Not Feeling Happy

[Vigile]

He said it isn't the "same". Because he believes my skipping church hurts our family. But him skipping Dawkins wouldn't hurt our family. Well. I disagree- but we had too many other topics going, so I let that one go.

 

This is a somewhat valid response if you see things from his angle. It raises a huge question, that is difficult to answer.

 

You went into your marriage, I'm betting, with an agreement to raise your kids a certain way. The dynamics have changed. You still have an equal right to live and influence your kids as you see fit, but how you do so changed when you lost your faith. This is something that you can't help.

 

Ultimately, it's my belief that you will now influence them for the better, even if it's simply by a quiet example. Having been a hard-core believer once, I'm not sure how your husband can reconcile this new influence with his current belief system.

 

It's my hope that he is simply just going through an adjustment phase as you suggested and that he can be flexible like I know some other spouses have been for members on this site. Unfortunately, how he responds going forward largely depends on he himself and the kind of person he is. Is he a typically inflexible person that is simply just dealing with a new situation outside his comfort zone?

 

Either way, you have a responsibility to yourself. Moreover, know that the new example you are setting for your kids is ultimately healthier for them and their development even if your husband can never agree/compromise/or come to terms with the new you. Don't let him crush your spirit or guilt you into pretending for the sake of your kids when "the sake of the kids" is simply his misguided assumption.

 

Wish I could be more help.

[MagickMonkey]

He said it isn't the "same". Because he believes my skipping church hurts our family. But him skipping Dawkins wouldn't hurt our family. Well. I disagree- but we had too many other topics going, so I let that one go.

 

This is a somewhat valid response if you see things from his angle. It raises a huge question, that is difficult to answer.

 

You went into your marriage, I'm betting, with an agreement to raise your kids a certain way. The dynamics have changed. You still have an equal right to live and influence your kids as you see fit, but how you do so changed when you lost your faith. This is something that you can't help.

 

Ultimately, it's my belief that you will now influence them for the better, even if it's simply by a quiet example. Having been a hard-core believer once, I'm not sure how your husband can reconcile this new influence with his current belief system.

 

It's my hope that he is simply just going through an adjustment phase as you suggested and that he can be flexible like I know some other spouses have been for members on this site. Unfortunately, how he responds going forward largely depends on he himself and the kind of person he is. Is he a typically inflexible person that is simply just dealing with a new situation outside his comfort zone?

 

Either way, you have a responsibility to yourself. Moreover, know that the new example you are setting for your kids is ultimately healthier for them and their development even if your husband can never agree/compromise/or come to terms with the new you. Don't let him crush your spirit or guilt you into pretending for the sake of your kids when "the sake of the kids" is simply his misguided assumption.

 

Wish I could be more help.

 

Your right, he's trying to save his kids from eternal damnation, and she want to save them from wasting their lives on a stupid fairy tale as well as be herself. How do you convince him to increase the risk that his kids will go to hell?

[Vigile]

Unfortunately, not going to church may not influence your kids to think on their own. My grandfather on my father's side was an atheist and very outspoken against church and outwardly angry with religion. My father's mother took him to church while my grandfather stayed home. My dad ended up following in his mom's footsteps and is a fundy to this day; the same is true with his sister, my aunt.

[Phanta]

Unfortunately, not going to church may not influence your kids to think on their own. My grandfather on my father's side was an atheist and very outspoken against church and outwardly angry with religion. My father's mother took him to church while my grandfather stayed home. My dad ended up following in his mom's footsteps and is a fundy to this day; the same is true with his sister, my aunt.

 

Some people just need things it offers.

[Vigile]

Unfortunately, not going to church may not influence your kids to think on their own. My grandfather on my father's side was an atheist and very outspoken against church and outwardly angry with religion. My father's mother took him to church while my grandfather stayed home. My dad ended up following in his mom's footsteps and is a fundy to this day; the same is true with his sister, my aunt.

 

Some people just need things it offers.

