Tabula Rasa Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 I warned him twice that he'd better have some good arguments, that we've got some folks here who could very easily disprove even tough ones. He didn't listen. I'm done with being respectful to someone who doesn't listen to good advice. So without further ado... Heh,hehehe haha ehehehe.... BUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 came back out of morbid curiosity and it was confirmed. Self congratulatory smugness because a Christian left your little hallow. Please! I left because I got the answers I sought and didn't feel welcome in the least. Truth sometimes hurts, huh? Sorry we couldn't get an approving chorus of amens together for ya, but you got the kid-glove treatment this time. How are you going to carry the message to the world if you can't stomach a few non-xians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 You all actually believe how you talked to me was nice? Everything I said was dissected and challenged, and when I replied every fact I laid on the table was then again challenged and dissected. What you are saying here, correct me if I'm wrong, that being challenged is a way of being rude? In other words, to be nice to you is the same as to agree with everything you say and never challenge your view point? That's not niceness in my book, that's docile agreement. We didn't call you names or gave you the regular rant-treatment, but we only challenged you. Wow. You were challenged, for the first time in your life, and you go "wah-wah-wah, give me my mommy!" To be challenged is a privilege. If you take it correctly, you will grow. Only when you dismiss and refute challenges will you deteriorate into ignorance. The only reason things stayed relatively cool was because I bit my tongue and let it go after just responding to the larger issues. A few of you were absolutely nasty and disrespectful to both me and the God I worship and serve, but at the end of the day it's not why I am leaving. I didn't expect to be treated any different and was not at all surprised by either my treatment here or the self congratulatory reaction after I tried to step out and respect your space, and I wasn't shocked by any aspect of my experience here. It was exactly what I expected in regards to how people talked to me. Well, good for you then. A few of you were cordial at times, but you have to be on another planet to think that how a guest was treated by the old guard here was anything but rude. Or perhaps you think that that isn't rude and you all are okay with talking to people like that. If so you are welcome to your space and your world, I'm not interested in the least. Again, you state above that being challenged is to be rude. That's stupid. (Yes, that's another challenge for you!) I came back out of morbid curiosity and it was confirmed. Self congratulatory smugness because a Christian left your little hallow. Please! I left because I got the answers I sought and didn't feel welcome in the least. Whatever. The why are you posting again? If you knew it was going to happen, and it happened, and you really don't care, then why post about how much you don't care about it? If you don't care, then don't care. See you all on the other side Sure. When Allah sends you to Hell for dissing Islam, or when Moroni sends you to Hell for not believing in Joseph Smith and the gold tablets. Or perhaps we'll meet again when all the thetans left our bodies. Who knows? One thing is for sure, you won't grow unless you allow challenges in your life. And obviously, by your own words, you didn't come here to learn, but you came to just confirm your prejudice. And another thing, when I said "bummer" in my earlier post, it was because I thought it was a shame that you left already (quitter!), and you take that as some kind of "whoop-de-doo-dah he left, yahoo! Haha we won!" Then I think you need to tune your reading comprehension skills a tad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qadeshet Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 The Bible is a collection of myths and fables written by men. There is no evidence that the Gospel Jesus ever existed. When you supply us with unsupported "facts" you will be challenged. This isn't church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefriendlyghost Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Christians cornered the market in self congratulatory smugness. We can only aspire to be as smug as thee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 That was very well expressed, Han. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted November 12, 2009 Super Moderator Share Posted November 12, 2009 I had higher hopes for this one. Ask a question. Get responses to question. Challenge responses with oddball interpretation of Scripture. Discover from rebuttal the lost sheep actually have good reasons to disagree with me! Aaaaakkk! Thinking leads to atheism! (Smug motherfuckers) I'm outta here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 I came back out of morbid curiosity and it was confirmed. Self congratulatory smugness because a Christian left your little hallow. Please! I left because I got the answers I sought and didn't feel welcome in the least. See you all on the other side Where is the self-congratulatory smugness? Some of us said we were disappointed, is that smug? Overall we were very polite. I know I didn't call you any names. However, if you keep coming on here and making accusations, that might change. If you start a thread here, we assume you want to