God will come threw to you all

[Alice]

I think there are christians who come here because they are genuinely interested in knowing why we left christianity, and/or because they have doubts of their own that they don't feel comfortable discussing on christian boards.

 

I don't want to "pin their ears back", but I do want to be available for them if and when they want to ask questions.

 

Bad behavior on their part isn't excusable, but it is somewhat understandable when you consider that we're threatening something that is at the core of their being.  Many of them have never seriously considered that christianity could be wrong or a lie and it is shocking and very upsetting for them to encounter what we have to say.

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TF, I think you sound as if you are a hugely agreeable person ... and my conclusion is based in part on the fact that I usually agree with you!

[☆ TexasFreethinker ☆]

TF, I think you sound as if you are a hugely agreeable person ... and my conclusion is based in part on the fact that I usually agree with you!

You know what they say Hesitent, "Great minds..."

[white_raven23]

Don't they realize these "hit and run" posts they do actually support how we feel and where we stand.

 

How can we even begin to respect the point of view of people who run in the front door, sling sweeping generalization and condemnation right and left, and race out the back door and down the street without stopping.

 

It's cowardace. Pure and simple.

 

And it's so obvious than anyone (guests) just passing through and checking the view can see it. Those who've found themselves questioning will feel reinforced by the inability of these faith-mongerers to even try to stand their ground (hard to stand firm when you're running that damn fast!).

 

Although it would be more fun for these trolls to stick around and play, it proves a larger point to others that they don't (or can't).

[Amanda]

And the Catholics, they not only love the execution device as much as the Protestants, they aren't happy unless their is an ematiated figurine of their god nailed to it.  Pretty sick.

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Madame M and HanSolo, with all due respect to both of you, don't you think the cross is a symbol of appreciation for the 'supposed' sacrifice that Jesus made for us? Maybe it reminds people of their role model, through what extent of burdens he endured, and still maintained principles from which we can benefit and value, should we so choose. I don't think they are honoring an instrument of torture.

[Panther]

If you subtract the specific references to Christianity from your argument, your argument can be applied to all religions. So, everyone who has faith in something intangable is an idiot, right?

 

I appreciate you sharing your thoughts, but your position is founded on the logic that all Christians are the same. If your position were true, then every black person is the same. Every Muslum is the same, ect. This type of thinking simply isn't true, and which is why it is included as one of the falacies of logic.

 

The other problem with your statemets is that you are trying to use logic to prove something that is illogical -- faith. You don't prove faith, you choose to believe or not to believe.

 

What of the Christians who have a faith in God because of a real life experience; not some words in a book? I am a Christian, but my faith was not obtained through book nor preacher.

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Ok...I'll bite. What is your "real experience" that convinced you?

See, Christians do base a lot on emotions.

 

Just for your own info, we DO have some christians on this site that we are GLAD to have here and this is their HOME along with us.

 

We don't treat ALL christians rudely, just the ones that do not deserve respect. Those would be the ones that drive by and drop off rude remarks without even getting to know us or our experiences.

 

There are tons and tons of testimonies here and they clearly spell out the damage that has been done.

If you have any sincerely in you at all, you will read those and THEN let's see what you have to say.

[Antlerman]

Yes, I was hoping he'd stay around and actually talk with us.  Maybe he's got other things to do and he'll come back later - not everyone's as addicted to this site as some of us are!

Yeah it does kind of grow on you.

[Vixentrox]

God came through me! Then I realized it was just an after effect of some baked beans......

[Eponymic]

If you subtract the specific references to Christianity from your argument, your argument can be applied to all religions. So, everyone who has faith in something intangable is an idiot, right?

 

No. It's not saying anyone's an idiot, and you can't take the Christianity out because it's the widest spread religion. Yes, it does apply to any religion that claims it knows the facts about an afterlife that no one knows for sure about.

