I Have So Many Questions

[Nara]

I visited this site a few months ago and I even registered an account. However, I showed no compassion to most, if not all the deconverting Christians. I made rude, heartless, and inappropriate comments to people who were genuinely seeking a way out of Christianity. I do apologize for my ignorance. Despite the fact that I am still a Christian, I have many questions about the faith. As a matter of fact, I proclaim with my mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord, but deep down inside I question my very own Christian beliefs. What a hypocrite I have been!!! I preached the gospel so adamantly on this site to that the Webmaster blocked my account.

 

My own sister has been a closet atheist for a year. She has managed to hide her religious views from our immediate family members because she feared rejection. However, she confided in me that she no longer believed in the inerrancy of the bible or the divinity of Jesus. I must add that my sister has been visiting this site for a while, and she attributes her deconversion to the countless testimonials that she read on this site. I was upset when she shared her beliefs with me. I wanted to fast and pray on her behalf and plead with God to save her soul. But, I noticed a change in her behavior-- she didn't blame Satan for her mistakes anymore. She has slowlly begun taking responsibility for her actions as well as her own life. She seems happier than before. She is content, she doesn't carry any guilt for sins (supposedly committed conciously or subconciously),she looks for logical explanations for supernatural occurrences (I call them miracles). From time to time, she thanks God for His mercy and Grace, but she doesn't believe a word of it.

 

Why is she happier than me? I am always looking for approval from my fellow Christians. I am so afraid of backsliding that I have nightmares. I have been reading testimonials from this site; however, the Lord has hold on my life. He has called me to be a prayer warrior. I am just babbling. Lately, I have been having doubts about my beliefs.My sister devoted a lot of time to reading and researching the history of Christianity. I am afraid to venture into such uncertain route... What if I find something that shatters my frail faith.

 

I pretend to be 'have it all under control' so that my brothers and sisters and Christ can be encouraged, but I have failed as a woman of God. I pray powerful and emotional prayers and i can share some mind-shattering testimonies of God's goodness and might. But, why do I feel like there is something wrong? I cannot pinpoint it...it is a gut feeling. What do I do? My God has to be real!!! What about the miracles that he has performed in my own life? There has to be a God!

 

Once again, I apologize to those that I have hurt by my hurtful comments in the past. Please, Help me!!!!

[Ouroboros]

I preached the gospel so adamantly on this site to that the Webmaster blocked my account.

Really?

 

I don't remember you.

 

What was your previous account name?

 

Most of the time, it's either me or Kevin blocking any accounts, and I can't remember who I blocked last...

 

And I tried to match your IP# with any previous member but can't find any match.

 

Are you sure this is the website? I did check a list of banned members, but nothing that stood out, except one.

 

I'm not asking for the purpose of kicking you out again (if that happened), but just to confirm your story. We get a lot of strange people here, and I prefer to to know that people aren't just spoofing and posing.

[Thurisaz]

Some brutal honesty to start it all:

 

Maybe you really mean what you posted here. Maybe you don't. Sadly, you wouldn't be the first one to tell whatever lie you think necessary to deceive some of us back into the cult. However, what the heck... I'm willing to take the risk for the time being.

 

So, some spontaneous comments from me:

 

Why is she happier than me? I am always looking for approval from my fellow Christians.

 

Hmmm. Could that be, deep down below, at the very core of it all, the genuine reason why you became a christian? To, you know, fit in with the one around you? To be part of the community?

 

Lately, I have been having doubts about my beliefs.My sister devoted a lot of time to reading and researching the history of Christianity. I am afraid to venture into such uncertain route... What if I find something that shatters my frail faith.

 

A bit sarcastic I admit:

If your faith is so fragile that reading the wrong book(s) can shatter it, is it even worth maintaining?

 

I pretend to be 'have it all under control' so that my brothers and sisters and Christ can be encouraged, but I have failed as a woman of God.

 

That could also be read as "...but my God has let me down". He's supposed to be all-knowing and almighty isn't he? Why would he put you through all this?

Note: Many christians will try to counter this with the "free will / free choice between god and satan" claim. Unless you want to claim that god is not both all-knowing and the creator of all, however, that claim falls flat on its face. If this god knows literally everything then it knows where everyone will end up even before starting to create him/her.... in other words, whatever you do would be exactly what he deemed fine, or else he would have created you differently.

 

What do I do? My God has to be real!!!

 

Why?

 

What about the miracles that he has performed in my own life? There has to be a God!

 

Or are they miracles? The human mind, whether you claim it to be of Divine origin or not, is far from perfect as we all know. The human potential for self-deception is remarkable. The scientific method, among other things, has been designed to minimize the possible impact of such self-deception... and it works well if applied properly. What if those miracles are also just (normal human) self-deception?

 

Once again, I apologize to those that I have hurt by my hurtful comments in the past. Please, Help me!!!![/size][/font]

 

Well whoever you are, whether you hurt me too by your comments or not... for now I choose to accept your apology as real. Time will tell

[Sybaris]

Perhaps your way of dealing with your perceived failure is to lash out.

