What Exactly Do I Believe?

[PaulQ]

I do not believe that life could exist without a creator.

 

I must admit that I did not read through pages and pages of posts, so forgive me if the answer I provide to this has already been submitted. Or not, because I really don't need anyone's forgiveness. I digress.

 

Each and every one of us exist because we had a creator. In fact, we had two creators. Our parents. One male and one female, each knowingly (or unknowingly) providing the genetic material necessary for each of our individual existence. They were created by their parents. Them, by their parents. And so on, and so forth. The concept is so simple, I don't understand why it escapes our (collective) understanding. I suspect it's because most people will brush off and ignore such a statement, and not read on. I implore that you do, because there is more depth to this than you might imagine.

 

I know what you're thinking: "But who created the creators?" We usually know who created our parents, and often know who created them and even their creators, but after that things tend to get a little muddy for most of us. Even for the most established family tree, there exists some point where the lineage fades off into obscurity. At this point, we're left with some very limited scientific evidence, and a lot of fanciful imagination.

 

Based on the truths of our limited scientific knowledge, we can reasonably assume that, at the point where our knowledge of our lineage tapers off, there existed some sort of transition where merely existing was more important than retaining the lineage of that existence. Our ancestors did what was necessary to continue existence; that, at an even more distant point, existence was more important than the consciousness of that existence. At some point, merely existing becomes a fundamental truth to the nature of the universe, and our consciousness is built on that nucleus. We must then accept that the very existence of life is as fundamental as the existence of the elements that make up the periodic table. Our lack of recognizing this is likely due to the fact that we incorrectly assume that life is more complex than it really is. Our consciousness is built upon many layers of that nucleus of existence, which is the parent of us all.

 

Ultimately, each and every one of us is the manifestation of those thousands of years of procreation, dating back to the simple natural fundamental functions of various matters and energies of our universe. While we impress ourselves with our insights, we are not yet as great as we imagine. In spite of this, we are the manifestations of our ancestors; by that virtue, we are our own creators. While we do not retain their memories or thoughts, we are the products of their efforts. While our consciousness belongs to each and every one of us individually, we do not exist merely because of conscious thought alone. The nucleus of existence lives within us all.

 

I hope this helps in your own understanding of my atheistic, secular ways.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

I do not believe that life could exist without a creator.

 

I must admit that I did not read through pages and pages of posts, so forgive me if the answer I provide to this has already been submitted. Or not, because I really don't need anyone's forgiveness. I digress.

 

Each and every one of us exist because we had a creator. In fact, we had two creators. Our parents. One male and one female, each knowingly (or unknowingly) providing the genetic material necessary for each of our individual existence. They were created by their parents. Them, by their parents. And so on, and so forth. The concept is so simple, I don't understand why it escapes our (collective) understanding. I suspect it's because most people will brush off and ignore such a statement, and not read on. I implore that you do, because there is more depth to this than you might imagine.

 

I know what you're thinking: "But who created the creators?" We usually know who created our parents, and often know who created them and even their creators, but after that things tend to get a little muddy for most of us. Even for the most established family tree, there exists some point where the lineage fades off into obscurity. At this point, we're left with some very limited scientific evidence, and a lot of fanciful imagination.

 

Based on the truths of our limited scientific knowledge, we can reasonably assume that, at the point where our knowledge of our lineage tapers off, there existed some sort of transition where merely existing was more important than retaining the lineage of that existence. Our ancestors did what was necessary to continue existence; that, at an even more distant point, existence was more important than the consciousness of that existence. At some point, merely existing becomes a fundamental truth to the nature of the universe, and our consciousness is built on that nucleus. We must then accept that the very existence of life is as fundamental as the existence of the elements that make up the periodic table. Our lack of recognizing this is likely due to the fact that we incorrectly assume that life is more complex than it really is. Our consciousness is built upon many layers of that nucleus of existence, which is the parent of us all.

