What Exactly Do I Believe?

[Shyone]

I'll come back with an update tomorrow.

 

On another note, about beliefs, I had a question come to my mind earlier. Is it possible to not be a Christian (or a member of any other mainstream organized religion) and also at the same time not accept the idea of macroevolution?

For many, evolution has nothing to do with their religious beliefs.

 

That's about it.

 

I'll just stop there.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

I'll come back with an update tomorrow.

 

On another note, about beliefs, I had a question come to my mind earlier. Is it possible to not be a Christian (or a member of any other mainstream organized religion) and also at the same time not accept the idea of macroevolution?

For many, evolution has nothing to do with their religious beliefs.

 

That's about it.

 

I'll just stop there.

 

But both religion and evolution are used to try to fill in the gaps.... without either one, what's left?

[Guest Valk0010]

I'll come back with an update tomorrow.

 

On another note, about beliefs, I had a question come to my mind earlier. Is it possible to not be a Christian (or a member of any other mainstream organized religion) and also at the same time not accept the idea of macroevolution?

For many, evolution has nothing to do with their religious beliefs.

 

That's about it.

 

I'll just stop there.

 

But both religion and evolution are used to try to fill in the gaps.... without either one, what's left?

Create a opinion, or go over to the side of intellegent design(*shivers).

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

I'll come back with an update tomorrow.

 

On another note, about beliefs, I had a question come to my mind earlier. Is it possible to not be a Christian (or a member of any other mainstream organized religion) and also at the same time not accept the idea of macroevolution?

For many, evolution has nothing to do with their religious beliefs.

 

That's about it.

 

I'll just stop there.

 

But both religion and evolution are used to try to fill in the gaps.... without either one, what's left?

Create a opinion, or go over to the side of intellegent design(*shivers).

 

I'm not coming up with my own faulty explanation of why I think things are the way they are. I'm also not denying my mind and accepting stupid arguments about God, using copout answers when approached with obvious flaws in my own beliefs.

[Guest Valk0010]

I'll come back with an update tomorrow.

 

On another note, about beliefs, I had a question come to my mind earlier. Is it possible to not be a Christian (or a member of any other mainstream organized religion) and also at the same time not accept the idea of macroevolution?

For many, evolution has nothing to do with their religious beliefs.

 

That's about it.

 

I'll just stop there.

 

But both religion and evolution are used to try to fill in the gaps.... without either one, what's left?

Create a opinion, or go over to the side of intellegent design(*shivers).

 

I'm not coming up with my own faulty explanation of why I think things are the way they are. I'm also not denying my mind and accepting stupid arguments about God, using copout answers when approached with obvious flaws in my own beliefs.

Then all i can say is, have a open mind, be a skeptic, and come up with your own opinion.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

Eh, it didn't go so well. I prepared something that I wanted to read, and I was ready to do it, yet some invisible force made me not read it, like the pathetic piece of shit I am. They guy was a Christian too, and although he didn't preach at me.... he wasn't as neutral as I preferred. He basically upped my dosage on a medicine that I've already tried, and told me not to read or listen to what triggered the anxious thoughts. Then I asked, wouldn't I have to forsake religion completely to do that? He said that some people who have obsessive thoughts with doubting their salvation who attend churches with very "evangelistic" preaching sometimes have to switch to a more "mild" church. I then asked, is that biblical? He gave his reason why he thought it was, even though it's not. I wish I had said that to his face. I've learned something... and that is that if I'm going to overcome this, I have to do it on my own. I have to muster up whatever strength I have and fight it myself. No drugs, doctors, shrinks, counselors, or gods will do it for me. Fuck it, I'm not going back to any more shrinks. I'll either overcome it myself or fall flat on my face trying.

[lunaticheathen]

Sorry he was a bad shrink. There's a glut of them out there - I was hoping you'd find a good one. I've walked out on so many shrinks, from everything to preaching at me, to pushing pills at me I KNEW were wrong for me, but they wouldn't listen. One bitch told me if I didn't take Effexor (which did horrible things to my mom, and we're a lot alike physically) I would be a failure as a person. I walked out, right then, never went back, even threw away the bill they sent.

