,truth and love He represents and continues to this day.

 

I can't stand this hubris...

 

you can't demonstrate that what you believe is true, you only state it as such.

[Ouroboros]

***edit

 

I came to a fork in the road, and had to chose to believe in a vengeful, untrustworthy, uncaring, hateful and unloving God, or just not to believe in a God at all. So if you want to know what I chose to believe, it was to NOT to believe.

 

My faith rests in relationship with God as a person.Many have misrepresented Him ;thereby in turn may have been the cause of real pain from the poison arrows of the enemy to wound many would be followers of the true relationship Christ offers.I myself have been a victim of the crossfire.it was very painful and cause me years of setbacks.I never blamed Jesus because He is not the one that did it.He himself confronted the same types of people ;look at Luke 4:18- end of the chapter.So was Christ thrown out of the temple and they tried to cast Him off of the cliff. Jesus loved the ordinary person .I myself was wounded many times from everyside. it was during those times, I had to Choose to trust in the Person Jesus and not the myth of the misrepresentation of Him. It is like going to a company where the customer service rep treats you like the enemy and gives you a bad taste of the entire company.Which in turn makes you choose to hate it and give it a bad rap.

It wasn't me personally that got hurt but my family.

 

We prayed for protection, God showed his mercy, GLORY!, by physically injuring them beyond repair, and they still suffer years after. My only conclusion was that God didn't have time or didn't care to answer our prayer for protection, but wanted instead to make a point in how untrustworthy he is by nearly killing my entire family in his glory. That proved to me that God either is evil or he doesn't exist.

 

If God exists, then I love my family much, much, much more than he does, and he's going to be accountable for his acts to me in the end. God is going to hell for his evil actions, not me, since my actions are far less sinful than his. God broke his own promises, even after he says that we should hold ours. So again, there is no Bible version of God. There could be a mystical force of life, but no God that we have to adore and worship.

[bygracealonethrufaith]

And here we have yet another Christian that thinks we left the faith because we were hurt by Christians.  I wish that you all would STOP assuming that! 

 

The bible does a good job of its own, turning people from the faith.  Thank goodness!  The bible portrays god and jesus as EVIL, not Christians.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Please may I ask you a question?

Have you ever really accepted Jesus?

if you have or have not then you are in one of three catagories

 

#1- A true believer

 

#2- A make believer

 

#3- A nonbeliever

 

Every nonbeliever is a candadate to become one. There is hope.

[Ouroboros]

Please may I ask you a question?

 

Have you ever really accepted Jesus? Yes once, but now not

 

if you have or have not then you are in one of three catagories

 

#1- A true believer Yes, but it depends on what you mean with a True Believer™

 

#2- A make believer No, but depends on definition from you

 

#3- A nonbeliever Yes, nowdays

 

Every nonbeliever is a candadate to become one. There is hope.

Don't hold your breath, you migth suffocate

[white_raven23]

#1what do you Believe?

 

I'm a deist. I believe there is a god. But I do not believe any religion has it "right". Religion serves to pacify and control the masses while enriching a few. Religion is a human construct. Because I don't believe in religion, I don't form too much speculation about god. God hasn't personally spoken to me, and I really don't think it's my place to make assumption about god. Others have, leading to religion. Cruelty, genocide, and prejudice are the ultimate offspring of those assumptions.

 

#2Why?

I saw that religion was flawed. My questions went unanswered. This created anxieties. I used to overcompensate for those anxieties. After some study, I found that religion does more overall harm in a person's life, than good. I abandoned religion (the freedom from anxiety was so beautiful, I was in tears. I didn't know I was enslaved until I removed my chains), and cast about for myself for what was more "right".

#3 Who told you to believe that way ?

No one. This was something I had to "feel out" for myself. I didn't want someone else's beliefs, I wanted my own.

#4Why?

After I'd figured out for myself what I believed, I found myself frustrated by other people who were curious, and I found explaining myself took way too much time. So I got on the internet, and started reading up on beliefs searching for the "label" (one word description) that would adequately cover what I believed. I found deism. It was simple enough....the shoe fit. Even if people still don't understand what a deist is....even the laziest person can look it up for themselves online, wheras a ten to 20 minute explanation of what I believed was tedious (for me) and confusing (to them).

[Ouroboros]

Your vote, members: is Bgatf another Sbf?

[bygracealonethrufaith]

It wasn't me personally that got hurt but my family.

 

We prayed for protection, God showed his mercy, GLORY!, by physically injuring them beyond repair, and they still suffer years after. My only conclusion was that God didn't have time or didn't care to answer our prayer for protection, but wanted instead to make a point in how untrustworthy he is by nearly killing my entire family in his glory. That proved to me that God either is evil or he doesn't exist.

 

If God exists, then I love my family much, much, much more than he does, and he's going to be accountable for his acts to me in the end. God is going to hell for his evil actions, not me, since my actions are far less sinful than his. God broke his own promises, even after he says that we should hold ours. So again, there is no Bible version of God. There could be a mystical force of life, but no God that we have to adore and worship.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Satan comes as a angel of light.Could it be that you were on the wrong foundation the one that is not founded on grace alone thru faith alone in Christ Jesus alone for your salvation or someone may have unknowingly preach another gospel to your family and there by trying to earn salvation instead of resting in what Jesus did for you being 100% God 100% Human 100% of the time.So Jesus notonly forgives you but He also imputes His righteousness to you so you can have access to God .

 

read Gal 1:7-9 about another gospel out there that really is not a gospel at all.it is the wrong gospel that brings a curse and people blame God instead of finding the truth and make the adjustments.You are still a candidate.