 

You should ask your sister why she is happier than you. None of us can speak for her however several reasons might be that she feels liberated from the fear of failure, fear of Hell, fear of judgement and is now content with not needing to know why she is here or what her purpose is. I would also guess that she is comfortable with the fact that when she's dead, that's it, game over. She has no expectations of an afterlife and doesn't feel the need for it. But again, you should ask her yourself.

 

BTW, being afraid to study the history of Christianity doesn't say a lot about the integrity of your faith. Ignoring the facts doesn't make them any less true.

[Shyone]

Part of the problem with Christianity is that for all of the good it promises, it delivers very little. Threats of eternal torture are no way to endear someone to a being that seems so totally absent from our lives.

 

Can you imagine your sister in hell? Would that make heaven more pleasant for you, or would heaven be hell?

 

The doctrine of hell is one of the most damning that the human mind has invented, but it works. Carrot and the stick. What a con, and what a "protection racket." There is no way Hell could be consistent with a god that loves, even if you can convince yourself that those who are destined for hell "chose" to go there simply because they could not believe. What would Christianity be without Hell? Jesus will save you? From what God (Jesus) made? So Jesus is saving you from - Jesus?

 

You were raised or led to believe that some really fantastic things happened that were written in the bible. Other sacred texts are no less miraculous, but you don't believe them. Even though the Roman senate claimed to have seen Augustus Caesar rise bodily into heaven you wouldn't believe it. Mohammed riding a winged horse through the sky? Horse shit. But you believe people that were dead came back to life - like Lazarus. But what then? Did he just die again later?

 

Ever wonder why God never heals amputees? That should give you some pause. It's always those illnesses that could be misdiagnosed, or would get better anyway, or that people never had.

 

Your sister is just taking responsibility for her life without the layers of guilt, fear and dependency that come with Christianity. With one life to live, you can learn, explore and grow.

 

Don't be afraid to read or to learn. If your faith is correct, it should withstand the challenge.

[Astreja]

I noticed a change in her behavior-- she didn't blame Satan for her mistakes anymore. She has slowlly begun taking responsibility for her actions as well as her own life. She seems happier than before.

I think this is the answer you're looking for, Nara. She is happier because she is taking responsibility for her actions. Her actions and her goals have become her own, not subject to the judgment of church elders or the caprices of an invisible man in the sky or in the bowels of the earth.

 

What if I find something that shatters my frail faith.

This may come across as a bit harsh, but of what use to you is a faith that can shatter that easily?

 

But, why do I feel like there is something wrong? I cannot pinpoint it...it is a gut feeling.

Losing faith is very much like mourning a death in the family, or confronting one's own mortality. It's common, and natural, to feel incredulous -- Not necessarily in the sense of overt disbelief; more along the lines of "This can't be happening to me!" Confusion, anger and even depression may be part of the package. This is uncomfortable, but necessary; it's your mind sorting things out, in essence renewing its contract with reality but doing a lot of editing and discarding.

 

What do I do?

At this point, I would say "Take it slow, and don't say or do anything that you won't be able to undo later." You could also try quiet sitting, long walks and generally watching out for things that put physical or mental stresses on you.

[Guest I Love Dog]

In my long and extensive experience or life and of knowing people, I have discovered that religions attract those in need of a crutch and support. On the other hand, it produces people who need a crutch and support.

 

People who are contemplating leaving a religion are often in a dilemma because that crutch will be gone, along with the illusion that there is "someone up there" looking after them, caring for them, someone who will guide them.

 

Once you realize that there is no one up there or out there who is going to manage your life for you then you will develop as a full human being and realize your full potential. While you think there is a heaven or a hell or a god or a devil, then you will be under the influence of the greatest confidence trick ever played on humanity.

 

It is good to know that only 30% of the World's population is party to the Christian movement.

 

Research your religion, research your god(nasty old Yahweh, one of El's 70 imaginary sons), see how illusionary it all is. Leave it all behind you and grow.

[Dezine]

We all want to believe in god, that's why we did in the first place. It's comforting to have that to fall back onto. No need to fear if you know you're protected right? But in the end it's all emotional, it's what we're taught. When you're grasping for anything your going to take anything, and Christianity is not only something it's something with a lot of detailed instructions. Much easier than just figuring out life as you go.

 

Seek god, listen for him. I found that there isn't anyone there. Feelings are tricky, and it's easy to feel like god is doing that or telling you to do this. That's just a product of your belief system, and the things that you have been made to believe. If you pray long enough the things you ask for will usually come about soon or later. Mostly because that's life, stuff happens, things change. But what if they don't? god doesn't want to answer you? Why is he so selective when we were taught to believe for whatever and it would be?

 

If you have more excuses than answers it may be time to rethink where you stand.

[Guest Valk0010]

But, I noticed a change in her behavior-- she didn't blame Satan for her mistakes anymore. She has slowlly begun taking responsibility for her actions as well as her own life. She seems happier than before. She is content, she doesn't carry any guilt for sins (supposedly committed conciously or subconciously),she looks for logical explanations for supernatural occurrences (I call them miracles). From time to time, she thanks God for His mercy and Grace, but she doesn't believe a word of it.

I found myself happier to, I knew i alone was in control. Sin, is a hook for the religion to take a hold in people, and it also gives people something to blame(like the devil as well) for there inadequacies and screw ups. And the worse part is, though issues aren't dealt with.