 

I agree with this, but I don't think it's the case with my father. Rather, I think he is simply just a victim to the mind virus. He's not a deeply spiritual person like those who need such a thing. He's just not been given the right tools to see through the deception. I don't know why. I suspect it comes down to the fact there has never been an impetus to acquire them. He is the kind of person that doesn't like bucking the trend or making waves. You can imagine the disappointment I have been to him given the fact I am that type of person. He's been a real sport about it though despite his own inclinations. All in all, he's a very good man who I hold a great deal of respect for despite the fact I don't respect his beliefs.

[foolish girl]

My Husband is a "Rut guy", in every way- to answer a question from above. You see he figured everything out by the time he was 25 and now he doesn't have to worry about it anymore. Drive particular roads, get ready for work in the morning, ordering food from a menu- it is all decided. With some exceptions, which are always exciting. (He does stay creative in bed, so +1 for him

 

Anywho...

.......as far as influence goes, I think the story about the grandfather just demonstrates that people don't listen to ANGRY people. I do think that I can influence my children. They listen to me more than they listen to him. That is why he is glad that I have been silent.

 

I have been in covert ops though. Here and there.

 

He said That he feels like i have been incrementally leading him towards "something".

First I share doubt, nothing changes

then I share disbeleif, Still go sunday morning, quit all other church events

Then I don't want to go Sunday

what is next?

Talking openly to the kids.

And maybe he is right, but it hasn't been a plan. I just didn't want to drop a bomb on his life, I guess....

[Vigile]

as far as influence goes, I think the story about the grandfather just demonstrates that people don't listen to ANGRY people.

 

That's true, but I don't think I fairly portrayed him if that's the point that came across. He was one of the kindest people I've every know; not to mention smartest. I was just pointing out that he didn't just sit quietly on the side, he made his opinions known, though didn't drill them in. I guess, I was trying to show that your husband has little to worry about if it's influence he's concerned with when considering your church attendance.

[foolish girl]

as far as influence goes, I think the story about the grandfather just demonstrates that people don't listen to ANGRY people.

 

That's true, but I don't think I fairly portrayed him if that's the point that came across. He was one of the kindest people I've every know; not to mention smartest. I was just pointing out that he didn't just sit quietly on the side, he made his opinions known, though didn't drill them in. I guess, I was trying to show that your husband has little to worry about if it's influence he's concerned with when considering your church attendance.

 

Oh, I see!

well crap! lol

 

*head in hands*

 

I see a future wherein I am a pariah. I do. They will be praying for my salvation and judging me.

 

I don't want to be with him or without him sometimes. I think I will just take this damn thing one day at a time.

[stryper]

 

Duly noted Stryper.

I want you to know that I will never, ever put up with that kind of shit.

His issue is temper, and it only comes up in this situation. I was concerned when he was surprised that "I" was angry with HIM over Sunday's episode. That concerns me. Seems a little out of touch.

I told him it was hateful. The look in the eyes, the volume, the slamming door. He continuously contests the use of the word "hateful". Cause he doesn't have hate for me. I told him "well that is what I SAW."

I am more concerned about being an emotional hostage (unable to speak freely) than I am about the anger though. I think he is going thru stages and maybe just reached anger. I am hoping acceptance is around the corner.

 

 

The bolded parts were what my father caused.

 

I remember one day. My sister was in the kitchen and my mother walked in and asked why the ham was out. My sister said she didn't get it out. So my mom started to get upset because it was a decent amount of meat that could have been ruined. My dad comes home about that time. I was in my room. My mother tells him what was going on and he starts to lose it. He asks my sister again. She said no again. He came up to my room and asked me, I said I ddin't know what he was talking about. He stated somebody was lying to him gets that HATEFUL look on his face. He goes back to the kitchen and starts yell at my sister. My mother for some inexplicable reason was washing dishes. He starts threathening and yelling louder. My sister was trapped and couldn't get away. I started to walk down stairs. I peeked around the corner from the stairs. I could only see my dad's back and my sisters legs. They were literally shaking in fear. I froze and walked back up stairs and pretened to ignore everything.

 

He never hit her. He just stormed up stairs and slammed his bedroom door. Then salmmed it again as he we to the basement to do something useless.

