Answered Prayer

[Mad_Gerbil]

I was watching a video of a sermon on 1 Peter -- I forget the speaker's name -- anyways, he's a long time pastor and he got to talking about answered prayer. I know that topic is a hot topic for many people here -- if I recall correctly, some here left the faith because of unanswered prayers.

 

Anyways, a fellow got quiet sick in this guys church and so a group of men got together and prayed about it. They seriously prayed about it -- not the flimsy half hearted prayers that exchristians offer up (1)-- this was serious True Christian prayer. Not only that, but several people fasted.

 

Two days later the man died.

 

 

In 35 years of attending church that is the FIRST time I've ever heard a pastor relate a story about serious prayer not producing the desired results. What I like about the story is that instead of the pie in the sky typical of preaching it actually matched several Biblical examples. (See Job, Paul's Thorn in the Flesh, David's prayer for his son, etc.)

 

The Faith has never been about making life easy. It has never been about getting in touch with sky daddy so that everything would go well. It has never been a celestial get rich quick scheme. The verse "..Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death..." doesn't make sense unless one actually walks through such a place.

 

(It is my understanding this is now the 'Anything Goes' forum so this doesn't have to be a debate topic. If I'm wrong about that, please PM me and direct me to the right forum.)

 

 

 

-------------------------------------

NOTES:

1: That is a joke, people.

[Ouroboros]

Couldn't you say that they got an answer? The man got to go to a better place! (according to your faith)

 

Anyway. The prayer that concerned me that I didn't get answer on, was not the healing of my son or any material thing.

Those things and the depression they caused, did inflict my faith and diminished my faith, that is true, but when my faith was pretty much gone, and there was just a slight fraction left (only a will to believe, but no feeling of belief), my only prayer was for God to give me more faith. And I don't see why that would be the hardest test on God? "God give me faith!" is a cry for help to maintain the faith in him that he wants us to have. And according to the Bible, faith is a gift from God, it's supernatural too. And why can't God give that? "I can't believe, God give me faith!" doesn't work, unless you already have faith in God, which is in effect circular. You can only get what you already have.

 

Explain that to me MG.

[MQTA]

So the prayers were answered? The man died. That's an answer.

 

The response is, he's in a much better place, if he lived he'd have suffered hell-like pain.

[BeccasStillSeeking]

The Faith has never been about making life easy.  It has never been about getting in touch with sky daddy so that everything would go well.  It has never been a celestial get rich quick scheme.  The verse "..Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death..." doesn't make sense unless one actually walks through such a place.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This seems vaguely aimed at me, and all other ex-Cs who left due to extreme disappointment.

 

You know, your argument would make considerably more sense if the "prayers not getting answered" were for selfish things, like money, beauty or what have you. And if, like in this case, the "prayers not getting answered" was a single incident.

 

Let me ask you something.

 

Are you honestly saying that during all the years of my abuse, while I was turning the other cheek even during schoolyard beatings, honoring and obeying a psychotic bitch who literally tried to kill me once, and otherwise being a Victim for Christ, unquestioningly and full of devotion (and lots of pain)...during all those years that my only experience of God was all those hours I spent nightly sobbing out desperate prayers for nothing more selfish than hope, comfort, or a sense of being acknowledged, with nothing but ringing silence in return...during all that time of God's Silence when I needed Him the most...FOR TWENTY DAMNED YEARS....I didn't deserve at least a pittance of a fucking answer to sustain me? Especially since I never even asked for anything as "selfish" as "please make Mom stop hurting me"? And somehow, myself and those like me are all a bunch of whiny cop-outs for expecting better?

 

Please, go on, I want to see for myself just how much of a rationalizing asshole you really are.

 

 

I'd also like to see YOUR ass go through something like this and come out with your faith intact. I don't think you could do it for HALF as long.

 

Bastard.

[Mr. Neil]

It would seem that God had a plan for that man. God has a plan for all people. God wanted that man in Heaven. It seems to me that if you pray to God to save someone's life, you're asking God to change his plan. That being the case, I think the answer to any prayer would be a big fat "NO".

