How Do Atheist Deal With Death?

[Guest amazed]

Exactly.

The evidence does point to His resurrection though. I corinthians 15 is one we have looked at.

 

No, there's no 'evidence' for a resurrection. 1 Cor; he 'appeared to' Paul; Luke says in Acts that it was a vision, nobody else saw it. Or was Luke wrong? Acts 26:19 Paul himself tells Agrippa it was a 'heavenly vision.'

What about Acts 9:7 where it says those with Paul also heard a voice?

[Guest amazed]

Numbers mean nothing.

They do if they are eyewitnesses to an event. We have over 500 and yet we could easily make a solid case with 10.

[bdp]

Numbers mean nothing.

They do if they are eyewitnesses to an event. We have over 500 and yet we could easily make a solid case with 10.

 

I meant in regards to your 'billions' of Christians - that's meaningless.

 

Hearing a voice - which is also contradicted in a later account in Acts - is not seeing a physical, resurrected body. My brother and I both heard a voice speak my name when I was around nine - neither of us can explain it to this day but it means nothing.

[Ouroboros]

Thats not what the scholars who study this say along with a billion Christians. Sorry. Your on the wrong side on this one.. .

You do know that there are more non-Christians in the world than Christians. There are only 1/3rd of the world population who believe in Jesus and the Bible, and 1/3 are Muslims, then last 1/3 is a mix. (Something like that)

 

If we use argument from majority, then Christians are not.

[Guest amazed]

Thats not what the scholars who study this say along with a billion Christians. Sorry. Your on the wrong side on this one.. .

You do know that there are more non-Christians in the world than Christians. There are only 1/3rd of the world population who believe in Jesus and the Bible, and 1/3 are Muslims, then last 1/3 is a mix. (Something like that)

 

If we use argument from majority, then Christians are not.

Would you agree there are over a billion Christians?

[bdp]

Thats not what the scholars who study this say along with a billion Christians. Sorry. Your on the wrong side on this one.. .

You do know that there are more non-Christians in the world than Christians. There are only 1/3rd of the world population who believe in Jesus and the Bible, and 1/3 are Muslims, then last 1/3 is a mix. (Something like that)

 

If we use argument from majority, then Christians are not.

Would you agree there are over a billion Christians?

 

Seems like an arbitrary and inflated number to me, but it makes no difference anyway.

[Guest amazed]

Numbers mean nothing.

They do if they are eyewitnesses to an event. We have over 500 and yet we could easily make a solid case with 10.

 

I meant in regards to your 'billions' of Christians - that's meaningless.

 

Hearing a voice - which is also contradicted in a later account in Acts - is not seeing a physical, resurrected body. My brother and I both heard a voice speak my name when I was around nine - neither of us can explain it to this day but it means nothing.

Not so fast. What Paul expierenced on the Damascus road was more than a vision if others heard the voice. In fact those who were with him also fell to the ground. Keep in mind this is not the only time the risen Christ was seen. We also have the 2 on the road to Emmaus.

[bdp]

Numbers mean nothing.

They do if they are eyewitnesses to an event. We have over 500 and yet we could easily make a solid case with 10.

 

I meant in regards to your 'billions' of Christians - that's meaningless.

 

Hearing a voice - which is also contradicted in a later account in Acts - is not seeing a physical, resurrected body. My brother and I both heard a voice speak my name when I was around nine - neither of us can explain it to this day but it means nothing.

Not so fast. What Paul expierenced on the Damascus road was more than a vision if others heard the voice. In fact those who were with him also fell to the ground. Keep in mind this is not the only time the risen Christ was seen. We also have the 2 on the road to Emmaus.

 

Hearing a voice is not SEEING, and the three accounts in Acts differ - in 22:9 those who were with Paul did not 'hear (with comprehension)' the voice.

[godlessgrrl]

Hey amazed, just out of curiosity - who counts as a Christian?

 

Is it anybody who says they're Christian, or do you believe there's some other more specific criteria?

[Ouroboros]

Would you agree there are over a billion Christians?

Would you agree there are over two billion Muslims? (2.1 billion)

 

And would you agree there are close to one billion atheists in the world? (16%)

 

Btw, most of the Christians you refer to are not true Christians. About 90% of them don't really believe, but they are just false Christians.

[centauri]

Frankly, I guess there's just no point in having any dialog with you.

I just got finished asking you to cite a scholarly work that says the mass resurrection of the dead as told in Matt 27 was reliable history.

You provided nothing.

I then asked that you stop advertising things as reliable and proven when you can't establish that they are.

