God will come threw to you all

[Guest Thegoodbook]

I have a friend to told me abou this site, I happen to read some posts here. I found one to be very ignorant.

 

Quote:

"After Jesus Christ we have no need of speculation, after the Gospels we have no need of research. When we come to believe, we have no desire to believe anything else; for we begin by believing that there is nothing else with which we have to believe.... My first principle is this. Christ laid down one definite system of truth which the world must believe without qualification." *1

 

"I believe because it is impossible." *2

 

Church Father Tertullian (160-220?)

 

 

 

After reading the Bible, many people are mystified as to why grown, otherwise intelligent adults would believe that it is the direct communication or the "inspired Word" of an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-good being. To many people, it seems absolutely incredible that any reasonable person could maintain this belief in the face of our current scientific knowledge and the contemporary understanding of history, religion and mythology. To outsiders, the phenomenon of Christian belief is a puzzlement.

 

However, after a bit of research and reflection, the mystery is resolved. It soon becomes apparent that the whole bizarre Christian belief system is predicated, to a large degree, on two compelling ideas. The first idea is that maintaining faith in Bible claims is the most morally virtuous act one can perform and will be rewarded with an eternal life of bliss. The second belief is that doubting biblical claims represents the greatest evil imaginable and will be punished with an eternity of torture. These linchpin beliefs make it possible for Christians to accept thoroughly ridiculous biblical assertions not merely in the absence of evidence, but against the evidence-against reason.

 

The sanctification of "faith" and demonization of doubt short-circuits the thinking process. Since it is continually drilled into Christians' brains that faith must be maintained at all costs, anything which contradicts a Bible claim is automatically rationalized away as the arrogance of the "wise," as a ploy of Satan, or as a test of faith from God himself. So when it is explained and demonstrated to a Christian that the Bible is simply a collection of ancient writings masquerading as the "Word of God," this is dismissed as the delusion of unbelievers blinded by their sin. When scientific discoveries are shown to clearly, directly and unambiguously contradict biblical pronouncements, these scientific discoveries are interpreted by the Christian as satanic trickery. If it is patiently and painstakingly evinced to the Christian that the Bible is filled from one end to the other with obscene cruelty and violence, pagan mythology and superstition, blatant contradictions, ludicrous claims and out and out stupidity, the Christian smiles in the face of this, confident that his faith is being tested by God, and that he will be rewarded accordingly in the Age To Come.

 

It must be understood that in the Alice-in-Wonderland Christian world view, the more difficult it is to believe in a biblical claim, the more one is glorified for believing it. Faith, believing no matter what the facts say, is the highest manifestation of moral righteousness. Developing and maintaining one's faith in the preposterous and the incomprehensible becomes the ultimate purpose of life. Tertullian's declaration, "I believe because it is impossible," is the boast of a man who celebrates his irrationality. While liberal Christians today may pay lip service to the notion of a reasonable faith, the sentiment of Tertullin's inane "I believe because it is impossible" is alive and well and continues to be spouted from church pulpits every Sunday morning: "Brethren, did not Paul say that God will make foolish the wisdom of the world, and choose that which is foolish to shame the wise of the world? Brothers and Sisters, did not JEEEZ-ZUSS tell us that unless we become as little children we will never enter the kingdom of heaven, that God has chosen to hide his light from the eyes of the wise and reveal himself to babes?" Reason and knowledge are ridiculed while biblical absurdities are held aloft as bless-ed revelation. This is how Christianity sustains itself. It is the only way that it can.

 

Thus the Christian faith's invisible attributes are now clearly to be seen. Behind all the sacraments and the rituals, the organ music and the angelic choirs, the praying lips and the arms thrust heavenward, the echoing preachments and the soaring cathedrals, behind all this, propping it all up, is the monstrous doctrine that gullibility and ignorance are divine. It is what makes everything else in the religion possible, be it a three-equals-one god, a talking jackass, a worldwide flood, water-walking, resurrections or, even, weekly church collections.

 

Please don't try to explain all this to a Christian though, for it has been most assuredly foretold that he would be mocked and persecuted for Jesus' sake by the wise of a fallen, perishing world. Yea, lo, verily, for it has been written...

 

 

This is probably one of the more ignorant posts I've ever seen.

