Why Christians just don't get it

[bygracealonethrufaith]

You mix us up, I didn't write that.

 

But to answer you, I was Christian, but is no more. God didn't love anyone, since he doesn't exist. Jesus didn't die for our sins, since he never existed in the first place. No act of abolishment of sins was performed. If that was the case, why does God still punish people for sins? Why did the Hurricane Katrina allegedly (according to Christians) destroy New Orleans because of the gay parade? So tell me why God is punishing America for sins, when Jesus abolished the sins through the love from God?

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I believe that this is the earth's condition from the fall of man and it is subject to futility.A fallen world has these types of conditions that were not there before the fall.This is not God's Judgment but a condition of the earth being corrupted.God promises to create a New Heavens and a New Earth. He is Creator.He Creates.Theses are signs possibly spoken of in Matt 24: 6-8

 

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

 

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

 

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

 

 

When God finally judges the world everyone will know it.

That is why it is so important to take care of the matters of eternity.Jesus had taken our sin judgment on Himself on the Cross. He not only forgives us but also imputs His righteousness to us.So that we may participate in His right standing with God by undeserved favor=Grace ,mercy.

[Merlinfmct87]

THEN YOU ARE NOT ADHEREING TO THE fORUM .iT IS FOR EXCHRISTIANS AND CHRISTIANS.

 

So are you a disgruntled ex=christian?

 

if not you are a candidate for salvation.

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*raises his hand*

 

Proudly never was and never will be. The moderators have never given me any grief about debating here.

 

Don't put your own mis-typed words in the admin's mouths.

 

Vargo, the article you posted here was a fascinating read, thank you very much for posting it.

 

Merlin

[bygracealonethrufaith]

And you're not a channel for his grace and knowledge, so whatever you say is still wrong.

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whatever I say is wrong? Based on what?

[Ouroboros]

Ever Read the Ten Commandments?

Sounds like preaching to me.

 

If I start swearing, will you leave in anger or ignore me? Are you 70 years old and demand respect from us?

 

#1Have you ever told a lie?  Yup, not when I was Christian, but now when I'm apostate, I have told a few.

 

#2 I have.what would that make me? A hypocrite? Or maybe untrustworthy, so we shouldn't really listen to you?

 

#3Have you ever stolen from anyone? Yup.

 

#4I have ...what would that make me? A thief.

 

#5 Have you ever look on someone with lust in your heart? Oooh! Absolutely! Droool...

 

#6  I have...What would that make me? Normal? Human?

 

My concience is bearing witness that I am a sinner Not mine. I'm not hearing any voices in my head telling me how bad I am for doing these things.

 

The Law of God is good converting the soul,So we see that we are by nature lawbreakers.We cannot do anything to get ourselves out of the box of sin.That is Why Jesus is so loved by His children because He took us out of the box of sin.He did this by fullfilling the Law we broke time and time again.He did it once and for All.That is good news. But Jesus never existed, so he didn't pay for the sins. Besides when I go to the store and pay for something, I leave the money there, I don't take it back. Jesus was the sacrificial lamb, the payment for our sins, but Jesus was (according to the myths) resurrected again, so he's not dead, and God took the payment back. So we still have to pay for the sins, Jesus didn't stay dead, so the contract and the payment is null and void.

[Ouroboros]

Who is We ? or you mean you?

I'm one of the "We", so "We" are at least two.

[bygracealonethrufaith]

So god saves everyone then? 

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So God wants to save everyone.That is the ones who believe in His Son Jesus who died in their place.That is the truth and it is the best news on the planet!

[Kryten]

I cannot convert anyone it is God that can reveal Himself to you directly.

I am only giving you the word that may spark your interest to seek the truth truthseeker ?

