Apology & Rant

[Crazy Donna]

You're life isn't over; it hasn't even begun! Love and life and all of the details that leave you with memories and regrets and even hope will take a long time, but you won't see it that way. It will all be gone in the blink of an eye.

 

If you haven't seen it, I recommend the movie, "Shawshank Redemption." It has lessons in it for the impatient.

 

And good music (IMO).

 

Alright, I'll admit, if I play my cards right, there could be good days ahead of me. But that's just it, if I play my cards right. At the moment, I'm not even sure I HAVE all my cards.

 

Besides, part of my original point was that I've wasted a good portion of my years. I had a decent childhood, but my teen years.... my teen years were not, are not, what they should be. Very empty, very unfulfilling. There are skills that I am missing that I should have had a long time ago. There are things I haven't yet experienced that I should have experienced a long time ago. I wasted my teen years. Now that I'm 18, I look back, and I'm just like... wow. I really blew it. I'm not saying it's too late to learn and live, but to an extent it somewhat is, because there are things in life that I've basically skipped over unintentionally that has warped my view of everything, including myself. I am a loser when it comes to this, I need to change, but there's so much change I need to make that I get overwhelmed and don't know how to do it.

PI, you're one of the least shallow people on this site. You feel things deeply, and you don't lie to yourself about reality. I promise you, you have more cards than most people have in their lifetime. When you get through this, you will take NOTHING for granted.

 

I had a horrific teenage life. You're eighteen. My 'teen' years didn't really start til I was about 21. I kid you not. I was living out of home, looking after myself, having people who were supposed to be looking after me throw my school uniform out in the garbage because they didn't like it and they thought my parents would buy me new ones. That didn't happen. I had harrassment from teachers for having no uniform, but no help to get one. I've had creepy landlords watch me get changed, holding the door open for a whole hallway of people to watch me, half naked, putting my clothes on. I spent a weekend locked in a bedroom thinking I was going to die, because of a psychotic flatmate. I've eaten out of bins. I've had people throw me out of their houses because they simply didn't want the responsibility of me any more (and I was a perfect student and wouldn't say boo to a fly, once). Believe me, my life was once crap like yours is. And I was trying to be a faithful christian, hoping god would improve my life. It never happened. I improved my life, but it wasn't until much later.

 

I lived. I had the best teenage years, but I had them from about 20-25. It rocked. I regret nothing, and I was a wild party girl with magic marker smiley faces on my boobs. I went nuts, and I had a great time, and made some fantastic, lifelong friends. But I could not have had these experiences if I didn't first pass through what you're passing through now.

 

You're overwhelmed. So you know what you're gonna do? You're just going to face one thing at a time. Write a list if you have to, and say "Today, I'm gonna try to deal with this." No timelines. You can't rush this, but by fuck, it's worth it when you get through it.

 

I have absolute faith in you. If you're a tenth of the person you've demonstrated you are on this site, you'll ace this. You just have to take it one day at a time

[Shyone]

Besides, part of my original point was that I've wasted a good portion of my years. I had a decent childhood, but my teen years.... my teen years were not, are not, what they should be. Very empty, very unfulfilling. There are skills that I am missing that I should have had a long time ago. There are things I haven't yet experienced that I should have experienced a long time ago. I wasted my teen years. Now that I'm 18, I look back, and I'm just like... wow. I really blew it. I'm not saying it's too late to learn and live, but to an extent it somewhat is, because there are things in life that I've basically skipped over unintentionally that has warped my view of everything, including myself. I am a loser when it comes to this, I need to change, but there's so much change I need to make that I get overwhelmed and don't know how to do it.

I know I'm really going to sound like an old fogey, but here goes. At 18, there is no back. It's erased. Criminal records, high school grades, report cards; all of it is erased. You are starting now. What you do from this point counts like what has passed never did.

 

I don't mean to scare you with that, but rather to show that you literally have "a new beginnong."

 

So what did I do in high school? I played tennis. I'm a great tennis star. NOT. I sang in the choir. I'm a famous musician. NOT. I was in the drama club. I'm a famous star on stage and film. NOT.

 

So what does that mean? I wasted my life before I was 18. NOT. It's just something I did. It has nothing to do with what I do now.