 

You see, there is nothing like taking one single quotation out of context, and use it for a sweeping condemnation of a broad and diverse group of people.

 

To explain Tertullian to you, his entire point in his writings is that faith cannot be fully explained by reason. Then again, that is the definition of faith. Tertullian is not making a sweeping condemnation of reason or logic.

 

So, you say that Christianity finds that "guillibility and ignorance are divine." You see, at the very least, in the Catholic tradition, things such as reason and logic are a very core part of the religion. Thats why the Church found itself as a steward of knowledge during the Dark Ages. Thats why monks copied books by hand instead of letting the knowledge contained in them fall by the wayside. Philosophy is one of the things that has been deeply entrenched in the Catholic tradition, and if anyone reading this has ever had any real exposure to philosophy, you will know that it is the field of applying logic to solve hard and dangerous problems. Hard because the answers do not come easy, and dangerous because you may not like the results. Some of the best philosophers are those in the Catholic tradition. And mind you, this is something that is acknowledged by theists and atheists alike. So if you say that ignorance is the cornerstone of Christianity, go ahead. You'll just look like an idiot.

 

Nothing like an ignorant opinion shouted out from the soapbox that is the internet. You see, I know that I will never convince you that God exists because you are not open to that. I'm just throwing this little bit of truth out onto the internet so anyone that stumbles on this thread isnt dragged down by your misinformed opinion.

[☆ TexasFreethinker ☆]

You see, I know that I will never convince you that God exists because you are not open to that.

Funny, but I was thinking something similar of you. You'll never be convinced that there is no god because you are not open to that.

 

Actually, what I was really thinking is that you're just another drive-by christian who thinks they know us without bothering to take the time to get to know us and why we think what we think. If that's how you are then you're not wanted around here and your posts will be ridiculed or ignored.

 

********

 

Oh, and for the short time you are here, please take some time to spell properly. Hint #1: It's "through", not "threw".

[Checkmate]

And so, we hear again from a hit-and-run ad hominem attacker from the Xian front. Thanks for your "wisdom", asswipe. I'll be certain to file your ideas in the appropriate toilet. Bu-bye!

[Guest Thegoodbook]

And so, we hear again from a hit-and-run ad hominem attacker from the Xian front.  Thanks for your "wisdom", asswipe.  I'll be certain to file your ideas in the appropriate toilet.  Bu-bye!   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Can't even debunk my post b/c you know its true

[☆ TexasFreethinker ☆]

Can't even debunk my post b/c you know its true

Actually, won't even take the time to read your entire post. As I mentioned in my earlier response to you - you've come about this entirely wrong and people will not be taking you seriously because of your attitude problem.

 

You've come into our community and acted like a very rude visitor. We are people, not hell fodder, and if you want to have a real discussion with us you'll have to learn some manners. An apology would be a good start.

[Checkmate]

I have a friend to told me abou this site, I happen to read some posts here. I found one to be very ignorant.

Your friend must have been prophecying about YOU, dickweed! What is it with you Christians and the written word? Non-spelling, IGNORANT fuckwads.

[Ouroboros]

I have a friend to told me abou this site, I happen to read some posts here. I found one to be very  ignorant.

This is probably one of the more ignorant posts I've ever seen.

Back at ya'

 

You see, there is nothing like taking one single quotation out of context, and use it for a sweeping condemnation of a broad and diverse group of people.

Every Christian does it all the time, and Churches are built on fragmented quotations from the Bible.

 

To explain Tertullian to you, his entire point in his writings is that faith cannot be fully explained by reason. Then again, that is the definition of faith. Tertullian is not making a sweeping condemnation of reason or logic.

 

So, you say that Christianity finds that "guillibility and ignorance are divine." You see, at the very least, in the Catholic tradition, things such as reason and logic are a very core part of the religion.

 

Thats why the Church found itself as a steward of knowledge during the Dark Ages.

And killed anyone that opposed the established "knowledge". The Earth was flat, and that was the truth, and damn you if you refuted that! You'd be killed in an instance. Nice steward.

 

Thats why monks copied books by hand instead of letting the knowledge contained in them fall by the wayside.

By hand, as opposed to what? Photo Copier?

 

Philosophy is one of the things that has been deeply entrenched in the Catholic tradition, and if anyone reading this has ever had any real exposure to philosophy, you will know that it is the field of applying logic to solve hard and dangerous problems.