discuss things, not just use it as a platform for your own peculiar Biblical interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japedo Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Do you not realize that everyone can read for themselves this entire thread and see that your claims (Yet again) lack evidence to your accusations? I think you're giving a cop-out reason because you're outwitted, you know it and are attempting to save face by crying rudeness. You've only been taught to argue emotional reasons, never facts. You came here thinking we were all lost souls and god was going to somehow use you to win us back, never guessing in a million years you didn't know jack about the history of what you believe. You jumped in feet first not realizing how deep the ocean is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Where is the self-congratulatory smugness? Some of us said we were disappointed, is that smug? Overall we were very polite. I know I didn't call you any names. However, if you keep coming on here and making accusations, that might change. I don't think he really read any of the responses. He made a hasty generalization of the reasons why we left, and it was completely wrong. Instead his comments were more in accordance with pre-existing Christian prejudices, which to me show that he did really care what we said, he just wanted to construct his own confirmation of what he already believed. And he did it again, in this case, everyone show a sad look that he left, and he takes it as us being smug and pushing him out. He wanted to be victim, so he made himself one. If you start a thread here, we assume you want to discuss things, not just use it as a platform for your own peculiar Biblical interpretation. I think he just wanted to win a badge. Now he can go to the Christian forums and say, "I waz 2 dis antichrist sight & I wonn!!1 Cuz Im so kewl!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefriendlyghost Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Say, don't you get all sorts of cool crowns in Heaven for bein' persecuted by us unsaved folk? You should be THANKING us!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyone Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Wind Walker wrote:A few of you were absolutely nasty and disrespectful to both me and the God I worship and serve, but at the end of the day it's not why I am leaving. If we asked about Zeus, Marduk or Mohammed, I wouldn't have been surprised that you had no respect for these religious characters. Is it rude to be disrespectful of Santa? Maybe so, but I heard this really good joke... Well, maybe later. There are three possible responses to a challenge. The challenge can be truthful, deceitful or nonsense. It's hard work to respond in either direction. Sometimes you will find that even though you thought you had answered questions satisfactorily, others will be unsatisfied. You can either try to understand why your arguments are/were unconvincing or see the responder as in denial (if facts are clearly established). You choose to abandon the debate entirely. But then, maybe you really weren't up for a debate, and your curiosity is satisfied. One of the hardest things to do is see the world through another's eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdp Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 ...just, wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centauri Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 You all actually believe how you talked to me was nice? Everything I said was dissected and challenged, and when I replied every fact I laid on the table was then again challenged and dissected. The crux of the problem is right there in the word I put in bold font. You didn't reply with "facts", you simply assume they are facts because it appeals to your subjective interpretations of a book that cannot be validated as divine in the first place. The case of Daniel 9 is a good example of this. The Christian interpretation of Dan 9 and how it "proves" Jesus, has more holes in it than a Swiss cheese. Yet,it gets pumped and advertised as a stunning "fact". Ex-Christians get tired of being lied to about what is factual and what represents reality when it's nothing more than propaganda designed to expand a religion. In the secular world it's called false advertising. Reality isn't created by assertion, despite the best attempts of some Christians to do exactly that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdp Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 windwalker, if you're still monitoring this thread, take a step back and look at exactly what you did here. You were deceptive and I, as a human being, am hurt by that. I thought you were here in good faith and I responded in good faith. It does reflect on you and, by extension, your god. If you owe us nothing you do owe him a higher standard than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeygirl Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 What is wrong with challenging and dissecting ideas or beliefs? Sorry if you take that as being rude. Us disagreeing or presenting evidence that conflicts with your beliefs may make you uncomfortable, i know the feeling but I think your emotions are being misplaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagnarus Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 It's not our fault that all the reasons for Christianity you gave were wrong. Sure we could have not called you on it, we could have been all nice about how if you interpret all these