Mister Pappy Posted September 5, 2010 Share Posted September 5, 2010 "how can these people be so incredibly wrong" Do you mind my asking what it is that you believe we are so wrong about, and how it is that you are so utterly convinced that we are wrong and you are right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted September 5, 2010 Share Posted September 5, 2010 "how can these people be so incredibly wrong" Do you mind my asking what it is that you believe we are so wrong about, and how it is that you are so utterly convinced that we are wrong and you are right? I don't hold anyone in contempt anymore Mr. P. I hear, on occasion, explanations of what people have been taught, and think, gheez, how could the teaching be that far off. There is nothing profound about my understanding. It just resonates for me from the very core of who I am.....not so much the Christian dogma, but more an innate protection of people from evil....particularly children. I think it is readily descernable....evil intent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Pappy Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 more an innate protection of people from evil....particularly children. I think it is readily descernable....evil intent. What do you mean by protection from evil? I am genuinely interested in understanding what you are trying to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpheliaGinger Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 A man was shot dead. Was it the exsanguination (hypovolemia), the wound, the bullet, the gun, or the shooter that killed the man? So what sends a person to Hell? The sin, the unbelief, rebellion, or God? It depends on view, doesn't it? 1. Legally, it was the man; physically, it was the bullet severing arteries and organs. 2. God, because he created the whole damned system and impossible rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 more an innate protection of people from evil....particularly children. I think it is readily descernable....evil intent. What do you mean by protection from evil? I am genuinely interested in understanding what you are trying to say. I guess there are all the standard definitions of evil....but it bothers me, like I say, on an innate level when I witness abandonment, neglect, bullying....things like this. It may be in part the way I was raised, but it feels innate. Kind of like an inner strength rises up within the situation and says, "pick me to pick on instead". Kind of heroic movie stuff, but there you are. Sounds silly, but one of my favorite movie scenes.....with Val Kilmer as Doc Holiday in Tombstone......"I'm your huckleberry"........kind of sums it up, but within a God context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Pappy Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 "I'm your huckleberry"........kind of sums it up, but within a God context. Are you saying that you think God is in some way protecting people from evil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 "I'm your huckleberry"........kind of sums it up, but within a God context. Are you saying that you think God is in some way protecting people from evil? Yes, I think so. Are the things that Israel flees from symbolic of evil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Pappy Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 Are you saying that you think God is in some way protecting people from evil? Yes, I think so. If God is protecting people from evil, as you believe, how then does he make his decisions on who to protect and who to simply ignore? For example: - The Jewish holocaust that was allowed to continue between the years of 1933 and 1945, and these were supposedly his "chosen people". - The Rwandan Genocide of 1994 where 800,000 men, women, and children were brutally hacked down with machetes. - The countless infants who die of starvation in African countries each day because UN relief is intercepted by the renegade militia of evil rulers. - The Native Americans who were forced to leave their lands and slaughtered for non compliance. - The millions of soldiers who have lost their lives during bloody political and religious wars. - Every two minutes a female is sexually assaulted in the United States alone. - This list could go on forever ... How can you possibly believe that God is protecting human beings from evil, in the face of these kinds of statistics? You name "bullying" as an "evil". I propose that perhaps God should spend more of his time with more significant issues. It seems to me that, if God is a protector at all, he is off duty most of the time. Furthermore, all the evil that has existed in our world, since the beginning of time, cannot compare to the evil that God himself has planned in the end of time for most everyone who has ever lived on earth. What you assert makes no sense whatsoever to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagickMonkey Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 Who wouldn't want eternal life? Me. I've had as much as I care for of this one, to be honest. Agreed. I'm still enjoying my life, for the most part. But the thought of an eternal, ceaseless, endless life is too painfully boring to contemplate. And if it is to be spent in the presence of that horrible character depicted as God in the Bible, no thanks, I'd rather just be dead. I would love to be immortal. I think I could even get over being in the presence of an evil god if I could spend eternity with my family and friends in paradise. Of course, one can't wish an eternal life into reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagan Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 I think we get the Christians with odd interpretations of Scripture because other Christians don't want to deal with them. We're dumb enough to listen and argue. Mainstream