 

Am I expressing myself so that you can understand?

 

I'd like to add that even after 18, not everything you do is really extremely important. I dated some, they all hate me now (exaggeration, but they don't love me either). My old roommate in college was a jerk. I had a gay friend, and I was so homophobic I dropped him like a hot potato when I found out he was gay.

 

Let me tell you about a wasted life, and remember this is only my opinion:

 

1. Imprisoned for the rest of his natural life for murder.

2. Addicted to drugs that will destroy him, and unable (or unwilling) to ask for help.

3. Self-flagellating (as opposed to self-felating) religious nut unable to interact with anyone, and intent on living as a hermit for the rest of his life (imprisoned by ideas).

 

I could give mroe examples. I think there are things that waste lives because they destroy potential.

[Shyone]

I have absolute faith in you. If you're a tenth of the person you've demonstrated you are on this site, you'll ace this. You just have to take it one day at a time

Yeah, what she said.

 

(Any pictures?)

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

Thanks for the support, everybody.

 

PI, you're one of the least shallow people on this site. You feel things deeply, and you don't lie to yourself about reality. I promise you, you have more cards than most people have in their lifetime. When you get through this, you will take NOTHING for granted.

 

I had a horrific teenage life. You're eighteen. My 'teen' years didn't really start til I was about 21. I kid you not. I was living out of home, looking after myself, having people who were supposed to be looking after me throw my school uniform out in the garbage because they didn't like it and they thought my parents would buy me new ones. That didn't happen. I had harrassment from teachers for having no uniform, but no help to get one. I've had creepy landlords watch me get changed, holding the door open for a whole hallway of people to watch me, half naked, putting my clothes on. I spent a weekend locked in a bedroom thinking I was going to die, because of a psychotic flatmate. I've eaten out of bins. I've had people throw me out of their houses because they simply didn't want the responsibility of me any more (and I was a perfect student and wouldn't say boo to a fly, once). Believe me, my life was once crap like yours is. And I was trying to be a faithful christian, hoping god would improve my life. It never happened. I improved my life, but it wasn't until much later.

 

I lived. I had the best teenage years, but I had them from about 20-25. It rocked. I regret nothing, and I was a wild party girl with magic marker smiley faces on my boobs. I went nuts, and I had a great time, and made some fantastic, lifelong friends. But I could not have had these experiences if I didn't first pass through what you're passing through now.

 

You're overwhelmed. So you know what you're gonna do? You're just going to face one thing at a time. Write a list if you have to, and say "Today, I'm gonna try to deal with this." No timelines. You can't rush this, but by fuck, it's worth it when you get through it.

 

I have absolute faith in you. If you're a tenth of the person you've demonstrated you are on this site, you'll ace this. You just have to take it one day at a time

 

I can't say I've ever experienced anything like that. I just want to make this clear, whenever I talk about my life sucking, I always mean it from a mental perspective, not a physical one. Hope I don't come across as one of those guys who are like "wahhh, nothing goes my way, the world is my enemy, my life sucks, waahhhh"

 

I know I'm really going to sound like an old fogey, but here goes. At 18, there is no back. It's erased. Criminal records, high school grades, report cards; all of it is erased. You are starting now. What you do from this point counts like what has passed never did.

 

I don't mean to scare you with that, but rather to show that you literally have "a new beginnong."

 

So what did I do in high school? I played tennis. I'm a great tennis star. NOT. I sang in the choir. I'm a famous musician. NOT. I was in the drama club. I'm a famous star on stage and film. NOT.

 

So what does that mean? I wasted my life before I was 18. NOT. It's just something I did. It has nothing to do with what I do now.

 

Am I expressing myself so that you can understand?

 

I'd like to add that even after 18, not everything you do is really extremely important. I dated some, they all hate me now (exaggeration, but they don't love me either). My old roommate in college was a jerk. I had a gay friend, and I was so homophobic I dropped him like a hot potato when I found out he was gay.

 

Let me tell you about a wasted life, and remember this is only my opinion:

 

1. Imprisoned for the rest of his natural life for murder.

2. Addicted to drugs that will destroy him, and unable (or unwilling) to ask for help.

3. Self-flagellating (as opposed to self-felating) religious nut unable to interact with anyone, and intent on living as a hermit for the rest of his life (imprisoned by ideas).