 

On the other hand, if you pray for someone to live, and that person survives, it wasn't because of your prayer. It's just a coincidence that you prayed for something that was part of God's plan. God would have let him live anyway, because it wasn't his time. God's plan all along was for that person to live longer.

 

Hey, I just had a thought. Is it part of God's plan for people to pray for things that won't ever happen?

[Casey]

In 35 years of attending church that is the FIRST time I've ever heard a pastor relate a story about serious prayer not producing the desired results. What I like about the story is that instead of the pie in the sky typical of preaching it actually matched several Biblical examples. (See Job, Paul's Thorn in the Flesh, David's prayer for his son, etc.)

 

Well, it makes a change from all those stories about people growing an extra inch on a crippled leg or suddenly being able to pay their bills because money was miraculously deposited into their empty bank accounts. I never saw the point of such minor magic anyway. Rather than pay tithes to a church, why not buy oneself a lucky charm? One will only be out whatever it cost, and if it doesn't work, one can always get a supposedly stronger charm.

 

In 35 years of attending church that is the FIRST time I've ever heard a pastor relate a story about serious prayer not producing the desired results. What I like about the story is that instead of the pie in the sky typical of preaching it actually matched several Biblical examples. (See Job, Paul's Thorn in the Flesh, David's prayer for his son, etc.)

 

All these being examples of heroic failures eh? Then the new testament goes on to say that with faith one can move mountains etc etc. "Ask and ye shall receive", remember. I suppose in my case I shouldn't have bothered; I only wanted a very small thing, small when compared to life and death issues. I never got it and was told by christians to be content with my lot. There's a thing now. There is a parable whose moral is inter alia, "If you can't be trusted in small things, how can you be trusted in great?"

 

I wouldn't argue with that, it makes sense. Over the years, I realised I'd learned a valuable lesson. If god wouldn't do such a small thing for me; if I couldn't rely on him in such a small matter, how was I to trust him with anything more serious? The simple answer was I couldn't rely on him or trust him in matters great or small, and I still don't. Nor do I trust others who tell me what a difference god has made in their lives one way or another.

 

The Faith has never been about making life easy. It has never been about getting in touch with sky daddy so that everything would go well. It has never been a celestial get rich quick scheme.

 

Oral Roberts, Benny Hinn, Pat Robertson and a few others might disagree with you there. They sure enough lead easy lives, don't they? To be as wealthy as they are they must surely be on good terms with the man upstairs ? Otherwise why would he have blessed 'em with legions of suckers who give and give and give, all in the hope of getting in touch with the sky daddy you mentioned?

Casey

[sixoverme]

this is what my father, the Church of God preacher would say...they prayed that god would heal the man...he did heal him...the ultimate healing...he gave him a new heavenly body free of disease...the problem here is (and this has been itterated elsewhere) how "god" answers prayer...i have always been taught that there are 3 answers to prayer...yes, no and wait for gods timing...wtf?!?!...how the fuck do you want me to believe in a god that has that easy of an out?...its circular logic...people ask "why hasnt god answered my prayers" and there you go...he hasnt not answered your prayers....hes either said no, or hes said wait! how fucking convenient!...and i have to agree with Han and Becca...most people who leave the faith the way we have, leave because they DONT BELIEVE!!!...not because we are hurt...but because THE SHIT WE CALL RELIGION DOESNT WORK! ITS A CON! We studied to show ourselves approved and found Him lacking!! Oh and by the way...many of our last prayers were pretty much comprised of this sentiment..."god, if youre really out there...show me...show me what you want from me...show me your face...show me why i feel this emptiness inside...just show me!!"...and you know want...he did answer us...he said no

[Checkmate]

Back during the Dark Times, when I was a Charismatic [shiver!], I was a big fan of T.D. Jakes. Jakes taught that prayer was NOT a means to make god do your bidding. (A convenient rationale to explain away the failure of "answered prayer".) He instead taught that prayer was the mechanism of making the believer match up to god's will. In other words, the purpose of prayer was to change YOU, the believer.

