Hi My Name Is Aaron And Im A Christian How Are You Today/nite/morning/afternoon?

[bdp]

I am getting a distinct feeling that atheists on this forum should "put up or shut up" if we don't agree with something, and I don't like it.

 

I like to talk. I like dialogue. But it makes me very upset to see you, a moderator, taking cheap shots at forum members when they have tried to have a dialogue, as LL has done in this thread. The last few responses from other forum members you have used to take shots at LL, and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. You ARE a moderator. Why are you doing this?

Exactly why I took an extended leave from this place a while back.</p>

[mymistake]

I think I found the label for me now... I'm a transatheist.

 

Ourboros, are you pre-transatheist or post-transatheist?It really matters as to how I approach you cognation.(The cogs of your brain before your transphraseology)

 

That was what I was driving at earlier. To the skeptic these religious words are poorly defined (if at all) and unestablished. Using them sounds a lot like a bad episode of Star Trek. Connect the warp induction array to the inverted neutrino phase conduit! But skeptics and the religious don't have much to talk about. They can't communicate because different world view have them speaking different languages. We don't have to be rude to the other camp but it would probably benefit everyone to recognize these differences.

[Antlerman]

Yes I use Wilber a lot with my own persoanl thoughts and experiences. What of it Deva?

 

Just pointing out when a definition of certain words was asked for, you provided one but didn't reference your source. Later you did. That's all. I don't care if you are a Wilber disciple.

Thanks Deva. Good to hear your true thoughts. Thanks for sharing them.

[pratt]

this is a thread started by aaron to try to lead exC back home or he was trying to learn. he was way over his head and in the midst of getting married, it became apparent that he would not able to reply to the thread.

 

End3 came in and some sparring occurredand AM somehow replied on spirituality and LL came hard against any form of spirituality.

 

Did AM come on hard as a MOD? I don't think so. I am an exC, not an atheist. This is Lion's Den. Words transpired, some rude, some condescending some just dismissing.

 

Whatever that is good, is kind and benefincial, dwell on these things. As much as "rationalism" is a comfort blanket for some, meditation, some cherry picking buddhism or whatever form of "spiritualism" for others. As long as it helps one grow as decent man, it is good enough for me.

 

Like Aaron said in the beginning, I am here to learn.

 

Cheers, Peace, Shalom

[midniterider]

. My original post was a waste of breath.

[LivingLife]

Ll its all in the manner you engage with me. You talk like an ass to me. So I don't respect you very much at all. You assign motives to me that are cheap bogus and offensive. I don't fear any of your supposed logic. So I simply refuse to talk with an ass.

 

Where and what did I do wrong? It seems like you are just being a frigging asshole yourself. Making blanket statements and not citations is exactly what the xian woos do when cornered.  You are no different.  

 

Remember you engaged me first.  I had shit with the editor and then managed a work-a-round. I was pissed after the 1-1/2 hours I spent in a rebuttal and then it all went south. I wanted to inform you I had replied but it tanked.  You have had ample time to retract yet you continue to bully behind your mod status.  Why do you want to take over a and indeed hijack a thread in the LD for your own "spiritual" agenda? You have a safe place and we heathen scum do not go there.

You have the tools to merge and split threads. But let us go back to who I actually responded to

 

AM, I find your reasoning regarding validation of subjective experiences fascinating. "Free-for-all" is exactly how I view quite a few religious reports, especially from faiths that fail the Turing test I describe above. The experiences you describe, like those some people on this site have had, just don't seem like they fall into the same category as a fundie saying God told him he hates gays or an eclectic New Ager who thinks he can make astral war upon the SomethingAwful goons who insulted his favorite webcomic. Can you help me understand what makes an experience peer-reviewed? How do you assess a claim about a spiritual experience?

All of it happens in the brain.  It is wishful thinking that there is some other dimension when one has to enter into meditation (altered brain states) to "connect".

 

IMO spirituality is just another excuse for nothing and those that seek other paths of enlightenment, well good for them but that does not prove any of it is real.