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I'll bite... Are you seeking truth? Or just repeating what you've heard in church?? If you want to know the truth, then do some reading on your own. Don't come in here and accuse people who were long-time, sincere, and loyal Christians of not ever being one, or of following a "different gospel". Many of us were just like you, thought like you, acted like you, and made the same arguments you are making now. We had personal relationships with Jesus, or so we thought. We talked to him daily, seeking his will and trying to get closer and more pure.

 

But as it turns out, it was all based on man-made stories and church rules designed to keep its sheep in line. You don't have to dig very deep to discover that Jesus didn't really exist, and his character is based on many previous saviours with identical attributes. No one who lived during the time he supposedly did ever wrote a single word about him. Check it out for yourself.

 

The bible wasn't even written until many decades after he is said to have lived, and there are many different accounts and stories, all contradicting parts of the others. Many books were tossed because the church didn't like them, others included even though the contradictions remained. Where is the devine inspiration?

 

In my search for truth, I've learned there is no evidence of an actual Jesus and the "word of God" is full of errors and immoral acts by god. Church history is deplorable, there are THOUSANDS of denominations all built on the same infallable scriptures, and a real loving god couldn't possibly send billions to eternal torture because they didn't buy the flimsy bible stories or were born in a muslim country. Is that the god you worship? Do you think he will magically present the gospel to those who never heard it and THEN let them decide? Why don't we all get that chance?? The bible actually supports abortion and slavery, demeans women and the imperfect, and the church in Acts is communist.

 

If you want to know the truth, start using your head and do some research. Don't CHOOSE to be an idiot if you have alternatives.

[Ouroboros]

symantics will get you nowhere.

It was the physical death of Jesus on the Cross was teltelisti =Perfect Sacrifice.He is the ReaL DEAL.

But Jesus wasn't physical. He never existed. So he wasn't any perfect sacrifice.

 

If he had been the perfect sacrifice he should still be dead in the grave for us to see. And with miracles happening around it, and angels standing next to it day and night. That would have been something.

 

Now, Jesus was only dead for 2.5 days, that doesn't constitute for 3 days, and there are magicians that have been able to suspend their bodily functions and pulse for 3 days, and can be diagnosed clinical dead. So Jesus could have pulled this of as a magic trick, and never died.

[bygracealonethrufaith]

Human.

Human.

Human.

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Answers

liar

theif

fornicator

 

it brings you to the place of being a sinner,and your own concience bears witness that it is true.

 

now you are a human and a sinner and also a candidate to have eternal salvation Thru grace alone thru faith alone in Christ alone.

[Ouroboros]

I haven't seen any mods giving their two cents to this new christian member.

 

Is one of our own "pretending" again?

I've been thinking the same. Just a good laugh if it is so.

 

But he does sound a bit like SavedByFaith last month...

[bygracealonethrufaith]

You sure?

 

Exodus 34You wanna check you've got the right set of commandments, since you seem to be teaching a set that the bible contradicts... and you know what that means.

 

Eternal hell for you... according to jesus.

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I amy be guilty but I am not responsible...Jesus Took all of that for me on his Cross and You too can be saved.

[Checkmate]

When God finally judges the world everyone will know it.

That is why it is so important to take care of the matters of eternity.Jesus had taken our sin judgment on Himself on the Cross. He not only forgives us but also imputs His righteousness to us.So that we may participate in His right standing with God by undeserved favor=Grace ,mercy.

Un-huh. Say, Bygrace, since you seem SO knowledgeable about "Jesus' sacrifice", could you take some time to peruse this thread?

IS IT FINISHED OR NOT? To date not ONE Christian has attempted to answer my question. I figured someone of YOUR knowledge would have no problem with such a simple query. And by all means, take your time. I won't be holding my breath.

[Ouroboros]

whatever I say is wrong? Based on what?

Because you're not one of Gods prophets. And you admit that you have told lies. And you tell me things that are exactly the same as my pastor, and you say that he was lying to me, which means that what you're saying is a lie too, since you and him are saying the same things. So you are wrong.

[BeccasStillSeeking]

I understand your observations may have some reasoning ...but the question I have is;

 

#1what do you Believe?

