Molding Victims?

[Mad_Gerbil]

24. However I know that not every one will follow my command for there is evil amoung you (the reasons for this are another consideration) so this is my command ~ A man convicted of Rape should be sentenced to a term of imprisonment and be required to attend a sex offenders programme.

 

At the time the law was written they were a wandering tribe.

There were no prisons for them to use.

 

Apparently the Deity Hesitent has failed to realize the nature of our situation in this case. So far, I don't believe in Diety Hesitent because of this obvious flaw.

 

As for a sex offenders program -- you'll note the repeat offense rate is insanely high -- which I take to mean that Diety Hesitent doesn't have a problem with repeat offenders, but instead, offers vague 'reconditioning' programs that have a high rate of failure. I wonder how many women will be victimized by creeps that have been 'reconditioned'.

 

Apparently Hesitent condons rape.

 

I am God and I know the propensisty of the human heart for lies. There will be occasions when false allegations of rape are made (especially whilst you persist in the ridiculous and evil practice of stoning couples who have engaged in consensual premarital sex) therefore in such circumstances the accounts of the man and woman should be weighed by a group of their peers to determine if coercion and force was used.

 

Oh..may the best liar win!

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I'll have to go with the real G_d on this one, and here is why:

 

You'll note the passage talks about the rape taking place in town. Bear in mind that 'in town' at the time of writing meant 'tent city'. Even a real middle eastern town of the time had buildings that were anything but air tight. In a crowded active community one yell was all it took to get help because they didn't have the spaced out air tight/sound proof architecture we have today.

 

Now if a man got busted with some other dudes wife in a freakin' tent surrounded by other tents full of people and the woman didn't yell out then there is every reason to believe it was consensual --- unless you just want the policy to be that a woman, when getting busted in consensaul adultery, needs only to claim a rape in order to get someone else stoned. (and don't think that hasn't happened)

 

The Bible takes the issue head on and lays out a very abbreviated approach or guideline for dealing with the issue. I'm sure in situations that weren't clear it was weighed by the people of the town and dealt with -- the passage actually makes a great deal of practical sense.

 

You will likely disagree with that -- but one thing is clear -- the passage doesn't say that if the woman (alone in the woods at gunpoint) doesn't 'yell' that she should be put to death. The 'in town' means help is available and reasonable to expect.

 

The JWs missed that because they, as a group, are clowns.

[Mad_Gerbil]

Stop, halt, cease, desist, wait, freeze right there, gopher!  "The IDIOTIC JW"?  Sounds like a "judgment" to me.  Sounds like YOU, Mad_Gerbil, just called someone "fool".  And what does your bible say about this?

 

The Jehovah's Witness faith is foolishness, legalistic, and abusive.

You won't find me apologizing for calling a spade a spade.

 

Also, what makes YOU so certain that YOUR religious superstitions are "true", while the Jehovah's Witnesses are "false"?  It is my understanding that they use bibles and believe in God and Jesus also.  Granted, they believe differently than do you.  But what makes you so certain that THEY are "idiots", whereas YOU have got it "right"?

 

Whether or not my superstitions are true or false has no bearing on the obvious falsehood of the belief system of the JW.

 

How can you be so arrogant as to call someone else's religious beliefs "idiocy", while you expect us here at Ex-C to treat YOUR religion with respect?

 

I don't expect to be treated with respect here.

Frankly, I don't care what you think about my faith.

 

And WHY can't you see that for the SAME reason that YOU reject and scoff at the "idiotic JW", WE reject and scoff at YOUR "idiotic" religion?  It is NO different!

 

You'll note that I respect your right to disregard my beliefs as foolishness.

Most people here do.

Be my guest.

[Alice]

At the time the law was written they were a wandering tribe.

There were no prisons for them to use.

 

Apparently the Deity Hesitent has failed to realize the nature of our situation in this case.  So far, I don't believe in Diety Hesitent because of this obvious flaw.