We'll be here for you, but really, leaving the religion is always done alone, in reality. No one can do it for you, no one will say the magic thing that makes it perfectly clear. You must work it out for yourself, like everyone else. Some things or people may help, but it's always done by the individual.

We can cheer though.

[Shyone]

That is really disappointing - that your shrink was so misguided, not that you didn't stick by your guns.

 

Was it as worthless as it sounds? If you aren't getting counseling that meets your needs and addresses your problems, then you would be better off changing, but if somehow he manages to make sense, even if he's wrong, then it will give you some reference.

 

Giving advice over the internet is usually more satisfying for the giver rather the recipient, so I'll try and refrain from suggesting you leave this jerk and get a better psychiatrist.

[renoliz]

Eh, it didn't go so well. I prepared something that I wanted to read, and I was ready to do it, yet some invisible force made me not read it, like the pathetic piece of shit I am. They guy was a Christian too, and although he didn't preach at me.... he wasn't as neutral as I preferred. He basically upped my dosage on a medicine that I've already tried, and told me not to read or listen to what triggered the anxious thoughts. Then I asked, wouldn't I have to forsake religion completely to do that? He said that some people who have obsessive thoughts with doubting their salvation who attend churches with very "evangelistic" preaching sometimes have to switch to a more "mild" church. I then asked, is that biblical? He gave his reason why he thought it was, even though it's not. I wish I had said that to his face. I've learned something... and that is that if I'm going to overcome this, I have to do it on my own. I have to muster up whatever strength I have and fight it myself. No drugs, doctors, shrinks, counselors, or gods will do it for me. Fuck it, I'm not going back to any more shrinks. I'll either overcome it myself or fall flat on my face trying.

 

 

Plenty of people have managed to deconvert without seeing a shrink. I don't know you so I am not actually giving you advice.

 

I was very afraid when I left the fundy church. I do not take drugs of any type. Soldiered through it by finding people who were willing to listen, reading up on how bogus the Bible is, reading about how others made it through their faith crises, reading exC. I am fine now. Took awhile.

 

A lot of shrinks suck so don't feel bad about the fact that you couldn't say what you wanted to. Actually, you are the sane one with your doubts about religion. Maybe you should be that psychiatrists shrink. LOL

 

Remember that others have gotten through their religious issues and you can too.

 

Again, not really advice. You know more about you than I do. Seek help from the psychiatric field again if you think that is necessary.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

Sorry he was a bad shrink. There's a glut of them out there - I was hoping you'd find a good one. I've walked out on so many shrinks, from everything to preaching at me, to pushing pills at me I KNEW were wrong for me, but they wouldn't listen. One bitch told me if I didn't take Effexor (which did horrible things to my mom, and we're a lot alike physically) I would be a failure as a person. I walked out, right then, never went back, even threw away the bill they sent.

We'll be here for you, but really, leaving the religion is always done alone, in reality. No one can do it for you, no one will say the magic thing that makes it perfectly clear. You must work it out for yourself, like everyone else. Some things or people may help, but it's always done by the individual.

We can cheer though.

 

Wow, sounds like you've had some not so good experiences with these people.

 

 

That is really disappointing - that your shrink was so misguided, not that you didn't stick by your guns.

 

Was it as worthless as it sounds? If you aren't getting counseling that meets your needs and addresses your problems, then you would be better off changing, but if somehow he manages to make sense, even if he's wrong, then it will give you some reference.

 

Giving advice over the internet is usually more satisfying for the giver rather the recipient, so I'll try and refrain from suggesting you leave this jerk and get a better psychiatrist.

 

This guy didn't actually do any counselling at all, he actually suggested I see a counselor that specialized in OCD. He said he would give me the info for seeing them, but I just said I didn't have much faith that it was going to do any good, and he just said we'd talk about it next time, in a month. I think I'll cancel that appointment.

 

 

 

 

Plenty of people have managed to deconvert without seeing a shrink. I don't know you so I am not actually giving you advice.

 

I was very afraid when I left the fundy church. I do not take drugs of any type. Soldiered through it by finding people who were willing to listen, reading up on how bogus the Bible is, reading about how others made it through their faith crises, reading exC. I am fine now. Took awhile.

 

A lot of shrinks suck so don't feel bad about the fact that you couldn't say what you wanted to. Actually, you are the sane one with your doubts about religion. Maybe you should be that psychiatrists shrink. LOL

 

Remember that others have gotten through their religious issues and you can too.