 

I could give mroe examples. I think there are things that waste lives because they destroy potential.

 

You have a very good point. You're right, 18 is a new beginning. The past doesn't matter at this point.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

I have to be honest, though. Even though I want to fight this, I want to change, I want a new beginning.... I'm still so overwhelemed that I have no idea where to go from here.

[RankStranger]

So just out of curiosity, PI- what do you do with your time? Are you done with high school? In college? Working?

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

So just out of curiosity, PI- what do you do with your time? Are you done with high school? In college? Working?

 

Working.

 

To tell you the truth though, I don't have much of a "life". Sure, I hang out with friends every now and then, but other than that, I either drive somewhere just for the sake of something to do, find something to do on the internet, or.... that's pretty much it. Not a lot to do around in these parts.

[Shyone]

So just out of curiosity, PI- what do you do with your time? Are you done with high school? In college? Working?

 

Working.

 

To tell you the truth though, I don't have much of a "life". Sure, I hang out with friends every now and then, but other than that, I either drive somewhere just for the sake of something to do, find something to do on the internet, or.... that's pretty much it. Not a lot to do around in these parts.

What seems like a curse now may later be the thing that you miss the most. Hanging out, not a lot to do. Man, I miss that.

 

Think of life as slow motion in silence; rocks skimming across the water, wave spreading out, rock sinks; look for another rock. That's life. Not wasted, but living.

 

When you're older, you'll see that living is the thing you're doing when you're not doing anything important. Sounds backwards, doesn't it? I see people every day with problems and I try to help them, and I do pretty good, and they appreciate it, but I'm getting ready for a vacation. I get to do nothing but look at water, swim, read maybe, sleep, and just walk around. That's living.

[RankStranger]

I wouldn't worry about that lack of a 'life' too much. Most people don't have one, myself included.

 

I really think that your current environment has a lot to do with your mentality- that's true for everybody. But if you're working and getting some money saved up... just keep it together and keep going through the motions 'til you can get the hell outta there.

 

I'm sure your parents mean well, but speaking from my own experience, it can be a soul-crushing for a young man to have to live with his parents.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

Hanging out and not having a lot to deal with is good. But I don't think of it as just hanging out and not having responsibility. I think of it as being bored and useless to the point of having too much time to think. I have too much idle thinking time, and I'm paying for it mentally.

[Shyone]

Hanging out and not having a lot to deal with is good. But I don't think of it as just hanging out and not having responsibility. I think of it as being bored and useless to the point of having too much time to think. I have too much idle thinking time, and I'm paying for it mentally.

Good point. You can't take a vacation from being idle.

 

I'm not going to get in your business. I'm not, I'm not. Nope, not.

 

When I was about 10, a friend and I started making observations of ant beds. Nothing scientific really, just frying the little creatures or otherwise being cruel, but we'd write what we saw, what we did, and so forth. I did the same with a mouse in a pressurized gerber baby food jar with air pumped in with an electric pump. Observed activity, made observations, catalogued them. Later on, we started hiking around the area, taking food with us to cook even though we were only a few miles from home. We started planning and before long we were taking trips to go hiking that we saved up for. Planning, travelling, hiking and all that just to see what was on the other side of a mountain.

 

All pretty useless stuff, but I remember it all. Sometimes I think that's what life is - memories. Good and bad, triumphs, defeats and just peace.

 

Life can be a real adventure, even if it's just hiking around town. Just don't do something illegal. Or get caught.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

 

Good point. You can't take a vacation from being idle.

 

I'm not going to get in your business. I'm not, I'm not. Nope, not.

 

When I was about 10, a friend and I started making observations of ant beds. Nothing scientific really, just frying the little creatures or otherwise being cruel, but we'd write what we saw, what we did, and so forth. I did the same with a mouse in a pressurized gerber baby food jar with air pumped in with an electric pump. Observed activity, made observations, catalogued them. Later on, we started hiking around the area, taking food with us to cook even though we were only a few miles from home. We started planning and before long we were taking trips to go hiking that we saved up for. Planning, travelling, hiking and all that just to see what was on the other side of a mountain.

