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Bible Says Jesus Was Not Crucified - But Hanged On A Tree!


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Can any man be found willing to be fastened to the accursed tree, long sickly, already deformed, swelling with ugly tumours on chest and shoulders, and draw the breath of life amid long- drawn-out agony?

 

MWC - what is that are you quoting from Seneca as written in Latin and using the word "accursed tree" for a cross? What is the title of this text?

Ahhh. This you wish to check? It came from his "On the futility of planning ahead." It's a short letter. Seneca speaks in more than one place on crucifixion I believe. You may want to poke around his dialogues.

 

By the way to continue I need to presume that you are actually answering "yes" to the important question offered above. So, the Bible does say 3 times in the Acts that Jesus was hanged on a tree. I would remember that your opinion. Thank you.

Why must I agree with you in order for you to continue (or begin really)? You're the one that started by arguing the word "xylon/xulon" out of the gate. Had I wished to debate the commonly used word for "cross" in these texts we'd be looking at some variation of "stauros" and "stauroo" for "crucified" (both of which simply relate to stakes).

 

mwc

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Some call this situation "checkmate". White start and win. E2-E4, and you are free to go to the church.

Others call it hypocrisy.
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Guest marabod

Calm down, mwc, I practically ended my presentation, not without your substantial help. Thank you.

 

So, on the one hand we have a holy Bible, practically insisting that Jesus (either already dead or still alive) was hanged on a tree for the entire day, after which day Mary et al removed him from the tree and buried, all in full accordance to the Jewish law. 3 statements made by Evangelist Luke, support comes from peter and Paul, not saying about Deutoronomy.

 

On another hand we have a shy flock of the believers, accidentally found exactly at the thrilling moment when they were trying to brainwash the other respected forumers into them direct following the same holy-schmoly inerrant Bible. And these believers occur to be completely insolvent, when it comes to a simple question - if the Bible indeed contain a set of passages offered for consideration. Squeezed are their lips, and their bodies are in tremors, for they foresee the Anger and Curse of God for them either agreeing with the Biblical lie or denying it. How many times is it allowed to betray in Christianity? I think Peter was allowed 3 times before the rooster...

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Guest marabod

 

 

Some call this situation "checkmate". White start and win. E2-E4, and you are free to go to the church.

Others call it hypocrisy.

 

Call it... whatever you like. Happy further biblical studies. I'll be back shortly.

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So in other words, facts don't matter to you, Marabod? Only blind faith in your beliefs matter? Is your only response to anyone who criticizes your arguments to insult them and completely toss out facts and evidence?

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Shyone, I do not have any theories to date. For start I am trying to understand some psychological moments and mind control techniques. What has to be done to a human for this human to understand a short absolutely unambiguous phrase in exactly opposite sense? You may notice that no one so far actually admitted that the Bible repeats the same thing 3 times in one book and supports 3 times in the other books. "They" seem to be unable to say "Yes, the Bible says this but I think this is untrue", as this would mean that Bible either LIES, or talks POETRY, and how can one follow something that lies or talks poetry? Try following, say, Shakespeare! - as soon as you slay Malcolm, the cops would arrive and take you off the stage.

 

Well, if this is just poetical "cursed tree" instead of a cross - then immediately one may ask, where else in the Bible the poetry is used? How about the story of Creation? Of Abraham's human sacrifice? Of Jonah in a whale? Of virgin Mary? Of walking over waters? etc etc etc - many questions, and much less answers. "I follow the Bible" - this is what I mostly hear! So, I am intended to find out, how one can follow the Bible if the same someone de-facto agrees it says untrue things?

I think most people see something like this when they think of the verses in question:

 

http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47975

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Shyone, I do not have any theories to date. For start I am trying to understand some psychological moments and mind control techniques. What has to be done to a human for this human to understand a short absolutely unambiguous phrase in exactly opposite sense? You may notice that no one so far actually admitted that the Bible repeats the same thing 3 times in one book and supports 3 times in the other books. "They" seem to be unable to say "Yes, the Bible says this but I think this is untrue", as this would mean that Bible either LIES, or talks POETRY, and how can one follow something that lies or talks poetry? Try following, say, Shakespeare! - as soon as you slay Malcolm, the cops would arrive and take you off the stage.

 

Well, if this is just poetical "cursed tree" instead of a cross - then immediately one may ask, where else in the Bible the poetry is used? How about the story of Creation? Of Abraham's human sacrifice? Of Jonah in a whale? Of virgin Mary? Of walking over waters? etc etc etc - many questions, and much less answers. "I follow the Bible" - this is what I mostly hear! So, I am intended to find out, how one can follow the Bible if the same someone de-facto agrees it says untrue things?