 

Ultimately, each and every one of us is the manifestation of those thousands of years of procreation, dating back to the simple natural fundamental functions of various matters and energies of our universe. While we impress ourselves with our insights, we are not yet as great as we imagine. In spite of this, we are the manifestations of our ancestors; by that virtue, we are our own creators. While we do not retain their memories or thoughts, we are the products of their efforts. While our consciousness belongs to each and every one of us individually, we do not exist merely because of conscious thought alone. The nucleus of existence lives within us all.

 

I hope this helps in your own understanding of my atheistic, secular ways.

 

I'm sorry, but that still doesn't answer the question. The origin of life may be a mystery, but it's either possible or it's not. Until I figure out how life without a god is even possible, I can't just fake it and say "I don't believe in God" because I would be lying. I'm not that stupid. So far, it seems impossible for life to begin without something there to start the process, no matter what fancy scientific terms are being used to explain it.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

I'd better back off from posting about my struggles. My insecurities are bait for all the Super Christians who come in here and act like judgemental assholes, and they probably assume everybody is as weak minded and insecure as me. Which is a load of shit. These assholes (I'm not talking about all Christians, just some of them) just can't accept that some people genuinely lose their faith, and that not everybody believes the same as they do. When I read some of their posts throughout the forums, it really pisses me off how they treat people. Arrogant, insensitive, judgemental, closed minded, sometimes outright hateful posts. People who are willing to stretch the truth about other people, just so they don't lose the security of their own faith.... To any of those kinds of people who might be reading this..... Nice job, fucktards. All you've done is show me why I wouldn't touch Christianity with a ten foot pole. Jesus would be proud.

[Shyone]

I'd better back off from posting about my struggles. My insecurities are bait for all the Super Christians who come in here and act like judgemental assholes, and they probably assume everybody is as weak minded and insecure as me. Which is a load of shit. These assholes (I'm not talking about all Christians, just some of them) just can't accept that some people genuinely lose their faith, and that not everybody believes the same as they do. When I read some of their posts throughout the forums, it really pisses me off how they treat people. Arrogant, insensitive, judgemental, closed minded, sometimes outright hateful posts. People who are willing to stretch the truth about other people, just so they don't lose the security of their own faith.... To any of those kinds of people who might be reading this..... Nice job, fucktards. All you've done is show me why I wouldn't touch Christianity with a ten foot pole. Jesus would be proud.

Quite frankly, I see you doing better than holding your own. Your posts in other forums are spot on, concise and enjoyable (for me) to read.

 

I think you have a talent for engaging them, and your insight is fresh. I know pretty much what most people on this forum will say, so your posts are real gems to read.

[Deva]

I'd better back off from posting about my struggles. My insecurities are bait for all the Super Christians who come in here and act like judgemental assholes, and they probably assume everybody is as weak minded and insecure as me. Which is a load of shit. These assholes (I'm not talking about all Christians, just some of them) just can't accept that some people genuinely lose their faith, and that not everybody believes the same as they do. When I read some of their posts throughout the forums, it really pisses me off how they treat people. Arrogant, insensitive, judgemental, closed minded, sometimes outright hateful posts. People who are willing to stretch the truth about other people, just so they don't lose the security of their own faith.... To any of those kinds of people who might be reading this..... Nice job, fucktards. All you've done is show me why I wouldn't touch Christianity with a ten foot pole. Jesus would be proud.

 

Yes, welcome to the forums. We have an influx of xians right now. Folks who think they know how we feel and think. They know it better than we do!

 

"All you've done is show me why I wouldn't touch Christianity with a ten foot pole." - That is absolutely right.

 

All this doesn't mean you need to back down with posting your own story.

[florduh]

So far, it seems impossible for life to begin without something there to start the process, no matter what fancy scientific terms are being used to explain it.

So that's what you believe at this point. You have answered your question. You may stop torturing yourself now.