 

As for a sex offenders program -- you'll note the repeat offense rate is insanely high -- which I take to mean that Diety Hesitent doesn't have a problem with repeat offenders, but instead, offers vague 'reconditioning' programs that have a high rate of failure.  I wonder how many women will be victimized by creeps that have been 'reconditioned'.

 

Apparently Hesitent condons rape.

Oh..may the best liar win!

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I'll have to go with the real G_d on this one, and here is why:

 

You'll note the passage talks about the rape taking place in town.  Bear in mind that 'in town' at the time of writing meant 'tent city'.  Even a real middle eastern town of the time had buildings that were anything but air tight.  In a crowded active community one yell was all it took to get help because they didn't have the spaced out air tight/sound proof architecture we have today. 

 

Now if a man got busted with some other dudes wife in a freakin' tent surrounded by other tents full of people and the woman didn't yell out then there is every reason to believe it was consensual --- unless you just want the policy to be that a woman, when getting busted in consensaul adultery, needs only to claim a rape in order to get someone else stoned. (and don't think that hasn't happened)

 

The Bible takes the issue head on and lays out a very abbreviated approach or guideline for dealing with the issue.  I'm sure in situations that weren't clear it was weighed by the people of the town and dealt with -- the passage actually makes a great deal of practical sense.

 

You will likely disagree with that -- but one thing is clear -- the passage doesn't say that if the woman (alone in the woods at gunpoint) doesn't 'yell' that she should be put to death.  The 'in town' means help is available and reasonable to expect.

 

The JWs missed that because they, as a group, are clowns.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hmmmm ~ had no idea we were playing 'write something for the tented community', I was attempting to add a little humour in my wording, but in essence I can see no reason why a wandering community couldn't use 'exclusion from the community or stay and particpate in group work to help you see how you need to change your behaviour, as the nomadic version of what I was suggesting.

 

My main aim was to point out that life would be a lot different if 'God' had made commands that pointed out that sex should be consensual and that use of force was wrong and would have to be dealt with accordingly ~ but that stoning a couple to death for 'adultery' is just plain evil and ridiculous.

 

Is that the part that makes you 'cringe'? (one would hope so )

 

We obviously have much better success with our sex offenders programmes in the Uk. (Not that they always work, in terms of reoffending rates I totally accept that stoning to death as a solution has a better success rate when it comes to preventing reoffending)

[Checkmate]

The Jehovah's Witness faith is foolishness, legalistic, and abusive.

You won't find me apologizing for calling a spade a spade.

Christianity is foolishness, legalistic, and abusive.

You won't find me apologizing for calling a spade a spade.

Whether or not my superstitions are true or false has no bearing on the obvious falsehood of the belief system of the JW.

Whether or not Darwinism is true or false has no bearing on the obvious falsehood of the belief system of Christianity.

I don't expect to be treated with respect here.

Whew! That's a relief! I was so afraid that I had offended you. (Not!)

Frankly, I don't care what you think about my faith.

Frankly, I don't care what you think about my lack of faith.

You'll note that I respect your right to disregard my beliefs as foolishness.

You'll note that I respect your right to disregard truth and obvious proofs that dismantle your foolish beliefs.

Most people here do.

Be my guest.

Thanks. I'm so GLAD we had this little chat.

 

 

 

Fucktard.

[Mad_Gerbil]

Hmmmm ~ had no idea we were playing 'write something for the tented community', I was attempting to add a little humour in my wording, but in essence I can see no reason why a wandering community couldn't use 'exclusion from the community or stay and particpate in group work to help you see how you need to change your behaviour, as the nomadic version of what I was suggesting.

 

I dunno about that -- I go both ways.

I think rape is a very serious crime and I think our society is much, much too lenient on it. I do appreciate any attempts at humor, btw -- even if it is that dry british humor.

 

My main aim was to point out that life would be a lot different if 'God' had made commands that pointed out that sex should be consensual and that use of force was wrong and would have to be dealt with accordingly ~ but that stoning a couple to death for 'adultery' is just plain evil and ridiculous.