 

 

Why is she happier than me? I am always looking for approval from my fellow Christians. I am so afraid of backsliding that I have nightmares. I have been reading testimonials from this site; however, the Lord has hold on my life. He has called me to be a prayer warrior. I am just babbling. Lately, I have been having doubts about my beliefs.My sister devoted a lot of time to reading and researching the history of Christianity. I am afraid to venture into such uncertain route... What if I find something that shatters my frail faith.

 

Then you will become like your sister most likely, and it would also probably be a bonding experience. Ask her about stuff about the history of Christianity. One of the great things about leaving religion, is not having what I would consider a constant desire to please or always be right. Your allowed to screw up, and deal in a healthy way, and not just brush it under the rug of jesus forgives. This is a shock to your system. I also firmly believe, that if god wants us all to be saved that, a researching into the histories of Christianity or other philosophies should not harm you faith, it should only make it stronger.

 

I pretend to be 'have it all under control' so that my brothers and sisters and Christ can be encouraged, but I have failed as a woman of God. I pray powerful and emotional prayers and i can share some mind-shattering testimonies of God's goodness and might. But, why do I feel like there is something wrong? I cannot pinpoint it...it is a gut feeling. What do I do? My God has to be real!!! What about the miracles that he has performed in my own life? There has to be a God!

 

Once again, I apologize to those that I have hurt by my hurtful comments in the past. Please, Help me!!!![/size]

Anytime I hear, a has to, about anything. I have to say this, and I will again. Why does there have to be anything. One of the biggest things for me, was going to a church service once and this was after deconverting. And of course I played along, but the strangest thing happened. I felt a little bit of the stuff I used to feel in church but it just felt empty, I saw nothing there, everybody was going, amen and yes lord and all that, and I just felt nothing. I realized then, its all fake, they are working themselves into a frenzy to experience something that isn't there.

 

A miracle really, would have to be a suspension of the laws of nature. In the case you use it in, its a appeal to what you aren't able to comprehend. Like faith, claiming that, is only giving a explanation to what you can't explain(its why religion was developed in the first place.)

[Nara]

I preached the gospel so adamantly on this site to that the Webmaster blocked my account.

Really?

 

I don't remember you.

 

What was your previous account name?

 

Most of the time, it's either me or Kevin blocking any accounts, and I can't remember who I blocked last...

 

And I tried to match your IP# with any previous member but can't find any match.

 

Are you sure this is the website? I did check a list of banned members, but nothing that stood out, except one.

 

I'm not asking for the purpose of kicking you out again (if that happened), but just to confirm your story. We get a lot of strange people here, and I prefer to to know that people aren't just spoofing and posing.

 

I am afraid of being blocked again. I have a new IP address. I used to post on the main blog, not the forum. However, I truly need help. I cannot post on the main blog any longer. However, this time, I have been losing sleep over my religious beliefs.

[Vigile]

I preached the gospel so adamantly on this site to that the Webmaster blocked my account.

Really?

 

I don't remember you.

 

What was your previous account name?

 

Most of the time, it's either me or Kevin blocking any accounts, and I can't remember who I blocked last...

 

And I tried to match your IP# with any previous member but can't find any match.

 

Are you sure this is the website? I did check a list of banned members, but nothing that stood out, except one.

 

I'm not asking for the purpose of kicking you out again (if that happened), but just to confirm your story. We get a lot of strange people here, and I prefer to to know that people aren't just spoofing and posing.

 

I am afraid of being blocked again. I have a new IP address. I used to post on the main blog, not the forum. However, I truly need help. I cannot post on the main blog any longer. However, this time, I have been losing sleep over my religious beliefs.

 

It takes a lot to get blocked here. They hardly ever block anyone so unless you are far worse than some of the very bad trolls we've kept on you need fear nothing.

 

Do you have any specific questions about your beliefs we can help with?

[Ouroboros]

I am afraid of being blocked again. I have a new IP address. I used to post on the main blog, not the forum. However, I truly need help. I cannot post on the main blog any longer. However, this time, I have been losing sleep over my religious beliefs.

Ok. That explains it. I'm not active or deal with the main blog, so I haven't heard about you until now.

 

Whichever moderator you managed to piss of obviously does not want you there. But I will grant you access here as long as you behave considering your need foir help.

[Antlerman]

I visited this site a few months ago and I even registered an account. However, I showed no compassion to most, if not all the deconverting Christians. I made rude, heartless, and inappropriate comments to people who were genuinely seeking a way out of Christianity. I do apologize for my ignorance. Despite the fact that I am still a Christian, I have many questions about the faith. As a matter of fact, I proclaim with my mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord, but deep down inside I question my very own Christian beliefs. What a hypocrite I have been!!! I preached the gospel so adamantly on this site to that the Webmaster blocked my account.

In my experience those who are the most adamant and zealous about having others convert, are those with the most fragile beliefs. They hope that converting someone else, convincing them, is a way to convince themselves. To validate their beliefs so they can feel better about them.

 

"Methinks the lady doth protest too loudly!" has some real meaning, doesn't it?

 

But, I noticed a change in her behavior-- she didn't blame Satan for her mistakes anymore. She has slowlly begun taking responsibility for her actions as well as her own life. She seems happier than before. She is content, she doesn't carry any guilt for sins (supposedly committed conciously or subconciously),she looks for logical explanations for supernatural occurrences (I call them miracles).