[PaulQ]

I'm sorry, but that still doesn't answer the question. The origin of life may be a mystery, but it's either possible or it's not. Until I figure out how life without a god is even possible, I can't just fake it and say "I don't believe in God" because I would be lying. I'm not that stupid. So far, it seems impossible for life to begin without something there to start the process, no matter what fancy scientific terms are being used to explain it.

 

The problem is that you assume there needed to be something to start the process, when there exists absolutely no reason to make such an assumption besides human arrogance. It's similar to assuming the earth is the center of the universe, and then try to work out your understanding of the stars, sun, moons and planets from there. If you start out with a faulty presumption, the understanding becomes increasingly limited, which means you have to default to the "God" position as long as you maintain your initial faulty assumption.

 

We start by clearing our minds of our assumptions, and examine the world around us. We see that matter and energy cannot be created nor destroyed, only changed from one state to another. The law of conservation of matter and energy has been around for quite some time, and has yet to be disproved. Therefore, one can logically conclude that the matter and energy of which the universe consists must also exist infinitely. That which exists infinitely needs no creator, because it simply just is.

 

While our understanding of the nature of the existence of matter and energy is relatively simple, how it interacts and changes under varying conditions is still largely a mystery. Based on our limited understanding, we see there is structure and rules to how matter and energy behaves, and these appear to be very consistent. For example, the law of gravity. Another example, the fairly large magnitude of the laws that govern electricity and magnetism. We can then assume that these traits also exist infinitely; that gravity isn't going away anytime soon, and opposite poles will continue to attract indefinitely. Life falls within the realm of these rules. Our minds are capable of understanding the simpler ones, like how hydrogen and oxygen molecules combine to cause a water molecule. Life is more complex, but the assumption that the laws of the universe that cause life to exist where conditions are favourable exist as infinitely as all matter, energy, and the laws that govern that matter and energy is the correct one.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

Quite frankly, I see you doing better than holding your own. Your posts in other forums are spot on, concise and enjoyable (for me) to read.

 

I think you have a talent for engaging them, and your insight is fresh. I know pretty much what most people on this forum will say, so your posts are real gems to read.

 

Well..... thank you.

 

Yes, welcome to the forums. We have an influx of xians right now. Folks who think they know how we feel and think. They know it better than we do!

 

"All you've done is show me why I wouldn't touch Christianity with a ten foot pole." - That is absolutely right.

 

All this doesn't mean you need to back down with posting your own story.

 

All I'm saying is, expressing my doubts so explicitly as often as I do about my deconversion gives the Christians a reason to think they can do something. If a fundie comes on here and reads any of my posts, that's sure to "confirm" their beliefs for them, and make them think that just because I'm as insecure and fragile as I am about it, that somehow means everybody here is like that, and to make them think that they can come on here and do some "work" on people. That obviously doesn't happen when they actually come on here, but it's still bait for them, and it somehow seems to make them puffed up and prideful.

 

 

So that's what you believe at this point. You have answered your question. You may stop torturing yourself now.

 

Well, yeah, I believe that. But when going from there, it gets much more complicated, so I'm not sure I can stop torturing myself.

 

 

The problem is that you assume there needed to be something to start the process, when there exists absolutely no reason to make such an assumption besides human arrogance. It's similar to assuming the earth is the center of the universe, and then try to work out your understanding of the stars, sun, moons and planets from there. If you start out with a faulty presumption, the understanding becomes increasingly limited, which means you have to default to the "God" position as long as you maintain your initial faulty assumption.

 

We start by clearing our minds of our assumptions, and examine the world around us. We see that matter and energy cannot be created nor destroyed, only changed from one state to another. The law of conservation of matter and energy has been around for quite some time, and has yet to be disproved. Therefore, one can logically conclude that the matter and energy of which the universe consists must also exist infinitely. That which exists infinitely needs no creator, because it simply just is.