 

All pretty useless stuff, but I remember it all. Sometimes I think that's what life is - memories. Good and bad, triumphs, defeats and just peace.

 

Life can be a real adventure, even if it's just hiking around town. Just don't do something illegal. Or get caught.

 

I almost wish I could go back to that childlike way of thinking, back to a time when thinks were simple and I didn't feel the need to analyze everything.

[Shyone]

 

I almost wish I could go back to that childlike way of thinking, back to a time when thinks were simple and I didn't feel the need to analyze everything.

No matter how imprisoned or confined you may feel now, your mind can be free. I think that "analyzing everything" can become a help instead of a hindrance. Insights come from analysis and reflection.

 

The entirety of human thought can pretty much be summed up with:

 

Given: information

If: questions

Then: conclusion

 

It doesn't have to happen in that order though. One may have a question, seek information, and then come to a conclusion.

 

Religious mentality starts with the conclusion, doesn't ask questions, and selectively seeks information to support the conclusion. Accepting something on faith is not "analysis", but it is common.

 

I can't remember who wrote it, but I like the phrase, "Come; Let us reason together."

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

No matter how imprisoned or confined you may feel now, your mind can be free. I think that "analyzing everything" can become a help instead of a hindrance. Insights come from analysis and reflection.

 

The entirety of human thought can pretty much be summed up with:

 

Given: information

If: questions

Then: conclusion

 

It doesn't have to happen in that order though. One may have a question, seek information, and then come to a conclusion.

 

Religious mentality starts with the conclusion, doesn't ask questions, and selectively seeks information to support the conclusion. Accepting something on faith is not "analysis", but it is common.

 

My mind can't be free if I continue to analyze everything to such an extent. It's mental hell.

 

I can't remember who wrote it, but I like the phrase, "Come; Let us reason together."

 

That's in the Bible. Isaiah 1:18. "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD"

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

Don't take anything I say seriously. Apparently, my word means nothing. More than once, I've left "permanently", then came back, started a new thread, said I wasn't going to make the same kinds of posts this time, then went on and did it anyway. 3 or 4 times, this has happened. What the FUCK is my problem? I'd say I'm going to stop, but I'd probably end up doing it anyway. Fuck the person that is me. I hate everything about myself. I try to change, yet I fail every time. I'm stuck being this piece of shit.

[Crazy Donna]

Don't take anything I say seriously. Apparently, my word means nothing. More than once, I've left "permanently", then came back, started a new thread, said I wasn't going to make the same kinds of posts this time, then went on and did it anyway. 3 or 4 times, this has happened. What the FUCK is my problem? I'd say I'm going to stop, but I'd probably end up doing it anyway. Fuck the person that is me. I hate everything about myself. I try to change, yet I fail every time. I'm stuck being this piece of shit.

 

Have you ever thought that maybe being indecisive isn't a bad thing, especially when you have unfinished business? Every time you said you were leaving, I cringed, because I thought that would be the worst thing you can do.

 

You need the catharsis. POst as much as you like. I don't care if it's repetitive, I've been where you've been, and I know you just have to get it out, over and over again.

 

You're just a bit overwhelmed right now. This will pass. NOTHING lasts forever.

 

What kind of work are you doing? Are you full time or part time? You're doing great, for someone with anxiety. You're going to look back on this one day and realise just how well you were doing, even when you didn't think you were getting anywhere.

 

Sometimes the biggest progress just happens when you're doing what you're doing -- which seems like nothing, but you're giving your mind a chance to get itself in order. Who cares if it takes a while? It's worth it.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

Have you ever thought that maybe being indecisive isn't a bad thing, especially when you have unfinished business?

 

No, not at all.

 

Every time you said you were leaving, I cringed, because I thought that would be the worst thing you can do.

 

Maybe, but it's not like I can fuck it up much more than it already is.

 

You need the catharsis. POst as much as you like. I don't care if it's repetitive, I've been where you've been, and I know you just have to get it out, over and over again.

 

I appreciate the willingness to let me say whatever, but that's probably not such a good idea.

 

You're just a bit overwhelmed right now. This will pass. NOTHING lasts forever.