It's not honest and I thought honesty was supposed to be a Christian virtue.

So what do you do next?

You go right back to pumping propaganda about the Gospels being reliable.

You tell me to read scholarly works, none of which you could name, that would validate the mass resurrection of the dead as reliable history.

This was a far bigger event in history than Jesus being resurrected because many dead people rose and strolled into Jerusalem, being seen by many people in the town.

But the risen Jesus only appeared to cult members, which is incredibly convenient for Christianity.

 

The mass resurrection of the dead is huge in terms of history, yet there is no validation for it anywhere.

Not even Luke, the alleged great historian, bothered to mention it.

There are other examples of unconfirmed NT history and it often conflicts with itself.

The birth narratives, the genealogy of Jesus, the timing of the crucifixion, and where the risen Jesus first appeared to the 11 disciples as a group are some examples of conflict.

What you utterly fail to entertain is the possiblity that the Gospels are not reliable history because they contain embellishments, where authors told a story according to their preferences or the preferences of others.

While a cult leader called "Jesus" could have existed, "Jesus of Nazareth" as portrayed in the Gospels is severely lacking in historical credibility, especially if one buys into the claim that the Gospels were inspired by an infallible sky deity that wants everyone to believe his story.

I did not claim to know anything about those who were resurrected with Christ.

You claimed the Gospels were reliable history and proven to be accurate.

The mass resurrection of the dead is history according to the Gospel of Matthew.

You have not established it as reliable.

 

Just because i don't have any sources right now to back it up does not matter.

Of course it doesn't matter to you because if it did, it would derail your preaching.

You want to make all sorts of claims and have those claims stand as facts regardless of their credibility.

That's why I said earlier that all you really want to do is pump Christian talking points.

 

What i do have though is the resurrection of Christ. That evidence is quite strong.

The evidence is strong because you want it to be strong.

It makes you feel good to believe it.

However, the evidence comes from cult writings designed to promote the story and product.

The Ford F-150 pickup truck is the best truck in the world.

The evidence is quite strong for this because it's found in the Ford Motor Company advertising broucher.

 

Now can you deomstrate that the gospels are embellishments? What proof will you offer?

I'll offer evidence just as strong as yours.

The mass resurrection of the dead in Matt 27 is an attempt to show an event corresponding to the advent of the messianic era, when dead people were to be raised, as foretold in the Hebrew scriptures.

It attempts to tie this foretold event directly to Jesus, which in turn serves to validate Jesus as the expected king messiah.

Doing this creates an air of credibility for Jesus, who is the product being sold in the Gospels.

It's manufacturing a prophecy fulfillment to demonstrate credibility.

The author of Matthew peppers his account with alledged fulfillment of various scriptures, often taken completely out of context.

The trip to Egypt, the infant death decree, and the use of Isa 7:14 are some examples.

The Gospels are driven by the need to fulfill scripture and have the character "Jesus" as its centerpiece.

[Ouroboros]

FYI,

 

I locked Amazed's account.

[Guest ephymeris]

huzzah!

[Guest xandrani]

My dad died in 1988 - I almost never think of him anymore.

I lost my dad a few years ago and think of him now and again. I do believe i will see him again. If it were not for the hope i have in Christ i would be quite discouraged and without hope. I would think atheism gives no hope on this issue.

 

If by 'hope' you mean 'delusion' then yes Christianity gives 'hope' in the area of death.

 

There is no proof of life after death. Houdini and his wife agreed that the first of them to die would contact the remaining person at all costs. Needless to say no message was received. See this text:

 

Prior to his untimely death in 1926, Houdini made a secret pact with Bess, his wife of thirty-two years. They made a ten word code which only each of them knew. Each would try their best to communicate with the other once they passed over. The correct code would act as proof that it was really them coming through from the other side. For ten (10) years Mrs. Houdini offered a $10,000 reward for anyone, psychic or layman, who could communicate with Harry. She visited psychics from around the world in an attempt to communicate with him. Not a single psychic could produce the secret code, although almost all of them claimed to have communicated with Houdini himself on the other side. In her last séance in 1936, she tried one final time to reach Harry. After this final failure, Bess made this little speech, "I do not think that Harry will come back to me, or anyone. I think the dead don't speak. I now regretfully turn out the light. This is the end, Harry, good night!" She then blew out the candle that she had lit after his death and that had been buring for him for ten years. In 1937, Mrs. Houdini, sent out a final letter to the media, the general public and to those psychics who participated saying, "Since the failure of the ten year test, it is my opinion that all concerned have struck a mighty worldwide blow at superstition."