 

My sister lay on the floor of kitchen crying. My mother continued to wash dishes. I walked into the kitchen lifted the foil off the ham and realized it was still ice cold.

 

My mother never stood her ground till right before their divorce. She does not remember that incident. To this day, my sister and I both remember that incident very clearly and it had life altering affects. To dad, it was Tuesday.

 

To this day, My hands still shake remembering it. I couldn't even help my sister get up off the floor. I just put the ham away and did my homework or read in my room to scared to do anything to draw attention to myself.

 

I know what its like to be there. It doesn' t matter if its religion or a stupid ham. When people get angry to where they can only express themselves through violent acts, it can escalate very quickly. It will have an effect on all parties in the household.

 

Do not back down. Be smart. Be calm. Be assertive. Do not back down.

 

I only wish my mother could've.

[Vigile]

as far as influence goes, I think the story about the grandfather just demonstrates that people don't listen to ANGRY people.

 

That's true, but I don't think I fairly portrayed him if that's the point that came across. He was one of the kindest people I've every know; not to mention smartest. I was just pointing out that he didn't just sit quietly on the side, he made his opinions known, though didn't drill them in. I guess, I was trying to show that your husband has little to worry about if it's influence he's concerned with when considering your church attendance.

 

Oh, I see!

well crap! lol

 

*head in hands*

 

I see a future wherein I am a pariah. I do. They will be praying for my salvation and judging me.

 

I don't want to be with him or without him sometimes. I think I will just take this damn thing one day at a time.

 

That was my grandfather. They, and even I, prayed for his salvation. My family isn't really judgmental fortunately, but we all worried for his salvation. I even wrote a heart-felt letter to him when I was 18 pleading with him to accept the "truth." He handled it all with grace and seemed pretty proud when I finally came to my senses. I'm the only one, so I'm sure it was meaningful to him.

[foolish girl]

Stryper,

 

I had many similar incidents, only the perpetrator was my mother. I'm sorry about the damn ham. Congratulations on your parents divorce.

 

 

I earnestly hope that my husband is working through anger to acceptance.

Funny story. When I was telling him how I feel at church, aggravated, isolated, irritated, angry, trapped, bored...he said "Well, we aren't animals! You can choose not to indulge those feelings" (or something like that)

 

I said, "Well, if we are not animals why did you act like one when I told you, very nicely, that I was going to stay home??!!".....

 

I don't remember his response- it was like "WEll...ahhh"

 

I laughed and said "see how I did that? it's like a gun! turned it around on ya!"...lol

 

*SIGH*

[foolish girl]

another sunday draws nigh.

[MagickMonkey]

another sunday draws nigh.

 

Don't give in. Be strong.

[ShackledNoMore]

FG,

 

Hang in there. I know this is difficult. I agree with the others that this is something you need to stand your ground on.

 

In the mean time, I would foster thinking skills for the kids. Not necessarily just in matters of religion, but for everything: if they learn to think critically they will apply what they've learned in all areas.

 

Contrary to your husband, I think the danger "to the family" (and its individual members--your family or any family) is the mindset that they need to do what it takes to appease a god because mommy and daddy taught them that the god was real. We've all seen what this can do, from fear of hell and other neuroses while figuring out what god wants from us, to abdication of our own responsibilities while waiting on god, to crusading against others who do not conform to our personal vision of god. You are a target of a form of the latter, and that's what's stressing the family.

[Guest riverrunner]

you need to discuss before tomorrow morning - and not tonight at bedtime!

[foolish girl]

Yes.

 

Today I was looking back on my life. I am really good at hindesight. I am good at learning from my mistakes and avoiding repeating them. Good at giving advice....But I wonder how good I am at avoiding mistakes?

 

How do I know what I will see as a mistake later?

 

Personal integrity leading to the breakdown of my marriage .....would it be worth it?

 

Swallowing integrity, learning to deal......seeming happy, but feeling resentment.

 

ugh

 

We have a tummy virus in our house. People are dropping like flies. I had it yesterday. I may get out of church by default. I know that isn't good enough though. Usually after a clash of wills like this we talk and then I feel better.