 

Unfortunately, we live in a random world where shit happens, and people are too optimistic about things. There's not always a light at the end of the tunnel. There's not always hope. Despite what a lot of people would say, there are situations you can get yourself in that leave you hopeless. Personally, I think I'm in, or at least almost in that situation. I'm serious when I say, I don't think I could get any worse. I've got so much stress about so many things, that I can't even do anything about it. Today was particularly bad. I found myself entertaining the thought of suicide. I wasn't considering doing it, or anything like that, but for some fucked up reason, that makes me feel some strange feeling of hope. I can't really explain it. No, I'm not going to do it. And I'm not pretending that I am either. I'm only talking about, it somehow gives me hope when I entertain thoughts of it.

 

What kind of work are you doing? Are you full time or part time? You're doing great, for someone with anxiety. You're going to look back on this one day and realise just how well you were doing, even when you didn't think you were getting anywhere.

 

I'd rather not specifically reveal what I do on a public forum, for certain reasons. It's technically full time, usually every day, but it doesn't always work like that. I can tell you this, though. I do a sucky half-assed job at it.

 

Sometimes the biggest progress just happens when you're doing what you're doing -- which seems like nothing, but you're giving your mind a chance to get itself in order.

 

I've done a whole lot of nothing for a long time. Nothing has improved. Nothing will improve.

 

Who cares if it takes a while? It's worth it.

 

I absolutely cannot keep wating like this. Something has to happen soon.

[R. S. Martin]

Have you ever thought that maybe being indecisive isn't a bad thing, especially when you have unfinished business?

 

No, not at all.

 

Every time you said you were leaving, I cringed, because I thought that would be the worst thing you can do.

 

Maybe, but it's not like I can fuck it up much more than it already is.

 

You need the catharsis. POst as much as you like. I don't care if it's repetitive, I've been where you've been, and I know you just have to get it out, over and over again.

 

I appreciate the willingness to let me say whatever, but that's probably not such a good idea.

 

You're just a bit overwhelmed right now. This will pass. NOTHING lasts forever.

 

Unfortunately, we live in a random world where shit happens, and people are too optimistic about things. There's not always a light at the end of the tunnel. There's not always hope. Despite what a lot of people would say, there are situations you can get yourself in that leave you hopeless. Personally, I think I'm in, or at least almost in that situation. I'm serious when I say, I don't think I could get any worse. I've got so much stress about so many things, that I can't even do anything about it. Today was particularly bad. I found myself entertaining the thought of suicide. I wasn't considering doing it, or anything like that, but for some fucked up reason, that makes me feel some strange feeling of hope. I can't really explain it. No, I'm not going to do it. And I'm not pretending that I am either. I'm only talking about, it somehow gives me hope when I entertain thoughts of it.

 

What kind of work are you doing? Are you full time or part time? You're doing great, for someone with anxiety. You're going to look back on this one day and realise just how well you were doing, even when you didn't think you were getting anywhere.

 

I'd rather not specifically reveal what I do on a public forum, for certain reasons. It's technically full time, usually every day, but it doesn't always work like that. I can tell you this, though. I do a sucky half-assed job at it.

 

Sometimes the biggest progress just happens when you're doing what you're doing -- which seems like nothing, but you're giving your mind a chance to get itself in order.

 

I've done a whole lot of nothing for a long time. Nothing has improved. Nothing will improve.

 

Who cares if it takes a while? It's worth it.

 

I absolutely cannot keep wating like this. Something has to happen soon.

 

I did not read the entire thread--only the first forty posts and this last page. For me, this post tells me more about your beliefs or life philosophy than any of the earlier posts I saw.

 

Something really important jumps out at me:

 

1. You hate your job and you're performing very poorly.
2. You know life can be a serious tunnel with no light or hope at the end.
3. The thought of suicide gives you hope, possibly because it is the one thing within your power that would change your immediate situation.

If I am right about #3, I suggest you take a really hard look at ALL the life options open to you--even the supposedly impossible ones--and see what change(s) could possibly be made to your long-term situation to make you feel good about your life-goals and over-all work/career situation.

 

You may be able to do the primary research/thinking on this as you piddle away on your current job. Going to the library and doing internet research would provide evening and weekend activity. (You want to think this through on a very deep level and be sure it fits in with your natural talents that you were born with, especially if it requires further education or major financial investment such as for a business.)

