The Good News

[Amanda]

The screen is blank -- only whiteness.

 

And then -- in the background and everyone realizes that all the sin has been washed away and the tapes are all blank --

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hello Mad Gerbil!

 

Most seem to already know you here, and I'm glad to make your aquaintance.

 

That is a pretty amazing skit, IMO. When people carry around a lot of guilt, rather it is real or not... because to them it is real... it is nice to see it washed away, given another chance to forgive yourself and start fresh in learning what is right and acceptable that one can live with in themself.

 

Sure, sex is not wrong. If one approaches it like a kid in a candy store... it loses its meaning, don't you think? If it is approached with the discernment of sophistication, like gourmet desert after a fine dinner, then it seems to have a special, more meaningful impact on one's life. It is hard to put the great deserved value on one's self if one has a feeling of unworthiness for a few mistakes made in life. MG, I say let her feel the relief of forgiveness and start anew. I think that they could of done away with the song at the end, but hey... no big deal I guess. Great ending. Lovely story. IMHO.

[Guest aexapo]

She didn't view any of the other tapes -- the implication is they are all blank and that she was reviewing them herself and not at the command of G_d.

 

The church my brother attends has a large staff of artists and thespians so they are always doing skits like this -- the whole thing seems so secular but the message they present is so strong that I find myself wishing I lived close enough to attend there.  After only hearing of the skit I cried -- if I'd have seen it live I'd of been a mess.

 

-------------------------

 

Another favorite skit of mine is where they gave each person in the audience a rock and a scroll and a pen.  They then did a skit where they had the woman caught in adultery up on stage and the person playing Christ looks out over the audience and asks each person to record something they've done wrong for which they want forgiveness.  In order to do that people all over the auditorium had to drop the rocks in order to write -- so you could hear rocks falling to the floor all over the auditorium -- the message being that we cannot get forgiveness ourselves when we are carrying rocks to stone another.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

They all sound nice and sweet, kinda like something out of the "Footprints in the Sand" book of plays. Or those emails we all get from Xian family and friends who think an anecdotal story will convert us en masse.

 

I still don't know how Christians in general, those who think that most all Christians who "accept Christ" are saved, get to choose what the bad things are -- the "sins." They'll say it's in the Bible, but they all disagree on the specifics. They even disagree on the "biggies" -- like birth control and adultery. For some faiths, adultery is sex with someone other than your legal spouse, while with more legalistic faiths, it's sex with anyone other than your FIRST spouse. Some churches are even doubting that homosexuality is a sin . . . but, hasn't Christianity always morphed itself to keep itself relevant with changing times? You aren't executing scientists or philosophers anymore . . . so, there's been some progress.

 

Perhaps if God is real, then maybe he doesn't change. But history proves that YOUR perception (you -- being the Christians) of him has changed throughout time, and so have the rules and regulations that go along with "serving him." So, the real question is -- if Christians can't agree on Christianity, and Christianity has evolved so much over time, why is exactly that we should take your word that he exists?

[Mad_Gerbil]

Hello Mad Gerbil!

 

Most seem to already know you here, and I'm glad to make your aquaintance.

 

That is a pretty amazing skit, IMO. When people carry around a lot of guilt, rather it is real or not... because to them it is real... it is nice to see it washed away, given another chance to forgive yourself and start fresh in learning what is right and acceptable that one can live with in themself.

 

Sure, sex is not wrong. If one approaches it like a kid in a candy store... it loses its meaning, don't you think? If it is approached with the discernment of sophistication, like gourmet desert after a fine dinner, then it seems to have a special, more meaningful impact on one's life. It is hard to put the great deserved value on one's self if one has a feeling of unworthiness for a few mistakes made in life. MG, I say let her feel the relief of forgiveness and start anew.  I think that they could of done away with the song at the end, but hey... no big deal I guess. Great ending. Lovely story. IMHO.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

That particular church does an excellent job of getting people to look squarely at themselves. I'm a bit envious (*doh*) because it would have been neat to grow up in a church like that.

 

They do stuff all the time where I think to myself "Whoa, now THAT is crossing the line -- you should NOT do that in church" and then suddenly I get hit between the eyes in a way a sermon never could have done.

[Mad_Gerbil]

nice skit, gerbil.

 

But, according to the bible all you have to do is get born to deserve hell.  So, the clips should have started with birth.

 

And of course, there is a laundry list of other sins that could have been in the skit, like lying, and cheating on a test, and wishing you had a new mustang convertible.

