Molding Victims?

[Vigile]

Time and time again I see posters here asking the question -- do Christians really care? Do they REALLY care? So I've asked myself the same question -- and for now (for me) the answer is NO.

 

 

Then you're an asshole pure and simple. Anyone who can believe what you do and not give a shit about those facing eternal damnation is not only a poor xtian, but a poor excuse for a human being. This is not a wart on your personality, this is an admission to being a psychopath.

 

To answer your question, no we don't want you bugging us telling us we are going to hell, but that's because we don't believe there is a hell to go to. If we believed in one, believe me, we would be the one's out there making asses of ourselves trying to stand in the gate to stem the tide.

[Vigile]

That's okay.

 

A question for you to answer, if you are so inclined:

When you were a JW Pastor did you really care about the people you were ministering to -- the people you talked to door to door -- or did you only think you cared -- did you only care because it bought you salvation?

 

When I was a xtian out making an ass of myself on the street and witnessing to my friends, you can bet your last dollar I cared about them. I already knew I was going to heaven, but I was scared to death they were not.

[Mad_Gerbil]

Then you're an asshole pure and simple.  Anyone who can believe what you do and not give a shit about those facing eternal damnation is not only a poor xtian, but a poor excuse for a human being.  This is not a wart on your personality, this is an admission to being a psychopath.

 

To answer your question, no we don't want you bugging us telling us we are going to hell, but that's because we don't believe there is a hell to go to.  If we believed in one, believe me, we would be the one's out there making asses of ourselves trying to stand in the gate to stem the tide.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Do you believe there are starving children in 3rd world countries?

Have you sold your TV to feed them?

 

If you haven't, then why is your TV more important to you than a starving, innocent little brown baby -- or do you just hate black people?

 

------------------------------------------

 

I'm not baiting you there, because I don't believe you really do hate black babies. However, I do say all this to point out how terribly easy it is to cast anyone in a most horrible light.

 

As for me... I'm wondering out loud why I'm not willing to give up my TV to feed a child. I'm wondering out loud why I am forever saying I care when my actions, speaking louder than words, betray the hypocrisy.

 

I've invited people here to look at that with me, but instead I get called names.

That is to be expected.

I'll look for conversations on the matter elsewhere then.

[Amethyst]

Do you believe there are starving children in 3rd world countries?

 

I do donate to relief charities like the Red Cross on a regular basis. At least, I know the money goes somewhere that will get to the people, not a rich pastor's pockets to buy himself a new car or an addition to his already huge house.

[Vigile]

Do you believe there are starving children in 3rd world countries?

Have you sold your TV to feed them?

 

Whether I care or not about an African or anyone else who lives a short miserable life that ends in peaceful death is vastly different from whether or not a person goes to hell and suffers for an eternity without hope. Furthermore, I don't see anywhere where it is written down that I am "called" to resolve a situation that was wrought by disinterested greed and politics. You on the other hand are "called" according to that stupid book of yours.

 

Whatever.

 

Glad to hear you are willing to go and share your lack of empathy elsewhere. You won't be missed here.

[Mad_Gerbil]

Whether I care or not about an African or anyone else who lives a short miserable life that ends in peaceful death is vastly different from whether or not a person goes to hell and suffers for an eternity without hope.  Furthermore, I don't see anywhere where it is written down that I am "called" to resolve a situation that was wrought by disinterested greed and politics.  You on the other hand are "called" according to that stupid book of yours. 

 

Whatever.

 

Glad to hear you are willing to go and share your lack of empathy elsewhere.  You won't be missed here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I made the comparison because the needs of African children are empirically verifiable. If one's response to the empirically verifiable need is to do nothing -- not even sell a TV -- there is no reason to believe that person would take a doctrine such as Hell, which isn't verifiable at this point, seriously.

 

The difference is I admit I don't care... which is a starting point.

[Mad_Gerbil]

I do donate to relief charities like the Red Cross on a regular basis.  At least, I know the money goes somewhere that will get to the people, not a rich pastor's pockets to buy himself a new car or an addition to his already huge house.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That would be putting your $$$ where your mouth is --- I like that!

[Alice]

I made the comparison because the needs of African children are empirically verifiable.  If one's response to the empirically verifiable need is to do nothing -- not even sell a TV -- there is no reason to believe that person would take a doctrine such as Hell, which isn't verifiable at this point, seriously.

 

The difference is I admit I don't care... which is a starting point.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hmmm, thought you had gone off in huff ... obviously not.

 

There is a further difference ~ christians are supposed to care and they are supposed to have this amazing supernatural power at their finger tips that they can use to change things for good.