Christians just call them heretics and move on. I think I am caught somewhere between caring and "how can these people be so incredibly wrong". But I agree, most Christians I have attempted to visit with about atheists/deists/agnostics, etc......yes, they write y'all off pretty quickly...in about 1 to 1.5 sentences....end of conversation. So maybe we each need something from the conversation.....and unltimately, I think the best representation of caring(love) for each other is speaking the truth to one another. Anybody who starts a sentence with "I say this in love...." ...isn't. And to LNC's drivel about having the correct interpretation, isn't it great that we have a whole industry of pastors and theologians and apologists to explain the correct interpretation for us! God's master plan involved the creation of an entire employment sector! He could have just spoken in plain language to everyone throughout time and space, but no, that wacky Yahweh, he wanted to create jobs and keep people employed! Just look at the glory of it, people like LNC can go to school for six years to learn how to explain the bible the correct way, even though it's supposed to be self-evident truth, and then live a comfortable life making an income off the donations of people who earn half of what they do! What a wonderful plan! Keeping society's most useless employed for nearly 2,000 years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Donna Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 I'd just like to bring it to everyone's attention that I'm still waiting for LNC to post the specific verses he bases his interpretation of the bible on (that practicing jews will not burn in hell) so that I can examine them in the original Greek. I don't need a good English translation of the bible. I just need the verses he is referring to that support his claim. I will examine them, in context, in their original language. That way, there can be no risk of 'misinterpretation' from a badly translated English version, and we'll know for sure whether he actually has something, or is talking out of his arse. I am taking his failure to produce these verses as evidence that he is too intimidated by my knowledge of Greek to want to risk revealing that he has nothing but nice feelings to back up his position. Ball's in your court, LNC. *Twiddles thumbs* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 Anybody who starts a sentence with "I say this in love...." ...isn't. Maybe you might look up what the word "between" means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 Are you saying that you think God is in some way protecting people from evil? Yes, I think so. If God is protecting people from evil, as you believe, how then does he make his decisions on who to protect and who to simply ignore? For example: - The Jewish holocaust that was allowed to continue between the years of 1933 and 1945, and these were supposedly his "chosen people". - The Rwandan Genocide of 1994 where 800,000 men, women, and children were brutally hacked down with machetes. - The countless infants who die of starvation in African countries each day because UN relief is intercepted by the renegade militia of evil rulers. - The Native Americans who were forced to leave their lands and slaughtered for non compliance. - The millions of soldiers who have lost their lives during bloody political and religious wars. - Every two minutes a female is sexually assaulted in the United States alone. - This list could go on forever ... How can you possibly believe that God is protecting human beings from evil, in the face of these kinds of statistics? You name "bullying" as an "evil". I propose that perhaps God should spend more of his time with more significant issues. It seems to me that, if God is a protector at all, he is off duty most of the time. Furthermore, all the evil that has existed in our world, since the beginning of time, cannot compare to the evil that God himself has planned in the end of time for most everyone who has ever lived on earth. What you assert makes no sense whatsoever to me. I would ask that you consider what would be the option(s) in a post resurrection period yet before the second advent of Christ. Wouldn't we be the protection as the Body of Christ at this time? And what would the need be for any sort of judgement if God sovereignly protected humanity today from itself, the choice of evil.....wouldn't we be back to square one in the God plan....Israel being delivered from Egypt? In short, the way I understand it is that humanity had the chance for sovereign protection but didn't opt for it, both in the garden or as Israel. Now we are left with an option as we were then, to submit to love through faith in God or not. Isn't that what we wish that would happen, that Heaven were a reality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakefoot Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 The Bible doesn't say or indicate that a person is condemned for that reason; however, it does say that trusting in Jesus' death and resurrection can bring eternal life, but that is a different issue. Your personal theology be damned. What is the scriptural basis for this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdp Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 humanity had the chance for sovereign protection but didn't opt for it I never had the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagickMonkey Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 humanity had the chance for sovereign protection but didn't opt for it I never had the chance. Yeah, if we are going to each be individually judged, we should each individually be given the choice. And it should be a choice that benefits from irrefutable information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sconnor Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 