Yes, the Catholic Church was full of philosophers, and studied it hard and to length. So did the Greeks before them. But the logic failed sometimes in the Catholic philosophers, and you should know that if you have studied modern philosophy. Many arguments from the "dark ages" and before that, have been debated and refuted times over. Don't read philosophy between 400 CE and 1500 CE, expand your view a little bit to include philosophers before and after.

 

Hard because the answers do not come easy, and dangerous because you may not like the results. Some of the best philosophers are those in the Catholic tradition.

You're scaring me. "Best philosophers" in Catholic tradition. Some good ones were there, but many extremely good came after.

 

And mind you, this is something that is acknowledged by theists and atheists alike.

Eh? You know what, then I can say: Hume, Popper, Kant, Kierkegaard, Dawkins et.al. have been acknowledged by theists and atheists alike... does it feel better now?

 

So if you say that ignorance is the cornerstone of Christianity, go ahead. You'll just look like an idiot.

I know, Pat Robertson want to assasinate Venezuelas people elected President because he want to stop the oil export to USA. Such a good and intelligent Christian Pat is, don't you think? You're the idiot that dare to support Pat Robertson!!!

 

Nothing like an ignorant opinion shouted out from the soapbox that is the internet. You see, I know that I will never convince you that God exists because you are not open to that. I'm just throwing this little bit of truth out onto the internet so anyone that stumbles on this thread isnt dragged down by your misinformed opinion.

We were Christians, so we have been on YOUR side and seen it. You have only been on one side, and only read approved religious books. Your view of the world is skewed and distorted. I feel pity for you!

[Guest Thegoodbook]

Actually, won't even take the time to read your entire post.  As I mentioned in my earlier response to you - you've come about this entirely wrong and people will not be taking you seriously because of your attitude problem.

 

You've come into our community and acted like a very rude visitor.  We are people, not hell fodder, and if you want to have a real discussion with us you'll have to learn some manners.  An apology would be a good start.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Ok fair enough, I'm sorry for my outburst, BUT can you even logically refute my response to post I quoted??

[Amethyst]

He will come "threw" to us? What kind of ball will he throw?

 

[Ouroboros]

Can't even debunk my post b/c you know its true

Debunk your post?! What the heck do you mean? There's nothing in your post of value, and nothing has any evidentiary support or logical constructs, and you want us to debunk it!?

 

Okay, here's the debunk for you: Will it do?

[Java]

OOH! An intellectual!

 

Please do the Easter Challenge! Or should we suggest the False Messiah problems? So much to do, so little time...

[Ouroboros]

He will come "threw" to us?  What kind of ball will he throw?

 

His head?

[Ouroboros]

Okay, here's a serious look to debunk your post:

I have a friend to told me abou this site, I happen to read some posts here. I found one to be very  ignorant.

Emotional argument.

 

This is probably one of the more ignorant posts I've ever seen.

Emotional argument.

 

You see, there is nothing like taking one single quotation out of context, and use it for a sweeping condemnation of a broad and diverse group of people.

Agree. And it's done all the time by your kind, more than anyone.

 

To explain Tertullian to you, his entire point in his writings is that faith cannot be fully explained by reason.

Agree.

 

Then again, that is the definition of faith.

Huh? I don't agree to that statement.

 

You're saying the definition of Faith is "it cannot be fully explained by reason"?

 

Tertullian is not making a sweeping condemnation of reason or logic.

You're wrong.

 

But yet he says: "After Jesus Christ we have no need of speculation, after the Gospels we have no need of research. When we come to believe, we have no desire to believe anything else; for we begin by believing that there is nothing else with which we have to believe.... My first principle is this. Christ laid down one definite system of truth which the world must believe without qualification."

 

Speculation, Research and Qualification are core components of logic, reason and science. And Tertullian makes a sweeping and strong point that these components should not be followed anymore.

 

 

So, you say that ... cut out to save space on server ... misinformed opinion.

Only a bunch of unfounded statements, my opinion is the opposite, so prove me wrong.

[☆ TexasFreethinker ☆]

Ok fair enough, I'm sorry for my outburst, BUT can you even logically refute my response to post I quoted??

Thanks for the apology. It is appreciated.