 

While our understanding of the nature of the existence of matter and energy is relatively simple, how it interacts and changes under varying conditions is still largely a mystery. Based on our limited understanding, we see there is structure and rules to how matter and energy behaves, and these appear to be very consistent. For example, the law of gravity. Another example, the fairly large magnitude of the laws that govern electricity and magnetism. We can then assume that these traits also exist infinitely; that gravity isn't going away anytime soon, and opposite poles will continue to attract indefinitely. Life falls within the realm of these rules. Our minds are capable of understanding the simpler ones, like how hydrogen and oxygen molecules combine to cause a water molecule. Life is more complex, but the assumption that the laws of the universe that cause life to exist where conditions are favourable exist as infinitely as all matter, energy, and the laws that govern that matter and energy is the correct one.

 

Does that mean that nothing was the cause? If the universe is infinite and always was, there would have to be a reason for that, I would say.

[PaulQ]

Does that mean that nothing was the cause?

 

No, what it means is that there was no cause.

 

If the universe is infinite and always was, there would have to be a reason for that, I would say.

 

Why do you assume that there must be a reason?

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

Does that mean that nothing was the cause?

 

No, what it means is that there was no cause.

 

If the universe is infinite and always was, there would have to be a reason for that, I would say.

 

Why do you assume that there must be a reason?

 

Because if it's here for no reason, with no cause, with no origin.... that's just impossible.

[Kris]

Probably every person who has ever walked the earth that was capable of cognitive thought has questioned how we as a human race came about. This, in large part, is what probably created the myriad of religions and belief systems that we all know about from ancient times to now. But think about this:

 

Isn't it possible that with the universe being as vast as it is, that just the right components landed on our wonderful planet earth, and that they provided the building blocks for life as we now know it. A meteor could have landed that contained just enough organic materials from some other solar system or region that we do not even know about that allowed the evolutionary process to begin-- kind of like how a human starts as just one little cell, and then starts to divide and become more complex. There could be planets in which certain materials don't do much in that environment, but if they hitched a ride to our planet, with the sun and the oxygen, etc. that their chemical compostions might have changed and life began as we know it.

 

Now, we can not go back in time to know that this is true, but I think that the problem that you have is that you only think that God could have done all of this-- I am just asking that you consider the possiblity of random occurance-- this happens all the time in nature, why not with our intitial creation?

[PaulQ]

Because if it's here for no reason, with no cause, with no origin.... that's just impossible.

 

Your inability to comprehend the concept doesn't make it impossible. Magicians perform seemingly impossible feats every day, when in reality it is the perception of the observer that they just witnessed something impossible. Unless you, or anyone else, can come up with evidence indicating the need for a reason, cause, or origin, we must accept the facts as they are. There is no reason to assume there must be a reason, cause, or origin, since it's obvious that the universe, made up of matter and energy, does exist infinitely in ever-changing configurations, following the infinite laws that govern them for no reason other than it just is.

 

Of course, the good news in this is that we, sentient beings made up of the stuff that makes the universe, can attribute whatever meaning we wish to our existence and even to the existence of the universe itself. If you wish to regard yourself as the universe looking in on itself, then you are that.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

Probably every person who has ever walked the earth that was capable of cognitive thought has questioned how we as a human race came about. This, in large part, is what probably created the myriad of religions and belief systems that we all know about from ancient times to now. But think about this:

 

Isn't it possible that with the universe being as vast as it is, that just the right components landed on our wonderful planet earth, and that they provided the building blocks for life as we now know it. A meteor could have landed that contained just enough organic materials from some other solar system or region that we do not even know about that allowed the evolutionary process to begin-- kind of like how a human starts as just one little cell, and then starts to divide and become more complex. There could be planets in which certain materials don't do much in that environment, but if they hitched a ride to our planet, with the sun and the oxygen, etc. that their chemical compostions might have changed and life began as we know it.