 

And, HELLO, did I not say in my post that it could apply to any religion? Quit overheating on emotional responses and read the post for what is really there.

 

I appreciate you sharing your thoughts, but your position is founded on the logic that all Christians are the same. If your position were true, then every black person is the same. Every Muslum is the same, ect. This type of thinking simply isn't true, and which is why it is included as one of the falacies of logic.

 

Hardly, you are making the supposition that I'm talking about the people within the religions, when my point is about the religions themselves.

 

The other problem with your statemets is that you are trying to use logic to prove something that is illogical -- faith. You don't prove faith, you choose to believe or not to believe.

 

And the problem with that is it's circular logic. Faith hereby becomes untenenable because you can't argue against it, doubt it, or saying anything about it because it's above all reason & logic. And I quote a friend on this, that's "poppycock."

 

Really is a good word for circular logic.

 

What of the Christians who have a faith in God because of a real life experience; not some words in a book? I am a Christian, but my faith was not obtained through book nor preacher.

 

It's still someone who is applying what happened to them and placing it into the context of Christianity. I don't know what specifically happened to you, or what you're basing your faith on, but if you dig deep enough I think you'll find that you made that link because of pre formed ideas regarding Christianity.

 

It's all just supposition because I don't know where you're coming from, so hopefully you won't be offended. I just think that there is a better reason for it.

[Cerise]

Well, there's only one thing to say to such a post...

 

 

 

[Panther]

It wasn't a hole, silly Merlin. 

 

It was a slot. 

 

Of course, this is a new practice, and yet another attempt by modern Catholicism to bring itself up to date.

 

During first communion, the priest cuts a small slot into the very top of the member’s head. Since this procedure is done by a Man of God, there is no blood loss whatsoever. After the incision is made, the priest inserts a communion wafer (see attached photo) directly into the slot. Then he grabs their left arm, raises it above their head, and places it back down along their side. After this, if the believer’s eyes roll back into their head, they have officially received the flesh of Jesus Christ. If the eyes don't roll, they have to go back to confession.

 

*EDIT* - They don't call these things communion wafers anymore. They call them Trinity Tokens.

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  *coffee all over keyboard now*

 

 

[Eponymic]

Well, there's only one thing to say to such a post...

 

Always best to quote who you're talking about. Cause right now it looks like you're saying that to me.

 

[Eponymic]

Madame M and HanSolo, with all due respect to both of you, don't you think the cross is a symbol of appreciation for the 'supposed' sacrifice that Jesus made for us? Maybe it reminds people of their role model, through what extent of burdens he endured, and still maintained principles from which we can benefit and value, should we so choose. I don't think they are honoring an instrument of torture. 

 

Actually I think the cross image was stolen from older relgious mythos and was reprocessed for use in the Christian faith.

[Panther]

Well, this is a busy thread!

 

Feels like someone stirred up a bee's nest or somethin....

[Cerise]

Always best to quote who you're talking about. Cause right now it looks like you're saying that to me.

 

 

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But did you really want me to repost the silliness of this?

 

This is probably one of the more ignorant posts I've ever seen.

 

You see, there is nothing like taking one single quotation out of context, and use it for a sweeping condemnation of a broad and diverse group of people.

 

To explain Tertullian to you, his entire point in his writings is that faith cannot be fully explained by reason. Then again, that is the definition of faith. Tertullian is not making a sweeping condemnation of reason or logic.

 

So, you say that Christianity finds that "guillibility and ignorance are divine." You see, at the very least, in the Catholic tradition, things such as reason and logic are a very core part of the religion. Thats why the Church found itself as a steward of knowledge during the Dark Ages. Thats why monks copied books by hand instead of letting the knowledge contained in them fall by the wayside. Philosophy is one of the things that has been deeply entrenched in the Catholic tradition, and if anyone reading this has ever had any real exposure to philosophy, you will know that it is the field of applying logic to solve hard and dangerous problems. Hard because the answers do not come easy, and dangerous because you may not like the results. Some of the best philosophers are those in the Catholic tradition. And mind you, this is something that is acknowledged by theists and atheists alike. So if you say that ignorance is the cornerstone of Christianity, go ahead. You'll just look like an idiot.