 

As for "debunking" your response, I'd like to start with something that seems to be the core of the quote you were responding to...

 

The whole bizarre Christian belief system is predicated, to a large degree, on two compelling ideas. The first idea is that maintaining faith in Bible claims is the most morally virtuous act one can perform and will be rewarded with an eternal life of bliss. The second belief is that doubting biblical claims represents the greatest evil imaginable and will be punished with an eternity of torture. These linchpin beliefs make it possible for Christians to accept thoroughly ridiculous biblical assertions not merely in the absence of evidence, but against the evidence-against reason.

 

Do you agree or disagree with these statements? In particular, the ones about the most morally virtuous act one can perform and be rewarded for is faith in Bible claims, and the greatest evil (punishable with eternity of torture) is disbelieving biblical claims?

[Java]

"After Jesus Christ we have no need of speculation, after the Gospels we have no need of research. When we come to believe, we have no desire to believe anything else; for we begin by believing that there is nothing else with which we have to believe.... My first principle is this. Christ laid down one definite system of truth which the world must believe without qualification." *1

 

"I believe because it is impossible." *2

 

Church Father Tertullian (160-220?)

 

You see, there is nothing like taking one single quotation out of context, and use it for a sweeping condemnation of a broad and diverse group of people.

 

In spirit, I agree. But some things hold their own context.

 

To explain Tertullian to you, his entire point in his writings is that faith cannot be fully explained by reason. Then again, that is the definition of faith. Tertullian is not making a sweeping condemnation of reason or logic.

 

Okay, all hunky dory... except he's also saying that EVERYONE must believe what he believes without proof. Or else we all go to Hell. Please tell me you understand why this is flawed. Here's an example: BELIEVE IN THE CUCUMBER GOD WHO CREATED US OR FREZE IN HELL FOREVER! Without any more proof, and that's it. Uhm, what?

 

So, you say that Christianity finds that "guillibility and ignorance are divine." You see, at the very least, in the Catholic tradition, things such as reason and logic are a very core part of the religion.

 

Mkay, so how do you explain the two incorrect geneologys of Jesus? Any logical person reading that would notice there's a bunch of errors in it. I would postulate that reason and logic survive outside the core of the religion, allowed existance only when they do not directly oppose the mythology.

 

Thats why the Church found itself as a steward of knowledge during the Dark Ages. Thats why monks copied books by hand instead of letting the knowledge contained in them fall by the wayside.

 

Again, copying books which do not directly cross Church teachings.

 

Philosophy is one of the things that has been deeply entrenched in the Catholic tradition, and if anyone reading this has ever had any real exposure to philosophy, you will know that it is the field of applying logic to solve hard and dangerous problems. Hard because the answers do not come easy, and dangerous because you may not like the results. Some of the best philosophers are those in the Catholic tradition. And mind you, this is something that is acknowledged by theists and atheists alike. So if you say that ignorance is the cornerstone of Christianity, go ahead. You'll just look like an idiot.

 

Ignorance is the cornerstone of Christianity, but against the will of the church some highly intellectual and intelligent people have come out of that structure.

 

Nothing like an ignorant opinion shouted out from the soapbox that is the internet.

 

Kindly STFU with the ad hominems, kthxbai.

 

You see, I know that I will never convince you that God exists because you are not open to that. I'm just throwing this little bit of truth out onto the internet so anyone that stumbles on this thread isnt dragged down by your misinformed opinion.

 

Wow... that comment is pure elitism, and also a cheap way out.

[Pariah]

You see, I know that I will never convince you that God exists because you are not open to that.

 

How's that for "a sweeping condemnation of a broad and diverse group of people "?

[Amethyst]

Sigh. Not everyone here is an atheist. Please don't make broad-based assumptions. I'm perfectly open to the idea of a god existing, I just want factual evidence. If there is a god, that doesn't mean it's the Christian one.

 

How do you know that either Zeus, Allah, Buddha, Athena, Isis, or Brigid isn't the Real True God/dess? The only reason you believe in the Christian one is probably because you were raised that way. And even if you weren't, you live in a culture that is dominated by Christian cultists, so it makes sense that you would choose that cult over any others.

[Ouroboros]

How's that for "a sweeping condemnation of a broad and diverse group of people "?