I have a saying, "True salvation is salvation from religion." Once you find that you and you alone are responsible, it's true salvation. It's true freedom. Not to sin, but to be responsible. There is no spiritual warfare in the heavens where we are the pawns in some cosmic battle between God and Satan. We all have within us the right to choose, and the power be responsible. Forgive yourself, then live.

 

Why is she happier than me? I am always looking for approval from my fellow Christians. I am so afraid of backsliding that I have nightmares.

This is a religion of fear. Not salvation.

 

I have been reading testimonials from this site; however, the Lord has hold on my life. He has called me to be a prayer warrior.

You're conflating social expectations and identity with your true self, beyond all of that.

 

I am just babbling. Lately, I have been having doubts about my beliefs.My sister devoted a lot of time to reading and researching the history of Christianity. I am afraid to venture into such uncertain route... What if I find something that shatters my frail faith.

I agree with everyone that if you are that frail, there's not much there now. Your fear is that you don't know what to replace it with. Right?

 

I pretend to be 'have it all under control' so that my brothers and sisters and Christ can be encouraged, but I have failed as a woman of God. I pray powerful and emotional prayers and i can share some mind-shattering testimonies of God's goodness and might. But, why do I feel like there is something wrong? I cannot pinpoint it...it is a gut feeling. What do I do? My God has to be real!!! What about the miracles that he has performed in my own life? There has to be a God!

You know, it's not necessarily a choice of Christianity or Atheism. That "something wrong", part, I'd start with looking what isn't ringing true. For starts, don't throw "God" out with the bits of their religion that irks you or violates something within you. You can in a sense, "Free God" from your religion without chucking that baby out with the bathwater. If at some point you feel that any God belief doesn't fit some new philosophy you've adopted, then go with that. But again to quote Shakespeare,

 

"This above all: to thine own self be true, and it must follow, as the night the day, thou canst not then be false to any man."

[Nara]

Some brutal honesty to start it all:

 

Maybe you really mean what you posted here. Maybe you don't. Sadly, you wouldn't be the first one to tell whatever lie you think necessary to deceive some of us back into the cult. However, what the heck... I'm willing to take the risk for the time being.

 

So, some spontaneous comments from me:

 

Why is she happier than me? I am always looking for approval from my fellow Christians.

 

Hmmm. Could that be, deep down below, at the very core of it all, the genuine reason why you became a christian? To, you know, fit in with the one around you? To be part of the community?

 

Lately, I have been having doubts about my beliefs.My sister devoted a lot of time to reading and researching the history of Christianity. I am afraid to venture into such uncertain route... What if I find something that shatters my frail faith.

 

A bit sarcastic I admit:

If your faith is so fragile that reading the wrong book(s) can shatter it, is it even worth maintaining?

 

I pretend to be 'have it all under control' so that my brothers and sisters and Christ can be encouraged, but I have failed as a woman of God.

 

That could also be read as "...but my God has let me down". He's supposed to be all-knowing and almighty isn't he? Why would he put you through all this?

Note: Many christians will try to counter this with the "free will / free choice between god and satan" claim. Unless you want to claim that god is not both all-knowing and the creator of all, however, that claim falls flat on its face. If this god knows literally everything then it knows where everyone will end up even before starting to create him/her.... in other words, whatever you do would be exactly what he deemed fine, or else he would have created you differently.

 

What do I do? My God has to be real!!!

 

Why?

 

What about the miracles that he has performed in my own life? There has to be a God!

 

Or are they miracles? The human mind, whether you claim it to be of Divine origin or not, is far from perfect as we all know. The human potential for self-deception is remarkable. The scientific method, among other things, has been designed to minimize the possible impact of such self-deception... and it works well if applied properly. What if those miracles are also just (normal human) self-deception?

 

Once again, I apologize to those that I have hurt by my hurtful comments in the past. Please, Help me!!!![/size][/font]

 

Well whoever you are, whether you hurt me too by your comments or not... for now I choose to accept your apology as real. Time will tell

[R. S. Martin]

As many others have said, I too am happier as an atheist. No more futile attempts to relate to an invisible and imperceptible entity who will supposedly be angry with me for eternity if I fail to relate properly. All that misdirected energy has been freed up so that now I am free to enjoy and live life on this earth in this life. Others among us, however, find peace and fulfillment in some other religion. You may wish to explore exC's forum for ExChristian Theism or Spirituality.

 

 

I pretend to be 'have it all under control' so that my brothers and sisters and Christ can be encouraged, but I have failed as a woman of God. I pray powerful and emotional prayers and i can share some mind-shattering testimonies of God's goodness and might. But, why do I feel like there is something wrong? I cannot pinpoint it...it is a gut feeling. What do I do? My God has to be real!!! What about the miracles that he has performed in my own life? There has to be a God!

 

It's a way of thinking, of making sense of the world, the universe, of life. It took me about a year for my mind to adjust to thinking without God. I gave myself permission to think in terms of God if that was the way things were going to be.