 

Now of course as a Christian I guess you'll have some 'reason' why she couldn't be contacted?

[Shyone]

If by 'hope' you mean 'delusion' then yes Christianity gives 'hope' in the area of death.

I suppose Oral Roberts could give some insight regarding Heaven - if he could.

 

His first words on getting to his ultimate destination? "Oh, shit."

 

Now he's sitting with his Ass in the Sand, His Toes in the Lake of Fire, and eating unleavened bread.

[Guest Marty]

Within Christianity we do have the hope of seeing loved ones again. It helps to make death bearable.

 

But that's all it is-hope.

 

Amazed, where were you before you were born? Was it uncomfortable? Was it boring waiting eons to be born?

 

That is where you go when you die. Fearing death is like fearing eating or sleeping; it is a fact of life that we can not escape. If there were eons that existed before you arrived here, why do you think it is logical you will now exist forever?

 

My grandparents died over 10 years ago...I miss my grandpa at times, but for the most part it doesn't affect me at all.

 

Last Tuesday I had to put my first dog down and it was really hard for me for about 3 days, but the difficulty was in the fact that she was suffering at the end, not because she's gone. She gave me more than I thought was possible, and I gave her everything I could. She no longer is suffering, and I will always have her memories and life lessons she taught me.

[Guest Marty]

Answer me this - if Christians are so convinced of an afterlife, why are so many so reluctant to let loved ones go? If you are sure you'll see them again, then, as painful as someone's death might be, there should be comfort in the fact that you know this person will be waiting for you. But I have seen Christians mourn far longer (and far louder) than a lot of non-Christians. Why is that?

 

My paternal grandfather died when I was 7, and it was my first dealings with death. I remember my (half) Aunt crying up a HUGE tear-storm (she's a drama queen anyway) and distinctly remember thinking why everyone was sad if Poppi was now in heaven with jesus. Didn't make any sense to me at all.

[Guest Marty]

I don't see atheism able to deal effectively with this because it denies at it core what we all desire and that is life. Atheism, if true, has to be the most depressing philosphy ever devised by men. It gives no hope. There is a better and true way that actually tells us that this life is not the end.

 

First off, I do not desire to live forever. THAT thought scares me far more than the thought of death.

 

Secondly, and I'm sure you know this but just choose to ignore it when it hinders your argument, but Atheism is NOT a philosophy. It is simply a lack of god belief. There is no "rule book" or anything that we follow. To be an Atheist you only have to say no when you are asked if you believe in any gods.

 

Thirdly, I'd rather have truth and facts than hope. Hope is empty; it is just a better word for "wishful thinking".

 

Fourthly, prove to me that your way is "true".

[Guest AmytheAtheist]

It's interesting that you bring "hope" into the equation of grief. I grieve like any other person. You go through the stages of it, feeling sad, even angry that this person you love is now gone. But I don't feel any less comforted being a non-believer. I think of it this way: death is just another part of the life cycle. I maintain hope and comfort by being thankful that I had the person in my life and got to know them during their time here. I don't feel any less "hope" because I don't believe in a holy reunion later. Why do you Christians assume that non-believers are a sad and hopeless bunch? I'm way happier as a non-believer because I'm not constantly feeling fearful of getting tortured for all eternity if I'm not constantly following the rules (from the reasonable to the ridiculous). Most of us are. I think about people I've loved and lost, and reflect on the good memories once I get over the "sting" of someone's passing. I have learned from losing loved ones that we should always be careful how we treat our loved ones, and try to let people know how much we care about them on a daily basis. Ever since a very close friend passed away in a tragic accident this past March, I'm way more diligent about telling people I love them, for instance. If that's not positive, I am not sure what is.

[BrightStar]

I just wanted to thank those of u who posted about how u deal with death as an atheist. I came across this forum when I did a google search because I was having a hard time with the realization that there may be nothing after death.

 

I don't really know if I would want to live forever but thinking about going to sleep forever made me very depressed but reading all ur posts helped me a lot. So I just wanted to say thank u

[buffettphan]

I just wanted to thank those of u who posted about how u deal with death as an atheist. I came across this forum when I did a google search because I was having a hard time with the realization that there may be nothing after death.

