Guest ephymeris Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 In response to the original post, I'm reposting this from the Ex-c Life forum. I didn't feel like rewriting a response, but wanted to add my input since I feel like I'm in a good place with the idea of human mortality. The thought of my own death used to bother me a lot. I was really disturbed, at first, at the thought of infinite silence after death until I realized there would be no infinite silence. Once I equated what I "felt" before I was born with how I will "feel" after I die, it alleviated my fear. I went though the death of a close friend 2 months ago and found that my grief was no different that it was when I was a christian. I was broken hearted over the loss of this person in my life. The potential of seeing them in heaven, as I believed when I was a christian, did not soothe my grief back then. I was so sad when my friend recently died and I still think about him often but it helped me to try to grasp how LUCKY I was to 1. be alive myself and 2. be in the circumstances to have known and loved him. The Dawkins quote "We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Arabia. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here." helped me immensely and has (in a shortened version) become like a mantra of mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest amazed Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 In response to the original post, I'm reposting this from the Ex-c Life forum. I didn't feel like rewriting a response, but wanted to add my input since I feel like I'm in a good place with the idea of human mortality. The thought of my own death used to bother me a lot. I was really disturbed, at first, at the thought of infinite silence after death until I realized there would be no infinite silence. Once I equated what I "felt" before I was born with how I will "feel" after I die, it alleviated my fear. I went though the death of a close friend 2 months ago and found that my grief was no different that it was when I was a christian. I was broken hearted over the loss of this person in my life. The potential of seeing them in heaven, as I believed when I was a christian, did not soothe my grief back then. I was so sad when my friend recently died and I still think about him often but it helped me to try to grasp how LUCKY I was to 1. be alive myself and 2. be in the circumstances to have known and loved him. The Dawkins quote "We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Arabia. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here." helped me immensely and has (in a shortened version) become like a mantra of mine. Sorry to hear about the loss of your friend. In regards to rest i find no hope in this view. If this is how it really is going to be then we are all to be pitied. What a heavy burden you carry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I realize you're just going to ignore my answer to this, but I'll post it anyway: How many people do you think remember who these figures are? How have any of them inspired mankind over the centuries? Probably millions of people have remembered these figures with great fondness and reverence, myself included. The stories which encompass all of them have inspired people to create beautiful works of art and literature time and again, for roughly the past 3000 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ephymeris Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Sorry to hear about the loss of your friend. In regards to rest i find no hope in this view. If this is how it really is going to be then we are all to be pitied. What a heavy burden you carry. I don't need pity. I feel no sorrow, nor burden. I feel free to love and cherish every moment I spend with every person I meet because all we have is this moment, this life. I see people everyday who's life has changed forever due to severe physical disability and injury. I do not pity them, they have a life to experience and live. I have no regrets. I do feel it's a pity, though, that millions will waste their lives waiting on something better to come along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest amazed Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I realize you're just going to ignore my answer to this, but I'll post it anyway: How many people do you think remember who these figures are? How have any of them inspired mankind over the centuries? Probably millions of people have remembered these figures with great fondness and reverence, myself included. The stories which encompass all of them have inspired people to create beautiful works of art and literature time and again, for roughly the past 3000 years. What can i say??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest amazed Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Sorry to hear about the loss of your friend. In regards to rest i find no hope in this view. If this is how it really is going to be then we are all to be pitied. What a heavy burden you carry. I don't need pity. I feel no sorrow, nor burden. I feel free to love and cherish every moment I spend with every person I meet because all we have is this moment, this life. I see people everyday who's life has changed forever due to severe physical disability and injury. I do not pity them, they have a life to experience and live. I have no regrets. I do feel it's a pity, though, that millions will waste their lives waiting on something better to come along. Waiting for something better to come based on good reasons is hope and not pity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ephymeris Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Sorry to hear about the loss of your friend. In regards to rest i find no hope in this view. If this is how it really is going to be then we are all to be pitied. What a heavy burden you carry. I don't need pity. I feel no sorrow, nor burden. I feel free to love and cherish every moment I spend with every person I meet because all we have is this moment, this life. I see people everyday who's life has changed forever due to severe physical disability and injury. I do not pity them, they have a life to experience and live. I have no regrets. I do feel it's a pity, though, that millions will waste their lives waiting on something better to come along. Waiting for something better to come based on good reasons is hope and not pity. I have hope too that people will continue to explore our world and universe, broaden our understanding, increase our empathy and interconnectedness, and express our uniqueness in the here and now. I am not concerned with a dream of the future that I cannot touch, hear, smell, see, taste