 

Also talk to people who are doing what you think you would like to do, read their autobiographies, find out what it's like being in that career and work environment. Then figure out whether you would or could cope with such a work environment long term, such as thirty-plus years.

 

If it is the one thing in life you have a passion for, go for it regardless of nagging questions such as: Will there actually be a position for me once I get my degree? or The pay is too low to support a family. Etc.

 

Keep your options and training as wide as possible so you don't paint yourself into a corner. I have seen people with passion and talent for some unique (also known as freaky) vocation pursue their interests, not knowing whether or what would await them but knowing it was either this or nothing. In the end they found something acceptable and perhaps by the age of thirty-five or forty they were doing exactly what they had dreamed of when eighteen.

 

Some of these, perhaps especially artists, work on their specialties on evenings and weekends while working some more boring task (in their area of training) during the day. They will show their work at conferences, etc., and get to be known--but it all has to happen on the side while perhaps drawing cartoons for some advertising firm to pay the rent and buy groceries, etc.

 

(I apologize if a fine artist reading this knows I've got the details wrong; I don't know too much about this but I'm trying to make the point that some of the greatest and most famous heroes of various types and stripes have worked behind the scenes on their specialties until life provided the opportunity to do it full time--if ever.)

 

But I think it is also important not to force oneself to work in a field totally unrelated to one's talents, especially if it causes this level of depression and meaninglessness as whatever you are doing causes for you, PI. It sounds like what drove me to desperation, too.

 

Maybe I am reading you totally wrong. If so, my apologies. My dog is asking to be taken out NOW.

[Overcame Faith]

I'm serious when I say, I don't think I could get any worse.

 

It may not feel like it right now, but this is actually an optimistic statement. Think about it, PI.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

 

I did not read the entire thread--only the first forty posts and this last page. For me, this post tells me more about your beliefs or life philosophy than any of the earlier posts I saw.

 

Something really important jumps out at me:

 

1. You hate your job and you're performing very poorly.
2. You know life can be a serious tunnel with no light or hope at the end.
3. The thought of suicide gives you hope, possibly because it is the one thing within your power that would change your immediate situation.

If I am right about #3, I suggest you take a really hard look at ALL the life options open to you--even the supposedly impossible ones--and see what change(s) could possibly be made to your long-term situation to make you feel good about your life-goals and over-all work/career situation.

 

You may be able to do the primary research/thinking on this as you piddle away on your current job. Going to the library and doing internet research would provide evening and weekend activity. (You want to think this through on a very deep level and be sure it fits in with your natural talents that you were born with, especially if it requires further education or major financial investment such as for a business.)

 

Also talk to people who are doing what you think you would like to do, read their autobiographies, find out what it's like being in that career and work environment. Then figure out whether you would or could cope with such a work environment long term, such as thirty-plus years.

 

If it is the one thing in life you have a passion for, go for it regardless of nagging questions such as: Will there actually be a position for me once I get my degree? or The pay is too low to support a family. Etc.

 

Keep your options and training as wide as possible so you don't paint yourself into a corner. I have seen people with passion and talent for some unique (also known as freaky) vocation pursue their interests, not knowing whether or what would await them but knowing it was either this or nothing. In the end they found something acceptable and perhaps by the age of thirty-five or forty they were doing exactly what they had dreamed of when eighteen.

 

Some of these, perhaps especially artists, work on their specialties on evenings and weekends while working some more boring task (in their area of training) during the day. They will show their work at conferences, etc., and get to be known--but it all has to happen on the side while perhaps drawing cartoons for some advertising firm to pay the rent and buy groceries, etc.

 

(I apologize if a fine artist reading this knows I've got the details wrong; I don't know too much about this but I'm trying to make the point that some of the greatest and most famous heroes of various types and stripes have worked behind the scenes on their specialties until life provided the opportunity to do it full time--if ever.)

 

But I think it is also important not to force oneself to work in a field totally unrelated to one's talents, especially if it causes this level of depression and meaninglessness as whatever you are doing causes for you, PI. It sounds like what drove me to desperation, too.

 

Maybe I am reading you totally wrong. If so, my apologies. My dog is asking to be taken out NOW.

 

I definitely didn't mean to imply that I hated my job. That's not the case at all. When I said I did a sucky half-assed job at it, I meant to be slandering myself, not the job.