Are you saying that you think God is in some way protecting people from evil? Yes, I think so. If God is protecting people from evil, as you believe, how then does he make his decisions on who to protect and who to simply ignore? For example: - The Jewish holocaust that was allowed to continue between the years of 1933 and 1945, and these were supposedly his "chosen people". - The Rwandan Genocide of 1994 where 800,000 men, women, and children were brutally hacked down with machetes. - The countless infants who die of starvation in African countries each day because UN relief is intercepted by the renegade militia of evil rulers. - The Native Americans who were forced to leave their lands and slaughtered for non compliance. - The millions of soldiers who have lost their lives during bloody political and religious wars. - Every two minutes a female is sexually assaulted in the United States alone. - This list could go on forever ... How can you possibly believe that God is protecting human beings from evil, in the face of these kinds of statistics? You name "bullying" as an "evil". I propose that perhaps God should spend more of his time with more significant issues. It seems to me that, if God is a protector at all, he is off duty most of the time. Furthermore, all the evil that has existed in our world, since the beginning of time, cannot compare to the evil that God himself has planned in the end of time for most everyone who has ever lived on earth. What you assert makes no sense whatsoever to me. I would ask that you consider what would be the option(s) in a post resurrection period yet before the second advent of Christ. Wouldn't we be the protection as the Body of Christ at this time? And what would the need be for any sort of judgement if God sovereignly protected humanity today from itself, the choice of evil.....wouldn't we be back to square one in the God plan....Israel being delivered from Egypt? In short, the way I understand it is that humanity had the chance for sovereign protection but didn't opt for it, both in the garden or as Israel. Now we are left with an option as we were then, to submit to love through faith in God or not. Isn't that what we wish that would happen, that Heaven were a reality? More scrambled-brain, wishy-washy, logic from the consummate bullshit artist -- end. First this question was posed: Mr. Pappy asked, are you saying that you think God is in some way protecting people from evil? End answered, Yes, I think so. Now end is back-peddling, telling us now god is not protecting us from evil but instead we (humanity) is in charge of protection. Which one is it? Is god protecting us from evil or are we? And once again, (and this is the most important) How in the fuck do you know this and how do you substantiate these outlandish claims about god’s will and character? But as we ALL know, you can NOT substantiate ANYTHING you say, which still places you firmly in the corner with the rest of the whack-job christians who make foundationless, unsubstantied, bullshit claims. Oh, and regarding post # 40, I noticed you’re still employing the kindergarten defense by plugging your ears with your index fingers – repeating nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, I can’t here you; in a pathetic effort to protect your floundering beliefs. Can’t blame you really – your beliefs and unsubstantiated bullshit claims about god’s will and character are built on the foundation of horse-diarrhea. You got NOTHING to offer but unsubstantiated hot-air – you........have......NO credibility. --S. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 An example of God protecting people immediately with His sovereign power would be the Red Sea story. Today, the church would be responsible for the protection....by acting to protect those that should need it. And don't tell me about all the abusive priets, the bad people. Everyone gets judged by Christ.....Christians first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 Are you saying that you think God is in some way protecting people from evil? Yes, I think so. If God is protecting people from evil, as you believe, how then does he make his decisions on who to protect and who to simply ignore? For example: - The Jewish holocaust that was allowed to continue between the years of 1933 and 1945, and these were supposedly his "chosen people". - The Rwandan Genocide of 1994 where 800,000 men, women, and children were brutally hacked down with machetes. - The countless infants who die of starvation in African countries each day because UN relief is intercepted by the renegade militia of evil rulers. - The Native Americans who were forced to leave their lands and slaughtered for non compliance. - The millions of soldiers who have lost their lives during bloody political and religious wars. - Every two minutes a female is sexually assaulted in the United States alone. - This list could go on forever ... How can you possibly believe that God is protecting human beings from evil, in the face of these kinds of statistics? You name "bullying" as an "evil". I propose that perhaps God should spend more of his time with more significant issues. It seems to me that, if God is a protector at all, he is off duty most of the time. Furthermore, all the evil that has existed in our world, since the beginning of time, cannot compare to the evil that God himself has planned in the end of time for most everyone who has ever lived on earth. What you assert makes no sense whatsoever to me. I would ask that you consider what would be the option(s) in a post resurrection period yet before the second advent of Christ. Wouldn't we be the protection as the Body of Christ at this time? And what would the need be for any sort of judgement if God sovereignly protected humanity today from itself, the choice of evil.....wouldn't