 

Again, not really advice. You know more about you than I do. Seek help from the psychiatric field again if you think that is necessary.

 

Yeah, I don't really think seeing a shrink is the answer. I'd be fine if I didn't feel like I was in denial. The further I get down the road of deconversion, it seems like the more I start thinking I'm being deceived and attempting to live a lie. I don't think that feeling is ever gonna go away, and I've already figured out in my mind that I cannot be a Christian anymore, even if it is true. So I don't actually know why I think about it, because it's not like I have any chance of being able to go back to Christianity.

[renoliz]

Sorry he was a bad shrink. There's a glut of them out there - I was hoping you'd find a good one. I've walked out on so many shrinks, from everything to preaching at me, to pushing pills at me I KNEW were wrong for me, but they wouldn't listen. One bitch told me if I didn't take Effexor (which did horrible things to my mom, and we're a lot alike physically) I would be a failure as a person. I walked out, right then, never went back, even threw away the bill they sent.

We'll be here for you, but really, leaving the religion is always done alone, in reality. No one can do it for you, no one will say the magic thing that makes it perfectly clear. You must work it out for yourself, like everyone else. Some things or people may help, but it's always done by the individual.

We can cheer though.

 

Wow, sounds like you've had some not so good experiences with these people.

 

 

That is really disappointing - that your shrink was so misguided, not that you didn't stick by your guns.

 

Was it as worthless as it sounds? If you aren't getting counseling that meets your needs and addresses your problems, then you would be better off changing, but if somehow he manages to make sense, even if he's wrong, then it will give you some reference.

 

Giving advice over the internet is usually more satisfying for the giver rather the recipient, so I'll try and refrain from suggesting you leave this jerk and get a better psychiatrist.

 

This guy didn't actually do any counselling at all, he actually suggested I see a counselor that specialized in OCD. He said he would give me the info for seeing them, but I just said I didn't have much faith that it was going to do any good, and he just said we'd talk about it next time, in a month. I think I'll cancel that appointment.

 

 

 

 

Plenty of people have managed to deconvert without seeing a shrink. I don't know you so I am not actually giving you advice.

 

I was very afraid when I left the fundy church. I do not take drugs of any type. Soldiered through it by finding people who were willing to listen, reading up on how bogus the Bible is, reading about how others made it through their faith crises, reading exC. I am fine now. Took awhile.

 

A lot of shrinks suck so don't feel bad about the fact that you couldn't say what you wanted to. Actually, you are the sane one with your doubts about religion. Maybe you should be that psychiatrists shrink. LOL

 

Remember that others have gotten through their religious issues and you can too.

 

Again, not really advice. You know more about you than I do. Seek help from the psychiatric field again if you think that is necessary.

 

Yeah, I don't really think seeing a shrink is the answer. I'd be fine if I didn't feel like I was in denial. The further I get down the road of deconversion, it seems like the more I start thinking I'm being deceived and attempting to live a lie. I don't think that feeling is ever gonna go away, and I've already figured out in my mind that I cannot be a Christian anymore, even if it is true. So I don't actually know why I think about it, because it's not like I have any chance of being able to go back to Christianity.

I don't really like labels. So if the shrink labeled you OCD and it doesn't fit you throw it away. I think when you are deconverting from Evil Biblegod it is common for it to look like you have psychological problems when what you really have is life problems.

 

You are perfectly normal in your feelings at this time from what I have seen of other people deconverting. You now know that you are not a Christian anymore. Holy Crap what am I going to do now? seems like a common dilemna. Keep going there is a light at the end of the tunnel and it is not an on coming train.

 

Since I do not know you personally I will again say this is not really advice. You do what is best for you. Learn about who you really are without the cardboard box of Chritianity surrounding you.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

I don't really like labels. So if the shrink labeled you OCD and it doesn't fit you throw it away. I think when you are deconverting from Evil Biblegod it is common for it to look like you have psychological problems when what you really have is life problems.

 

Maybe. Maybe that's why no meds I've tried worked.

 

You are perfectly normal in your feelings at this time from what I have seen of other people deconverting. You now know that you are not a Christian anymore. Holy Crap what am I going to do now? seems like a common dilemna. Keep going there is a light at the end of the tunnel and it is not an on coming train.