 

In defence of their beliefs, folk often erect strawmen they then dismantle. You really cannot describe fantasy with "materialistic" tools. If mere thoughts and preponderance of reality is what spirituality means, then I have no need for it. Special pleading for "something else is out there, you just gotta believe or have faith" is just special pleading.

 

I suppose quoting her was not necessary as my post followed sequentially.

 

Then the fun started.

 

I am not going to try a dissertation with my editor still screwed up but needless to say, you started just as I had predicted building up strawmen.  Sadly I got sucked into your shit. *note to self - do not engage A-Man, he is very sensitive to his beliefs being challenged*

 

You have not even attempted to respond and just hurl out insults. Well I can give them as good as I can take them. You really have egg on your face IMO looking at the reps I got agreeing with me telling you off. Now just pot shots with your fans? Great way to show your leadership as a moderator, cannot recall me EVER doing this as a mod. But I suppose decorum is something you still need to lurn...

 

IMO you are trying to convert this site into something of an alternative spiritual one.

 

For the record I am well known on other forums as SeekerSA and I used to be the Administrator at the Universalist Tentmaker forum. I have pissed off quite a few Unis with my deconversion as I know their shit well.

 

I had my own forum for a long while and many followed me away from Tentmaker as they did not like the fundumentalist (read:your style of bullying) moderation that was taking place, not allowed to challenge concepts of the Trinity, Inerrancy et al.

 

So what is it, are you a closet xian with buddhist leanings? Your "apologetic" style and theirs are awfully similar....

 

Man up and go back to the 3 replies you ignored and tell me where I was hurting your feelings

[owen652]

"I can't believe I used to fall for that Christian bullshit. It's so ridiculous. There's no evidence for it, it's all subjective nonsense. Now, post-transcendental reincarnationism on the other hand...."

 

Antlerman, surely you understand how ex-Christians seem to find the language, imagery and spirituality you speak of to sound incredibly familiar to our ears. That's why we are so sceptical of it. We are very accustomed to being told, by people not unlike yourself in earnestness, that we cannot possibly understand because we haven't experienced it. And we haven't experienced it because we either don't have enough faith, or we haven't really tried, or are just not mature enough spiritually, or our minds are not open enough etc etc. We've heard it all before and felt the guilt asscociated with it, because we weren't 'baptised in the Holy Spirit' or whatever else. What about those, like myself, who genuinely desire spiritual nourishment, and have attempted to achieve it, both in my former Christian incarnation and afterwards? The last couple of years I have been reading Eckhart Tolle and others of his ilk with great interest and tried to enter these meditative states, but failed, and I know others have failed too. Although I should point out that I still believe and hold to the broader teachings of Tolle. I just haven't yet stumbled upon this 'ocean' that you speak of, not for want of trying. could it be that only certain personality types have this particular ability? and could that not be further evidence that this is simply a psychological phenomenon, like speaking in tongues and being slain in the spirit? I'm not convinced even a smidge that those 'gifts of the spirit' are anything other than self-induced, but I am willing to be convinced that some sort of spiritual realm exists. However, so far I have seen no reason to believe it is any more real than the Christian religical spasmings.

[Deva]

Yes I use Wilber a lot with my own persoanl thoughts and experiences. What of it Deva?

 

Just pointing out when a definition of certain words was asked for, you provided one but didn't reference your source. Later you did. That's all. I don't care if you are a Wilber disciple.

Thanks Deva. Good to hear your true thoughts. Thanks for sharing them.

 

I would just like to add that in my opinion doing an exposition of any spiritual type path in The Lion's Den is almost tantamount to asking for trouble. It is very obvious that the primary reason for this site is to help people in the deconversion process.

 

I like that this is not a site for atheists only. I also like the spirituality forum because I like to discuss other paths, but I don't expect acceptance or understanding of Buddhism or Ken Wilbur's philosophy, or some other path to take place here in the Den. Instead, I would expect that I would have to defend said philosophy against some very harsh skepticism. I have been here lone enough to understand that.