 

I figured maybe my brain was too old to change; I was about fifty. Lo and behold! eventually I felt quite comfortable in a universe without God at the helm. By now, a few years later, the universe makes far more sense to me without the "god-factor."

 

When it comes to problem-solving in everyday life, I can cut straight to the chase without "going through god" for "guidance." The solutions I am getting are every bit as good as they used to be. Thus, the "prayer changes things" motto seems not to be all the accurate.

[Nara]

I preached the gospel so adamantly on this site to that the Webmaster blocked my account.

Really?

 

I don't remember you.

 

What was your previous account name?

 

Most of the time, it's either me or Kevin blocking any accounts, and I can't remember who I blocked last...

 

And I tried to match your IP# with any previous member but can't find any match.

 

Are you sure this is the website? I did check a list of banned members, but nothing that stood out, except one.

 

I'm not asking for the purpose of kicking you out again (if that happened), but just to confirm your story. We get a lot of strange people here, and I prefer to to know that people aren't just spoofing and posing.

 

I am afraid of being blocked again. I have a new IP address. I used to post on the main blog, not the forum. However, I truly need help. I cannot post on the main blog any longer. However, this time, I have been losing sleep over my religious beliefs.

 

It takes a lot to get blocked here. They hardly ever block anyone so unless you are far worse than some of the very bad trolls we've kept on you need fear nothing.

 

Do you have any specific questions about your beliefs we can help with?

 

Thanks a lot. I thought that Christians were forgiving, I was wrong. I just have this gut feeling that something is wrong with Christianity, but I can't put my finger on it. When I pray, I feel like I am talking to myself. As i mentioned before, I have a number of testimonies about miracles that have happened in my life, but I still wonder. I have been depressed lately... trying to show face. I have a hard time believing in the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve, and a Talking Snake.

 

How come God does not speak to me the way he communicated with the biblical figures from the Old Testament?

 

How come God does not appears to be involved in human affairs? In fact, I had to solve many problems myself and then give God the credit. I am just confused. How can a Holy-Spirit filled, tongue-speaking, God-fearing woman asks so many blasphemous questions?

[Ouroboros]

If honesty is to be blasphemous, then religion is build on dishonesty.

 

Nara, you are asking honest questions. How can that be blasphemy?

[par4dcourse]

When I pray, I feel like I am talking to myself.

 

Ding ding ding! Give the woman another cigar!

 

That's god in a nutshell. The voices and hunches and such are you! The good news is that since you now know this you can move on.

[Vigile]

 

 

Thanks a lot. I thought that Christians were forgiving, I was wrong. I just have this gut feeling that something is wrong with Christianity, but I can't put my finger on it. When I pray, I feel like I am talking to myself. As i mentioned before, I have a number of testimonies about miracles that have happened in my life, but I still wonder. I have been depressed lately... trying to show face. I have a hard time believing in the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve, and a Talking Snake.

 

How come God does not speak to me the way he communicated with the biblical figures from the Old Testament?

 

How come God does not appears to be involved in human affairs? In fact, I had to solve many problems myself and then give God the credit. I am just confused. How can a Holy-Spirit filled, tongue-speaking, God-fearing woman asks so many blasphemous questions?

 

Ouroboros raises a good point about asking questions. A little background on myself. Years ago I was street witnessing with friends and after being rebuffed and laughed at by most, we found a young kid, about 16-17, who took the time to talk to us. We all went to Denny's together and my friends and I tried to tell him the gospel message while he politely answered back with some pretty tough questions and pointed out some biblical contradictions that I had never encountered.

 

My friends grew more and more frustrated with him, though he was very polite and friendly and as they began to badger him with bible verses, to the point where they were simply just throwing random scripture at him as if it were a weapon, I found myself defending him against my friends.

 

I was quite shaken by the experience, not only because I was embarrassed about my friends, but because if I were completely honest, he raised questions that I had no answers to. I spent the following weeks contemplating this and finally took a drive up into the mountains, took out my journal and I wrote down a commitment I was determined to make both to myself and god that I would never again witness my faith until I held a deeper understanding of it. I wrote that I determined to be a student of life and a seeker of wisdom and truth with the hope that one day I would have the answers and would be an effective witness and servant of god. I determined to ask the hard questions and I reasoned with myself and with god that truth put to the test of fire would survive and that which was not real wasn't worth keeping to begin with. I fully believed that god would give me wisdom and understanding and that in the end this journey I began would bring me closer to him.

 

So I began, prayerfully, earnestly and in a dedicated manner to ask the hard questions. The answers I got surprised me and clearly I'm not a christian anymore but what I did I did via a sense of profound honesty. How can this be sinful? If god is real, if christianity is real, is it wrong to want to learn about it? Is it wrong to be intellectually honest and ask questions about what you have up until now just been told is true? Is it wrong to apply valid critical thinking methods to your beliefs? If it is wrong, isn't there something wrong with that?

 

I wish you luck. In the end, it's you that has to decide and ask the hard questions. If you are indoctrinated you don't need us to indoctrinate you to escape indoctrination, right?

[Overcame Faith]

Hi, Nara. You have already been shown something that is sorely lacking among many Christians - forgiveness. That should tell you a lot and help to ease your fears about exploring the truth of the religion. After all, what's the worst that can happen? You just might come to learn the truth and become a more gracious and forgiving person than you apparently were before.