I think most people see something like this when they think of the verses in question:

 

http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47975

 

 

Bwahaha {accounts for a friendly demonic laugh}. She looks great! I think I met her actually, but hardly remember as she for sure was not a virgin. She was with no beard those days too.

 

YeshuaupontheTree-pencil.jpg

 

All natural, except of course the cross on the drawing is of the artist's design - and we know that good artists are bad engineers.... Imagine a Boeing designed by Salvador Dali? Not only the cross is unhistorical and non-practical (first thing to go, the nails through the palms would rip the meat between the fingers - so the wretch would very soon fall head down and nose right to the base of the cross (hahaha! in a manner of a woodpecker!!!) BUT also his garland more resembles a vine than a thorn (was anyone here actually eating thorn plums? Hmmm...) This directly turns my mind to the heretic and infidel Mr Manly Hall, who wrote his admiration hymn to Bacchus (Dionisius), whose b-day (if my bullet-perforated memory serves me well) was something like December 25th... Cough... Cough... Or was it the infidel and heretic Mr Edward Schure? Dont remember, don't ask, just read both...

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So in other words, facts don't matter to you, Marabod? Only blind faith in your beliefs matter? Is your only response to anyone who criticizes your arguments to insult them and completely toss out facts and evidence?

 

 

Look... you... boy or girl... keep breathing, mate. The FACTS were presented, but you chose to wipe your dirty ...white virgin female Donkey... with those pages of the Bible which have these facts on them. Follower, my donkey! If I was Jesus and saw such a follower, I would've asked my Daddy to whack you with a lightning bolt, and generously season with fire and brimstone. I am a bloody Son of Lord God, whom the bastards hanged on a tree - and you call yourself my follower and walk around singing stupid hymns and insisting I was crucified! Go get an ice-cream, pal.

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Some call this situation "checkmate". White start and win. E2-E4, and you are free to go to the church.

Others call it hypocrisy.

I would call it a false dichotomy but it is known by a number of other names.

 

mwc

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Guest marabod
Look... you... boy or girl... keep breathing, mate. The FACTS were presented, but you chose to wipe your dirty ...white virgin female Donkey... with those pages of the Bible which have these facts on them. Follower, my donkey! If I was Jesus and saw such a follower, I would've asked my Daddy to whack you with a lightning bolt, and generously season with fire and brimstone. I am a bloody Son of Lord God, whom the bastards hanged on a tree - and you call yourself my follower and walk around singing stupid hymns and insisting I was crucified! Go get an ice-cream, pal.

 

Are you high?

 

Interesting question! no! Why?

 

I do not use any drugs except tobacco and alcohol. I do not like to lose the control of my brain. I am an oldie.

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Calm down, mwc, I practically ended my presentation, not without your substantial help. Thank you.

You've not seen me in an "excited" state. Consult with morons like Yoyo if you care to know what I'm like when I become agitated.

 

So, on the one hand we have a holy Bible, practically insisting that Jesus (either already dead or still alive) was hanged on a tree for the entire day, after which day Mary et al removed him from the tree and buried, all in full accordance to the Jewish law. 3 statements made by Evangelist Luke, support comes from peter and Paul, not saying about Deutoronomy.

So you have the biblical texts stating that a "jesus" was placed upon a tree-like object of some sort. That Joseph of Aramathea (and perhaps Nicodemus) and not Mary removed the body, with the permission of Pilate, is of no concern. That other references indicate a "stake" (as I made reference to as well) should tell you something about this etymology game. Are we now talking about being impaled? Are all so-called crucifixions now to be thought of as impalements? That seems extreme and unwarranted.

 

On another hand we have a shy flock of the believers, accidentally found exactly at the thrilling moment when they were trying to brainwash the other respected forumers into them direct following the same holy-schmoly inerrant Bible. And these believers occur to be completely insolvent, when it comes to a simple question - if the Bible indeed contain a set of passages offered for consideration. Squeezed are their lips, and their bodies are in tremors, for they foresee the Anger and Curse of God for them either agreeing with the Biblical lie or denying it. How many times is it allowed to betray in Christianity? I think Peter was allowed 3 times before the rooster...

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. I only saw one "believer" participate in this thread...and he's barely functioning mentally so I could care less about him. The others are asking legitimate questions and actually have a great deal of knowledge to share if you'd allow them.

 

I think we're all curious what the basis of this hypothesis truly is and why you feel that you don't need to support it beyond simple assertions. You've given us nothing to work with and scoffed at pretty much everything that has been said or asked. You don't wish to have your own idea to be falsifiable it seems and that is usually the foundation of a flawed work.