 

I haven't felt better this time.

 

I feel apart from him and it is kind of breaking my heart ( a little bit ). I know a lot of closeness in a relationship comes from our inner dialogue. You know what you tell yourself about the other person. I guess this week it has been easier to think nothing, than to make myself think positively. I am not mentally beating him up. I just feel a little bit numb.

 

bah.

Thanks for always listening everyone.

[dB-Paradox]

Unfortunately, not going to church may not influence your kids to think on their own. My grandfather on my father's side was an atheist and very outspoken against church and outwardly angry with religion. My father's mother took him to church while my grandfather stayed home. My dad ended up following in his mom's footsteps and is a fundy to this day; the same is true with his sister, my aunt.

 

Okay, hang on a sec. I'm finding this a bit hard to believe. You're trying to tell me that your dad's sister is your aunt?

[Guest riverrunner]

well heading to church today. at least we are going skiing after.

 

update: dw decided just skiing was good enough - yay!

[bagbear]

So sorry for your family tension, Hope you and your husband reach a truce finally. I don't hate church so much, but I can see what you feel at church. When I was a schoolboy in primary school, the most repulsive thing is that there was a routine study of politics every Tuesday afternoon, everyone must be present without any exception. Sometimes it took place in classroom, our teacher gave us a toxic Communist lesson, sometimes the headmaster spouted his venom to all of us in school playground. Do you know how I felt? That's aggravated, isolated, irritated, angry, trapped, bored... and desperate. And believe me, those Communist crap was ten times more toxic than Christianity. Fortunately, when the 1990s was coming, those crap vanished in time.

 

Again, hope you will be fine.

 

 

[foolish girl]

I caved.

10 yr old and 12 yr old noticed that I didn't take communion. Haven't taken it since August.

Everytime there was a prayer I just stared at a fixed spot. I noticed the kids look at me.

Conversations are coming down the pipeline.

I think I do more damage to his cause at church. i really do.
I am not kidding myself though. I didn't go as a master plan. I went because I didn't know how not to.

[Vigile]

Unfortunately, not going to church may not influence your kids to think on their own. My grandfather on my father's side was an atheist and very outspoken against church and outwardly angry with religion. My father's mother took him to church while my grandfather stayed home. My dad ended up following in his mom's footsteps and is a fundy to this day; the same is true with his sister, my aunt.

 

Okay, hang on a sec. I'm finding this a bit hard to believe. You're trying to tell me that your dad's sister is your aunt?

 

Just call me Captain Obvious.

[MagickMonkey]

 

 

 

I caved.

 

10 yr old and 12 yr old noticed that I didn't take communion. Haven't taken it since August.

 

Everytime there was a prayer I just stared at a fixed spot. I noticed the kids look at me.

 

Conversations are coming down the pipeline.

 

I think I do more dmage to his cause at churhc. i really do.

I am not kidding myself though. I didn't go as a master plan. I went because I didn't know how not to.

 

Well, don't beat yourself up too much for going. I sure won't, and I don't think anyone else will. As far as going or not going is concerned, your only obligation is to yourself.

[Theif of Faith]

Deep sigh. No easy answers here. It will be a painful process however you do it. I am sending hugs to you.

 

I'm sorry you felt you had to sit through it again. At some point, I decided it wasn't worth the anger I felt toward my husband (and all of Christendom) to sit through it ever again. What a relief that such an expectation has been lifted from me. Keep trudging. You'll get there.

 

Love you.

 

 

[ilovemybrain]

What a beautiful song. Hold your own. Hang on.

 

I wish he knew how he is squashing you. The only way through this is through it. Lots of talking together, loving him but making him understand you, and listening to him too. And if you need to keep going to church, do what you need to do but you have sisters and friends who know the real you, and love you as you are. DH loves you too, and needs to adjust to your changes though, and hopefully you will find balance. We are always here for you when you need to rant, cry, laugh, get all bad-ass, or whatever.

[ShackledNoMore]

I caved.

You've been navigating through a tough situation, pressured, and without easy answers. Don't be hard on yourself.

 

As with your other friends here, you have my ear and support, too.