 

I have to admit that stoning seems harsh but lately I've been thinking about how important the family unit is to the good of society as a whole and I cannot help but wonder about this approach. (I'm not advocating stoning, however, adultery isn't a victimless crime). If we are all connected then it effects all of us when people whore around like that -- dunno how exactly, but I wonder if we've cheapened things so much that we can no longer see how important this really is.

 

We obviously have much better success with our sex offenders programmes in the Uk. (Not that they always work, in terms of reoffending rates I totally accept that stoning to death as a solution has a better success rate when it comes to preventing reoffending)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Frankly, I'm for the death penalty for clear cut 'n dry rape cases.

The whole idea is so repulsive to me that I refuse to watch movies with rape scenes -- (I can handle war violence, etc) but rape really bothers me.

[Mad_Gerbil]

Christianity is foolishness, legalistic, and abusive.

You won't find me apologizing for calling a spade a spade.

 

I've never asked anyone here to apologize for stating what they believe to be the truth. I think you are on the right track here.

 

Whether or not Darwinism is true or false has no bearing on the obvious falsehood of the belief system of Christianity.

 

Undoubtedly.

 

Whew!  That's a relief!  I was so afraid that I had offended you.  (Not!)

 

No fear there.

You'd have to know me to offend me.

An off base knee jerk reaction to my post isn't offensive, it is merely amusing.

 

Frankly, I don't care what you think about my lack of faith.

 

I would hope not.

 

You'll note that I respect your right to disregard truth and obvious proofs that dismantle your foolish beliefs.

 

Name calling notwithstanding.

 

Thanks.  I'm so GLAD we had this little chat.

 

Me too.

 

*hugz*

 

[Mad_Gerbil]

We'll have to disagree on that Serenity.

I'll leave it at that.

[Alice]

I think rape is a very serious crime and I think our society is much, much too lenient on it.  I do appreciate any attempts at humor, btw -- even if it is that dry british humor.

I have to admit that stoning seems harsh but lately I've been thinking about how important the family unit is to the good of society as a whole and I cannot help but wonder about this approach. (I'm not advocating stoning, however, adultery isn't a victimless crime).  If we are all connected then it effects all of us when people whore around like that -- dunno how exactly, but I wonder if we've cheapened things so much that we can no longer see how important this really is.

Frankly, I'm for the death penalty for clear cut 'n dry rape cases.

The whole idea is so repulsive to me that I refuse to watch movies with rape scenes -- (I can handle war violence, etc) but rape really bothers me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree with you that rape is serious. I'm not sure that it's worse than stoning a couple to death for having premarital or extra marital sex however ~ as if having your Mother or Father stoned to death will be less harmful to the children and grandparents than feel the impact of divorce

 

Now I am not saying that children are not adversely affected by divorce and I share your concerns about society ~ but Mad Gerbil ... do you really think that stoning is simply a 'bit harsh'. (that's one understatement beyond the dryest and most british of minimisations ) I could no more watch a couple be stoned to death for having made love together than I could watch a rape.

 

(oh and it is acrimony between parents, loss of contact with a beloved parent, financial pressures, loss of status and negative stigma that impact on children when marriages break up ... rather than require people to stay in love for ever, perhaps a society that teaches co-operation between parents in the interests of children whether they remain together in a sexual or marriage relationship or not ... is the best way to help to society ...)

 

I accept that my 'off the top of my head solutions' are faulty. So are considered and best of the bunch at the time solutions of the tented fraternity ... and faulted in a way that has had dire consequences. In the same way that my suggestions were not the words of a great and powerful deity ~ nor are the ideas in the Bible.

[Mad_Gerbil]

Now I am not saying that children are not adversely affected by divorce and I share your concerns about society ~ but Mad Gerbil ... do you really think that stoning is simply a 'bit harsh'.  (that's one understatement beyond the dryest and most british of minimisations ) I could no more watch a couple be stoned to death for having made love together than I could watch a rape.