 

mwc

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Guest marabod
Look... you... boy or girl... keep breathing, mate. The FACTS were presented, but you chose to wipe your dirty ...white virgin female Donkey... with those pages of the Bible which have these facts on them. Follower, my donkey! If I was Jesus and saw such a follower, I would've asked my Daddy to whack you with a lightning bolt, and generously season with fire and brimstone. I am a bloody Son of Lord God, whom the bastards hanged on a tree - and you call yourself my follower and walk around singing stupid hymns and insisting I was crucified! Go get an ice-cream, pal.

 

Are you high?

 

Huh! Sorry, Phanta - I really could not get at once why did you ask. This is just my style like that, sorry, obviously you had no chance to get used to it. I do not like long and exhausting well-substantiated scientifically-sounding messages - life passes by while you read them to the end. So, I prefer dynamic role-playing statements, pretending to be from the main hero or narrator of the abstract play. In the deep past I was a satiric political journalist, and nearly got to jail for this (but the communism was still ruined as a result, so I won!). I like the theatre in all its forms, including as a comedy or a vaudeville. Sometimes I forget, that I am in a forum, full of the Americans, who do not regularly go to the theatres - sorry about that. :)

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MWC, I strongly suggest you to calm down. I certainly never had an opportunity to see you "in excited state", so please give me a buzz when the tickets are on sale already. You at the moment look as a heavy-weight boxer, who has recovered from knock-down 15 minutes too late and tries to understand why there is no people around the ring.

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MWC, I strongly suggest you to calm down. I certainly never had an opportunity to see you "in excited state", so please give me a buzz when the tickets are on sale already. You at the moment look as a heavy-weight boxer, who has recovered from knock-down 15 minutes too late and tries to understand why there is no people around the ring.

I see. So your entire argument is that you never had an argument and it's now best to move along? Very well.

 

mwc

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MWC, I strongly suggest you to calm down. I certainly never had an opportunity to see you "in excited state", so please give me a buzz when the tickets are on sale already. You at the moment look as a heavy-weight boxer, who has recovered from knock-down 15 minutes too late and tries to understand why there is no people around the ring.

I see. So your entire argument is that you never had an argument and it's now best to move along? Very well.

 

mwc

 

I only QUOTED THE BIBLE.

 

Something tells me you need to proceed to Rants and Replies. Or, better, simply get a good man and devote your life to the children. Bless you, daughter.

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I only QUOTED THE BIBLE.

I'm sorry, anyone who reads this thread will be able to clearly see that you're now lying. This not the "only" thing that you did. Among other things you made this statement to Yoyo:

I am not suggesting this, I KNOW this - and was only surprised that they left Acts unattended. missed them. This happened in AD 354 on Nicene Congress, which scrapped 80% of available Gospels and innumerate amount of their variations, used by early sects. Those manuscripts made canonical made up a book, known now as New Testament, others were defined as apocrypha and burned.

This is pretty much the sum total of your argument. You go into it a bit further in that same post but this is the "crux" (eh, who doesn't love a pun?) of the matter.

 

It's at this point I'm going to need a little, lets just agree to call it "evidence," to back up this bit of assertion. After all you "KNOW" it. Should be easy, right? Apparently not. Though it is easy to dismiss everyone else as if they don't know it while not providing anything to further your positive claim made here. Many things happened in relation to the various councils but we are, of course, talking to what took place with relation to your assertion(s) here.

 

Now you've claimed to have "only" and I want to get this right "QUOTED THE BIBLE." Well, you sir, are a liar.

 

Should we restart or do you wish to continue?

 

mwc

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When I first read this thread, I thought we had a real lunatic on our hands. But Marabod is acting like a lunatic on purpose. I'll let him speak for himself:

 

You are trying to evaluate God from a standard human perception of morality, as existing today in most of developed countries. As a result Caleb praises God as great and perfect, and you on the contrary insisting God being evil and immoral. BOTH your positions suggest that God EXIST - but this God is nice to Caleb and not nice to those listed in your examples.

 

But the reality is that there is no God which someone can point at as "existing" in our world, so what is the sense in criticising a non-existent entity? Before God becomes Bad Dude, it must first be found existing, which is not the case at all

 

and

 

Biblical God - who's that? Ahhh - this is just a personal god of Abraham, later accepted by Sarah and her son's children... Where in the Bible it actually says that god of Abraham was a Creator of the Universe? Ohhh... Crap... that was my next question for the Christians... And I wasted in on you! A silly woose!!!

 

Nevertheless, lyrics aside - there is no proof that what they call "God" is actually sitting on a cloud and watching into our toilets. It is hardly wise, in the ansense of such proof to discuss the virtual qualities of this virtual deity. Sorry, on this I just base on myself and my own mentality. Say, someone decides to discuss with me how large the spaghetti monster actually is, or what sort of tablets Santa takes against Xmas hangover... I would not start with guessing the monstrous dimensions or insisting on aspirin for the Santa case, I would first thing say - show them to me. Same relates to what is called God. Can you see? One thing at a time. First we establish there is such thing as God - and THEN only we would discuss its properties. I dont give a smack good God is or bad, unless I actually see and touch what we discuss. I want my little fingers in the wounds - as I do not feel any more stupid than Apostle Thomas was. Before that excuse mois?