 

Of course, NO SUCH DRIVEL is taught anywhere IN scripture. But does that stop Christians from saying it? Hell no!

 

Scripture says, "Ask and it shall be given unto you". It says, "Ask anything in Jesus' name and THAT he will do for you." It says, "If you have faith as small as a mustard seed" you can move mountains.

 

Not one word about prayer changing you.

 

So why does Jakes get away with this teaching? Because of the "god's will" aspect. Rather than praying for what YOU will, you are now supposed to get on "god's" program and pray what HE wants/wills. "Nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will", Jesus prayed in the garden of Gethsemane.

 

So what the fuck is the point of asking for anything, if you can only get what "god" wants?

 

Prayer is pointless, Christians. Just skip straight to "god's will" and cut out the middle man.

 

 

 

Or better yet...just become an atheist and not bother with the dumb shit!

[Cerise]

I was watching a video of a sermon on 1 Peter -- I forget the speaker's name -- anyways, he's a long time pastor and he got to talking about answered prayer.  I know that topic is a hot topic for many people here -- if I recall correctly, some here left the faith because of unanswered prayers.

 

Anyways, a fellow got quiet sick in this guys church and so a group of men got together and prayed about it.  They seriously prayed about it -- not the flimsy half hearted prayers that exchristians offer up (1)-- this was serious True Christian prayer.  Not only that, but several people fasted.

 

Two days later the man died.

 

 

In 35 years of attending church that is the FIRST time I've ever heard a pastor relate a story about serious prayer not producing the desired results.  What I like about the story is that instead of the pie in the sky typical of preaching it actually matched several Biblical examples.  (See Job, Paul's Thorn in the Flesh, David's prayer for his son, etc.)

 

The Faith has never been about making life easy.  It has never been about getting in touch with sky daddy so that everything would go well.  It has never been a celestial get rich quick scheme.  The verse "..Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death..." doesn't make sense unless one actually walks through such a place.

 

(It is my understanding this is now the 'Anything Goes' forum so this doesn't have to be a debate topic.  If I'm wrong about that, please PM me and direct me to the right forum.)

-------------------------------------

NOTES:

1: That is a joke, people.

 

Have you, in your biblical studies, ever encountered an example in which someone prayed for faith and yet did not recieve?

 

Neither, Job, nor Paul, nor David. Neither Ruth, nor Moses, nor Joseph. Neither Mary, Miriam, the Bitter One. Nor the Magdalena.

 

Who has asked for the strength to believe and has not been answered? And why, in this most important of all things, is there no help from god?

 

This was no valley of the shadow of death. At least those who can still hear the voice of a god can "fear no evil". The abandoned children walk in silence. And though they plead for faith there is no answer, for he hath given them up and turned his back.

 

The Sea of Faith

Was once, too, at the full, and round earth's shore

Lay like the folds of a bright girdle furl'd.

But now I only hear

Its melancholy, long, withdrawing roar,

Retreating, to the breath

Of the night-wind, down the vast edges drear

And naked shingles of the world...

 

And we are here as on a darkling plain

Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight,

Where ignorant armies clash by night.

 

- Arnold

[Mad_Gerbil]

My post wasn't 'aimed at anyone' in particular, although I do wonder how much better off everyone would be without the prosperity gospel nonsense going 'round.

 

As for the 'praying for more faith' prayer, that one throws me. I dunno why when some people get to the end of their rope they chose to continue to believe and others do not.

 

I didn't really get serious about my faith until I went to college and it was at that time that things really got crazy bad -- so I wrote out a whole list of everything that was going bad (everything) and I decided to believe anyways. Why it is that people had similar lists and didn't believe anyways -- even after praying for faith -- is beyond me. I spent 3-4 nights a week for months just crying in the dark.

 

I'll ask a question: Why did you pray for faith? Why did you want faith? (anyone can answer).