 

I want to start here:

 

Please, Help me!!!!

 

It is obvious that when you come to an ExChristian site and ask for help, you are not asking for help to strengthen your faith in the religion. This must mean, therefore, that you are asking for help to come to an understanding of the truth. But you must be willing to truly seek the truth and go where it leads. If you are not, then no one on this site can help you, though as should be patently obvious from the responses you have received, many people have answered your call for help with an honest and heart-felt desire to provide you with the help you need.

 

Thanks a lot. I thought that Christians were forgiving, I was wrong. I just have this gut feeling that something is wrong with Christianity, but I can't put my finger on it. When I pray, I feel like I am talking to myself. As i mentioned before, I have a number of testimonies about miracles that have happened in my life, but I still wonder. I have been depressed lately... trying to show face. I have a hard time believing in the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve, and a Talking Snake.

 

 

The gut feeling you are having that something is wrong with Christianity is your mind doing what it can do quite well if you are willing to let it. It is the logical and rational part of your mind letting you know that the religion does not make sense and trying to convince your conscious self to examine critically the religion of which you are a part. When you pray, you are talking to yourself. And those times that you felt like god was communicating with you in response to your prayers, it was your own mind (not in your mind, but your mind itself). Therefore, should you finally decide to give up the religion, you will not be losing that "still, small voice." Rather, you will be able to recognize it for what it is. It is your mind doing what it should be doing. And your having a hard time believing in the Garden of Eden and the rest is, again, your logical mind trying to rescue you from your illogical and irrational beliefs. Go with this and don't fight it.

 

How come God does not speak to me the way he communicated with the biblical figures from the Old Testament?

 

Because no god communicated with them, either. It is mythology. This may be difficult to accept as it was for me for a long time.

 

How come God does not appears to be involved in human affairs? In fact, I had to solve many problems myself and then give God the credit.

 

Because no god is involved in human affairs at all and your experience of having to solve your own problems is the best evidence for this.

 

How can a Holy-Spirit filled, tongue-speaking, God-fearing woman asks so many blasphemous questions?

 

Because you are not Holy-Spirit filled and no one else is either. The speaking in tongues was not a product of the Holy Spirit, but a product of your own mind trying to conform to what was expected of you by others and from your own understanding of what you thought the bible said. In fact, there are many members on this site who, while they were christians, spoke in tongues and at least some of them say they can still do it at will yet they are no longer Christians. As a Christian, I never spoke in tongues because it was not what was taught in my church and thus was not expected of me. And my church, and many others, teach that those who speak in tongues are actually being led astray by Satan while your church probably taught that unless you spoke in tongues you were not a true Christian. Think about that, and think real carefully. If the Holy Spirit is leading all Christians to ultimate truth, why are there so many Christians with conflicting beliefs?

 

And forget the concept of blasphemy. There is no such thing. It is a convenient human made concept designed to prevent you from seeking the truth through the fear of your burning in hell for blasphemy. But there is no hell, either. That's just another human made concept designed to instill fear in you to keep you from seeking the truth.

 

the Lord has hold on my life

 

No, he doesn't. The religion has a hold on your life as do your fellow christians. But this hold is only there because you allow it. If you resolve to gain control of your life, you can do it just as your sister has done and just as I and others on this site have done.

 

What about the miracles that he has performed in my own life?

 

By definition, a true miracle is an act which has been done contrary to the physical laws. You need to examine these "miracles" you say were performed in your own life in a critical fashion. If you do so without the blinders of faith, you will come to see that not one of them was a miracle properly defined. Perhaps if you were involved in the restoration of an amputated limb, as someone else pointed out, you might have a true miracle. Otherwise, I will absolutely guarantee you that there have been no miracles in your life or anyone else's life since human beings first walked on the face of the earth.

[ShackledNoMore]

Nara, I was a Holy-Spirit filled, tongue-speaking, God-fearing man, and I asked blasphemous questions (when I believed there was a spirit to fill and a god to fear). It is difficult to start asking such questions because of the perception they are blasphemous. If it's any help, here is why, from the "still a christian" perspective, I think that it is OK to ask these questions. I actually pondered questions about asking questions, not just in my own mind, but with other christians at that time (one of them also doubting).

 

Let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that the Bible, as seen through the eyes of an evangelical christian, actually represents the ultimate truth. It is a pretty widespread tenant within the evangelical camp that if you sincerely seek god he will be there for you. I know you have done so and are doing so even as you question. If the god of your belief system does exist, there are certain answers that you WILL find if you are sincere and honest. The Christian god is presented as perfect and all loving. If the christian god does exist and is perfect, omnipotent, and all loving, there WILL be a suitable answer out there to the problem of evil--somewhere. In church, we have been told that christians have god living in them, and that their sins have been washed away in the blood, and those that are not saved are sinners, therefore there is a big difference between christians and non-christians that really shows. Then we see statistics that the divorce rate rises, the more devout the christian is, being highest in those who purport to be the most devout and the lowest among atheists. If God is real, there HAS to be an explanation for this, and it has to be a truly satisfactory explanation. If God is real, there has to exist a satisfactory answer to your observation that your sister can be happier than you when she is an atheist. Does the Bible provide words of truth from the creator of the universe? One would expect that as we make scientific discoveries they would confirm our expectations from the Bible, baring that we would expect that there would exist some reasonable explanation without us scrambling for desperate hypotheses to support our pre-existing assumptions. Bible contradictions? One has to decide why in a book purported to be without contradictions that apologist must go through such awkward contortions to defend so many passages that are pointed out as giving contradictory accounts.