 

Nothing like an ignorant opinion shouted out from the soapbox that is the internet. You see, I know that I will never convince you that God exists because you are not open to that. I'm just throwing this little bit of truth out onto the internet so anyone that stumbles on this thread isnt dragged down by your misinformed opinion.

 

Well now that we're all mildly annoyed and/or offended...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[white_raven23]

Actually I think the cross image was stolen from older relgious mythos and was reprocessed for use in the Christian faith.

 

Not to mention the region Jesus supposedly died in, really didn't have lots of straight strong wood trees. Who is going to waste precious building material that has to be traded and shipped on making nice neat execution crosses for worthless criminals?

 

Just tie or nail the jerk to a knarled up tree (the kind that actuall grow there)instead.

[Eponymic]

But did you really want me to repost the silliness of this?

Well now that we're all mildly annoyed and/or offended...

 

 

Well, not the whole thing, just a tid bit of it would work.

 

And I'm offended at myself that I offended you.

[Cerise]

I'm not prepared to persue this line of enquiry any further as I think this is getting too silly.

 

Where's the Colonel?

[Ouroboros]

Madame M and HanSolo, with all due respect to both of you, don't you think the cross is a symbol of appreciation for the 'supposed' sacrifice that Jesus made for us? Maybe it reminds people of their role model, through what extent of burdens he endured, and still maintained principles from which we can benefit and value, should we so choose. I don't think they are honoring an instrument of torture. 

Of the same reason we don't chose guns and cannons as symbols for peace. The statue of liberty in NY is not a statue with nuclear bombs, swords and RPGs attached to it. I wonder why?

 

A good symbol should be in a positive direction, not pointing to the negative. If you focus your attention on the negative, you get pulled down rather than built up. A better symbol is the dove or Jesus standing without the cross, resurrected, rather than the murder weapon that was used to kill him. Don't you find it odd?

 

Let's say we would use the nuclear bombs we dropped over Hiroshima and Nagasaki, as the symbols for the new world order of peace we're establishing in Iraq and middle east. That's a fitting symbol.

 

Or let's use the airplanes that crashed into the towers as a symbol for our fight against terrorism.

 

I do see a problem using a weapon as the peace and reconciliation symbol.

[Amethyst]

Where's the Colonel?

 

In the bedroom with the candlestick, standing over Mr. Body.

 

 

 

[Checkmate]

We need symbols to rally around? Let's use "Superman" and his red "S". Now THERE'S a hero. Saved EVERYONE who needed saving. Never plays favorites. Performs miracles.

 

Much better than that 2,000 year old corpse from Galilee that some people keep harping about.

 

 

[Fweethawt]

  *coffee all over keyboard now*

 

Well I'm glad somebody caught that.

 

 

[Amanda]

HanSolo, you offer a different/compelling perspective I haven't considered. I had to take my dog for a walk and think about this one. (BTW, my dog thanks you.) It may take me awhile, for what you've said to sink into a complete revelation... so let me share with you my contentions at this point...

 

Let's say we would use the nuclear bombs we dropped over Hiroshima and Nagasaki, as the symbols for the new world order of peace we're establishing in Iraq and middle east. That's a fitting symbol.

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The analogy used here is quite different, IMO. 'Supposedly'... The cross was the ultimate tool of degradation AND death, used on an innocent hero, that through it demonstrated for us there is nothing we can't overcome. Compared with... We dropped our bombs on Hiroshima in retalliation, they surrendered, we regreted what we did and basically rebuilt their country, and it's something that has been held against us ever since.

Or let's use the airplanes that crashed into the towers as a symbol for our fight against terrorism.