 

 

I'm serious when I say, I don't think I could get any worse.

 

It may not feel like it right now, but this is actually an optimistic statement. Think about it, PI.

 

If it sounded optimistic at all, then I probably didn't say it right.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

I've started reading the Bible again. I'm only up to the 20th chapter of Genesis and I've already started to pick up on a few things. Some of these things have already been mentioned here on the forums, but they come across differently when you actually come across them in the Bible yourself.

 

For one thing, the serpent didn't lie to Eve.

 

Now the serpent was the shrewdest of all the creatures the LORD God had made. "Really?" he asked the woman. "Did God really say you must not eat any of the fruit in the garden?" "Of course we may eat it," the woman told him. "It's only the fruit from the tree at the center of the garden that we are not allowed to eat. God says we must not eat it or even touch it, or we will die." "You won't die!" the serpent hissed. "God knows that your eyes will be opened when you eat it. You will become just like God, knowing everything, both good and evil."

 

Afterwards, God said "The people have become as we are, knowing everything, both good and evil. What if they eat the fruit of the tree of life? Then they will live forever!" Then he kicked them out of the garden.

 

I don't know about the whole "you won't die" thing, I'm still thinking about that. But about the other thing, about the serpent telling Eve that they'll get the knowledge of good and evil, he told the truth! There's not a whole lot of deceit in that.

 

Another thing. God called Noah righteous and blameless. The only one on the earth at that time. Yet, he later apparently inspires Paul to write that there are none that are righteous. Now, I already know the Christian answer to this one. That, when it speaks of someone being righteous, it means it in a different way than it does when it says that there are none righteous, no not one. Maybe one is righteous by human standards, and the other means righteous by God's standards. Maybe the apologists say that, maybe they don't, I don't know. But the thing about it is, God calls Noah righteous HIMSELF. Quoting the first verse in the 7th chapter of Genesis: "And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation." And that's from the KJV, because I know some Christians won't take me seriously if I keep quoting the NLT. So God himself admitted that Noah, an imperfect and "fallen" human being, was righteous IN HIS SIGHT. He was righteous. The only righteous man on the earth at that time. Then, much later, God speaks through Paul and says that no man is righteous. Besides that, this "righteous" man, after the flood, gets drunk!

 

God apparently rewarded Abram for lying, and punished Pharaoh for being the victim of that lie.

 

At that time a severe famine struck the land of Canaan, forcing Abram to go down to Egypt, where he lived as a foreigner. As he was approaching the border of Egypt, Abram said to his wife, Sarai, “Look, you are a very beautiful woman. When the Egyptians see you, they will say, ‘This is his wife. Let’s kill him; then we can have her!’ So please tell them you are my sister. Then they will spare my life and treat me well because of their interest in you.” And sure enough, when Abram arrived in Egypt, everyone spoke of Sarai’s beauty. When the palace officials saw her, they sang her praises to Pharaoh, their king, and Sarai was taken into his palace. Then Pharaoh gave Abram many gifts because of her—sheep, goats, cattle, male and female donkeys, male and female servants, and camels. But the Lord sent terrible plagues upon Pharaoh and his household because of Sarai, Abram’s wife. So Pharaoh summoned Abram and accused him sharply. “What have you done to me?” he demanded. “Why didn’t you tell me she was your wife? Why did you say, ‘She is my sister,’ and allow me to take her as my wife? Now then, here is your wife. Take her and get out of here!” Pharaoh ordered some of his men to escort them, and he sent Abram out of the country, along with his wife and all his possessions.

 

Here's something else. This really surprised me.

 

That evening the two angels came to the entrance of the city of Sodom. Lot was sitting there, and when he saw them, he stood up to meet them. Then he welcomed them and bowed with his face to the ground. “My lords,” he said, “come to my home to wash your feet, and be my guests for the night. You may then get up early in the morning and be on your way again.” “Oh no,” they replied. “We’ll just spend the night out here in the city square.” But Lot insisted, so at last they went home with him. Lot prepared a feast for them, complete with fresh bread made without yeast, and they ate. But before they retired for the night, all the men of Sodom, young and old, came from all over the city and surrounded the house. They shouted to Lot, “Where are the men who came to spend the night with you? Bring them out to us so we can have sex with them!”So Lot stepped outside to talk to them, shutting the door behind him. “Please, my brothers,” he begged, “don’t do such a wicked thing. Look, I have two virgin daughters. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do with them as you wish. But please, leave these men alone, for they are my guests and are under my protection.”