 

If what you are doing here is owning up to an aspect of your personality that goes right against the christian compassion grain ~ then that is a brave thing to do. I question your choice of venue for such an admission, but then saying 'I really don't care enough about the sufferings of others to take any action' can be a tough thing to raise at house group. (why is that though I wonder?)

 

Where has all this introspection led you so far MG?

[Mad_Gerbil]

Where has all this introspection led you so far MG?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, I'm pleased with the progress I've made so far -- because recognizing a problem is the first place to start. One reason I left fundyism is because of the way people were getting used. For the most part, I stopped using people that way myself. That is why I've never worked to get converts here -- I don't want your salvation to be my 'badge' as it were.

 

But now that I've largely stopped using other people I've got to get past that and move onto loving them. So that is teh next challenge -- moving beyond the narcissism, selfishness, and obsession onto something where actions match words.

 

It makes me think things like:

1: Stop posting on messageboards -- just plain shut up and go mow a handicapped person's lawn. Too much talk -- too much discussion -- no action.

 

2: Re-examining if I'm willing to take the next step of faith.

 

..and so on.

[Vigile]

I made the comparison because the needs of African children are empirically verifiable.  If one's response to the empirically verifiable need is to do nothing -- not even sell a TV -- there is no reason to believe that person would take a doctrine such as Hell, which isn't verifiable at this point, seriously.

 

The difference is I admit I don't care... which is a starting point.

 

Of course the whole problem with your belief system is that it is empiraclly unverifiable. No arguments here. It's still and apples/oranges comparison and it is your belief system. If you don't believe it, fine, but if you do, then you have an utter and disturbing lack of empathy and humanity.

 

I freely admit I don't care what happens in Africa. Then again, I'm not the appointed gatekeeper or salt of the earth either.

[Alice]

Well, I'm pleased with the progress I've made so far -- because recognizing a problem is the first place to start.  One reason I left fundyism is because of the way people were getting used.  For the most part, I stopped using people that way myself.  That is why I've never worked to get converts here -- I don't want your salvation to be my 'badge' as it were.

 

But now that I've largely stopped using other people I've got to get past that and move onto loving them.  So that is teh next challenge -- moving beyond the narcissism, selfishness, and obsession onto something where actions match words.

 

It makes me think things like:

1: Stop posting on messageboards -- just plain shut up and go mow a handicapped person's lawn.  Too much talk -- too much discussion -- no action.

 

2: Re-examining if I'm willing to take the next step of faith.

 

..and so on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You'll have to help me here ~ why do you need/want to start loving people?

 

Your salvation is a free gift . God loves you as you are, why complicate your life trying to get all touchy/feely?

 

Don't you think that a guy who struggles to feel sorry when the fact that he has upset someone else is brought to his attention and therefore thinks he can't apologise ~ is going to make a pigs ear of the empathy and sensitivity that is needed before offers of practical help will bless rather than undermine someone who is disabled?

[Mad_Gerbil]

You'll have to help me here ~ why do you need/want to start loving people?

 

Your salvation is a free gift . God loves you as you are, why complicate your life trying to get all touchy/feely? 

 

Love isn't touchy feely.

If it was, I could have that act licked real quick.

 

Don't you think that a guy who struggles to feel sorry when the fact that he has upset someone else is brought to his attention and therefore thinks he can't apologise ~ is going to make a pigs ear of the empathy and sensitivity that is needed before offers of practical help will bless rather than undermine someone who is disabled?

 

Dead issue.

[a midnight star]

First, I didn't think I did anything wrong, and secondly, I hate the goo-goo over the internet pretend *Hugz* like anyone could really care about someone they've never met.

 

This is bull!! I for one do feel for those who have been through rapes and molestations. I have been through it myself and I sympathize with all who have gone through it. I know how they felt and feel now. It doesn’t matter if I know the person personally or not. The pain and feelings of rage I feel every time I hear about someone going through this IS real. Don’t pretend that you are able to read our minds and know if we are sincere or not. Just because you aren’t or can’t be doesn’t mean that we aren’t!!!

 

When you did that, you effectively told them that they'd got everything wrong and that what happened was a blessing in disguise. (yes, some people say that too...)

 

Agreed. I have had a son taken away because I left the church. He went to my brother’s house. His wife said and I quote “maybe this was the reason god didn’t let me get pregnant, so that we could care for your son”. SO this was all a part of god’s plan?

