How Do Atheist Deal With Death?

[Guest amazed]

Do you know of any examples in history that have inspired millions of people to change the course of their lives like Christ has? Are their any great atheists of the past that inspired mankind to do great things in areas of charity, education, or medicine?

This is why you get called names and mocked amazed. People have told you this over and over and there you go asking the question again. Before you post, go back and re-read your threads.

Where have i asked this question before?

[Kuroikaze]

Do you know of any examples in history that have inspired millions of people to change the course of their lives like Christ has? Are their any great atheists of the past that inspired mankind to do great things in areas of charity, education, or medicine?

 

We have already given you dozens of examples.........

 

 

and you wonder why we seem snarky? Stop asking questions we have already answered.

[NotBlinded]

Do you know of any examples in history that have inspired millions of people to change the course of their lives like Christ has? Are their any great atheists of the past that inspired mankind to do great things in areas of charity, education, or medicine?

This is why you get called names and mocked amazed. People have told you this over and over and there you go asking the question again. Before you post, go back and re-read your threads.

Where have i asked this question before?

Ok, so you want an individual and not an institution this time. For Pete's sake amazed...

 

Buddha...gotta love the fat man.

[Kuroikaze]

Where have i asked this question before?

 

Are you kidding me? do you have ADD?

 

 

 

Do you think if atheism was as popular as Christianity was during the past 2000 years we would have charities and schools for the poor?

 

 

I could find more if I cared to.....

 

 

btw my answer was that it would and has even despite its lack of popularity.

[Ouroboros]

Just because the gospel accounts were written down 30-40 years after the events does not mean there were not written records by those who heard him teach and do miracles. In fact the miracles had the effect of "cementing" their memories of what happened much like most of us can remeber what we were doing when we first heard-saw the 911 events.

And just because the authors were anonymous at first and later were named to each book based on tradition doesn't mean they actually were written by those authors or even eye-witnesses accounts.

 

And our recollections of the events do change. It's a fact. Even with extraordinary events the memory gets skewed and altered. I remember where I was, but if you would ask me which ones of the kids sitting in the sofa, I couldn't tell you.

 

But those aspects apart, the Gospel stories to read more like a fiction story than real observed events.

[Ouroboros]

Luke did write an account based on those who were eyewitnesses.

Which means that they are hearsay. That's the definition of hearsay.

 

If these accounts in I Corinthians 15 are hearsay why did the authorities in Jerusalem have to bribe the soldiers and why didn't they produce the body of Christ.

Because those are only stories. If those events didn't happen, or if they happened in some different way, then your question fails to give any support to your conclusion.

 

Its well established the disciples were in no position mentally to steal it either.

How do you know? You were there? Well established by who?

[Ouroboros]

Do you know of any examples in history that have inspired millions of people to change the course of their lives like Christ has? Are their any great atheists of the past that inspired mankind to do great things in areas of charity, education, or medicine?

Bertrand Russel, Alan Turing, Bill Gates, ...

 

If we widen the new to include non-Christians: Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle who started Universities, and Greek philosophers in general who contributed to the first concepts of democracy and political theory, including several medical scientists around 200-300 BC. Darwin, Einstein, gosh, there are plenty of non-Christian contributors to history. Some of the philosophers who brought about enlightenment and even the American constitution were strong opponents of Christian religion, and so on...

 

Christianity never had any strong influence on medicine. It was people who cared about people, because the did care about them, not because they were Christian. There are many Jews for instance in the past history who influenced medicine, science, and education. Actually, I suspect there are more Jews than Christians, but I haven't done any formal study to confirm that suspicion.

[Max]

I find it much easier to deal with death as an atheist as I did as a xtian. Now, I believe the dead just cease to exist. It's sad to lose someone you love, but you can rest assured that they are not suffering.

 

As a xtian, I was constantly tormented by the prospect that many fine people would suffer for all of eternity. I cried many nights because this was such a painful prospect.

[Guest amazed]

Luke did write an account based on those who were eyewitnesses.

Which means that they are hearsay. That's the definition of hearsay.

 

If these accounts in I Corinthians 15 are hearsay why did the authorities in Jerusalem have to bribe the soldiers and why didn't they produce the body of Christ.

Because those are only stories. If those events didn't happen, or if they happened in some different way, then your question fails to give any support to your conclusion.

 

Its well established the disciples were in no position mentally to steal it either.

How do you know? You were there? Well established by who?

 

Do you ask the same questions when you read secular ancient historical accounts?

[Guest amazed]

I find it much easier to deal with death as an atheist as I did as a xtian. Now, I believe the dead just cease to exist. It's sad to lose someone you love, but you can rest assured that they are not suffering.

 

As a xtian, I was constantly tormented by the prospect that many fine people would suffer for all of eternity. I cried many nights because this was such a painful prospect.

What makes you think they cease to exist? How do you know they are not suffering?

[Kuroikaze]

 

Do you ask the same questions when you read secular ancient historical accounts?

 

Yes I would.