 

But of course, the skit is much more interesting when it's about sex, since that's the obsession and irrestible temptation of most christians.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The church is doing a series on sex -- they actually use all the naughty words like 'penis' and 'masturbation' right from the pulpit. They also performed the song 'SledgeHammer' including electric guitars, drums, and backup vocals.

 

It's really weird.

[Amanda]

I still don't know how Christians in general, those who think that most all Christians who "accept Christ" are saved, get to choose what the bad things are -- the "sins."  They'll say it's in the Bible, but they all disagree on the specifics.  They even disagree on the "biggies" -- like birth control and adultery.  For some faiths, adultery is sex with someone other than your legal spouse, while with more legalistic faiths, it's sex with anyone other than your FIRST spouse.  Some churches are even doubting that homosexuality is a sin . . . but, hasn't Christianity always morphed itself to keep itself relevant with changing times?  You aren't executing scientists or philosophers anymore . . . so, there's been some progress.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Aexapo, you've made a very good point. It seems to me that maybe morally, we should only judge ourself, NOT others? I think many judge themselves too harshly, yet at least it only effects them and no one else... hopefully.

[Ouroboros]

The church is doing a series on sex -- they actually use all the naughty words like 'penis' and 'masturbation' right from the pulpit.      They also performed the song 'SledgeHammer' including electric guitars, drums, and backup vocals.

 

It's really weird.

Seems like your Church is trying to adapt to modern times and culture.

 

Maybe they should start encourage reading more philosophy too?

[Ouroboros]

Aexapo, you've made a very good point. It seems to me that maybe morally, we should only judge ourself, NOT others? I think many judge themselves too harshly, yet at least it only effects them and no one else... hopefully.

Isn't the what Jesus said? To not judge others, but only judge yourself?

 

Mat 7:1-5 KJVA  Judge not, that ye be not judged.  (2)  For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.  (3)  And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?  (4)  Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?  (5)  Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

[white_raven23]

Mad Gerbil,

 

I've thought about your description of that little "skit" you mentioned.

 

There's some very cruel manipulation going on there. God makes it clear to this woman that he's witnessed every shameful moment of her life, taped the whole thing, LABELLED the tapes, and then stored them in LABELLED boxes.

 

Then.....when she's upset and angry about being monitored (gee, wonder why), and decides to take one of the most shameful moments and watch it (really a gutsy move if you think about it.....oh wait, forgot who I was talking to), God pretty much goes "Gotcha!" by having the tapes be blank.

 

God likes emotionally cruel practical jokes? Forgive.....but not really forget (only the specific "details" of her supposed crimes were "erased")?

 

Hmmmm.

 

Sounds more like some of the petty jerks I used to know who carried that christian label than any supreme being worthy of being such.

[Alice]

Recently, at the church my brother attends they did a skit:

 

A white trashy kinda of gal takes to the stage which is set up with a whole lot of shelves and boxes. She begins flipping through the boxes and each one is full of 35mm tapes of her life. Her entire life is recorded on 35mm film.

 

At first she isn't upset but as she gets to her teenage years sex tapes start showing up and she starts getting upset....

 

-- the voice of a single soloist is heard....

 

"Amazing grace.. how sweet the sound.. that saved a wretch like me...."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The tune to amazing grace used to tug at my heart strings too (although I always hated the line 'when we've been there ten thousand years ... we've no less days to sing his praise than when we first began' - tedium in the extreme - everlasting choir practice uck!)

 

I once went to a service when the song was reapeated dozens of times along with the preachers comments 'come on - we'll just sing this verse over again - this may be your last chance to respond - there is someone here right now that wants to come forward and recieve Jesus - you know who you are - God is speaking directly to you - this is your chance to stand up now - come into the aisle - or just raise your hand - no one is looking - yes thank you sir - and God is telling me that there is someone else - don't be shy - your salvation rests on this - come forward now - we'll just sing this verse through one more time ...'

 

I kind of went off amazing grace altogether after that.

 

I have struggled for years with aspects of my teenage years that I regret. Until recently that sketch would have gotten to me too. Even now aged forty there are some old wounds that smart from time to time. I remember attending a christian festival where there were some excellent dramas and dances performed. One involved a dance in which a large earthenware pot was smashed to pieces as the finale - during the sermon that followed a single spotlight shone on the dancer who spent the whole time carefully gluing the pot back together.

 

Boy - did I cry that night. I really wanted God to put my broken self esteem and shattered heart back together and I hung on every word that came out of that preachers mouth.

 

 

After only hearing of the skit I cried -- if I'd have seen it live I'd of been a mess.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I hazard a guess that if you and I were to watch a moving film or listen to an evocative piece of music - we'd shed a tear at the same point.