[sixoverme]

3-4 months? try 10 years of no still small voice...10 years of emptyness where gods presence used to be...we pray for faith because when your whole life revolves around faith...your friends, family, school, work...everything revolved around your church...and all you can think of is that god has left you in the dark and your only answer is that you need to have faith...and guess what..you dont fucking have anything...so instead of just walking away (many of us cant just walk away at first...its not as easy as you may think), we pray for more faith...we just want things back to being normal...but they will never be back to normal.,..were like the kid who suddenly realizes hes smarter than everyone else and tries their damndest to keep it from everyone else in school so he doesnt become the one that gets ritually beat up on the playground...we have seen the light but that doesnt mean we always want to go towards it...sometimes we just want things the easy way...im sorry if i seem like im pissed...i just dont think you realize how much it has taken for some of us to come to the decisions weve made...its not just some flippant decision we made off the cuff...or on a whim...im sure youre hard times were hard too...but to assume that your pain was equal or any more than anyone else and that you cant understand why they would choose to walk away...thats just it...we didnt choose to walk away..we just couldnt live the lie any more...we have seen the truth and the truth has set us free

[Mad_Gerbil]

3-4 months? try 10 years of no still small voice...10 years of emptyness where gods presence used to be...we pray for faith because when your whole life revolves around faith...your friends, family, school, work...everything revolved around your church...and all you can think of is that god has left you in the dark and your only answer is that you need to have faith...and guess what..you dont fucking have anything...so instead of just walking away (many of us cant just walk away at first...its not as easy as you may think), we pray for more faith...we just want things back to being normal...but they will never be back to normal.,..were like the kid who suddenly realizes hes smarter than everyone else and tries their damndest to keep it from everyone else in school so he doesnt become the one that gets ritually beat up on the playground...we have seen the light but that doesnt mean we always want to go towards it...sometimes we just want things the easy way...im sorry if i seem like im pissed...i just dont think you realize how much it has taken for some of us to come to the decisions weve made...its not just some flippant decision we made off the cuff...or on a whim...im sure youre hard times were hard too...but to assume that your pain was equal or any more than anyone else and that you cant understand why they would choose to walk away...thats just it...we didnt choose to walk away..we just couldnt live the lie any more...we have seen the truth and the truth has set us free

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't get into the whole pain comparison thing.

Fact is, people hurt badly for a long time -- I don't know how that could be measured really.

[sixoverme]

i agree...pain is relative...and when it all boils down...pain is pain...but tell me this...did the pain get to a point where you just became so numb to the whole thing that you no longer cared if god loved you anymore?

[Fweethawt]

I'll ask a question: Why did you pray for faith?  Why did you want faith?  (anyone can answer).

Because at the time, we were under the understanding that faith was exactly what the bible told us it was. We believed that it really was what is described in Hebrews 11.

 

We wanted to see the "substance" of the "things" we "hoped for", and we wanted the "evidence of things not seen".

 

Now, if you take a really-really close look at that verse, you'll see that it describes nothing. The reason some people still chose to believe while others choose not to believe any longer is pretty much just a matter of realizing that, hey someone's trying to pull a fast one here!

 

You see, there isn't any "substance" to things that are "hoped" for. And there is no "evidence of things not seen". And please, whatever you do, don't use the old bacterial argument. That's just lame.

[Karl-777]

....Anyways, a fellow got quiet sick in this guys church and so a group of men got together and prayed about it. They seriously prayed about it -- not the flimsy half hearted prayers that exchristians offer up (1)-- this was serious True Christian™ prayer. Not only that, but several people fasted.

 

Two days later the man died.......

 

My condolences to the family. It's not a joke when brain-washed sheeple "have faith" and refuse medical treatment only to then lose a family member because nothing was done, when medical professionals could have made the difference. I don't know if that was the circumstance here, but it has happened before.

 

Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth ALL thy diseases.

 

And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

 

In light of the promises made in these two verses, it should be obvious to Xtians, MG, that biblegod and "Jesus" are liars.

 

Then there's always this:

 

They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Well, at least they're not into handling timber rattlers, like some of the poor, brain-damaged, misguided fundies in Appalachia, MG.