 

Why did an all loving, all benevolent god condone slavery, command his subjects to be stoned to death for picking up sticks on the Sabbath, endow us with some sexual urges the practice of which do not actually harm anybody, but he considers an abomination, and deem women subservient to men, when lost, many heathen sinners have a so much more enlightened morality? For this god to exist there would have to be a reasonable explanation as to why some heathen morality seems superior to morality handed down by him.

 

On the other hand, if you question honestly, and find that there is no reasonably explanation for all of these things, and in fact what you finds fits the premise that this god does not exist, then you probably will lose your faith.

 

Of course you feel a bond with your god, a powerful emotional bond. Why do people of other religions feel an equal bond and equal certainty if your god is real and theirs is not? Assuming theirs were real and yours were not, you would still feel the same bond. That is another question that has to be answered. It also has to be answered why, if god is not real it is so convincing that he has performed miracles in your life. How could you speak in tongues if he is not real? What is the psychology involved? What role do your emotions play in your perceptions? What role does your interactions with other christians, and what goes on every week in your church, and what you were taught about god growing up play in your perceptions? Assuming for the sake of argument that god is not real, and you are honest with yourself, then you should also find reasonable answers to these questions. Hint, I did.

 

Nara, I don't know what you did to get banned before, but I admire you for asking these questions. It shows that you are honest. Honest inquiry is a good thing, no matter what conclusions they lead us to. I think that it is a good thing to examine your beliefs and look at supporting and refuting arguments alike. Best wishes.

[HRDWarrior]

Nara, I get the feeling you are going through a stage many of us went through where you have questions about your faith that you cannot answer completely with your current knowledge base. I strongly encourage you to study your religion, it's history, and then see where it leads you. If your god is what is claimed, then you should come out the other end stronger than you are now. The fact that you are posting on this site tells me a couple things - you see something in your sister (and perhaps other atheists) that you desire, yet cannot find. You also seem to be posing the questions you are having here because you know you will get truthful answers instead of the pat answers and circular reasoning you encounter in christian circles.

 

Find out why you believe what you believe - honestly, that is one of my biggest pet peeves with many religious people - those who simply believe something, but don't want to know the truth about it. For those who have truly studied it out and learned about and still retain their faith, I have no problems with (until they refuse to pass that truth on to others and instead lie and twist things to fit what preconceived ideas people in their churches have). Knowing about the history of something you claim so dear should only strengthen you if it is real for you. If it is so easily washed away by simply looking at it logically and historically, then there's probably a reason for it.

 

People here are generally more than willing to help give answers and provide references for specific questions or to point you to authors, etc who have already done the research to give you a place to start. Read and study some things with an open mind - take a step back and really look at the bible without the rose-colored glasses and really read what is there without adding in all the rhetoric you've been taught. Tackle a few books that challenge christianity and see why people turn from it - this site can tell you many of the reasons for that.

 

Many of us here were what we would have labeled "strong" christians - warriors for Jesus if you will, dedicated and fully involved. But there are very valid reasons for no longer being a part of that. It is not a choice - once you realize something isn't real, you cannot choose to believe in it anymore than you can honestly believe Santa Claus is real. Yet, should you find your belief unable to be placed where it currently is, you will go through a whole set of other feelings and processes - but until that time, take time to learn why you believe what you do, how the book in your hands came into being, and see if you can answer those hard questions, even if you don't like the answers.

[Shyone]

Thanks a lot. I thought that Christians were forgiving, I was wrong. I just have this gut feeling that something is wrong with Christianity, but I can't put my finger on it. When I pray, I feel like I am talking to myself. As i mentioned before, I have a number of testimonies about miracles that have happened in my life, but I still wonder. I have been depressed lately... trying to show face. I have a hard time believing in the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve, and a Talking Snake.

 

Boy does that sound familiar to me. I felt like an idiot in church one day praying to no one - just talking to myself. I feared that everyone could tell I was faking it. I wonder now if others were faking it too.

 

Let's face it, genesis has some real doozies in there, and they were probably just stories when they were told around the campfire before they were written down. Actually, most of these stories were passed down from more ancient civilizations. That realization was something that really shocked me. It went like this:

 

1. Bible stories (and psalms and proverbs) come from more ancient civilizatins - Egypt, Sumer, Babylon, Akkad, Assyria.

2. They worshiped false gods

3. The words wound up in the bible supposedly the word of God.

4. If the words came from false gods, and were only repeated in the Old testament, then no only is Yahweh a false god (middle-eastern wannabe) but "His words" weren't even original. Sheesh!

 

 

How come God does not speak to me the way he communicated with the biblical figures from the Old Testament?

 

God never spoke with the guys in the OT. Evil things were said by Moses, Joshua and others, like to kill an entire village, men women, infants and children, and the words were put into the mouth of God, but no one heard God talk with these butchering thieves. It was just their word.