 

To play this out... because it is interesting and I'm undecided... let's examine it for a minute. I don't have an apologetic for it and I won't be posting links to obscure writings... I just wanna think this through a bit.

 

Why do we consider stoning harsh?

 

No trap there.

Honest question that I'm considering myself.

[Mad_Gerbil]

Because it is a slow and painful death, it is cruel and unjust and no LOVING GOD, would order such an atrocity to be carried out on people.  Just a few months ago, a woman was stoned by the town for adultery in a Muslim country.  If we were a theocracy, the US would be the same way, I am so thankful that we do not use bible law in this country or we'd still have slaves and American women would look no different than the women in religious Muslim countries.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, I could be wrong but I personally don't care how a rapist is executed.

Not saying that is a True Christian attitude, but it is mine nonetheless.

 

I was more interested in where Hesitent was going with it though -- she was talking about two people caught in adultery getting stoned and not a rape scenerio.

 

In that context, is stoning harsh?

[Alice]

Well, I could be wrong but I personally don't care how a rapist is executed.

Not saying that is a True Christian attitude, but it is mine nonetheless.

 

I was more interested in where Hesitent was going with it though -- she was talking about two people caught in adultery getting stoned and not a rape scenerio.

 

In that context, is stoning harsh?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'd like to make sure that I've got you right ... we are talking about couples being stoned for having committed adultery?

 

Harsh ~ as I indicated previously would not be the term I'd use for it even if I was attempting a little more dry british humour.

 

It is brutal and pointless and benefits no one (except those who so fear their own moral weakness they want to live in society where they will won't have to excercise their own choices ~ and want fear to do it for them. And they can then punish those who have followed their own choices)

 

 

A scernario.

 

Do you really imagine there is a child anywhere that would feel better because their Mother or Father was stoned to death?

 

I love my husband. If he is sexually unfaithful to me ~ I hope he doesn't tell me unless he's thinking about leaving me. If he told me, I would forgive him and I'd hope that we would work together to make our marriage good again. If my big forgiveness theory turned out to be an unrealistic possibility (people tell me I'd see things differently if he did tell me he had been unfaithful and although I don't agree with them, who am I to say)

 

The absolute LAST thing I would want to happen to him is for him to be stoned. The absolute last thing I would want to happen to any woman he happened to have had sex with is for her to be stoned. Any feelings of betrayal I would be supposed to feel as a wife would amount to nothing to me ~ against the injustice of someone being stoned to death for having a consensual sexual relationship.

 

If I lived in a society where such a barbaric custom still existed I would announce my forgiveness to them both to the angry self rigteous crowd and stand between them and the rocks.

 

Mad gerbil - how can a follower of Christ , even for one moment consider that stoning for adultery might be a good thing. I hope to find that you have dismissed it out of hand and posted a 'whoops silly me' retraction in the time it has taken for me to tap out this response.

 

back to my response to unfaithfulness ~ If we couldn't work it out, I'd work towards an amicable divorce. I'd promote as much contact for my children with their father as possible, and I'd choose never to marry again, because I think marriage works as the 'licence' to have children that has been mentioned elsewhere. I think society might function better if there was some sort of agreement to 'joint parenting' that went above and beyond marriage as it exists today.

[Checkmate]

To play this out... because it is interesting and I'm undecided... let's examine it for a minute.  I don't have an apologetic for it and I won't be posting links to obscure writings... I just wanna think this through a bit.

 

Why do we consider stoning harsh?

 

No trap there.

Honest question that I'm considering myself.

I've been a fly on the wall during this little chat, but I'd like some clarification from you MG.

 

"Why do we consider stoning harsh?" (Are you kidding me with this question?)

 

You say you are "undecided" about the stoning of people for sins. (In this instance "adultery".) Are you REALLY taking this position, or are you playing devil's advocate? Because even your "Jesus" set aside stoning people for sins. (Re: the woman caught in adultery. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.")