 

Personally, I don't believe there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Not anymore.

Since I do not know you personally I will again say this is not really advice. You do what is best for you. Learn about who you really are without the cardboard box of Chritianity surrounding you.

 

I'm not sure I know who I am.

[renoliz]

I don't really like labels. So if the shrink labeled you OCD and it doesn't fit you throw it away. I think when you are deconverting from Evil Biblegod it is common for it to look like you have psychological problems when what you really have is life problems.

 

Maybe. Maybe that's why no meds I've tried worked.

 

You are perfectly normal in your feelings at this time from what I have seen of other people deconverting. You now know that you are not a Christian anymore. Holy Crap what am I going to do now? seems like a common dilemna. Keep going there is a light at the end of the tunnel and it is not an on coming train.

 

Personally, I don't believe there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Not anymore.

Since I do not know you personally I will again say this is not really advice. You do what is best for you. Learn about who you really are without the cardboard box of Chritianity surrounding you.

 

I'm not sure I know who I am.

 

 

Try to read some of the testimonies of others who have left Chritianity behind. I am reading Leaving th Fold: Testimonies of Former Fundametalists. Lots of people go through what you are feeling. And they made it and they wrote books and articles about it. You can, and you will, get there, too.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

Try to read some of the testimonies of others who have left Chritianity behind. I am reading Leaving th Fold: Testimonies of Former Fundametalists. Lots of people go through what you are feeling. And they made it and they wrote books and articles about it.

 

Yeah, I've read a bunch of them since I started coming here.

You can, and you will, get there, too.

 

I wish that was the case.

[Guest I Love Dog]

[quote name='Perfect Insanity' date='15 July 2010 - 02:24 PM' timestamp='1279167871' post='582863'

 

I wish that was the case.

 

 

Sure it is. It just takes time.

 

Keep reading on this site. Perhaps even write your own story and post it on the Home Page. You'll get lots of comments and help on the Home Page, prolly even more than you get here in the forums.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

Sure it is. It just takes time.

 

Keep reading on this site. Perhaps even write your own story and post it on the Home Page. You'll get lots of comments and help on the Home Page, prolly even more than you get here in the forums.

 

I started to do that once, but... eh. I don't like thinking about my story, much less trying to type it out in detail. I don't know, I'm not good at that kind of thing.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

How can I think for myself when I don't know what to think? How can I know what to think without listening to what everybody else says? How can I lsten to what anyone says and take their word for it when everyone is so divided? How can I look past that division when I don't know who to listen to?

 

I don't know why I'm this depressed. I can't really pinpoint why anymore, all I know is, religion is involved.

[Xerces]

 

You are perfectly normal in your feelings at this time from what I have seen of other people deconverting. You now know that you are not a Christian anymore. Holy Crap what am I going to do now? seems like a common dilemna. Keep going there is a light at the end of the tunnel and it is not an on coming train.

 

Exactly, especially for someone who is really devoted to their religion. The religion weaves itself into us so much into our identity and who we are as a person, that when the time comes, (if it comes) to break free from it, that its as if we're tearing a part out of ourselves. Its completely normal to feel lost and confused, angry, etc.

 

I think Insippity's, (thats my new nick for him)- feelings are perfectly normal considering the sudden realization of everything he thought he knew turning out to be a complete load of shit. Sort of like the Matrix movie, only minus the fake reality part. The cool thing is, that now he can reinvent himself, he can be whoever he wants to be and explore the human experience and not have to apologize for it to some imaginary man above us.

[Xerces]

How can I think for myself when I don't know what to think? How can I know what to think without listening to what everybody else says? How can I lsten to what anyone says and take their word for it when everyone is so divided? How can I look past that division when I don't know who to listen to?

 

I don't know why I'm this depressed. I can't really pinpoint why anymore, all I know is, religion is involved.

 

That is the beauty of free thought, you can think what ever the fuck you want to think.

As for listening to people, always look at the evidence. Even if people are divided the evidence will stick out like a sore thumb.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

I think Insippity's, (thats my new nick for him)- feelings are perfectly normal considering the sudden realization of everything he thought he knew turning out to be a complete load of shit.