[Thought2Much]

Antlerman, surely you understand how ex-Christians seem to find the language, imagery and spirituality you speak of to sound incredibly familiar to our ears. That's why we are so sceptical of it. We are very accustomed to being told, by people not unlike yourself in earnestness, that we cannot possibly understand because we haven't experienced it. And we haven't experienced it because we either don't have enough faith, or we haven't really tried, or are just not mature enough spiritually, or our minds are not open enough etc etc. We've heard it all before and felt the guilt asscociated with it, because we weren't 'baptised in the Holy Spirit' or whatever else.

 

Thank you for writing this. I had been mulling over words very similar to these last night, but you wrote them down before I got a chance to.

 

Antlerman, do you not see that the kind of language you use to describe your beliefs sets off big klaxons in the minds of former Christians, particularly if they were once part of the more charismatic or pentecostal branches of the faith, and that this might be why your ideas are sometimes reacted to so harshly? In one of your previous posts, you mentioned disappointment about people not asking you what you really mean in your posts, and reacting harshly. If what you are saying comes off as spiritual woo, why would people who have been doing their level-headed best to eliminate spiritual woo from their lives be interested in finding out more about what you are talking about? Plus, this "ask me about my spirituality" tactic sounds exactly like how Christians operate, which sends up all kinds of warning flags for ex-christians.

[asanerman]

"Peer Review" is tough medicine!Because it's tough doesn't mean that it's not good. If it leads to less bias, less judgment, less sense of a heavy trip, an added layer of honoring selves--it's got to be good medicine!

[Antlerman]

Ll its all in the manner you engage with me. You talk like an ass to me. So I don't respect you very much at all. You assign motives to me that are cheap bogus and offensive. I don't fear any of your supposed logic. So I simply refuse to talk with an ass.

 

Where and what did I do wrong? It seems like you are just being a frigging asshole yourself. Making blanket statements and not citations is exactly what the xian woos do when cornered. You are no different.

 

Remember you engaged me first. I had shit with the editor and then managed a work-a-round. I was pissed after the 1-1/2 hours I spent in a rebuttal and then it all went south. I wanted to inform you I had replied but it tanked. You have had ample time to retract yet you continue to bully behind your mod status.

A couple things I need to say. First, you are mostly correct. I know I reacted poorly towards you throwing up huge walls at you. In looking at the intensity of my personal reactions it caused me to look at myself with you. I'm serious when I say this has nothing to do with challenges to my thoughts, trying to avoid responding or any such thing. I truly enjoy dialoging about these ways of looking at things and exploring challenges to them. I'm hardly married to these models like some religious truth. It's not about that. It's about my personality with yours. I've seen this for a long time on this site, reading other material you post. You seriously rub me the wrong way. Is that your fault? Likely not as much as I'd like to tell myself.

 

What this is for me is what I often tell others when they experience severe reactions in themselves with other people. I say it has likely little to do with who the other person really is, but with who you see them as. It's the Jungian shadow persona. We see in others enough of something that we see in ourselves that we then symbolically heap upon them all our own stuff we have hidden into the shadows of our psyches. Is that the other person's fault? No. It's our own issues we need to deal with. So all that to say I apologize for reacting as severely as I did to you. That I will own and try to figure out in myself what is going on with me. I am sorry I unjustly ripped you, when clearly I was quite mistaken in my judgement of the whole TLDR reference. This goes back way before this thread for me, and my response towards you was undeserved.

 

The second point, and I'll say this with complete clarity of mind, I do not hide behind being a moderator. That is entirely your perception of me adding a layer of motivation to my actions. I am very cognitively aware of my role as a moderator and I never abuse that for personal disagreements with others. I consider it a matter of personal integrity to never go that path in the same way for me working in IT having access to all company information. Even though I could abuse that easily, to do so is a failure to myself and everyone else. In moderating here, whenever I feel I am too close to any issue that my personal feelings might affect my judgement, I will ping one of the other mods to look at the situation and offer their thoughts and recommendations, or outright take into the their own hands instead of mine as a moderator. I know Oroborus can confirm this is historically true. Bottom line, I am not, will not, hide behind being a mod in anything.

 

Why do you want to take over a and indeed hijack a thread in the LD for your own "spiritual" agenda? You have a safe place and we heathen scum do not go there.