 

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Did they heal the man? NO. Was Schiavo's withered brain healed? (even though believers and biblegod had 15 years to get it done) NO. Did all those "red state" believers stop those hurricanes? NO. Did any of the 4-day dead get raised in New Orleans? NO...etc. etc....

 

Even in light of these abject failures, it's still all "true" anyway, isn't it MG?

 

We'll be happy to run it all through the shredder one more time for you if you want....

 

K

[Cerise]

My post wasn't 'aimed at anyone' in particular, although I do wonder how much better off everyone would be without the prosperity gospel nonsense going 'round.

 

As for the 'praying for more faith' prayer, that one throws me.  I dunno why when some people get to the end of their rope they chose to continue to believe and others do not.

 

I didn't really get serious about my faith until I went to college and it was at that time that things really got crazy bad -- so I wrote out a whole list of everything that was going bad (everything) and I decided to believe anyways.  Why it is that people had similar lists and didn't believe anyways -- even after praying for faith -- is beyond me.  I spent 3-4 nights a week for months just crying in the dark.

 

I'll ask a question: Why did you pray for faith?  Why did you want faith?  (anyone can answer).

 

Because going through the valley of the shadow of death is hard enough, even when you trust that you walk such a path for a reason, and in the company of someone who loves you. Going through alone...

 

is was unthinkable. And yet it happened.

[Amethyst]

MG, you seriously expect us to remain in the cult when there is NO PROOF of god and that we are supposed to believe in the brainwashing when there is NO EVIDENCE that prayers work?

 

It's brainwashing. Think about it.

 

"Well, this terrible stuff happened to this family, and people died even though people prayed, but you are still supposed to believe because it's all god's plan." (To paraphrase)

 

Show me the plans. Show me where the hell in the Bible it says that innocent people have to die because a tyrannical deity said so. He is like Saddam Hussein. You must follow him always, no matter what. Well you know what, Saddam tortured and murdered his own people. They only followed him because they had to. I don't have to follow a leader like that because I live in a free country. Would you follow a leader like that?

 

Ask yourself, what kind of leader doesn't even give his plans to a front-line general like the Pope? Would you trust that leader? What if George Bush did not give his plans to his army generals, or anyone else, for that matter? Would you trust him (assuming you trust him now, that is)? I wouldn't trust any leader like that, and you should not expect us to.

 

Someday, I'm going to write a book about the ethical implications of torturing and murdering everyone in the world to save a select few, but I'm going to disguise it as science fiction and see if it makes people like you think. Because you are obviously too damn brainwashed to see that it is completely immoral and evil to kill countless people all for some great plan to save a chosen few.

 

[Ouroboros]

I'll ask a question: Why did you pray for faith?  Why did you want faith?  (anyone can answer).

Because I was in conflicting emotions. I felt and couldn't see that there was a God, there was nothing to support it. No signs on the sky. The Bible promisses moot. But at the same time I was scared. I wanted to believe still.

 

Why did I want faith? Because I did. You pretty much get down to the root level of feelings and emotions, and there's no logic or reason. I wanted to believe. I wanted there to be a God. But nothing in my life supported the notion or thought of God. So I made up my mind to see if there was anything in the world or universe that could support the notion of a God. I lost my faith. I had not feelings of a God. I had no arguments to convince myself, against my feelings, that there must be a God of some kind. So I had to find out if there was a God. So the best way is to ask God, "do you exist?". And How do you ask God if he exists if you don't believe in him? Ask him to give you faith in him. Wouldn't you? How did you become Christian? Why? Why did you want to believe in God? Why did you want to believe in Jesus? Did you do it because of the overwhelming evidence that God himself put in your lap? Or was it based on the feeling that there must be a God after all? I didn't feel that anymore. I felt that there can't be any God, but I wanted to be sure, so the best way of testing is to ask God "do you exist?"

 

Why doesn't this make sense to you?

[Xthebuilder]

This seems vaguely aimed at me, and all other ex-Cs who left due to extreme disappointment.