we be back to square one in the God plan....Israel being delivered from Egypt? In short, the way I understand it is that humanity had the chance for sovereign protection but didn't opt for it, both in the garden or as Israel. Now we are left with an option as we were then, to submit to love through faith in God or not. Isn't that what we wish that would happen, that Heaven were a reality? More scrambled-brain, wishy-washy, logic from the consummate bullshit artist -- end. First this question was posed: Mr. Pappy asked, are you saying that you think God is in some way protecting people from evil? End answered, Yes, I think so. Now end is back-peddling, telling us now god is not protecting us from evil but instead we (humanity) is in charge of protection. Which one is it? Is god protecting us from evil or are we? And once again, (and this is the most important) How in the fuck do you know this and how do you substantiate these outlandish claims about god’s will and character? But as we ALL know, you can NOT substantiate ANYTHING you say, which still places you firmly in the corner with the rest of the whack-job christians who make foundationless, unsubstantied, bullshit claims. Oh, and regarding post # 40, I noticed you’re still employing the kindergarten defense by plugging your ears with your index fingers – repeating nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, I can’t here you; in a pathetic effort to protect your floundering beliefs. Can’t blame you really – your beliefs and unsubstantiated bullshit claims about god’s will and character are built on the foundation of horse-diarrhea. You got NOTHING to offer but unsubstantiated hot-air – you........have......NO credibility. --S. That makes three of you incapable of understanding something so fucking simplistic..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Pappy Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 In short, the way I understand it is that humanity had the chance for sovereign protection but didn't opt for it You are the one who made the claim, very clearly and boldly, that God is protecting mankind from evil. Please don't try and weasel out of what you said to begin with by now saying that man failed to select the correct option on his God insurance - for Pete's sake! You shouldn't trouble yourself, if this is the route you wish to travel, I have no interest in following you on your mentally unstable journey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Pappy Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 That makes three of you incapable of understanding something so fucking simplistic..... Okay, I get it now ... you are a nut job. It just came to me. Your sentences are incoherent. You can't carry focus across more than 1/3 of a paragraph. Conversation over. I don't have the correct degree to help you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 In short, the way I understand it is that humanity had the chance for sovereign protection but didn't opt for it You are the one who made the claim, very clearly and boldly, that God is protecting mankind from evil. Please don't try and weasel out of what you said to begin with by now saying that man failed to select the correct option on his God insurance - for Pete's sake! You shouldn't trouble yourself, if this is the route you wish to travel, I have no interest in following you on your mentally unstable journey. Well, that make four of you......Jesus....the story describes Heaven....heck, it even describe a promise land in the OT....the stones brought across the Jordan....set up on the other side...the foundation. But can you boneheads invision this as the New Jerusalem, the protection being delivered to a promise land, the foundation of the twelve apostles and house built of living stones that are not corrupt. NO, you can't. It's all here and now, ignoring all things pointing to a reality you can't fucking invision. BLIND it says.......go fucking figure you probably ignore that too. Idiots....most of you. Edit: Rom 12:19 Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay,"says the Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 That makes three of you incapable of understanding something so fucking simplistic..... Okay, I get it now ... you are a nut job. It just came to me. Your sentences are incoherent. You can't carry focus across more than 1/3 of a paragraph. Conversation over. I don't have the correct degree to help you. There are a number of people here that have an understanding of what I am attempting to convey dumbass. Please feel free to start another remedial conversation at you leisure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdp Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 Everyone gets judged by Christ I don't, since I've already abandoned the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 Let me explain it in a nice story.....well, the bullies are chasing the nice children home from school. The nice children run into the refuge of the house that their father built. The people that reside in the house then contribute to affording protection for the residents that believe in the purpose of the house. Dad says, "don't hurt the bullies while I am gone, because I am coming back to evaluate your actions as well as theirs". This is so simple, I think even Sconnor can understand. Edit: wait, let me give you some more clues.....the bullies would be those opposed to Christ. The nice children would be Christians. The Father, aka Dad, would be Christ. And the house would be the church. Edit Edit: a quicky verse that gives man authority to manage the confict via the Holy Spirit... Mar 6:7 Calling the Twelve to him, he sent them out two by two and gave them authority over evil spirits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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