 

That's not quite how it happened. It wasn't an instant "oh shit this is not real" moment. It was a long drawn out process of obsessive thoughts, getting crazier and crazier. It was fueling my depression. My over analytical obsessive mind figured out what a mindfuck Christianity is, and I wanted out of it. That's pretty much how it happened. It was never a matter of whether or not it's true. A good part of me still believes in Christianity. I see the issues and problems in it, but I still believe it. I believe it, but I'm not a Christian, and don't want to be. I can't shake the worldview of it, no matter how many problems I see in these beliefs. I'm running from it, but I can't escape it. Because to escape it, I would have to escape from my own mind.

[Xerces]

 

That's not quite how it happened. It wasn't an instant "oh shit this is not real" moment. It was a long drawn out process of obsessive thoughts, getting crazier and crazier. It was fueling my depression. My over analytical obsessive mind figured out what a mindfuck Christianity is, and I wanted out of it. That's pretty much how it happened. It was never a matter of whether or not it's true. A good part of me still believes in Christianity. I see the issues and problems in it, but I still believe it. I believe it, but I'm not a Christian, and don't want to be. I can't shake the worldview of it, no matter how many problems I see in these beliefs. I'm running from it, but I can't escape it. Because to escape it, I would have to escape from my own mind.

 

Sounds a lot like OCD. You may not even need counseling, you might just need medicine to help you help yourself control your racing thoughts.

[renoliz]

I think Insippity's, (thats my new nick for him)- feelings are perfectly normal considering the sudden realization of everything he thought he knew turning out to be a complete load of shit.

 

That's not quite how it happened. It wasn't an instant "oh shit this is not real" moment. It was a long drawn out process of obsessive thoughts, getting crazier and crazier. It was fueling my depression. My over analytical obsessive mind figured out what a mindfuck Christianity is, and I wanted out of it. That's pretty much how it happened. It was never a matter of whether or not it's true. A good part of me still believes in Christianity. I see the issues and problems in it, but I still believe it. I believe it, but I'm not a Christian, and don't want to be. I can't shake the worldview of it, no matter how many problems I see in these beliefs. I'm running from it, but I can't escape it. Because to escape it, I would have to escape from my own mind.

What brand of Christianity have you been involved in? The racing mind and thoughts could be OCD but on the other hand it could be part of the brainwashing you have recieved. You may think that hell, demons, satan are real. I thought that hell was a myth by the time I left but I was afraid anyway when I left the fundy church. So, I didn't believe in hell like Pastor Butthead preached and yet I was afraid. My logical side was was doing battle with my emotional side. It was a rough time period for me. I had panic attacks and nightmares. I am fine now.

 

 

Many peaople do not have an Oh Shit moment but have a gradually emerging sense that the Christianity they have been involved is a total mindfuck as you say. Many times Christianity is very abusive towards people. The preachers and the message totally fuck with you. When I left the fundy church and I was only involved in fundyism for a few years, several very sincere but utterly misguided people told me Hubby and I were leaving because we wanted to live immoral lives and that this was Satan out to get us. We left anyway. But it felt so scary.

 

You may still want to consider counseling but in the meantime I am going to make a few suggestions. These are based on my overcoming childhood abuse and spousal abuse. [i was a freaking mess by the time I got out of my relationship with first husband and I had analyzed and thought and read and tried, etc] Try using a technique where you you say to yourself, "Stop, I don't want to think this way." Then "I am not an idiot" [whatever negative thing it is]. The reason you say stop to yourself is it interrupts the flow of thought. Then say something nice to yourself. "I can get through this, other people have" Start filling your brain up with inspirational stuff. Maybe write some saying down in a notebeook. I still use "When the going gets tough, the tough get going" also "I can do this." There are certainly other sayings available. How about "the journey of a thousand steps begins with just one" or Two steps forward, one step back. Just keep going."

 

What I always remember from when I was so confused and down and depressed was that most people who are depressed really just want their lives to change. So, change your life even though it isn't easy. The payoff in the bigger picture is worth all the effort now. So, when you feel depressed ask yourself what do I need to change. Then work in small steps towards that goal.