 

#2Why?

 

#3 Who told you to believe that way ?

 

#4Why?

 

Basically you are believing something and using belief systems .

 

Then tell my why you believe in them?

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SavedByFaith, that's a lousy "stealth handle".

[Asimov]

liar

 

Wrong, look it up in the dictionary.

 

A liar is someone who LIES. Plural. It connotates consistent lying form a person.

 

theif

 

Wrong, look it up in the dictionary.

 

A thief is someone who STEALS. Plural. It also connotates consistent thievery, especially with stealth.

 

fornicator

 

Wrong, fornication is the act of having sex without being married, besides, Jesus said that someone who looks upon a woman with lust in his heart is an adulterer, not a fornicator.

 

it brings you to the place of being a sinner,and your own concience bears witness that it is true.

now you are  a human and a sinner and also a candidate to have eternal salvation Thru grace alone thru faith alone in Christ alone.

 

Nope, my conscience is clean, bygrace.

[Ouroboros]

So God wants to save everyone.That is the ones who believe in His Son Jesus who died in their place.That is the truth and it is the best news on the planet!

 

Did Jesus save us, or does God still have to save us?

 

Which one is it?

 

Did it happen, done and over with, or is it something that God still has to do?

 

Make up your mind!

[bygracealonethrufaith]

I've been thinking the same.  Just a good laugh if it is so.

 

But he does sound a bit like SavedByFaith last month...

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I am only sharing love ,truth and it is the real deal that is what the true Gospel does it seeps in and blesses you and helps you see God as a friend once again.

 

 

 

by the way I am a new member

[crazy-tiger]

I amy be guilty but I am not responsible...Jesus Took all of that for me on his Cross and You too can be saved.

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Sorry, but it's made clear that any who preach false gospel will pay the price.

 

Jesus only paid the price for those who believe in him, and by preaching false gospel, you show that you DON'T!

 

Read the bible, and learn just how screwed you are.

 

 

 

By the way, since there's TWO sets of ten commandments, whichever one you use is contradicted by the bible which means you're preaching false gospel no matter which you chose to use.

 

Even if you believe in jesus, you are STILL condemned by that...

[Ouroboros]

Answers

liar

theif

fornicator

 

it brings you to the place of being a sinner,and your own concience bears witness that it is true.

 

now you are  a human and a sinner and also a candidate to have eternal salvation Thru grace alone thru faith alone in Christ alone.

 

So you feel that it's justified with eternal damnation and burning in hell for a lie or stealing something? A little sin result in a infinitely huge punishment. God smashes flyes with nuclear bombs, while at the same time a tiny little human needs food for the day, and God sends a hurricane to kill them in his grace and glory. Isn't God wonderful, he loves us so much that he wants to kill us before we get saved. He want to make sure and guarrantee that people go to hell, just for the heck of it. Glory!

[bygracealonethrufaith]

Un-huh.  Say, Bygrace, since you seem SO knowledgeable about "Jesus' sacrifice", could you take some time to peruse this thread?

IS IT FINISHED OR NOT?  To date not ONE Christian has attempted to answer my question.  I figured someone of YOUR knowledge would have no problem with such a simple query.  And by all means, take your time.  I won't be holding my breath. 

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Jesus Said it is finished.So it is finished.

 

 

it like when the world war II was over and the americans won !

imagine the german prison camps still telling the pows not to leave.

most Christians backslide because they are in the wrong position and wrong identity.

 

The enemy can only rule you thru fear and deception.Grace and Truth is the antidote.

that is why Jesus told Nicodemis to be born again. in John 3

God will give you a new spirit .after you are saved you need to reconize that your mind needs to catch up with your new spirit so the enemy cannot get over on you.

[Ouroboros]

I am only sharing love ,truth and it is the real deal that is what the true Gospel does it seeps in and blesses you and helps you see God as a friend once again.

by the way I   am a new member

Ah good! We like fresh meat. We have had people changing member names to try to fool us, so we're a bit suspicious.