 

Imagine if I went into a closet and came out and said, "The Lord Says we should slaughter our neighbors and take their money." You would think I was nuts. Or would you say, "Well, the Lord said it, so we must obey!"?

 

How come God does not appears to be involved in human affairs? In fact, I had to solve many problems myself and then give God the credit. I am just confused. How can a Holy-Spirit filled, tongue-speaking, God-fearing woman asks so many blasphemous questions?

 

There you go. I gave God the credit for a lot of stuff, but I also approached life saying, "God helps those who help themselves." So my rewards were proportional to my efforts - just like if there never were a god helping me.

 

The reality is that stuff happens. Good stuff, bad stuff. Even the bible acknowledges this (Mat 5:45 He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous).

 

Apologists can make a thousand excuses for why God doesn't do anything, but in the end, God doesn't do anything. Nature does some really wonderful stuff - healing, stopping bleeding, fighting infection, and sometimes even the near impossible (curing cancer!). Some people give God the credit, but the same things happen to atheists.

 

I am reminded of a guy that was an atheist and had kidney cancer. His cancer regressed and finally disappeared (a rare but well documented phenomenon), and he had no one to thank.

 

If prayer really worked, don't you think Christians would be healthier and live longer than atheists?

 

If believing in Jesus changed a person, wouldn't there be fewer Christians in jail, or committing fraud, or abusing children?

 

It's really not confusing. It's just the way things work. People are people, nature is nature, and we are part of nature. I do understand why you would be confused, but that's because you're still trying to shove a round peg into a square hole.

 

If everything that happened were just god's will, there wouldn't be any lawyers.

[Crazy Donna]

Thanks a lot. I thought that Christians were forgiving, I was wrong. I just have this gut feeling that something is wrong with Christianity, but I can't put my finger on it. When I pray, I feel like I am talking to myself. As i mentioned before, I have a number of testimonies about miracles that have happened in my life, but I still wonder. I have been depressed lately... trying to show face. I have a hard time believing in the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve, and a Talking Snake.

 

How come God does not speak to me the way he communicated with the biblical figures from the Old Testament?

 

How come God does not appears to be involved in human affairs? In fact, I had to solve many problems myself and then give God the credit. I am just confused. How can a Holy-Spirit filled, tongue-speaking, God-fearing woman asks so many blasphemous questions?

You may find this hard to believe, Nara, but I was EXACTLY a spirit filled god fearing woman. Just like you.

 

Losing my faith was traumatic for me. I really wanted to believe that there was a god who loved me despite all the evidence to the contrary. I used to believe that god had a plan for my life, that he loved me, and that his love would be demonstrated to me. All I had to do was just suck it up and live my life for him. I have endured terrible things for my faith. I know what it is like to be spat on.

 

But I read the bible, and I started to realise that what I was experiencing did not match what I was expecting from god. The OT showed god to be a malevolent cruel monster, hell bent on treating his creation like filth. Then I looked at my own life and wondered why god was always letting me down. Why was I doing everything right and getting nowhere and living such an unfullfilling life? I had people tell me I was going to be a great woman of god, but it never happened. I had people pray for my injuries to be healed, and it never happened. In fact, everything good that has ever happened to me happened after I stopped believing in god, because I didn't have to do mental gymnastics to rationalise why god would let such things happen. I just know now that life is random and sometimes stuff just happens that isn't cool. I don't have to believe that god is somehow angry with me or that I have let him down and it's 'punishment'. I no longer have to endure things in silence. I'm telling you, christianity was the worst thing that ever happened to me. Now I am free of it, I am ME. Not everyone else's opinion of what ME should be like.

 

You have been trained for a long time to believe that christianity is true. That feeling that 'something is wrong' is your brain telling you that it isn't adding up.

 

Ask the questions and just go with it. I did. I was left with two alternatives. (1) god didn't want me, and rejected me, despite my clinging to him, or (2) god doesn't exist.

 

If you ever want to chat to me, I'm in the Chat pretty regularly. I know it can be hard when reality doesn't add up, and I know what it's like. Valk is right when he says examination of your faith should only strengthen it. If god is real and christianity is real, all evidence should point to it BEING real. But it doesn't. And when you dare to go down that path, it'll change your life. It was hard, but I am so much happier now. I can't begin to tell you how great it is to know that the greatest being in the universe does not have a vendetta against me because some ancient woman ate some fruit she was told not to eat. If you want to bounce some ideas off me, find me in the chat.

[sydjulia22]

"Organized religion is like organized crime; it preys on peoples' weaknesses, generates huge profits for its operators, and is almost impossible to eradicate."

 

Nara,

 

I will throw you one even more stark. What is different from the Christian Gospel and a Mafia offer you can't refuse?

 

The Christian Gospel promises good things and life ever lasting if you accept Christ. The Mafia offers somebody an easy life with money if they become part of what they call 'The Family'...What we may call 'The Mafia'. If you reject Christ, you go to hell. If you reject the Mafia offer, you might end up in the bottom of a river with concrete shoes. The Church offers you a 'Church Family'...the Mafia offers you a 'Family'. Both use gentle or overt extortion to get you to fall into line. So why would a supposedly loving God act like a Mafia Don?