 

The most theraputic thing that could have been done in my case would have been for my attacker to admit they'd done wrong and apologize

 

2 months ago I would have disagreed with you on this. My Uncle died last month and he did apologize for what he did. It mattered to me. That was a surprise, but it gave me some closure on what had happened. It took some of the sting away. When I was told that he was dying I felt nothing. Not anger, not sadness, just nothing. But the fact that he was sorry helped. The only thorn in this is that I am not sure whether or not he did it just so he wouldn’t go to hell. Then it is just worthless.

[The Silent One]

That's okay.

 

A question for you to answer, if you are so inclined:

When you were a JW Pastor did you really care about the people you were ministering to -- the people you talked to door to door -- or did you only think you cared -- did you only care because it bought you salvation?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Considering I considered many of them friends - and maintained some of those friendships even after they told me they weren't interested in becoming a witness?

 

You bet your ass I cared about them, not just because I thought I'd help them to the new world - but because they were good people.

[Mad_Gerbil]

Considering I considered many of them friends - and maintained some of those friendships even after they told me they weren't interested in becoming a witness?

 

You bet your ass I cared about them, not just because I thought I'd help them to the new world - but because they were good people.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well I'd expect you to care about people you'd developed friendships with -- I was talking more along the lines of people you met and never saw again.

 

I'm not completely heartless -- there are alot of people I really care about as well.

[The Silent One]

Well I'd expect you to care about people you'd developed friendships with -- I was talking more along the lines of people you met and never saw again.

 

I'm not completely heartless -- there are alot of people I really care about as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I cared about them as much as I cared about anyone - the concept of 'this is gaining me salvation' never really even came into the mental processes, I preached because I believed that was the right thing to do.

[Mad_Gerbil]

I cared about them as much as I cared about anyone - the concept of 'this is gaining me salvation' never really even came into the mental processes, I preached because I believed that was the right thing to do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Okay -- now read the following understanding in advance that I'm not saying any of this is/was true for you. I'm talking about my experience here -- no implications on you in this....

 

For me I think alot of it (fundyism) was about ego and the need to be 100% sure and right about things. While I thought I was doing it out of 'love' upon examination that wasn't my reason at all. I didn't think I was earning salvation but I did think I was... oh, I dunno... claiming higher ground or some such nonsense. Carving a name for myself in the halls of Christian greatness or some such rot.

 

A very narcissistic approach on my part.

 

Of course blended into that was the desire to do the right thing but in the end I think the main motivation was MY NEED and not the need of the people to which I was speaking.

 

Being a pastor at one point you are aware of I Cor 13.

A haunting passage for the narcissist, to be sure.

 

So when I say that I don't care that people here to go hell what I'm saying is that I can no longer pretend that I care when my actions aren't motivated by love and a genuine concern for others. It is a rude thing to say, no doubt about it -- but I bet some homosexuals here can relate to it in the sense that at some point they just came out and stopped mincing words and said "I'M GAY DAMMIT".

 

So for me, I've got to say it:

I DON'T CARE and more importantly, I don't have within myself the power to care. I see this as exciting because now I can begin to explore what it will take to fix the problem. I love stark embraces of reality -- I like it when people can throw off the garbage and be blunt and truthful. What I said isn't a reflection on your worth as a person but more on where I'm at.

[Alice]

Love isn't touchy feely.

If it was, I could have that act licked real quick.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

If you are wanting conversation rather than debate, you have a strange inclination to argue the toss instead of running with the subject.

 

I ask you instead, ...if your salvation is a free gift and God loves you as you are ~ why complicate your life by trying to be more loving?

 

And if you are wanting to be more loving ... a start could be to stop dismissing someone else's live pain as a dead issue.

 

What I'm trying to get at ~ is that your comment that maybe you should 'go and mow the lawn for a handicapped * person' doesn't sound like it is motivated by love ~ what was that motivated by?

 

(*not a term I'd use myself)

[doomguarder]

After reading this thread and another, I started this one.

 

Just a shameless plug.

 

Proceed with your thread...

[BeccasStillSeeking]

Then you're an asshole pure and simple.  Anyone who can believe what you do and not give a shit about those facing eternal damnation is not only a poor xtian, but a poor excuse for a human being.  This is not a wart on your personality, this is an admission to being a psychopath.

 

To answer your question, no we don't want you bugging us telling us we are going to hell, but that's because we don't believe there is a hell to go to.  If we believed in one, believe me, we would be the one's out there making asses of ourselves trying to stand in the gate to stem the tide.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Dude--I thought Mad Gerbil spent the ENTIRE LAST THREAD he was on proving beyond the shadow of a doubt that he's an asshole.

 

Hell? What? *snort* I'm going to end up in Jerusalem's garbage dump? OK, fine. I'll bring my archaeology kit. One will find far more potsherds in Sheol than demons.