 

You know, your argument would make considerably more sense if the "prayers not getting answered" were for selfish things, like money, beauty or what have you. And if, like in this case, the "prayers not getting answered" was a single incident.

 

Let me ask you something.

 

Are you honestly saying that during all the years of my abuse, while I was turning the other cheek even during schoolyard beatings, honoring and obeying a psychotic bitch who literally tried to kill me once, and otherwise being a Victim for Christ, unquestioningly and full of devotion (and lots of pain)...during all those years that my only experience of God was all those hours I spent nightly sobbing out desperate prayers for nothing more selfish than hope, comfort, or a sense of being acknowledged, with nothing but ringing silence in return...during all that time of God's Silence when I needed Him the most...FOR TWENTY DAMNED YEARS....I didn't deserve at least a pittance of a fucking answer to sustain me? Especially since I never even asked for anything as "selfish" as "please make Mom stop hurting me"? And somehow, myself and those like me are all a bunch of whiny cop-outs for expecting better?

 

Please, go on, I want to see for myself just how much of a rationalizing asshole you really are.

 

 

I'd also like to see YOUR ass go through something like this and come out with your faith intact. I don't think you could do it for HALF as long.

 

Bastard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

 

5 yrs ago I made a choice to come back to Christ, it was an incredibly hard journey, as I had to give up a lot of the things that were involved in my world for me to feel that the choice I made was for the purpose of serving God, not an escape or get out of hell free ticket. I am not interested in addressing these situations, but I will if you want to.

 

Two years ago I chose to return to Bible College to finish my masters in Pastoral Theology. I started to work towards that goal, I sold my companies, some properties, etc. I am married, I have children, this was by no means a quick easy choice. I felt a call on my life to finish what I had begun, and go into the ministry.

One year I started to have problems with my legs, muscles groups stopped responding, I was sore all the time, and started to lose fleaxability. I continued on my path, am at Bible College, and am enjoying my studies. I beleieve with all my heart and soul it is where I am supposed to be, and I believe I will fulfill my lifes purpose by finishing my degree.

 

Now here is the kicker, my muscle soreness, I started going to my doctor to figure out what was going on, I was having some sserious problems, weakness in my leg, headaches, loss of use of some of my facial muscles. 9 months of tests, poking prodding, lumbar punctures, skeletal surveys, on and on, MRI's CAT scans, the full going over. We were trying to rule out M.S., I started having friends pray for me, my prayer was I wanted a name for this disease, what was happening to me. I was to start my next semester of school on Sept 7 th 2005, on that day, that morining, my neuroligist phoned, she along with another specialist had figured out what was wrong with me and I need to come see her right away.

 

I have been diaganosed with "osteoscolaretic myolenomas or MM's. It is fatel, there is no cure, my life expectance is 4 yrs. The lesions are spreading through my body, will eventually get into my spine and I will die.

 

Now, there are two things I can do, one is say screw this world, screw god, screw life, and go out with a bang. Spend, travel, enjoy this life.....

but here's the deal, I have 4 yrs left, some peopel will die today without knowing anything about God. I do not expect my life to be some incredible thing, I am in pain all the time, I refuse painkillers because I want to spend as much time as I can with my wife, daughters and son. I also want to finish my degree, spend time with God, and with my walk in Christ.

 

I do not whine, few peopel know how sick I really am, but those who do are in constant prayer for me, my family, my life. Do I think God can heal me, yes I do, do I think I will be healed, I have no ideaq, but as I sit and take my chemo treatments, do radiation, am now tring to find a bone marrow donor, I know I love God more now than yesterday, and more tomorrow than today.

 

I understand pain, I understand someone calling out To God and it seeming as if He does not answer our prayers. I can take that and turn it into anger against this God, or I can understand that through this illness, through this pain and suffering I am getting to know God in such an incredible way.

 

Take it for what it is, prayer unanswered , perhaps, but it is a lesson for me, for my family, and it may seem tragic, but its good.

 

And yes, I have medical proof if ya want it, I also will tell you that I have momnents where I am angry with God, and I scream at Him, probably like Job did, or some of the Minor Prophets, I vent I yell, I scream, and late at night when my wife is asleep, I thank Him for giving me that one extra day with her, my kids, and Him.