 

How long have you been a christian? I'm guessing a while - why would you have been a mess? Hasn't the forgiveness truth struck home till now? it took this skit? But now you know right - about God's forgiveness, you are never going to be a mess again if someone comes up with a different skit to represent how bad you are and how much God wants to wash you clean right?

 

I've been taught about forgiveness and clean slates and starting a fresh since I was knee high - I've sung about my sins being buried at the bottom of the ocean and how I've 'never ever seen a sin that can swim and his banner over me is love' over and over ...

 

..and yet - still a well timed representation of my wickedness accompanied by stirring music or aesthetically pleasing movements cuts right into the emotional heart of me.

 

Why is that ?

[Ouroboros]

Paul says to judge those inside the church who call themselves a brother but not to judge those outside the church 1 Corinthians 5.  He says that by expeling the immoral brother you are turning him over to satan so that his sinful nature is destroyed.  So see this is a "loving" gesture.  In 2 Corinthians Paul teaches to forgive and allow the brother back in after he has asked forgiveness. Jesus says that if a brother sins against you to take steps, afterwhich, the "brother" still doesn't acknowledge their sin to treat them like a pagan and/or tax collector.  That reference is found in Matthew 18:15-17

 

So judgement inside the church is okay but it isn't okay for a believer to judge unbelievers, those outside the church.  After the steps, you are told not to even associate with those who call themselves a Christian but continue in sin.  So for those of you judgemental Christians who call themselves Christians, you are in direct violation of biblical NT commands.  When you come here juding us, you are in the wrong.  Take your judging back to it's proper place...within the church.

You're right, I forgot about those verses.

 

But the verse I gave didn't exclude anyone or any group, but it did explain that you have to be free from sin to be able to judge, so I guess it's okay to judge, but you have to be completely without any sins. "Ye without sin cast the first stone."

[Amanda]

God likes emotionally cruel practical jokes? Forgive.....but not really forget (only the specific "details" of her supposed crimes were "erased")?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

White Raven, perhaps it is to forget the guilt and condemnation, just remember the lesson.

 

2Co 5:19

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

[Vigile]

The screen is blank -- only whiteness.

 

And then -- in the background and everyone realizes that all the sin has been washed away and the tapes are all blank -- the voice of a single soloist is heard....

 

"Amazing grace.. how sweet the sound.. that saved a wretch like me...."

 

Oh, how sweet, another god saved us from himself story with a little white as snow ending. I didn't see that coming.

 

I've heard you're one of the smart ones MG, hopefully your other posts will prove my sources true.

[Vigile]

I wonder if he whacks off to it...?

 

Did Jesus have a penis. Tell me he didn't wack off.

[white_raven23]

White Raven, perhaps it is to forget the guilt and condemnation, just remember the lesson.

 

 

How can any "lesson" have value or impact to the person learning it without a certain level of guilt?

 

Because surely it's not God learning the lesson?

 

Forgive and forget is ridiculous. You can forgive. But forgetting is pointless else no lesson can really be learned. Without guilt enforcing the lesson, the "sin" just gets repeated again and again. No learning taking place.

[Mad_Gerbil]

Mad Gerbil,

 

I've thought about your description of that little "skit" you mentioned.

 

There's some very cruel manipulation going on there. God makes it clear to this woman that he's witnessed every shameful moment of her life, taped the whole thing, LABELLED the tapes, and then stored them in LABELLED boxes.

 

Then.....when she's upset and angry about being monitored (gee, wonder why), and decides to take one of the most shameful moments and watch it (really a gutsy move if you think about it.....oh wait, forgot who I was talking to), God pretty much goes "Gotcha!" by having the tapes be blank.

 

God likes emotionally cruel practical jokes? Forgive.....but not really forget (only the specific "details" of her supposed crimes were "erased")?

 

Hmmmm.

 

Sounds more like some of the petty jerks I used to know who carried that christian label than any supreme being worthy of being such.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

It really isn't my intent to defend the skit, since any metaphor or skit can be taken the wrong way or over analyzed. I mean, why did G_d use 35mm film when he could have used a DVD -- does he have something against DVDs?

 

I believe the point of the skit is that we often hold ourselves in contempt over things G_d has already forgiven -- the message is to stop torturing oneself when forgiveness is already a done deal.

 

The girl had yet to forgive herself -- the question of G_d forgiving her had already been answered.

[Mad_Gerbil]

Oh, how sweet, another god saved us from himself story with a little white as snow ending.  I didn't see that coming. 

 

I've heard you're one of the smart ones MG, hopefully your other posts will prove my sources true.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm quite sure you'll find me to be an ignorant fundamentalist.

I don't know that, of course, but that is where the smart money rests.