or otherwise perceive in any rational way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 What can i say??? You could say "Thank you for the information; I didn't know that. I understand now that there are quite a few people other than Jesus who have inspired others over the centuries, some for even longer than he." To which I would likely respond: "No problem, you're welcome. Thank you for paying attention. Glad to be able to educate a little." Then we'd move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest amazed Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 What can i say??? You could say "Thank you for the information; I didn't know that. I understand now that there are quite a few people other than Jesus who have inspired others over the centuries, some for even longer than he." To which I would likely respond: "No problem, you're welcome. Thank you for paying attention. Glad to be able to educate a little." Then we'd move on. Thank you. How do you deal with death knowing this is all there is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Thank you. How do you deal with death knowing this is all there is? Thank you for asking. If you will do me the courtesy of paying attention to the answer: I deal with death by accepting that it will happen and doing my best to prepare for it. Knowing that "this is all there is" - which I interpret to mean that all anyone has is one lifetime lasting only a few decades - and knowing that death will end it, I cope with that by making sure that what little life I or others have is as high quality as possible. I make the effort to say what needs to be said, do what needs to be done, to value life more highly, enjoy it more deeply, reduce suffering if and where I can, things like that. I regard a life as more precious because it is limited. I tie up loose ends - today I wrote up a draft of my will, for example. Death holds no sting for me anymore. I fear old age and pain, but I don't fear death. I've lost loved ones - people I cared about so deeply that losing them is gutwrenching to this day. The loss is softened by the acceptance that death is inevitable, they are no longer suffering from the pains that killed them, and life will go on. I miss them, but I said what I needed to say, and I feel grateful that they were a part of my life for the time that they existed. I also find hope in future generations, rather than an elusive afterlife. I have no children, but there are beloved children in my family who will carry on after my generation has cleared away. With any luck they will do better than I did. That's a few thoughts on how I cope with death. It's okay if you don't quite understand or can't see how that works. It's okay to admit you don't get it, either: it's no easy thing to adopt someone else's way of looking at things. I just wish that you'd accept that we don't think the way you do, instead of trying to stick us in the box you keep putting us in. Anyhoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest amazed Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Thank you. How do you deal with death knowing this is all there is? Thank you for asking. If you will do me the courtesy of paying attention to the answer: I deal with death by accepting that it will happen and doing my best to prepare for it. Knowing that "this is all there is" - which I interpret to mean that all anyone has is one lifetime lasting only a few decades - and knowing that death will end it, I cope with that by making sure that what little life I or others have is as high quality as possible. I make the effort to say what needs to be said, do what needs to be done, to value life more highly, enjoy it more deeply, reduce suffering if and where I can, things like that. I regard a life as more precious because it is limited. I tie up loose ends - today I wrote up a draft of my will, for example. Death holds no sting for me anymore. I fear old age and pain, but I don't fear death. I've lost loved ones - people I cared about so deeply that losing them is gutwrenching to this day. The loss is softened by the acceptance that death is inevitable, they are no longer suffering from the pains that killed them, and life will go on. I miss them, but I said what I needed to say, and I feel grateful that they were a part of my life for the time that they existed. I also find hope in future generations, rather than an elusive afterlife. I have no children, but there are beloved children in my family who will carry on after my generation has cleared away. With any luck they will do better than I did. That's a few thoughts on how I cope with death. It's okay if you don't quite understand or can't see how that works. It's okay to admit you don't get it, either: it's no easy thing to adopt someone else's way of looking at things. I just wish that you'd accept that we don't think the way you do, instead of trying to stick us in the box you keep putting us in. Anyhoo. What makes you think there is no life after death? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I thought his middle initial was an "H"? As in Jesus H. Christ! On a cracker! He's supposed to be on a cracker! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I didn't say there was no evidence for other ancient figures but that we have more evidence and better evidence for any figure of ancient history. That shows ignorance of the ancient world. ...Arete - Queen of the Phaeacians, wife of Alcinous, and mother of Nausicaa. Arete is intelligent and influential. Nausicaa tells Odysseus to make his appeal for assistance to Arete. There are so many more. How many people do you think remember who these figures are? How have any of them inspired mankind over the centuries? Good grief! Didn't you take either history or literature in high school? Has our educational system fallen this far? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 What makes you think there is no life after death? In a nutshell, the general lack of repeatable, verifiable, falsifiable evidence that there is a life after death. Anecdotes regarding NDE's are interesting, but I believe their veracity has already been addressed, so I will not repeat what has already been said on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakefoot Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I thought his middle initial was an "H"? As in Jesus H. Christ! On a cracker! He's supposed to be on a cracker! Wheat or rye? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest amazed Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 What makes you think there is no life after death? In a nutshell, the general lack of repeatable, verifiable, falsifiable evidence that there is a life after death. Anecdotes regarding NDE's are interesting, but I believe their veracity has already been addressed, so I will not repeat what has already been said on that. It is true NDE' have been addressed and to say they are all brain activity fails to account how someone in a "state of death" could describe events miles away without using any of the parts of a physical body. This certainly points to some kind of survival after death or at least a dimension of man that is not physical. This goes well with the Christian worldview that teaches we are more than meat machines but we have a spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakefoot Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 What makes you think there is no life after death? In a nutshell, the general lack of repeatable, verifiable, falsifiable evidence that there is a life after death. Anecdotes regarding NDE's are interesting, but I believe their veracity has already been addressed, so I will not repeat what has already been said on that. It is true NDE' have been addressed and to say they are all brain activity fails to account how someone in a "state of death" could describe events miles away without using any of the parts of a physical body. This certainly points to some kind of survival after death or at least a dimension of man that is not physical. This goes well with the Christian worldview that teaches we are more than meat machines but we have a spirit. More horseshit. I addressed it here: http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?/topic/34736-how-do-atheist-deal-with-death/page__st__320__p__506944entry506944 you just refuse to admit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest amazed Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 What makes you think there is no life after death? In a nutshell, the general lack of repeatable, verifiable, falsifiable evidence that there is a life after death. Anecdotes regarding NDE's are interesting, but I believe their veracity has already been addressed, so I will not repeat what has already been said on that. It is true NDE' have been addressed and to say they are all brain activity fails to account how someone in a "state of death" could describe events miles away without using any of the parts of a physical body. This certainly points to some kind of survival after death or at least a dimension of man that is not physical. This goes well with the Christian worldview that teaches we are more than meat machines but we have a spirit. More horseshit. I addressed it here: http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?/topic/34736-how-do-atheist-deal-with-death/page__st__320__p__506944entry506944 you just refuse to admit it. I have already shown you are incorrect. That's just a fact... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakefoot Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 What makes you think there is no life after death? In a nutshell, the general lack of repeatable, verifiable, falsifiable evidence that there is a life after death. Anecdotes regarding NDE's are interesting, but I believe their veracity has already been addressed, so I will not repeat what has already been said on that. It is true NDE' have been addressed and to say they are all brain activity fails to account how someone in a "state of death" could describe events miles away without using any of the parts of a physical body. This certainly points to some kind of survival after death or at least a dimension of man that is not physical. This goes well with the Christian worldview that teaches we are more than meat machines but we have a spirit. More horseshit. I addressed it here: http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?/topic/34736-how-do-atheist-deal-with-death/page__st__320__p__506944entry506944 you just refuse to admit it. I have already shown you are incorrect. That's just a fact... You have shown nothing but ignorance, empty platitudes, and circular reasoning, dancing around going "la-la-la, I can't hear you, la-la-la" with your fingers figuratively in your ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdp Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 meat machines PUPPETS. Meat PUPPETS. Even if an NDE was a spiritual phenomenon (which I reject) it doesn't in any way validate Christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I didn't say there was no evidence for other ancient figures but that we have more evidence and better evidence for any figure of ancient history. That you think this betrays your incredible lack of education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 How many people do you think remember who these figures are? How have any of them inspired mankind over the centuries? Had Constantine decided that Mithra made a better glue under which to tie his empire together and extract the divine right of kings then you would no doubt be shedding tears and raising your hands on Sunday to the Yazad. Your understanding of your own religion and its history is pitiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest amazed Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 How many people do you think remember who these figures are? How have any of them inspired mankind over the centuries? Had Constantine decided that Mithra made a better glue under which to tie his empire together and extract the divine right of kings then you would no doubt be shedding tears and raising your hands on Sunday to the Yazad. Your understanding of your own religion and its history is pitiful. How so??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest amazed Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 meat machines PUPPETS. Meat PUPPETS. Even if an NDE was a spiritual phenomenon (which I reject) it doesn't in any way validate Christianity. What it does show is that some kind of immaterial part of man survives with awarness. This fits well with the idea of a soul-spirit that Christianity teaches we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakefoot Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 How many people do you think remember who these figures are? How have any of them inspired mankind over the centuries? Had Constantine decided that Mithra made a better glue under which to tie his empire together and extract the divine right of kings then you would no doubt be shedding tears and raising your hands on Sunday to the Yazad. Your understanding of your own religion and its history is pitiful. How so??? How about YOU tell us Constantine's role in the spread of xtianity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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