 

 

sorry if therer are typos, i am a tad weepy right now

but do not put us all in the same catagory, i do not do that to any of you!

[Ouroboros]

I'm really sorry to hear about your illness Xtb. I hope you'll have all the support and love you need, from you family and friends, for the time that is forward.

[Casey]

Are you honestly saying that during all the years of my abuse, while I was turning the other cheek even during schoolyard beatings, honoring and obeying a psychotic bitch who literally tried to kill me once, and otherwise being a Victim for Christ, unquestioningly and full of devotion (and lots of pain)...during all those years that my only experience of God was all those hours I spent nightly sobbing out desperate prayers for nothing more selfish than hope, comfort, or a sense of being acknowledged, with nothing but ringing silence in return...during all that time of God's Silence when I needed Him the most...FOR TWENTY DAMNED YEARS....I didn't deserve at least a pittance of a fucking answer to sustain me? Especially since I never even asked for anything as "selfish" as "please make Mom stop hurting me"? And somehow, myself and those like me are all a bunch of whiny cop-outs for expecting better?

 

I remember a few times like that myself. Not as bad, and thankfully they didn't last for twenty years, but oddly enough my abusers were women and men who were supposed to be god's representatives right here on earth. Many times I wished god would have had a word with them, but he never did. I can't recall how many times I asked/wished/prayed (they all amounted to the same damn thing) for a peaceful day or night to no avail. One really would have thought he could have used his limitless powers and struck one of them dumb for three days.

 

Or, if he wished to work a lesser magic, he might have burned just one bible verse into the so-and-so's tiny brain, to wit, "Fathers provoke not thy children to anger". (Galatians I think)

 

Still, the more fool I when after these little interludes I asked for one little thing for myself eh? Oh well once bitten, twice shy.

Casey

[Xthebuilder]

I'm really sorry to hear about your illness Xtb. I hope you'll have all the support and love you need, from you family and friends, for the time that is forward.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Hans,

 

Thanks. I am not seeking sorrow, nor pity. This is reality, we are mortal, it offends me I guess when we lump anyone into some general catagory.

I do not think any of us can explain the things that happen in our lives, but I do know that everything happend for a reason.

 

Keep your chin up, and thanks again.

[Casey]

Hans,

 

Thanks. I am not seeking sorrow, nor pity. This is reality, we are mortal, it offends me I guess when we lump anyone into some general catagory.

I do not think any of us can explain the things that happen in our lives, but I do know that everything happend for a reason.

 

Keep your chin up, and thanks again.

 

I too am sorry to hear of your troubes, although you have chosen your way and I mine. Although "never the twain shall meet", I would like to wish you the best of it, and to congratulate you on your courage.

Casey

[Cerise]

I understand pain, I understand someone calling out To God and it seeming as if He does not answer our prayers. I can take that and turn it into anger against this God, or I can understand that through this illness, through this pain and suffering I am getting to know God in such an incredible way.

 

Take it for what it is, prayer unanswered , perhaps, but it is a lesson for me, for my family, and it may seem tragic, but its good.

 

I'm sorry, but BULLSHIT. Tragedy and good don't go together. If god needs to kill you in order to impart a lesson, he's a crap god, and it's a crap lesson.

 

You understand nothing if you can't understand that just because you and god want to have your own little masochist party together doesn't mean every body else is lining up to recieve their hair shirts with grace and humility. You really think your pain is doing you good? Fine then. Think what you want. But as I said to another member on this forum recently, you have absolutely NO RIGHT to suggest that everyone get off on being tortured and see it as a good thing.

 

I'm sure you'll get plenty of sympathy on this board, but none shall come from me. I'm still reeling from this totally ridiculous Christian idea that all suffering equals beneficial learning experiences, and if you can't see the good in whatever horror you're being put through you are somehow irrational, bitter, and blind.

[Fweethawt]

Ha! So much for Isaiah 5:20 .