 

So if "Jesus" has done away with stoning, what is YOUR problem? Why do Christians have so much trouble with the "forgiveness" aspect of their faith?

 

"Forgive others as your Father in heaven has forgiven you." Or is this yet ANOTHER "dispensational" teaching that you Christians have done away with? For you seem rather bloodthirsty in your desire to see people punished for every offense.

[The Silent One]

As a former JW, all I can say Gerbil, all I can say is - you have no clue. None.

 

They're beliefs make just as much sense as yours, they're no more clowns than any other Christian group, no more idiots than any other Christian. In fact, I prefer them to your lot.

 

They don't get involved with politics, if you tell them to leave you alone and not bother you again, they are obligated to add you to a list of people that won't be called up on in their ministry, for at least 2 years.

 

While it's annoying to have them at your door, they're FAR less harrassing than pretty much any other evangelical Christian group I've ever encountered.

[Mad_Gerbil]

When I ask the question about it being harsh I'm asking what thinking goes into making the judgement that it is harsh. Obviously, the question is decided on the basis of 'does the punishment fit the crime.'

 

So if a person says that stoning is 'harsh' in that example then they are making the claim that the punishment doesn't fit the crime. The claim is that while adultery may be serious it ain't that big of a deal.

 

But what if it is a big deal?

What if we've been taught that extramartial sex is no big deal when in fact it is very serious stuff?

 

You see, I don't think man's view of stoning has changed over time -- I'm sure the ancients thought it was harsh as well. However, what has changed is our view of sex -- we've not advanced as is being supposed -- our advancement isn't an improved view of stoning but rather a cheapened view of sex and the importance of family for the health of a society.

 

So immoral sex being worthy of stoning isn't a case of the crime and punishment not fitting because our understanding of stoning has evolved, but rather, our understanding of the importance of sex as de-evolved and so now the two don't seem to match up.

 

That's my theory.

[Mad_Gerbil]

As a former JW, all I can say Gerbil, all I can say is - you have no clue. None.

 

I've studied the JW faith and I"ve had a debate with a JW elder that I soundly won and left him speechless. I do think I know something of that which I speak - the JWs are an incredibly cruel, heartless, and mean spirited organization.

 

Individuals are fine -- but the organization itself is straight outta the pit of hell.

[a midnight star]

More "bad shit" happened to me when I was a Christian, than has happened since.

 

I feel the same way.

 

 

 

 

These stories all had a common theme "bad things happen-god intervenes, directly through miracles, or indirectly by 'sending someone' to help".

 

This is a dangerous construct to put into a little mind.

 

I waited years for god to come and save me. He never did and never will.

 

 

While I had no trouble at all facing down people who were bullying, abusing, or scaring my friends.......I seemed to have a blocker when it came to helping MYSELF.

 

I understand this too well. when I was younger I was afraid of people. I was always scared of getting hit and beaten up. When ever I tried to do something to get away, I was always dragged back and beaten some more for daring to leave.

 

I've received unwanted sexual contact (through clothes) in a darkened classroom full of other kids and a teacher during a history film. I was terrorized by a drug dealer (when I tried to get help....the school treated ME like the problem, I gave up), and my personal favorite shame, I was molested at 35,000 feet in a plane for over 2 hours surrounded by people!

 

For years I felt guilty because I didn't do anything to stop the abuse. When my Uncle would take me to the woods, I didn't fight. I hated it, but I didn't fight. Same with my step-father. He would put me on his lap after church (of course I was in a dress) WITH MY MOTHER IN THE KITCHEN and play. Again I didn't stop this, hated it but didn't stop it.

 

If I can find the link, there is some good info from an abuse survivior. You reactions and mine are normal.