 

Now, we can not go back in time to know that this is true, but I think that the problem that you have is that you only think that God could have done all of this-- I am just asking that you consider the possiblity of random occurance-- this happens all the time in nature, why not with our intitial creation?

 

If the cause had to do with something from another solar system, where did that solar system come from? And the one before it?

 

Still, no matter what the case.... To tell you truth, I don't have that kind of faith.

 

 

Your inability to comprehend the concept doesn't make it impossible. Magicians perform seemingly impossible feats every day, when in reality it is the perception of the observer that they just witnessed something impossible. Unless you, or anyone else, can come up with evidence indicating the need for a reason, cause, or origin, we must accept the facts as they are. There is no reason to assume there must be a reason, cause, or origin, since it's obvious that the universe, made up of matter and energy, does exist infinitely in ever-changing configurations, following the infinite laws that govern them for no reason other than it just is.

 

Of course, the good news in this is that we, sentient beings made up of the stuff that makes the universe, can attribute whatever meaning we wish to our existence and even to the existence of the universe itself. If you wish to regard yourself as the universe looking in on itself, then you are that.

 

It must have had a cause, or it wouldn't be here. Whether that cause is some random occurance in nature, God, or something else, it still had/has a cause. Unless something more is out there (pantheism could apply in this case), I see it as impossible for things not having a beginning somewhere a long time ago. And like I said, if there was a beginning, that means there was a time when nothing existed, and if nothing existed, that means something had to come into existence by itself. Either the universe, time, etc. had a beginning, or it didn't. Neither view makes sense to me without a higher power involved. I'm an idiot when it comes to science, but still....

[Shyone]

It must have had a cause, or it wouldn't be here. Whether that cause is some random occurance in nature, God, or something else, it still had/has a cause. Unless something more is out there (pantheism could apply in this case), I see it as impossible for things not having a beginning somewhere a long time ago. And like I said, if there was a beginning, that means there was a time when nothing existed, and if nothing existed, that means something had to come into existence by itself. Either the universe, time, etc. had a beginning, or it didn't. Neither view makes sense to me without a higher power involved. I'm an idiot when it comes to science, but still....

I wonder if maybe universes are plentiful, and they are bubbles in the vacuum of space that expand and fade away leaving a vacuum - to form another universe. Perhaps universes are transient phenomena that happen all the time and always have.

 

Do you think that the empty space existed before the universe? Where and what was god if there was nothing but a vacuum?

 

Assuming a god, what was the idea of all that "other stuff" anyway?

 

The universe is mysterious. Why add mystery on top of mystery?

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

I wonder if maybe universes are plentiful, and they are bubbles in the vacuum of space that expand and fade away leaving a vacuum - to form another universe. Perhaps universes are transient phenomena that happen all the time and always have.

 

Maybe.

 

Do you think that the empty space existed before the universe?

 

I don't have a clue. Trying to picture that is almost like trying to imagine what it would be like being dead.

 

Where and what was god if there was nothing but a vacuum?

 

I don't know.

 

Assuming a god, what was the idea of all that "other stuff" anyway?

 

What do you mean?

 

The universe is mysterious. Why add mystery on top of mystery?

 

I'm not interested in having all the answers, because they're clearly not meant to be known. But I don't want to live in denial of something that I "know" to be true (not saying I do, just saying this for the sake of the argument) and end up blowing it, and if such a place as hell exists, ending up there.

[Guest Valk0010]

I'd better back off from posting about my struggles. My insecurities are bait for all the Super Christians who come in here and act like judgemental assholes, and they probably assume everybody is as weak minded and insecure as me. Which is a load of shit. These assholes (I'm not talking about all Christians, just some of them) just can't accept that some people genuinely lose their faith, and that not everybody believes the same as they do. When I read some of their posts throughout the forums, it really pisses me off how they treat people. Arrogant, insensitive, judgemental, closed minded, sometimes outright hateful posts. People who are willing to stretch the truth about other people, just so they don't lose the security of their own faith.... To any of those kinds of people who might be reading this..... Nice job, fucktards. All you've done is show me why I wouldn't touch Christianity with a ten foot pole. Jesus would be proud.