 

God wasn't my friend when I was his, and I gave him 11000 days of my life to show me that he loved me as much as I loved him. He didn't. So, sorry, 11,000 chances are 10999 too many.

 

You might think you share love, truth and the real gospel, but you have been deceived and stir up emotions and anger instead. When people refuse you listen to you, you will only see that as a sign that they have the devil in them, and you have the truth, while the real Truth is that you live in a fantasy world.

[Ouroboros]

Jesus Said it is finished.So it is finished.

it like when the world war II was over and the americans won !

imagine the german prison camps still telling the pows not to leave.

most Christians backslide  because they are in the wrong position and  wrong identity.

 

The enemy can only rule you thru fear and deception.Grace and Truth is the antidote.

that is why Jesus told Nicodemis to  be born again. in John 3

God will give you a new spirit .after you are saved you need to reconize that your mind needs to catch up with your new spirit so the enemy cannot get over on you.

I would say, this is how you look to me right now:

a little shitzu barking at the doberman. Lot's of noise, but no real power behind it, and definitely no threat.

 

Jesus is a fantasy mythological character, so if he says it's finished, then it's only finished in the fantasy world, and not in the real world, so the payment still hasn't been paid in the real world. Get real man!

 

You are the POW in the camp, and the Church is telling you to stay, because the war is still going on, but the truth is that there is no God, no Jesus and no Salvation, but you still hide in you little Camp, like a scared little dog, barking.

[Saviourmachine]

I am only sharing love ,truth and it is the real deal that is what the true Gospel does it seeps in and blesses you and helps you see God as a friend once again.

by the way I   am a new member

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It would be fine if you - if you're inclined to spirituality - can aprove of the existence of mysterious matters. Why do you refer to the concept truth that is intertwined with the concept knowledge? If you do so you're on dangerous ground, because there are many here that rely on the rational part of the human mind. You're among lions like David hid from the soldiers of Saul. Which God do I have to befriend? The one of Judges 20:28b who ordered a civil war? Try to imagine the picture sketched in Judges 19-21 and ask yourself why you should recommend anyone this god as a friend.

[white_raven23]

Bygrace,

 

We don't believe the bible is anything more than fiction.

 

We don't need your approval for what we believe.

 

We don't need your forgiveness (or your biblegod's).

 

We don't need or want your religion.

 

And nothing you say is going to change this. Nothing.

 

Now.

 

If you are interested in our point of view, we can supply you with more than enough resource material for how we got to where we are now.

 

If you don't, move on to friendlier forums with people who are interested in your religion.

 

If you want to stick around and argue.....go right ahead, but don't whine and bitch when we get "mean".

 

Personally I think close-minded people like you should be required to get handicapped stickers for your cars.....but that's just me (unless othes want to agree).

 

We assume you are happy the way you are.

 

We are happy the way we are NOW.

[bygracealonethrufaith]

Because you're not one of Gods prophets. And you admit that you have told lies. And you tell me things that are exactly the same as my pastor, and you say that he was lying to me, which means that what you're saying is a lie too, since you and him are saying the same things. So you are wrong.

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Have you ever heard "you protest too much"

I was not intending to down your pastor by anymeans.I was asking a probing question as to find the wound=the wrong teaching if any?

Kinda like a paramedic would do is apply the pressure to stop the bleeding.Let me ask you something? Have you lived with that pastor day and night?No ok so there are many ways the enemy can hit you with a dart of doubt,alittle legalism ,alittle guilt shame or blame? how about bookstores,television ,movies,radio,friends,foes all have an influence whether good or bad.

 

I remember a dog i had once that step on a wooden splinter in his paw and when i tried to help him and pull it out He would bite at me.No offense take I am focused to getting the poison out and it is the truth of God's Word that can truly displace the bad vibes from the pain in the brain.