 

The above bolded text was spoken by a man that Peter called righteous.

 

Something else.. This was spoken by God when they were building the tower of Babel.

 

But the Lord came down to look at the city and the tower the people were building. “Look!” he said. “The people are united, and they all speak the same language. After this, nothing they set out to do will be impossible for them! Come, let’s go down and confuse the people with different languages. Then they won’t be able to understand each other.”

 

It almost seems like God is frightened by finite humans right there. That also seems to imply that, if they had gone on with it, they would have actually reached the heavens as they planned to.

 

One other thing, then I'll shut up. I've noticed that in the OT, God seems almost like a physical person. In many places, even in the short chapters in Genesis that I've read so far, God appaears to actually be talking with people in the flesh. When, in the NT, God is spirit, doesn't have a body, and has never been seen by anyone. He also seems to not be as "all-knowing" as he is said to be in the NT.

 

So the LORD told Abraham, "I have heard that the people of Sodom and Gomorrah are extremely evil, and that everything they do is wicked. I am going down to see whether or not these reports are true. Then I will know."

 

What's up with that?

 

I'm sure none of this is new to any of you here. Actually, for the most part, it's not even new to me. But there's something about reading it in the Bible for yourself that makes it different. I'm not sure if I really do believe this stuff anymore. That feeling probably won't last, but still.

[Shyone]

So the LORD told Abraham, "I have heard that the people of Sodom and Gomorrah are extremely evil, and that everything they do is wicked. I am going down to see whether or not these reports are true. Then I will know."

 

What's up with that?

 

I'm sure none of this is new to any of you here. Actually, for the most part, it's not even new to me. But there's something about reading it in the Bible for yourself that makes it different. I'm not sure if I really do believe this stuff anymore. That feeling probably won't last, but still.

Hey, don't knock it! It's a good yarn.

 

Kind of knocks out the whole "omnipresent" and "omniscient" thing, doesn't it? Same with the tower of Babel.

 

5. But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the men were building.

Came down? To see?

 

Wholly shit.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

So the LORD told Abraham, "I have heard that the people of Sodom and Gomorrah are extremely evil, and that everything they do is wicked. I am going down to see whether or not these reports are true. Then I will know."

 

What's up with that?

 

I'm sure none of this is new to any of you here. Actually, for the most part, it's not even new to me. But there's something about reading it in the Bible for yourself that makes it different. I'm not sure if I really do believe this stuff anymore. That feeling probably won't last, but still.

Hey, don't knock it! It's a good yarn.

 

Kind of knocks out the whole "omnipresent" and "omniscient" thing, doesn't it? Same with the tower of Babel.

 

5. But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the men were building.

Came down? To see?

 

Wholly shit.

 

That's what I'm saying.

[Guest Valk0010]

Actually i think you have hit on a good idea

 

Read the entire thing, critique the shit out of it. And see after your critique, if you can still even consider it.

 

Do something that I have not even done, read the ENTIRE BIBLE.

[MagickMonkey]

So the LORD told Abraham, "I have heard that the people of Sodom and Gomorrah are extremely evil, and that everything they do is wicked. I am going down to see whether or not these reports are true. Then I will know."

 

What's up with that?

 

I'm sure none of this is new to any of you here. Actually, for the most part, it's not even new to me. But there's something about reading it in the Bible for yourself that makes it different. I'm not sure if I really do believe this stuff anymore. That feeling probably won't last, but still.

Hey, don't knock it! It's a good yarn.

 

Kind of knocks out the whole "omnipresent" and "omniscient" thing, doesn't it? Same with the tower of Babel.

 

5. But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the men were building.

Came down? To see?

 

Wholly shit.

 

That's what I'm saying.

 

I'm guessing that during the time this was written, yahweh, or whatever the fuck he's called, was still considered just a mountain god or something. I bet the omniscient, omnipresent characteristics weren't invented yet.