Quite frankly, I see you doing better than holding your own. Your posts in other forums are spot on, concise and enjoyable (for me) to read.

 

I think you have a talent for engaging them, and your insight is fresh. I know pretty much what most people on this forum will say, so your posts are real gems to read.

+100

[Guest Valk0010]

Talking about purpose sense that is on my mind. I honestly can't see a god caring about cranky valk, when there is people starving in other places, and legitimately suffering.

 

There is a reason i don't believe, it is not even because I know life came without a creator. It is because I can't square this world with a theistic god.

 

I was walking home earlier this evening from the store. And I was thinking about theism and miracles, after seeing a big bus, from the local bible church (that even had people stopped by my house). And well anyway, I was thinking. This world doesn't make sense if there is a theist god. I would expect to see a world like that of moses or jesus, but no I see the world very unmiraculously, though thank nothing, wonderfully.

[Shyone]

Assuming a god, what was the idea of all that "other stuff" anyway?

 

What do you mean?

Oh, I mean like Nebulae, other stars that are ginormous, black holes, quasars... heck, even our other puny 8 (or 7) planets.

 

So much stuff that seems so purposeless. The universe could have been a lot simpler if this were truly a "staging area" for hell.

 

Asteroids? Comets? Moons around Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Pluto? Rings around gas giants...

 

Lots of unnecessary stuff.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

Talking about purpose sense that is on my mind. I honestly can't see a god caring about cranky valk, when there is people starving in other places, and legitimately suffering.

 

There is a reason i don't believe, it is not even because I know life came without a creator. It is because I can't square this world with a theistic god.

 

I was walking home earlier this evening from the store. And I was thinking about theism and miracles, after seeing a big bus, from the local bible church (that even had people stopped by my house). And well anyway, I was thinking. This world doesn't make sense if there is a theist god. I would expect to see a world like that of moses or jesus, but no I see the world very unmiraculously, though thank nothing, wonderfully.

 

I can see what you mean. I'm starting to believe in deistic type of God who doesn't intervene. Because seriously, it doesn't make the slightest amount of sense to say that Jesus helped someone get a parking space, a job, money, or something else, when there are sick, dying, starving people out there that people are praying for, and it's not making any difference.

 

EDIT: But I still don't know. I don't know if I believe in a deistic type God. Ir if I believe in the Christian God. I don't know.

[Guest Valk0010]

Talking about purpose sense that is on my mind. I honestly can't see a god caring about cranky valk, when there is people starving in other places, and legitimately suffering.

 

There is a reason i don't believe, it is not even because I know life came without a creator. It is because I can't square this world with a theistic god.

 

I was walking home earlier this evening from the store. And I was thinking about theism and miracles, after seeing a big bus, from the local bible church (that even had people stopped by my house). And well anyway, I was thinking. This world doesn't make sense if there is a theist god. I would expect to see a world like that of moses or jesus, but no I see the world very unmiraculously, though thank nothing, wonderfully.

 

I can see what you mean. I'm starting to believe in deistic type of God who doesn't intervene. Because seriously, it doesn't make the slightest amount of sense to say that Jesus helped someone get a parking space, a job, money, or something else, when there are sick, dying, starving people out there that people are praying for, and it's not making any difference.

 

EDIT: But I still don't know. I don't know if I believe in a deistic type God. Ir if I believe in the Christian God. I don't know.

christian god is theism, remember that.

 

But just try to make sense of your thoughts, and what you believe.

 

I would also say, that I would think god would have better goals in mind, like stopping famines and droughts then little hearsay miracles or experiences.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

Assuming a god, what was the idea of all that "other stuff" anyway?

 

What do you mean?