 

I don't really know if I would want to live forever but thinking about going to sleep forever made me very depressed but reading all ur posts helped me a lot. So I just wanted to say thank u

 

 

 

Just this morning I read something posted on the on the main blog by dealdoctor that I really liked. In replying to "I'm sure deep down they wish there was more to this world then a short 80 years. " dealdoctor said:

There are actually some very happy atheists. How could that be? They accept life and they appreciate life. Imagine you and a good friend go to a concert to hear your favorite musician live. I mean this is YOUR favorite musician and you really dig their tunes. You know when you buy the ticket it is going to be GREAT but you also know that it will have a start and a finish. KNOWING that you still PAY for the ticket and it costs you dearly. When the show starts it is really really WONDERFUL. I mean it is even better than you hoped. All the while you get so into it you forget it is going to be over at some point. Sure enough after the last song you like it so must you stand up and APPLAUD. You shout, "Yes!! Fantastic!" It was really really good. If I ask you was it worth the price of the ticket? You say, " Man, are you kidding, that was fucking AWESOME!" The lights come on and everyone leaves the concert. You are on a HIGH not a SAD. It ended but that is ok.

 

The difference is we atheists get to pick out concerts, our wives, our sunsets, out vacations, our rests under shade trees on hot days, our good books, our music, our hobbies, our lots of cool shit in life. We know that life will end BUT hey this is an AWESOME world, magnificent universe AND we get the chance to be in the "concert" of life. In fact we get in FREE. It costs us nothing to come IN to the concert. BUT we do pay for the ticket on the way out. Death is the PRICE of life. Was it worth it? Oh, hell yes! Some of us will be lying down on our death beds but on the inside, in our minds, hearts and feelings we will be STANDING UP, clapping and saying , " Yes,!! Fantastic!" Really, gratitude can send depression and meaningless out the back door running like a scalded dog! If you have no gratitude for your 80 years of LIFE because it is not eternal, SHAME on you (grin). If you don't like 80 years why the fuck would a gazillion mean much more? It is not about being an atheist or a theist. It is about being a grateful person instead of an ungrateful person. Religion has zero to do with that. As for me I like the concert, hear the music and I am clapping!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BrightStar]

I just wanted to thank those of u who posted about how u deal with death as an atheist. I came across this forum when I did a google search because I was having a hard time with the realization that there may be nothing after death.

 

I don't really know if I would want to live forever but thinking about going to sleep forever made me very depressed but reading all ur posts helped me a lot. So I just wanted to say thank u

 

 

 

Just this morning I read something posted on the on the main blog by dealdoctor that I really liked. In replying to "I'm sure deep down they wish there was more to this world then a short 80 years. " dealdoctor said:

There are actually some very happy atheists. How could that be? They accept life and they appreciate life. Imagine you and a good friend go to a concert to hear your favorite musician live. I mean this is YOUR favorite musician and you really dig their tunes. You know when you buy the ticket it is going to be GREAT but you also know that it will have a start and a finish. KNOWING that you still PAY for the ticket and it costs you dearly. When the show starts it is really really WONDERFUL. I mean it is even better than you hoped. All the while you get so into it you forget it is going to be over at some point. Sure enough after the last song you like it so must you stand up and APPLAUD. You shout, "Yes!! Fantastic!" It was really really good. If I ask you was it worth the price of the ticket? You say, " Man, are you kidding, that was fucking AWESOME!" The lights come on and everyone leaves the concert. You are on a HIGH not a SAD. It ended but that is ok.

 

The difference is we atheists get to pick out concerts, our wives, our sunsets, out vacations, our rests under shade trees on hot days, our good books, our music, our hobbies, our lots of cool shit in life. We know that life will end BUT hey this is an AWESOME world, magnificent universe AND we get the chance to be in the "concert" of life. In fact we get in FREE. It costs us nothing to come IN to the concert. BUT we do pay for the ticket on the way out. Death is the PRICE of life. Was it worth it? Oh, hell yes! Some of us will be lying down on our death beds but on the inside, in our minds, hearts and feelings we will be STANDING UP, clapping and saying , " Yes,!! Fantastic!" Really, gratitude can send depression and meaningless out the back door running like a scalded dog! If you have no gratitude for your 80 years of LIFE because it is not eternal, SHAME on you (grin). If you don't like 80 years why the fuck would a gazillion mean much more? It is not about being an atheist or a theist. It is about being a grateful person instead of an ungrateful person. Religion has zero to do with that. As for me I like the concert, hear the music and I am clapping!

 

 

That is awesome! Thanks for sharing.

[AlphaToOmega]

Why do you want to find out?

 

Phanta

I'm curious to see how an atheist deals with perhaps the most important issue of life. The issue of death is something all worldviews need to deal with at some time.

 

Hey it could be just me but I think the most important thing about life is living it not dying.