 

http://www.kathleen-sullivan.com/Pedophili...l%20Slavery.htm

 

I wasn't addicted to the orgasisms, I was addicted to the "love and caring" that was offered. This was the only time when I was a child that I ever felt cared for. I know as an adult that this does not make sense, but there it is. I allowed strange men to do things to me as well. I craved the love and attention so much (even though I knew that it was only for a moment) that I allowed them free run. Literally. For years I was ashamed (sp) of this. Up until I realized that this was a conditioned response. I was taught from a very young age to have this response. I was about 8 or so when I was first abused by my uncle.

 

Since abandoning religion, interestingly enough, I don't expect a hero outside of myself. I don't hesitate to see if someone else is going to intervene on my behalf.

 

I went from this extreme to the opposite. I was cold, uncaring, and so asexual. I hated sex. I decided that NOBODY is going to step in and save me, so I had to take care of myself. I would look at any "hero" with suspision, thinking that they wanted something in return. I was so very violent for a while. I still have problems to this day. I am to this day trying to find the middle ground. I am a little paranoid, always thinking that there is some "hidden agenda".

[Guest Guest_serenitynow_*]

I feel the same way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hugs (((((((((((((((((((((((((midnightstar)))))))))))))))))))))))))

 

You are a very brave woman.

[The Silent One]

I've studied the JW faith and I"ve had a debate with a JW elder that I soundly won and left him speechless.   I do think I know something of that which I speak - the JWs are an incredibly cruel, heartless, and mean spirited organization.

 

Individuals are fine -- but the organization itself is straight outta the pit of hell.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And I'm a former full-time minister for them, and know of what I speak.

 

JWs>You, and that's saying something since I hate the organization.

 

Get bent, you clown. You know nothing.

[Mad_Gerbil]

And I'm a former full-time minister for them, and know of what I speak.

JWs>You, and that's saying something since I hate the organization.

Get bent, you clown. You know nothing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'll tell you what I know -- I know what it is like to be on a never ending treadmill trying to be good enough to grab the carrot of salvation which is always just outta my grip. I know what it is like to work my butt off trying to be good enough, faithful enough, and true enough to finally arrive only to find out that one never gets to arrive -- that no matter how far you go the goal always gets moved just a little further off.

 

I know what it is like to collapse exhausted and broken -- completely burned out on trying only to be told that I didn't have enough faith or that my very best just wasn't good enough -- all the while peddling the 'good news' and 'grace' of a G_d that for some reason wasn't gonna cut me any slack.

 

I've prostrated myself before evangelists begging for a break, for rest, for peace only to be told that I must work harder, push harder, and go further. I"ve been reduced to a bawling baby in front of people who wouldn't console me but just used me in order to feel good about themselves.

 

You think I don't understand how stupid one feels after buying that load of bullshit?

You think I don't understand how it feels to blow 30,000.00 to get an education from a fundy school, the diploma of which isn't worth the paper it is printed upon?

You think I don't know what it feels like to wonder about the lost years, the lost opportunities, and the desire to have a shot to do it all over again?

 

I know all about that, dude.

 

And if I didn't just describe exactly what you've felt (because I've felt it and lived it myself) then call me a liar, a pig, and an arrogant ass and we'll be done with it. If I so totally don't understand then say so -- because you know I nailed it.

[Checkmate]

I've studied the JW faith and I"ve had a debate with a JW elder that I soundly won and left him speechless.  I do think I know something of that which I speak - the JWs are an incredibly cruel, heartless, and mean spirited organization.

 

Individuals are fine -- but the organization itself is straight outta the pit of hell.

This is hillarious! I bet you tell all your friends that you "soundly" defeated US Ex-Cers and leave us speechless also! Why should I believe you won any "debate"? Everyone thinks THEY "win" debates. Stop puffing up your chest in vanity, it doesn't become you.

 

As for the remainder of your post--replace "JWs" with "Christians" and you've got MY opinion about YOU.

 

A few individuals are fine, but your organization is straight outta the pit of the IRS. (Sorry. I don't believe in "hell" either.)