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"IF" that incidence, and how we handle it, becomes the turning point which successfully establishes a new world wide cooperation to end terrorism, to genuinely unite as friends around the world, to end complacency against targeting innocent people in public places, and two bigger and better towers are resurrected in their place to honor the international community that embraced ending unethical practices to ALL the innocent, made the world a friendlier and safer environment... then would we JUST want to remember these two new buildings... or would we ALSO want to remember these two planes bombing two buildings on that scary day, to be reminding us just what we are capable of united in victoriously overcoming, and honor this memory for these causes that make it imperative to continue achieving stronger international alliances?

 

We can't change what the airplanes did, but we can change how we look at it, and what we let it represent to us as a nation/people. We can just say it knocked us down and don't think about it, or we can say it stirred ours and the world's emotions, rallied our causes against injustice, and called us to victoriously overcome their very best, collectively!

I do see a problem using a weapon as the peace and reconciliation symbol.

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What about fireworks on the fourth of July? What about these many forts we maintain in memory of our adversities to get here? How about the memorial of the bombed sunken ships in Pearl Harbor?

 

Excuse the pun... I might be playing the devil's advocate here to some degree. I would probably never buy a cross for me. I do have a cross necklace I received as a gift from a very dear family member... and I wear it often. It is wierd that I never remember even desiring to purchase such myself, and I really never thought about it till you mentioned it. I think that I might prefer a dove now that you suggested it. I still think it is definitely acceptable to hold the cross as representing what we can actually overcome... if one chooses to believe in all that.

[Ouroboros]

What about fireworks on the fourth of July? What about these many forts we maintain in memory of our adversities to get here? How about the memorial of the bombed sunken ships in Pearl Harbor? 

Well, the fireworks were invented to scare the demons away, and not to symbolize bombs. Bombs were invented from the fireworks. And they don't symbolize reconciliation and salvation, but are just something to force the devils to leave the crops alone.

 

Forts are maintained as historical buildings, and are not considered mystical or by God empowered symbols. They only are left to remind of us history. The cross is not (according to many historians) not even accurate to how it was done. It was more like a T. The cross was made as a holy symbol at a later date. And notice "Holy" symbol, not "Historical".

 

The memorial is the same thing, it doesn't symbolize a God you have to pray to or worship. Besides the memorial is not depicted with bombs or people blown to pieces, while the cross is the symbol of the torture equipment, and sometimes Jesus as on the cross too, hurting and in pain. It's nothing but a symbol of the pain and torture he suffered. Don't you agree a symbol should be something that represents when Jesus was resurrected instead of when he was in pain? I guess it all comes back to that the salvation came through Jesus suffering on the cross, not his death or resurrection. So some parts of the Bible then must be wrong, since the most important event was when Jesus was tortured, not when he died.

 

Excuse the pun... I might be playing the devil's advocate here to some degree. I would probably never buy a cross for me. I do have a cross necklace I received as a gift from a very dear family member... and I wear it often. It is wierd that I never remember even desiring to purchase such myself, and I really never thought about it till you mentioned it. I think that I might prefer a dove now that you suggested it.  I still think it is definitely acceptable to hold the cross as representing what we can actually overcome... if one chooses to believe in all that.   

Don't let me stop you from wearing the cross. This whole issue came up today, initiated by my brother. And I have never thougth of this before either!

 

I'm not so concerned with the symbols, since they're just symbols, and they can represent whatever you want. But it is kind of weird that the murder weapon was selected as the symbol... and not some symbol to show salvation... like the fish for instance.

[Panther]

Well I'm glad somebody caught that. 

 

 

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Caught it and loved it Fwee!! Keep 'em coming!

[Ouroboros]

MadamM, you have outdone yourself yet again! Extreme illustration, and so true.

 

I'm going to print what you wrote and put up on the wall and meditate on Jebuz being electrocuted for our sins, and how I have to electrocute my flesh too to be saved.