Oh, I mean like Nebulae, other stars that are ginormous, black holes, quasars... heck, even our other puny 8 (or 7) planets.

 

So much stuff that seems so purposeless. The universe could have been a lot simpler if this were truly a "staging area" for hell.

 

Asteroids? Comets? Moons around Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Pluto? Rings around gas giants...

 

Lots of unnecessary stuff.

 

Oh. Well, yeah. Good point. That reminds me of one other thing I've thought about. I may have mentioned this before, I don't remember. If the Bible is true and Christianity is the right religion, then that probably means that we're alone in the universe. Which is absurd when you think about it. We're little specks in this huge universe.... there's so much out there, so many planets, stars, galaxies, etc.... and we're expected to think that we're the only ones out there, on this one little planet? Crazy. As you stated, why make all those planets abd everything else for no reason? Doesn't make sense.

 

 

Talking about purpose sense that is on my mind. I honestly can't see a god caring about cranky valk, when there is people starving in other places, and legitimately suffering.

 

There is a reason i don't believe, it is not even because I know life came without a creator. It is because I can't square this world with a theistic god.

 

I was walking home earlier this evening from the store. And I was thinking about theism and miracles, after seeing a big bus, from the local bible church (that even had people stopped by my house). And well anyway, I was thinking. This world doesn't make sense if there is a theist god. I would expect to see a world like that of moses or jesus, but no I see the world very unmiraculously, though thank nothing, wonderfully.

 

I can see what you mean. I'm starting to believe in deistic type of God who doesn't intervene. Because seriously, it doesn't make the slightest amount of sense to say that Jesus helped someone get a parking space, a job, money, or something else, when there are sick, dying, starving people out there that people are praying for, and it's not making any difference.

 

EDIT: But I still don't know. I don't know if I believe in a deistic type God. Ir if I believe in the Christian God. I don't know.

christian god is theism, remember that.

 

But just try to make sense of your thoughts, and what you believe.

 

I would also say, that I would think god would have better goals in mind, like stopping famines and droughts then little hearsay miracles or experiences.

 

But thinking and reason are of the devil! Everybody knows that!

 

Just kidding.

 

Yeah, I'll try to make sense of it all, but it's hard to do when not much makes sense.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

I wish I could move out of this house. I'm sick of picking up the vibe of "If you don't believe the same, you're not normal." I'm sick of having to do these stupid family devotionals, which consist of nothing but reading a chapter of the NT and praying the same prayer every time, which never effects anything. I'm sick of hearing all this crazy religious shit talked about and feeling like if I don't go along with it, something is seriously wrong with me. I'm sick of hearing these damned hypocritical greedy redneck hick televangelists on TV all the time. I'm sick of keeping my mouth shut about it. The only reason I do is because if someone knew half of what I really thought, I would lose their trust, and they would probably be all up in my business, wanting to know every little thing I'm doing, in fear that I'm sinning or something. I'm tired of it. I need to get out of this fucking enviroment.

[Shyone]

I wish I could move out of this house. I'm sick of picking up the vibe of "If you don't believe the same, you're not normal." I'm sick of having to do these stupid family devotionals, which consist of nothing but reading a chapter of the NT and praying the same prayer every time, which never effects anything. I'm sick of hearing all this crazy religious shit talked about and feeling like if I don't go along with it, something is seriously wrong with me. I'm sick of hearing these damned hypocritical greedy redneck hick televangelists on TV all the time. I'm sick of keeping my mouth shut about it. The only reason I do is because if someone knew half of what I really thought, I would lose their trust, and they would probably be all up in my business, wanting to know every little thing I'm doing, in fear that I'm sinning or something. I'm tired of it. I need to get out of this fucking enviroment.

You know that you will leave sometime. Make plans, investigate options, and avoid shooting yourself in the foot (proverbially).