 

I still say that Christianity is like the hare Krishnas, it is brainwashing. Read up a little on brainwashing and how to overcome it. Ther is info on cults and brainwashing on the internet. Maybe go to the Orange Papers.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

What brand of Christianity have you been involved in? The racing mind and thoughts could be OCD but on the other hand it could be part of the brainwashing you have recieved.

 

That's not an easy question to answer. The type of Christianity I was brought up in doesn't have much at all to do with my brainwashing. I was brought up Southern Baptist, and I said the sinner's prayer as a kid, "got saved", baptized later, and all that jazz. I believed it, but I was just a kid, so I didn't take religion as seriously as I did when I got older. I had trouble off and on for many years with doubting my salvation, I can't tell you how many times I tried to "get saved". Some confessions were public, some were private, but regardless, I never got that assurance. When I got older, in my early/mid teens, I decided I was going to nail it down and fully dedicate my life to God. When I say that, I'm not implying that I lived as a perfect Christian, far from it. I probably had more failures than I did accomplishments. But, regardless of my insecurities and failures, I mean it when I say I decided to really get serious about the things of God. I didn't want to be some lukewarm half-assed failure of a Christian, I wanted to be the real thing. I prayed a lot, I read the Bible, I went to church, I tried to do everything I knew to do. I started reading a lot online about religious things. I started out with a fundy anti-everything website, with Independent Fundamental Baptist type beliefs. I read page after page after page from that website, for a long time. It started making me depressed, but I still kept doing it. I started really analyzing my life and everything I did, and I started giving stuff up. I don't remember the order or way it happened, but it started with things like whether or not I should be reading modern Bible translations (in other words, anything except the KJV), whether or not certain styles of music were "of the devil" (in other words, anything other than old church hymns), and typical things like that. The way the pattern worked was, I would come across one thing, really analyze it, obsess over "is _____ a sin?", then realize that the fact that I was even questioning it meant it was a sin for me (Romans 14), then I would fight it in my head for a long time, feeling like it was conviction from God, (when now that I look back I see it was probably OCD related) praying for an answer, never coming to one, looking over all the arguments, both from people who say _____ is a sin and people who say _____ is not a sin, both sides giving good arguments, confusing me further, then I would eventually just give _____ up for God, and afterwards very briefly feeling a bit relief from not having to worry about it anymore..... Then, immediately afterwards, I would come across some other thing, and the pattern would start all over. That kept on and on and on for a long time, and I was starting to get crazier with the things I was questioning. I started questioning stupid things like, is it a sin to wear modern/casual (modest) clothing, is it a sin to own a dog of a mixed breed (based on a verse from the Old Testament), is it a sin to own a truck or do anything masculine, is it a sin to want to be with a physically attractive woman, is it a sin for women to even be attractive, etc. It kept getting more and more insane. To an extent I leaned towards IFB beliefs, based on a lot of what I read, but then I started watching videos on YouTube.... of one guy in particular. This guy's videos messed me up, bad. Even now, when I even think about going on his channel, I almost panic. This guy's teachings were almost cult-like.... yet, the scary thing is, they were, and still are, some of the most biblical (New Testament wise, anyway) teachings I had ever heard. I already had all the anxiety about giving things up and all that, and watching these videos made that even worse.... and on top of that, now I had to stress and worry about there being no such thing as eternal security. This is a long, complicated story, I can't even begin to explain it in detail. Besides that, I also read and watched a lot of things that had to do with the illuminati and the occult.... and how owning certain things gave demons rights into your life, how this all ties in with music, and everything else.... Some of this info came from convincing testimonies, some of it came from other things. I remember watching a long documentary on how demons are all over rock music. I just... I don't know, I'll just say, I've heard and seen too much just to explain it away. I have a strong belief in the supernatural, in a very bad way, and I don't think that phobia can be shaken. That's just a short version of how things went down, trying fit in all the details just makes my head hurt. The moral of the story: I put the "mental" in "fundementalist".

 

You may think that hell, demons, satan are real. I thought that hell was a myth by the time I left but I was afraid anyway when I left the fundy church. So, I didn't believe in hell like Pastor Butthead preached and yet I was afraid. My logical side was was doing battle with my emotional side. It was a rough time period for me. I had panic attacks and nightmares. I am fine now.

 

That's a rough thing to go through.