[Guest amazed]

Do you know of any examples in history that have inspired millions of people to change the course of their lives like Christ has? Are their any great atheists of the past that inspired mankind to do great things in areas of charity, education, or medicine?

Bertrand Russel, Alan Turing, Bill Gates, ...

 

If we widen the new to include non-Christians: Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle who started Universities, and Greek philosophers in general who contributed to the first concepts of democracy and political theory, including several medical scientists around 200-300 BC. Darwin, Einstein, gosh, there are plenty of non-Christian contributors to history. Some of the philosophers who brought about enlightenment and even the American constitution were strong opponents of Christian religion, and so on...

 

Christianity never had any strong influence on medicine. It was people who cared about people, because the did care about them, not because they were Christian. There are many Jews for instance in the past history who influenced medicine, science, and education. Actually, I suspect there are more Jews than Christians, but I haven't done any formal study to confirm that suspicion.

During the early centuries when the plague struck the Roman empire it was the christians who for the most part ministered to those who were sick at great risk to themselves. I think it was Pliny the Younger who commented how amazed he was at this.

[Guest amazed]

 

Do you ask the same questions when you read secular ancient historical accounts?

 

Yes I would.

Do you arrive at the same conclusions as you do with NT?

Do you consider them hearsay also?

[Kuroikaze]

I find it much easier to deal with death as an atheist as I did as a xtian. Now, I believe the dead just cease to exist. It's sad to lose someone you love, but you can rest assured that they are not suffering.

 

As a xtian, I was constantly tormented by the prospect that many fine people would suffer for all of eternity. I cried many nights because this was such a painful prospect.

What makes you think they cease to exist? How do you know they are not suffering?

 

The better question is how do you KNOW they ARE?

 

All the evidence I can gather suggests that there is no life after death. NDE's are not consistent or well documented, and do not count as reliable evidence in my opinion, for the same reason that Bigfoot sightings and alien abductions do not count.

 

You make a claim, unless you can provide evidence of said claim then I am skeptical.

[Kuroikaze]

Do you arrive at the same conclusions as you do with NT?

Do you consider them hearsay also?

 

Umm.....well not all of it IS hearsay... perhaps you can give me a concrete example to deal with. I already talked about the example of Alexander the great that you gave and thought I trounced your reasoning quite soundly.

[Guest amazed]

I find it much easier to deal with death as an atheist as I did as a xtian. Now, I believe the dead just cease to exist. It's sad to lose someone you love, but you can rest assured that they are not suffering.

 

As a xtian, I was constantly tormented by the prospect that many fine people would suffer for all of eternity. I cried many nights because this was such a painful prospect.

What makes you think they cease to exist? How do you know they are not suffering?

 

The better question is how do you KNOW they ARE?

 

All the evidence I can gather suggests that there is no life after death. NDE's are not consistent or well documented, and do not count as reliable evidence in my opinion, for the same reason that Bigfoot sightings and alien abductions do not count.

 

You make a claim, unless you can provide evidence of said claim then I am skeptical.

There are thousands of cases of near death expierences and many cannot be easily dismissed as some kind of function of the brain. Something immaterial of a person survives in some manner.

As for knowing the state of someone who has died i don't. I have a number of reasons why i believe there is life after death.

1- Near death expierences

2- The Scriptures say there is

3-i know we are more than meat machines i.e. we are more than our physical bodies. The concept that we have a personal identity that is not directly related to our physical bodies.

4- the mind- not to be confused with the brain.

[Guest amazed]

Do you arrive at the same conclusions as you do with NT?

Do you consider them hearsay also?

 

Umm.....well not all of it IS hearsay... perhaps you can give me a concrete example to deal with. I already talked about the example of Alexander the great that you gave and thought I trounced your reasoning quite soundly.

Lets take the movie the "300". I hope you have seen it because it is based on a historical account. These 300 spartan soldiers did what is impossible i.e. the held off an army thousands for quite some time. Would you think this event is hearsay also since it borders on the impossible?

[Kuroikaze]

1- Near death expierences

 

unconvincing pseudoscience, about as reliable as homeopathy and dowsing, and as believable as a Bigfoot nut or Scientologist.

 

 

2- The Scriptures say there is

 

 

I know what they say and could not care less. I consider this proof of something about as much as you consider the Koran as proof of something.

 

 

3-i know we are more than meat machines i.e. we are more than our physical bodies. The concept that we have a personal identity that is not directly related to our physical bodies.

 

You know no such thing, this is opinion and bald assertion. There are other explanations, and even if we had none it wouldn't make this one correct.

 

 

 

4- the mind- not to be confused with the brain.

 

 

they are the same thing as far as I can see.

[Guest amazed]

Just because the gospel accounts were written down 30-40 years after the events does not mean there were not written records by those who heard him teach and do miracles. In fact the miracles had the effect of "cementing" their memories of what happened much like most of us can remeber what we were doing when we first heard-saw the 911 events.