 

It takes some courage to leave the cocoon, but that's life. Don't compromise your ambitions looking for quick and easy solutions; try to maintain perspective.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

I wish I could move out of this house. I'm sick of picking up the vibe of "If you don't believe the same, you're not normal." I'm sick of having to do these stupid family devotionals, which consist of nothing but reading a chapter of the NT and praying the same prayer every time, which never effects anything. I'm sick of hearing all this crazy religious shit talked about and feeling like if I don't go along with it, something is seriously wrong with me. I'm sick of hearing these damned hypocritical greedy redneck hick televangelists on TV all the time. I'm sick of keeping my mouth shut about it. The only reason I do is because if someone knew half of what I really thought, I would lose their trust, and they would probably be all up in my business, wanting to know every little thing I'm doing, in fear that I'm sinning or something. I'm tired of it. I need to get out of this fucking enviroment.

You know that you will leave sometime. Make plans, investigate options, and avoid shooting yourself in the foot (proverbially).

 

It takes some courage to leave the cocoon, but that's life. Don't compromise your ambitions looking for quick and easy solutions; try to maintain perspective.

 

I feel guilty for even saying that. I have better parents than I even deserve, then I turn around and say something like this.... I'm the problem. I hate myself more and more every day. I'm sorry, but I can't quit shooting myself in the foot. I'm a weak, pathetic, insecure, gullible, unstable, failure of a human being. I'm becoming everything I don't want to be. If there is a such thing as the final judgement, I'm going to feel nothing but guilt and shame for everything that I am.... and then I'll have to think about it, be mentally tortured with it for all eternity, aside from the physical torment. A while back in that other thread, I mentioned suicide a few times. But I know deep down that I would never actually do that. Why did I bring that up? What the fuck is wrong with me? Am I nothing more than an attention whore? Consciously or not? What was I really trying to accomplish by mentioning that? What the hell am I doing, what are my motives? I don't even understand myself. Pathetic!

[Shyone]

I wish I could move out of this house. I'm sick of picking up the vibe of "If you don't believe the same, you're not normal." I'm sick of having to do these stupid family devotionals, which consist of nothing but reading a chapter of the NT and praying the same prayer every time, which never effects anything. I'm sick of hearing all this crazy religious shit talked about and feeling like if I don't go along with it, something is seriously wrong with me. I'm sick of hearing these damned hypocritical greedy redneck hick televangelists on TV all the time. I'm sick of keeping my mouth shut about it. The only reason I do is because if someone knew half of what I really thought, I would lose their trust, and they would probably be all up in my business, wanting to know every little thing I'm doing, in fear that I'm sinning or something. I'm tired of it. I need to get out of this fucking enviroment.

You know that you will leave sometime. Make plans, investigate options, and avoid shooting yourself in the foot (proverbially).

 

It takes some courage to leave the cocoon, but that's life. Don't compromise your ambitions looking for quick and easy solutions; try to maintain perspective.

 

I feel guilty for even saying that. I have better parents than I even deserve, then I turn around and say something like this.... I'm the problem. I hate myself more and more every day. I'm sorry, but I can't quit shooting myself in the foot. I'm a weak, pathetic, insecure, gullible, unstable, failure of a human being. I'm becoming everything I don't want to be. If there is a such thing as the final judgement, I'm going to feel nothing but guilt and shame for everything that I am.... and then I'll have to think about it, be mentally tortured with it for all eternity, aside from the physical torment. A while back in that other thread, I mentioned suicide a few times. But I know deep down that I would never actually do that. Why did I bring that up? What the fuck is wrong with me? Am I nothing more than an attention whore? Consciously or not? What was I really trying to accomplish by mentioning that? What the hell am I doing, what are my motives? I don't even understand myself. Pathetic!

Whether your parents are "good" or "bad" you will still need to leave the nest. Perhaps they know this too, and they may even help you.

 

I think you may also be overanalyzing yourself. Worrying about your motives for your motives is probably not helpful.