Ah! But Christians got the special "sweeping condemnation" free card from Gawd himself, so they can do it, but we're not allowed to.

[Ouroboros]

To explain Tertullian to you, his entire point in his writings is that faith cannot be fully explained by reason. Then again, that is the definition of faith. Tertullian is not making a sweeping condemnation of reason or logic.

Show some quotes from Tertullian to support your claim here. And remember what you said:

You see, there is nothing like taking one single quotation out of context, and use it for a sweeping condemnation of a broad and diverse group of people.

So don't make small, single quotation out of context, but give us the broad spectrum of quotes to prove that Tertullian was open minded and rational.

[Guest Thegoodbook]

Why do you guys spend so much time trying to disprove Christianity? Were you attacked by a group of roving Methodists? Did a Lutheran motorcycle gang run you off the road? Were you kidnapped by Catholic terrorists and held for ransom? Did a Presbyterian drop a casserole on your foot?

[Checkmate]

Ok fair enough, I'm sorry for my outburst, BUT can you even logically refute my response to post I quoted??

"Apology accepted, Captain Needa." NOT!

 

I'm sorry, folks. But this "apology" is much too trite for me to swallow.

 

Thegoodbook smashes into Dave's house, breaks furniture, insults the other guests, takes a shit on the carpet...and now he expects to be excused with a simple "I'm sorry"?

 

Fuck that for a lark! You just don't do GREAT damage and then shine it on with a wave of your non-chalant hand and then expect everyone to forget about it. Everyone else may forgive you, but I'm not that accepting.

 

If you can take time to break in here and rant and rave, then you've got time enough to craft a LETTER of apology, outlining PRECISELY what it is you're so "sorry" for.

 

And until I see such an act of CONTRITION and REPENTANCE, I will continue to treat you and your posts with the requisite scorn and derision they so richly deserve.

 

In closing, to you "Thegoodbook", FUCK OFF AND DIE.

 

Sincerely, The Grinch

[☆ TexasFreethinker ☆]

Why do you guys spend so much time trying to disprove Christianity? Were you attacked by a group of roving Methodists? Did a Lutheran motorcycle gang run you off the road? Were you kidnapped by Catholic terrorists and held for ransom? Did a Presbyterian drop a casserole on your foot?

Christianity is a lie. A lie that has many people we love in its grip. A lie that tells humans that they are so awful by nature that they deserve to be tortured for eternity.

 

Christianity is a threat. A threat to our liberty and freedoms. It is an affront to reason because it claims that reason is second to faith.

 

In fact, I was captured and held captive by a band of Southern Baptists for more than 30 years, and I'd like to help others escape.

[white_raven23]

Why do you guys spend so much time trying to disprove Christianity? Were you attacked by a group of roving Methodists? Did a Lutheran motorcycle gang run you off the road? Were you kidnapped by Catholic terrorists and held for ransom? Did a Presbyterian drop a casserole on your foot?

 

It's not individual people we "blame". It's the religion itself. A distinction a lot of you new christian members don't bother to realize. It's easy to make sweeping generalizations when you haven't read up. There is a lot of material on this site.

 

Read up. Then come talk.

[Amethyst]

Why do you guys spend so much time trying to disprove Christianity?

 

Because it's a cult, and it can be dangerous. We have seen that in the Crusades, we've seen it in the lynch-mob mentality of the homophobic types who go around beating up/killing gay folks, and we've seen it in people like Eric Robert Rudolph. Christianity in its most extreme forms encourages hate and murder. Yes, it can be harmless and even used for good purposes like any other tool, but I'd rather that people wise up and see it for what it is -- just another cult.

[Pariah]

Ah! But Christians got the special "sweeping condemnation" free card from Gawd himself, so they can do it, but we're not allowed to.

 

 

Why do you guys spend so much time trying to disprove Christianity? Were you attacked by a group of roving Methodists? Did a Lutheran motorcycle gang run you off the road? Were you kidnapped by Catholic terrorists and held for ransom? Did a Presbyterian drop a casserole on your foot?

 

First you come in here saying "Can you even logically refute my response to post I quoted??" and "Can't even debunk my post b/c you know its true". Then when people do debunk your post you don't respond but instead change the subject to inane ridicule. How typical of a brain-washed fundy.