 

[Ouroboros]

It really isn't my intent to defend the skit, since any metaphor or skit can be taken the wrong way or over analyzed.  I mean, why did G_d use 35mm film when he could have used a DVD -- does he have something against DVDs?

Of course he's against DVD. Devils Vicious Deeds. :hehe:

 

I believe the point of the skit is that we often hold ourselves in contempt over things G_d has already forgiven -- the message is to stop torturing oneself when forgiveness is already a done deal.

Ah. Good point. It actually was intented to show that we should not do skits like that to reminds us of that we were forgiven of the things the skit reminded us of... eeeh... did it come out right?

 

The girl had yet to forgive herself -- the question of G_d forgiving her had already been answered.

To change the line of thought a fraction... have God forgiven himself for murdering all those people in the flood?

 

 

**edit**

forgot a "not"

[Mad_Gerbil]

How long have you been a christian? I'm guessing a while - why would you have been a mess? Hasn't the forgiveness truth struck home till now? it took this skit? But now you know right - about God's forgiveness, you are never going to be a mess again if someone comes up with a different skit to represent how bad you are and how much God wants to wash you clean right?

 

I've been taught about forgiveness and clean slates and starting a fresh since I was knee high - I've sung about my sins being buried at the bottom of the ocean and how I've 'never ever seen a sin that can swim and his banner over me is love' over and over ...

 

..and yet  - still a well timed representation of my wickedness accompanied by stirring music or aesthetically pleasing movements cuts right into the emotional heart of me.

 

Why is that ?

 

My wife, after 16 years, still looks at her wedding ring and thanks me for it.

We celebrate our anniversary every year.

 

Some things you just remember -- and the joy can come back to you as fully as the first day you experienced it.

 

I'm challenged every day to allow the past to become more distant.

I enjoy being reminded of it.

[Mad_Gerbil]

Vigile:

 

I find myself watching your avatar with more attention than any decent person should.

 

[Ouroboros]

My wife, after 16 years, still looks at her wedding ring and thanks me for it.

We celebrate our anniversary every year.

Must be quite a ring...

 

We've been married 19 years in January. And we celebrate it every year too.

 

Some things you just remember -- and the joy can come back to you as fully as the first day you experienced it.

And sad things too.

 

I'm challenged every day to allow the past to become more distant.

I enjoy being reminded of it.

Part of growing old... yuk...

[Amanda]

Hi Serenity Now! I hope the sun is finally shining there, as it is finally shining here. We were getting bands of the rain from the hurricane going to Texas!

 

Paul says to judge those inside the church who call themselves a brother but not to judge those outside the church 1 Corinthians 5.  He says that by expeling the immoral brother you are turning him over to satan so that his sinful nature is destroyed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Serenity Now, there is a difference here, IMHO. This 'judging' is NOT condemnation. It is to edify this person, help them to be happier in integrity. So that the whole congregation will be better off too. It is a lot of work to help those that have 'emotional problems' as the person referred to in 1 Corinthians 5, who was sleeping with his father's wife. Giving him over to Satan, an adversary only to our carnal nature and NOT our spirit, is to just let him receive the repercussions of his actions so that he learns this path leads to an anguished state of mind. Once learned, he is still part of the congregation, only risen higher in his spirituality which rises the whole church!

 

1 Corinthians 5

5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? 7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Jesus says that if a brother sins against you to take steps, afterwhich, the "brother" still doesn't acknowledge their sin to treat them like a pagan and/or tax collector.  That reference is found in Matthew 18:15-17

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Matthew 18

15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but * * if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

 

I don't know what else anyone could do here. Yet, I also don't think it is saying to disrespect the heathens or publicans in any way!!! Maybe there is to be a transition to have different expectations from this person who chooses not to adhere to their beliefs. No condemnation of him/her though, just a different recognition.

[Mad_Gerbil]

I hold myself in no contempt of your god, he is cruel and evil and wicked.  Why would I seek forgiveness from such a monster?  He should be asking me for forgiveness, I'm much kinder and loving!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Obviously you shouldn't.

Keep up the good work.

[Mad_Gerbil]

Must be quite a ring...

 

More like quite a wife to still be appreciative.

 

We've been married 19 years in January. And we celebrate it every year too.

 

I thought atheists swapped wives every 5 months?

 

[Mad_Gerbil]

Well so far I've gotten 1 email accusing me of being a chauvanist for posting a story that featured a woman...

 

*sigh*

[Asimov]

Well so far I've gotten 1 email accusing me of being a chauvanist for posting a story that featured a woman...

 

*sigh*

 

Whoever wrote that email is a moron.