 

Could be you've all seen this already, in which case I'd be stating the obvious - but I'm hoping that if I state it we can put this deranged thread out of its misery.

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Guest marabod

When you know me a bit better, Phanta, you would see that what you think is "fancying" is only a method to reduce the volume of the message. People do not like long posts, I myself seldom read them. And certainly I don't like to make them as this is time-consuming, and we are not in an academy here. But it really does not matter what you think of me, I hope you would agree.

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When you know me a bit better, Phanta, you would see that what you think is "fancying" is only a method to reduce the volume of the message.

 

It fails.

 

People do not like long posts, I myself seldom read them. And certainly I don't like to make them as this is time-consuming, and we are not in an academy here.

 

You do not enjoy reading long posts, so no one else does.

 

But it really does not matter what you think of me, I hope you would agree.

 

I accept the statement. I can't affirm it without further information.

 

Phanta

 

Could you please explain how come a few dozen of my posts in this forum could make you not only to know me so well, but also dislike me so strongly? Did I touch some hidden sensitive strings of your soul? Or this your strange criticism of "something" in me is caused by a thoroughly concealed inferiority complex? If you like we can do it together - use Freud and Young and analyse what in your soul occurred to be so resonating with some features of my personality which, you presume, were received by you from my short messages. OK? Then just relax, and try describing (with no explanations of your own) what exactly you feel when reading my posts. Count till 50 and then start thinking. I am waiting.

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I apologize for my rude posts.

 

Phanta

 

No worries, girl, all forgotten. I did not actually find them rude at all, I found them ... slightly bizarre :)

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Look... you... boy or girl... keep breathing, mate. The FACTS were presented, but you chose to wipe your dirty ...white virgin female Donkey... with those pages of the Bible which have these facts on them. Follower, my donkey! If I was Jesus and saw such a follower, I would've asked my Daddy to whack you with a lightning bolt, and generously season with fire and brimstone. I am a bloody Son of Lord God, whom the bastards hanged on a tree - and you call yourself my follower and walk around singing stupid hymns and insisting I was crucified! Go get an ice-cream, pal.

 

Are you high?

 

Huh! Sorry, Phanta - I really could not get at once why did you ask. This is just my style like that, sorry, obviously you had no chance to get used to it. I do not like long and exhausting well-substantiated scientifically-sounding messages - life passes by while you read them to the end. So, I prefer dynamic role-playing statements, pretending to be from the main hero or narrator of the abstract play. In the deep past I was a satiric political journalist, and nearly got to jail for this (but the communism was still ruined as a result, so I won!). I like the theatre in all its forms, including as a comedy or a vaudeville. Sometimes I forget, that I am in a forum, full of the Americans, who do not regularly go to the theatres - sorry about that. :)

 

 

ha ha ha ha some of your posts could be interpreted as you are high, I never looked at them like that ..... :lmao:

 

I have always equated your posts with the humor of Opera though...

 

:grin:

 

I wuv you marabear...

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ha ha ha ha some of your posts could be interpreted as you are high, I never looked at them like that ..... :lmao:

 

I have always equated your posts with the humor of Opera though...

 

:grin:

 

I wuv you marabear...

 

:wub: Really? I have to catch one such moment and try learning to do this on purpose :scratch: next time please poke me when you notice this.

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Could you please explain how come a few dozen of my posts in this forum could make you not only to know me so well, but also dislike me so strongly? Did I touch some hidden sensitive strings of your soul? Or this your strange criticism of "something" in me is caused by a thoroughly concealed inferiority complex?

Self-projecting much?
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Guest marabod

 

Could you please explain how come a few dozen of my posts in this forum could make you not only to know me so well, but also dislike me so strongly? Did I touch some hidden sensitive strings of your soul? Or this your strange criticism of "something" in me is caused by a thoroughly concealed inferiority complex?

Self-projecting much?

 

I can notice your interest to psychology. We probably share it. But what is that moving force behind your interest to the fine details about me? Say, you were obviously existing here through few thousand of post without any major worries, sorta like Eve in the gardens of Eden. Then - bang! - marabod entered the building and you obiously started to feel some irrational concern, a strange worry, an unusual discomfort and curiosity... What is it? A call of Nature? A fear for the own territorial safety? An irrational xenophobic desire to remove anything different from yourself? A curiosity which killed the cat? A protective instinct of a Mother? Care to clarify?

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More "pithy" remarks and not one spec of evidence presented for this hypothesis.

 

mwc

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