 

Oh, and lest you forget, I SPEAK FROM EXPERIENCE AND KNOWLEDGE about Christians. I WAS one. Unlike YOU. YOU were NEVER a JW. So how can you speak as any sort of authority on THEIR religion? Answer: You can't.

 

Perhaps you are PROJECTING your experience with Fundie Xianity onto the JW? In which case, you're making my point. ALL religions suck!

 

 

 

P.S. -- Your arrogance is showing, and it is insufferable. Better go take your "fruit of the spirit" pill. You seem to be suffering from a "Humility", "Forgiveness", "Kindness", etc deficiency.

[The Silent One]

I'll tell you what I know -- I know what it is like to be on a never ending treadmill trying to be good enough to grab the carrot of salvation which is always just outta my grip.  I know what it is like to work my butt off trying to be good enough, faithful enough, and true enough to finally arrive only to find out that one never gets to arrive -- that no matter how far you go the goal always gets moved just a little further off.

 

I know what it is like to collapse exhausted and broken -- completely burned out on trying only to be told that I didn't have enough faith or that my very best just wasn't good enough -- all the while peddling the 'good news' and 'grace' of a G_d that for some reason wasn't gonna cut me any slack.

 

I've prostrated myself before evangelists begging for a break, for rest, for peace only to be told that I must work harder, push harder, and go further.  I"ve been reduced to a bawling baby in front of people who wouldn't console me but just used me in order to feel good about themselves.

 

You think I don't understand how stupid one feels after buying that load of bullshit?

You think I don't understand how it feels to blow 30,000.00 to get an education from a fundy school, the diploma of which isn't worth the paper it is printed upon?

You think I don't know what it feels like to wonder about the lost years, the lost opportunities, and the desire to have a shot to do it all over again?

 

I know all about that, dude.

 

And if I didn't just describe exactly what you've felt (because I've felt it and lived it myself) then call me a liar, a pig, and an arrogant ass and we'll be done with it.  If I so totally don't understand then say so -- because you know I nailed it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Nice dance. I never brought up any of that, I'm talking about Witnesses, their beliefs and such. Not wasting a life or anything else.

 

You're right about a wasted life on that regard though (so why exactly are you still running on that treadmill?), but it's a completely separate issue altogether. If you can't separate the one issue from the other, I think I see the first of your problems.

[Checkmate]

.............

And if I didn't just describe exactly what you've felt (because I've felt it and lived it myself) then call me a liar, a pig, and an arrogant ass and we'll be done with it.  If I so totally don't understand then say so -- because you know I nailed it.

MG, it sounds like YOU have some personal demons to deal with, too! This last post sounded very MUCH like an Ex-C eximony! It's no wonder you believe that ALL Ex-Cers were hurt by the church. YOU have been hurt too!

 

Tell me: If church life has sucked so badly for you (don't try and pretend now that it didn't), why do you deny some of OUR pain? Acting as if we aren't justified in being angry with Christianity?

 

Face facts, we're better off without your silly religion and your phoney "god".

[MQTA]

apparently, so would he be. maybe he's 1/2 way there and the reason why he's here.

[a midnight star]

Why do we consider stoning harsh?

 

Honest question that I'm considering myself.

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My .02cents. I think that stoning for adultry to be harsh and uncalled for. But to stone a raper or a child molester is justice. I personally would be happy to see my parents stoned, but that is just me.

 

The problem I see with stoning is that it can and has been used to "get back" at someone for some unjustified wrong. We saw that with the witch trials. People getting burned, hung, etc.... just because "people didn't like them" or was jealous of them.

[a midnight star]

MG, it sounds like YOU have some personal demons to deal with, too!  This last post sounded very MUCH like an Ex-C eximony!  It's no wonder you believe that ALL Ex-Cers were hurt by the church.  YOU have been hurt too!

 

Tell me: If church life has sucked so badly for you (don't try and pretend now that it didn't), why do you deny some of OUR pain?  Acting as if we aren't justified in being angry with Christianity?

 

Face facts, we're better off without your silly religion and your phoney "god".

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