And just because the authors were anonymous at first and later were named to each book based on tradition doesn't mean they actually were written by those authors or even eye-witnesses accounts.

For most of the books of the NT we have good traditions to rely on who wrote them.

 

And our recollections of the events do change. It's a fact. Even with extraordinary events the memory gets skewed and altered. I remember where I was, but if you would ask me which ones of the kids sitting in the sofa, I couldn't tell you.

I agree we may miss minor details but the major event itself we don't forget. I can still remember clearly what i was doing and who i talked to. This is significant for the gospel accounts. If people witnesses Jesus raising someone from the dead (which is extraordinary) most people who saw this happen would never forget it all their lives. This helped them to remember what he did and taught. Secondly, it would also not be unreasonable to think that some of them wrote down what he taught.

 

But those aspects apart, the Gospel stories to read more like a fiction story than real observed events.

Actually there is a lot of historical content in the gospels. Consider this:

"For the New Testament, Dr. G.R. Habermas points out that within 110 years of Christ's crucifixion, approximately eighteen non-Christian sources mention more than "one hundred facts, beliefs, and teachings from the life of Christ and early Christendom. These items, I might add, mention almost every major detail of Jesus' life, including miracles, the Resurrection, and His claims to deity." [4] Sir William Ramsey, one of the greatest archeologists to ever live, demonstrated that Luke made no mistakes in references to 32 countries, 54 cities, and 9 islands.

 

Liberal scholars used to argue that a town named Nazareth didn't exist at the time of Jesus, until archaeology of the last few decades confirmed its existence. The Gospel's portrayals of the temple, Pilate's court, Jesus' crown of thorns, and the mode of His execution have all also been confirmed. The list could go on and on.

 

The historical evidence clearly shows that the Bible is a reliable historical document."

[Ouroboros]

Do you ask the same questions when you read secular ancient historical accounts?

Yes, I do. I'm a critical reader. I don't assume stories to be true. I judge them based on probability, and even if I accept something as probable true, and there is some later counter argument or evidence, I would change my view.

[Guest amazed]

1- Near death expierences

 

unconvincing pseudoscience, about as reliable as homeopathy and dowsing, and as believable as a Bigfoot nut or Scientologist.

 

 

2- The Scriptures say there is

 

 

I know what they say and could not care less. I consider this proof of something about as much as you consider the Koran as proof of something.

 

 

3-i know we are more than meat machines i.e. we are more than our physical bodies. The concept that we have a personal identity that is not directly related to our physical bodies.

 

You know no such thing, this is opinion and bald assertion. There are other explanations, and even if we had none it wouldn't make this one correct.

 

 

 

4- the mind- not to be confused with the brain.

 

 

they are the same thing as far as I can see.

If you are an atheist then you are a meat machine i.e. no soul or anything immaterial. Correct?

Secondly, the mind and the brain are 2 different things.

[Ouroboros]

During the early centuries when the plague struck the Roman empire it was the christians who for the most part ministered to those who were sick at great risk to themselves. I think it was Pliny the Younger who commented how amazed he was at this.

Do you have a quote for that? The quote I find says, "So I postponed my inquiry to consult you. The matter seemed worth your attention, especially since the number of those slipping is great. Many people of all ages and classes and of both sexes are now being enticed into mortal peril and will be in the future. The superstition has spread like the plague, not only in the cities but in the villages and the countryside as well. I feel it must be stopped and checked." And who was he writing about? The Christians.

[Kuroikaze]

Lets take the movie the "300". I hope you have seen it because it is based on a historical account. These 300 spartan soldiers did what is impossible i.e. the held off an army thousands for quite some time. Would you think this event is hearsay also since it borders on the impossible?

 

I have not seen the movie, but I know the historical account.

 

The movie is useless anyway since it takes a lot of liberties with the story to the point of totally inaccuracy

 

I do not find the story as unbelievable as you do though, 300 Spartans, 700 Thespians, 400 Thebans and perhaps a few hundred others were defending a narrow canyon where the enemy could not come at them in great numbers, they did so for a short amount of time and eventually most were killed. This seems like a fairly reasonable story. The movie makes it sound much more unbelievable than it was, but that is what you get by trusting your historical knowledge to Hollywood.

 

Of course it might not have happened or may have been embellished somewhat. Perhaps the army was smaller. We have a limited amount of information about this, but it is still not a nearly as unbelievable as many of the stories in the bible.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Thermopylae read it, and learn real history, not spoon fed Hollywood dribble.

[bdp]

 

"For the New Testament, Dr. G.R. Habermas

 

BINGO!

[Kuroikaze]

If you are an atheist then you are a meat machine i.e. no soul or anything immaterial. Correct?

Secondly, the mind and the brain are 2 different things.

 

I would not put it in quite such a humorous way but close enough. I do not have a problem with that, as I decide for myself what my purpose is, I do not need to be handed one by the cosmos or god.

 

The mind is a function of the brain, and until someone can present evidence otherwise I will continue to believe it is so.