Oh, this wasn't hijacking a thread. As happens historically in the LD, especially when the OP has flown the coop, these threads take on a life of their own. This is what happened here and I was joking about how it was End3's fault, that he's rowing a boat with a single oar in the water. One thought led to another until we ended up talking about spirituality from mine and a few others points of view as ExChristians. There is no spiritual agenda to try to convert the atheists. No pushing this on you or anyone else. I share and talk about these things here because they are exciting and meaningful to me personally on the long and painstaking road I've been on since my fundi-Christian days. It's wonderful for me personally. But I have no delusions that this is for everyone. Not at all. Nor is it necessary in order for you to live a happy and full life.

 

Do I challenge your views or those of other atheists? Oh sure, yes. You do others views too. How is that different? Do you see yourself as pushing your views with an atheist agenda? Do I attack philosophies like materialism and reductionism? Yes. Why? Because in the area of debating ideas I find it fair game for criticism. It's philosophically flawed. Do I attack atheism? In general no. In fact, for all intents and purposes I too am an atheist. I reject the literal Christian views of deity, which is in fact exactly what atheism in the West is in reference to. So yes, I wore the title Atheist for a long time as an ExChristian. I don't believe that God exists; not in the way they imagine. You and I are both in agreement here.

 

But even as an Atheist here for years on this site, and being a moderator too that whole time I'll add, I disliked what I called the "religious atheists", meaning those that were the Torches and Pitchforks Atheists, those that had a desire to seek out and destroy anything spiritual where they saw it crying "woo" as they flooded the streets. As a self-identified Atheist, I still disliked and challenged that view equally as much as I do now choosing to not self-identify with that title. But what I see, because I push the boundaries of thoughts and ideas and personal experience, and now comfortably for myself use the terms spirit and god and whatnot as means to express things, not literally of course, but in highly symbolic languages, that now suddenly that exact same dislike for reductionism and anti-religious zeal becomes about some "spiritual agenda", like that means some new religion to push and shove on others - whereas before it wasn't quite so bad as "one of us"? I'm hoping you as a clearly rational person can appreciate what I'm saying here.

 

 

As for using language the makes people uncomfortable, sure I get it. I can see why. For me, these terms have meaning beyond the way Christians mean them where they actually make real sense, just in no way a Christian really gets. I consider it in many ways of moving beyond Christianity by simply outgrowing them, with their symbols as well. What is left then? To me, this is far more effective in us moving forward as a culture than to simply smash the idols and say everything they represent is 'woo'. That's just intellectually untrue. But what they represent is something in our psyches about who we are as human beings in the world. My personal views at this point sees atheism as a positive move in the right direction, but not the final move. I just see where I am exploring as the next step from there. Then there will be a next step beyond here. And another step beyond there, and so on. That's evolution. No one is at the top, not you, not me. And I don't mean this is as an absolute either. How can we predict the path evolution takes? But be assured, your views aren't the end of that road either.

 

But that said, I think I have become so comfortable with using this language in these contexts now, especially in more primary discussions with those in the Spirituality forums where it's not necessary for me to be as cognizant of the language, that here in the Lion's Den I forget the level of reflex response the language can evoke. I need to be more sensitive to that. Then of course, when others react with pitchforks in hand and accuse me of all sorts of agendas and motives to my actions, needless to say I respond negatively. I'll own that.

 

Should we have isolated areas for only like-minded people to hang out? I've never really liked that idea. I love the free exchange of ideas in an open community of mutual respect. But in the real world, that doesn't always happen. The Spirituality forum was created because of the very reason you saw happen in this thread, attacking anything spiritual with the cries, "woo"! Members couldn't open their mouths about anything about personal spirituality without being jumped on with 'prove it!" demands, etc. I as an avowed Atheist at that time found that behavior unfortunate. But it became a necessary move that the Webmaster of this site created for its membership to create a more heavily moderated area where the 'woo' atheists were expected to behave themselves with those of alternative views. Now, sadly it is sounding like those specific members of the site are wanting a protected forum so us so-called 'woo's' can't come in and try to supposedly convert them. I'm thinking to myself, should the Lion's Den become the Atheist's Den? But then, how is that anything less than dividing off the site into yet another so-called 'protected forum'? Isn't that exactly the same thing? (BTW, this last paragraph here was me pondering things as a moderator - so no LL, I'm not about driving out other views, but hoping for the very opposite.)

 

That's about all I say to this for now after yesterday's unfortunate blowup. There were others who were enjoying the discussion about spirituality that had just organically evolved, but we'll see if maybe with some hope and effort on all our parts, that we can actually engage in a dialog without all these unnecessary attacks on each other. My god, we're all beyond Christianity now.

[Antlerman]

I want to add another thought to the whole sensitivity to the language which sounds 'just like what they said'. In an ironic sense, yes it sounds just like it. But it's content is deeply different. In fact its so different that when I hear them say these things I'm just like "wow, you really don't see it, do you?" Aside from that fact however, I wish to share a personal experience of recent days where I met someone at an Ex-Fundamentalists group locally where we all meet and share stories and thoughts over coffee every couple weeks. He in fact is pretty much exactly where I am at, and all the technical lingo I use, he uses as well. We very much see eye to eye philosophically and experientially in these contemplative areas. However, he too, like you and many here, has a hard time using the terms I do of God and Spirit, etc. Even though content-wise we are identical, he has a hard time with the use of those symbols. He is pretty exactly where I am at. (Good to be making a new personal friend, BTW).

 

That to say, I'm working in myself to try to find a way to open dialog without unduly creating obstacles along the way. I know he understands my use of those symbols in terms of speech when I fall upon them, and I try to be mindful of the whole "too close to home" reactions he has. At one time for me it was too close to home as well, but I'm not there anymore. It's no big deal now for me. Others aren't me, and it's my responsibility to be sensitive to that. Hopefully they too might be comfortable with where I'm at as well without misjudging my intentions or meanings. It's not simple I know, as throwing up walls of protection around myself in that process of deconversion is something I am fully well familiar with in personal experience. It's part of the process of healing. It's how we differentiate ourselves as "not this" anymore.

 

Eventually, whatever we find down the road that suits us beyond the past modes of operation then becomes a process of integration. We move beyond identifying as 'not this', into who we truly are in our own unique individuality. What you can call me if anything in all of this is in pursuit of an integral philosophy to support my human experience. I think we hope to as well in whatever course that takes.

[Ouroboros]

I know Oroborus can confirm this is historically true. Bottom line, I am not, will not, hide behind being a mod in anything.

That's my cue.

 

Yes, I can confirm that. Antlerman does not use his mod status to impose his ideas or thoughts. And neither am I. ... At least we both try our hardest for this to be true.

 

There's a enormous challenge to be a member and moderator on a forum. People easily misinterpret a moderators personal views as some control mechanism that everyone has to bow to. But it's not the case. Our intention is that we can discuss and participate as members and putting the moderator hat aside, but when an issue comes up where a moderating function has to step in, we put that hat on. It's quite difficult at times where to draw the line.

 

So my input to this discussion is, even though I'm don't understand many of Antlerman's arguments and views regarding spirituality, I don't see him abusing his moderator status anywhere.

[Ouroboros]

That to say, I'm working in myself to try to find a way to open dialog without unduly creating obstacles along the way. I know he understands my use of those symbols in terms of speech when I fall upon them, and I try to be mindful of the whole "too close to home" reactions he has.

The beginning of a meaningful discussion is to have a common language and mutual platform to work from. I think you're at a different place right now where very few newly Ex-Christians have been. I'm not saying your place is better or higher or lower or worse or whatever... it's just different, but it's a platform and language many here can't understand. Even I don't understand a majority of what you're saying, but I do have a feeling to what you're trying to say. But we can't connect... at least not yet. And it's probably the same for several other members.

[Antlerman]

That to say, I'm working in myself to try to find a way to open dialog without unduly creating obstacles along the way. I know he understands my use of those symbols in terms of speech when I fall upon them, and I try to be mindful of the whole "too close to home" reactions he has.

The beginning of a meaningful discussion is to have a common language and mutual platform to work from. I think you're at a different place right now where very few newly Ex-Christians have been. I'm not saying your place is better or higher or lower or worse or whatever... it's just different, but it's a platform and language many here can't understand. Even I don't understand a majority of what you're saying, but I do have a feeling to what you're trying to say. But we can't connect... at least not yet. And it's probably the same for several other members.

Thanks, I appreciate the feedback and the support you show. I've been told by my partner that she thinks I need to just speak more from that place where I am at that really has true meaning, to speak of how I see the world, how I experience it using more emotional terms. That in in fact the real reality where it meets the ground. Of course, I've always been highly analytical and creating all sorts of models and stuff is really fun and fascinating for me. But I don't live in those models. Those are just supports I fall upon when trying to talk about the experience of all of this. Those models are at best 'tentative', and certainly not "it" itself. The danger for me personally is to get so wrapped up in the mental aspects of it that I miss the actual heart. Experiential becomes replaced by academic.

 

So I suppose this is my public commitment to try to force myself down another path of communication for my own sake as well. Call it a commitment to simplicity. There is life after dogma, and it's not in another dogma. Models of reality are all good and fine, but we all have to look for that wellspring from within ourselves that flows life to mind and heart. That's where the real truth is, and that truth is going to be different for each person on their path into self-discovery. You're absolutely correct, this is 'better' for me, but not necessarily 'better' for another. Tomorrow there will undoubtedly be a better 'better' for me as well. It's all doing what works for us where we are at on our growth paths. The only thing we all should be doing is growing. And that - that - is why moving away from dogma serves us all. It frees us in that exploration.

[Antlerman]

But we can't connect... at least not yet. And it's probably the same for several other members.

Actually, I think far closer than you realize. I'll try to expose that more clearly at some point. As you know, we always seem to end up circling over the years. This isn't any different.

[Ouroboros]

So I suppose this is my public commitment to try to force myself down another path of communication for my own sake as well. Call it a commitment to simplicity. There is life after dogma, and it's not in another dogma. Models of reality are all good and fine, but we all have to look for that wellspring from within ourselves that flows life to mind and heart. That's where the real truth is, and that truth is going to be different for each person on their path into self-discovery. You're absolutely correct, this is 'better' for me, but not necessarily 'better' for another. Tomorrow there will undoubtedly be a better 'better' for me as well. It's all doing what works for us where we are at on our growth paths. The only thing we all should be doing is growing. And that - that - is why moving away from dogma serves us all. It frees us in that exploration.

Right. I understand you there.

 

And something that always comes to my mind when I learn, or try to learn from other people, the phrase "when the student is ready, the master will be there." That phrase means to me that when a person's state of mind and thought process has reached a certain aspect of understanding, anyone can be the teacher that takes the student to the next level. In other words, it's more about at what point a person is to learn, than who the teacher is or what the teacher says. That's why I don't always talk to people about all the things I know, think, or believe, because I have to know first if they're even on the level of communicating with me. And if they are, it seems like you barely have to say much, and both understand each other.

[Antlerman]

So I suppose this is my public commitment to try to force myself down another path of communication for my own sake as well. Call it a commitment to simplicity. There is life after dogma, and it's not in another dogma. Models of reality are all good and fine, but we all have to look for that wellspring from within ourselves that flows life to mind and heart. That's where the real truth is, and that truth is going to be different for each person on their path into self-discovery. You're absolutely correct, this is 'better' for me, but not necessarily 'better' for another. Tomorrow there will undoubtedly be a better 'better' for me as well. It's all doing what works for us where we are at on our growth paths. The only thing we all should be doing is growing. And that - that - is why moving away from dogma serves us all. It frees us in that exploration.

Right. I understand you there.

 

And something that always comes to my mind when I learn, or try to learn from other people, the phrase "when the student is ready, the master will be there." That phrase means to me that when a person's state of mind and thought process has reached a certain aspect of understanding, anyone can be the teacher that takes the student to the next level. In other words, it's more about at what point a person is to learn, than who the teacher is or what the teacher says. That's why I don't always talk to people about all the things I know, think, or believe, because I have to know first if they're even on the level of communicating with me. And if they are, it seems like you barely have to say much, and both understand each other.

Great wisdom. Words for me to ponder indeed.

[midniterider]

I know Oroborus can confirm this is historically true. Bottom line, I am not, will not, hide behind being a mod in anything.

That's my cue.

 

Yes, I can confirm that. Antlerman does not use his mod status to impose his ideas or thoughts. And neither am I. ... At least we both try our hardest for this to be true.

 

There's a enormous challenge to be a member and moderator on a forum. People easily misinterpret a moderators personal views as some control mechanism that everyone has to bow to. But it's not the case. Our intention is that we can discuss and participate as members and putting the moderator hat aside, but when an issue comes up where a moderating function has to step in, we put that hat on. It's quite difficult at times where to draw the line.

 

So my input to this discussion is, even though I'm don't understand many of Antlerman's arguments and views regarding spirituality, I don't see him abusing his moderator status anywhere.

 

I guess I missed the part in this thread where a moderator said, "Believe what I believe or you are banned!"

[LivingLife]

Aman, apology accepted and my apologies too for losing it. I do want to quote and deal with certain things you mentioned but I am really not up to it right now, maybe tomorrow, I'll see.

 

I do appreciate the dialling down and you will find I shall do so in kind. Know this, anyone pursuing an alternate path of whatever makes them feel whole, I do not discourage or begrudge them that. To clarify the experiences being personal and "in your mind" is not a put down. I did this too as a christian so I know from personal experience how real this seems and becomes a personal reality. But my personal experiences did not and do not reflect reality for the common man. Each person's journey in life is unique and we find folk that think alike and folk that don't.

 

The many ways folk interpret their god (who is supposed to be the same) brought me to the conclusion it is all in the head and made up, even though whatever they experience is real to them. I looked into alternate paths and found the results to be the same, mostly self induced and for my part, unnecessary. I compare it to that mysterious "god shaped vacuum/hole" we are supposed to have but that hole is non existent in me anyway.

 

I'll leave it there for now. Hopefully you all can see, I really do not have issues with anyone's beliefs except self proclaimed xian apologists that come here. I really cannot argue the merits or lack thereof of Buddhism as i never really got into it. Some wise sage sayings that I can relate to and that is about the depth.

 

Perhaps you should look at starting your own forum where you can focus on your beliefs and help other folk. I do believe you are sincere in that regard. By this I do not mean you should leave just a place where it is set up specifically around your personal preferences and you "control" what happens. This is what I did when folk from TM wanted to explore stuff with me that was verboten on TM. We ran for about 18 months then FB came along and we all went there instead.

[♦ ficino ♦]

 

Perhaps you should look at starting your own forum where you can focus on your beliefs and help other folk.

 

Or maybe at least a new topic in another forum?

[MrsRoper]

I am so glad you guys made up. Thank Santa Christ.

[par4dcourse]

 

I guess I missed the part in this thread where a moderator said, "Believe what I believe or you are banned!"

 

One doesn't seriously insult the boss over drinks Friday night if he has to face him Monday morning.

[ConureDelSol]

Wait, did my spur have amber on it. Maybe I can extract the dna from the blood of the mosquito that just bit the spur maker.

 

God save the queen! I kick myself for leaving out this possibility.

 

DINOSAUR DNA!

 

I can't resist an opportunity to make movie references.

[Antlerman]

Perhaps you should look at starting your own forum where you can focus on your beliefs and help other folk.

 

Or maybe at least a new topic in another forum?

Why another forum? The only reason for the Spirituality forum is for a safe haven for those who didn't appreciate the barrage of challenges to their discussions surrounding spirituality. I personally don't care either way. Sometimes I don't feel like bothering to debate, other times I happy to try to answer. The only reason I can see not talking about spirituality in this forum is if it was a designated safe forum for atheist-centered topics. It's not that, rather its a sort of mixing pot of mish-mash discussions. The Colosseum on the other hand there are much more rules regarding conduct and staying on topic. If anywhere there can be an actual focused dialog between differing opinions that's the best place. But at this point this thread is a sort whatever arises thread. That's pretty common for the Lion's Den.