 

 

Many peaople do not have an Oh Shit moment but have a gradually emerging sense that the Christianity they have been involved is a total mindfuck as you say. Many times Christianity is very abusive towards people. The preachers and the message totally fuck with you. When I left the fundy church and I was only involved in fundyism for a few years, several very sincere but utterly misguided people told me Hubby and I were leaving because we wanted to live immoral lives and that this was Satan out to get us. We left anyway. But it felt so scary.

 

Some Christians (the "real" ones) can be some of the biggest assholes I've ever seen.

 

You may still want to consider counseling but in the meantime I am going to make a few suggestions. These are based on my overcoming childhood abuse and spousal abuse. [i was a freaking mess by the time I got out of my relationship with first husband and I had analyzed and thought and read and tried, etc] Try using a technique where you you say to yourself, "Stop, I don't want to think this way." Then "I am not an idiot" [whatever negative thing it is]. The reason you say stop to yourself is it interrupts the flow of thought. Then say something nice to yourself. "I can get through this, other people have" Start filling your brain up with inspirational stuff. Maybe write some saying down in a notebeook. I still use "When the going gets tough, the tough get going" also "I can do this." There are certainly other sayings available. How about "the journey of a thousand steps begins with just one" or Two steps forward, one step back. Just keep going."

 

I'll give it a shot. But I don't think it will do much good, because even when I'm saying "This thing is a mindfuck. I have to get out of it for the sake of my own sanity." with my mouth, my brain is telling me "You're in denial. You're running from God. You know the Bible is true, and you're a fool for running."

 

What I always remember from when I was so confused and down and depressed was that most people who are depressed really just want their lives to change. So, change your life even though it isn't easy. The payoff in the bigger picture is worth all the effort now. So, when you feel depressed ask yourself what do I need to change. Then work in small steps towards that goal.

 

I know without a doubt, I need to make some majorly drastic changes in my life. But I keep failing at doing so.

 

I still say that Christianity is like the hare Krishnas, it is brainwashing. Read up a little on brainwashing and how to overcome it. Ther is info on cults and brainwashing on the internet. Maybe go to the Orange Papers.

 

Hmm.....

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

 

That's not quite how it happened. It wasn't an instant "oh shit this is not real" moment. It was a long drawn out process of obsessive thoughts, getting crazier and crazier. It was fueling my depression. My over analytical obsessive mind figured out what a mindfuck Christianity is, and I wanted out of it. That's pretty much how it happened. It was never a matter of whether or not it's true. A good part of me still believes in Christianity. I see the issues and problems in it, but I still believe it. I believe it, but I'm not a Christian, and don't want to be. I can't shake the worldview of it, no matter how many problems I see in these beliefs. I'm running from it, but I can't escape it. Because to escape it, I would have to escape from my own mind.

 

Sounds a lot like OCD. You may not even need counseling, you might just need medicine to help you help yourself control your racing thoughts.

 

I've been on three, and the shrink I saw just upped my dosage on one that I've already tried. I don't believe meds are the answer. When I was dealing with all this as a Christian, I talked my heart out to different people seeking help and advice, mostly my youth pastor. Everybody I talked to, including a Christian counselor, my family, everybody, thought something was wrong with ME for seeing Christianity the way I do, and that I needed to be on medicine to fix it. The reality is, nothing was wrong with me (other than being a bit obsessive and analytical), it was the religion that was the problem, and they just wouldn't, and still won't, admit it. I refused it a lot at first, thinking, taking this medicine will just kill my faith in God, I need to depend on him to heal me. I did for a long time, but I just kept getting worse and worse. I told them, this medicine won't solve the problem, the problem is rooted in religion, the medicine, at best, will do nothing but mask the real problem. It didn't even mask it. Three different meds later, with no improvement whatsoever, I proved myself right.

[Shyone]

This guy's teachings were almost cult-like.... yet, the scary thing is, they were, and still are, some of the most biblical (New Testament wise, anyway) teachings I had ever heard.

 

One teeny-weeny comment.

 

Christianity is a cult that has matured into respectability, and the New Testament still reflects the absolute obedience expected, extreme fear that people should have, and a recipe for isolating yourself from friends and family by latching onto the teachings of the anonymous writers.

 

The love stuff? That's in there. It's the bait, and hell is the trap.

 

Fictional bait, fictional trap, and it's as cultish as you can get.