things just right they line up with your world view, but the fact of the matter is that if we didn't challenge it's quite possible that there could be members and lurkers, who are just coming out of the maze of Christianity who could be taken in if we didn't call you on it. I'm sorry that you feel that you were disrespected. Perhaps we could have been more gentle in pointing out your errors, and some of us may very well have been disrespectful of you. But as it stands I think your problem was more, that you had actually convinced yourself that Genesis in some way agreed with science, that Daniel prophesied Christ, and that God was actually just. We forced you to examine your arguments, and this was just to uncomfortable for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhoof Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Since I'm sure you're still reading these responses: You all actually believe how you talked to me was nice? For the most part, yes. You knew what you were stepping into when you registered here. I'd seen you here for days, reading threads here before posting this. Everything I said was dissected and challenged, and when I replied every fact I laid on the table was then again challenged and dissected. This is called discourse and discussion. Learning where others stand in their thoughts and beliefs. In this case, it just happens that we see your beliefs as silly. The only reason things stayed relatively cool was because I bit my tongue and let it go after just responding to the larger issues. Meh. I'm not sure where others stand on this, but I've been called names before. Doesn't bother me a bit. This thread simply would have been moved to the Lion's Den. A few of you were absolutely nasty and disrespectful to both me and the God I worship and serve, but at the end of the day it's not why I am leaving. I didn't see any responses that were "absolutely nasty and disrespectful" to you. If you think some of the replies here were over the top, as you seem to imply, I would suggest you try to thicken your skin a little. That, or try to stay away from anything that might be slightly confrontational. As for the god you worship and serve however, you would have to supply some pretty compelling evidence of that god before it gets any different treatment from me. I see no difference between the god of the bible, Old Mother Hubbard and Little Red Riding Hood. I didn't expect to be treated any different and was not at all surprised by either my treatment here or the self congratulatory reaction after I tried to step out and respect your space, and I wasn't shocked by any aspect of my experience here. It was exactly what I expected in regards to how people talked to me. Plese see my response to your first quote (above). A few of you were cordial at times, but you have to be on another planet to think that how a guest was treated by the old guard here was anything but rude. Or perhaps you think that that isn't rude and you all are okay with talking to people like that. If so you are welcome to your space and your world, I'm not interested in the least. A thousand pardons! Forgive me please! Forgive! I didn't realize you were Royalty! Did you expect everyone here to fall on their knees and worship your every word as you doled out your pearls before swine? No. You didn't. So keep your condescention to yourself. You thought you could handle yourself among a few heathens and realized that you brought a pen knife to a gunfight. So the first thing you did was cut and run. Now stop crying and see that you just got your ass handed to you. I came back out of morbid curiosity and it was confirmed. Self congratulatory smugness because a Christian left your little hallow. Please! I left because I got the answers I sought and didn't feel welcome in the least. No, you came back trying to save face with your superiority complex and we saw right through it. See you all on the other side Other side of what? The block? Other side of town? Other side of what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MultifariousBirdLady Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 I wish you would stick around. By no means was my deconversion simple. That is a common misconception made by christians. I would never toss all my entire belief system out the door without a great deal of thought, time and research. Its been slowly in the works the last 8 or 9 years. I pushed my doubts aside most of the time but they just kept growing and growing and soon were too much to ignore. Unfortunately it took some big negative events to push the problems with my belief system to the forefront. I thought I was building my house on a rock, I was told my whole life that I was but when the shit hit the fan i realize my house was built on sand and everything came crumbling down. I was a christian for 22 years (from age 6) I bought into it completely growing up, my life was about Jesus. If you sense any bitterness and anger from us, its not at you, I'm sure just like me people are just bitter about the time they wasted, the lies they bought into and the foundation they had built there life on being utterly and completely absurd. I second a lot of this. The first part of my deconversion was also a very long, slow process (during which, if someone had asked, I would NOT have thought of myself as on my way out of Christianity). It was certainly not linear, either... more like I discovered one problem, then thought of a way the problem might be reconciled, then found two more, then ignored it all for a while, then couldn't ignore some pressing issue, and so on. Only around the time when I finally left for good did I start thinking maybe I shouldn't say I was still a Christian, and even there I hesitated. It was not a simple process at all, even though for the sake of brevity I might generalize the worst issues along the lines of "the beliefs were a mental straight-jacket." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MultifariousBirdLady Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 I'm wondering if it was my fault. I was the second reply to him, and I basically told him that if Yahweh was real, I'd rather go to hell than bow down to the lousy soul burning tyrant. Aside from that I warned him he'd better have some good arguments because the majority of the people who replied can debunk and discredit most of the usual arguments with ease. I don't think so, Tabula Rasa. You expressing your views about Yahweh is not an attack on Wind Walker. I don't think that warning someone they need to have good arguments that hold up to scrutiny is something that someone should take offense to. Well, maybe it wasn't worded in the softest manner, but it's still a fair warning, IMO, and people should expect that on a discussion forum like this anyway. Personally, I don't mind the expression of strong arguments. It can get tiring to have to couch every argument as if one is walking on eggshells. P.S. I ran a debate list for a while and had to regularly remind people not to take arguments against ideas personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 I'm wondering if it was my fault. Your fault? Hell no. He was a tenderfoot and a softie. He couldn't stand the thought that someone else had a different opinion than him. His supreme ego was hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 What the Bible is telling us here is that something amazing is happening. Chaos, erev is giving way to order, boker. Out of the chaotic ball of energy of the Big Bang Creation, orderly laws of nature and of life are about to arise. Six times over, we are told of this fantastic flow from erev to boker, fantastic because this never happens by chance in nature. Never! Order never, never arises spontaneously from a chaotic mix and remains orderly. Order in nature always decays to disorder. That is why mountains wash to the sea and leaves decay on the ground. Only if the world somehow recognizes the newly formed order and then maintains it does the order remain stable and not decay. The wisdom of the world, the Bible is telling us, recognized this flow from chaos to order and locked it in. The world had a purpose for having life and it was developing in that direction. I don't have much to say to this because of my weakness at science, but it is interesting to me. I am curious what the others have to say about this idea in particular. I don't see where he is getting the idea that there is a permanent order somewhere? Order is maintained for certain intervals and then decays or is destroyed only to be replaced by another order. Order and Chaos depend on each other. There is no "locked in" order anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 In my expierence, order/chaos are really just a matter of scale and perspective. Absolutely! Well, that's what I think too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Bummer. We lost this one in record time. And I think everyone was cordial and nice. He will go home, think things over, and then eventually de-convert too and come back here. You all actually believe how you talked to me was nice? Everything I said was dissected and challenged, and when I replied every fact I laid on the table was then again challenged and dissected. The only reason things stayed relatively cool was because I bit my tongue and let it go after just responding to the larger issues. A few of you were absolutely nasty and disrespectful to both me and the God I worship and serve, but at the end of the day it's not why I am leaving. I didn't expect to be treated any different and was not at all surprised by either my treatment here or the self congratulatory reaction after I tried to step out and respect your space, and I wasn't shocked by any aspect of my experience here. It was exactly what I expected in regards to how people talked to me. A few of you were cordial at times, but you have to be on another planet to think that how a guest was treated by the old guard here was anything but rude. Or perhaps you think that that isn't rude and you all are okay with talking to people like that. If so you are welcome to your space and your world, I'm not interested in the least. I came back out of morbid curiosity and it was confirmed. Self congratulatory smugness because a Christian left your little hallow. Please! I left because I got the answers I sought and didn't feel welcome in the least. See you all on the other side Oh please! Don't feel so special. We tear each other's arguments up all the time! It helps us understand ourselves. Get over yourself and come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 If it helps, we are like this with each other on controversial topics, too. This place is a real rough-and-tumble, no-holds-barred place no matter what your faith. I'd point out a couple of the threads, but I'd just as soon keep them blown over by not re-drawing attention. *chuckle* See, I'm conflict-avoidant. This place is soooo good for me. Very true. You can't swing a five-dollar-foot-long subway sandwich without hitting at least one conflict in progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts