JadedAtheist Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Evolution is the answer for everything. Unless one holds onto some form of spirituality, there is no other way to view love but as some result of evolution. For the longest time that took the value and meaning of love away from me, but I realize now that I was using the cold, unfeeling scientific view as an excuse not to have love or care for it because of my own deep searing hurt. A perfect example of cognitive dissonance, essentially a Fox and the Grapes moment. Since then, my heart has awoken so to speak. I don't really care how the biological processes work anymore. I just know Galien said it best when she said this: I dont care what anyone tells me about money or status or power or even religion. At the end of our lives, what remains are the connections we have with each other and THAT is the most important thing. Can't really add to that, that's essentially my view in a nutshell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunaticheathen Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 I'd add to what JA said, that this whole dividing the world into material and non-material, the physical and the spiritual, is fucking bullshit. And it leads exactly to this, the denial of one over the other, and the atrophy of emotions, because we're "just chemical machines." I'm not "just" anything, I'm a human being, a spiritual being, a woman, a smart bitch and a religious person, all at the same time. I can't divide myself into this and that, I can't "turn off" my emotions because they "aren't real" or "all in my head." As if we even fully understand the brain enough to reduce it down to electrical impulses and chemicals. That just makes you a small and pitiful person, to think of yourself in that way. To think your experiences and feelings mean nothing, because there's no physical experiment for such things. Are you a man, or a pile of carbon? You're both, really. Fucking act like it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denyoz Posted April 26, 2012 Author Share Posted April 26, 2012 It is a terrible thing that some people are so totally destroyed in their inner person by a bad marriage that they can not risk loving again. Love sure does suck for the sensitive, you tend to love and trust so deeply and when that is violated it kills a part of you. My heart goes out to anyone so destroyed. I think I am one of them. The love in me has been killed four times that I can remember. The loss of God, who was for me Love itself, was the worse. I feel dead now. When I see something that looks like love, I'm sure it's a trap. Except for some members of my family. Those ties are hard to break, like you explained in your post. Galien, you said: "At the end of our lives, what remains are the connections we have with each other and THAT is the most important thing." I've heard this so many times, and I don't understand why people say that. I used to think it meant that we are all going to see each other again in heaven. Then it would make sense. What do you mean by "what remains". The connections we have with each other do not remain, most of the time, even on earth, what makes you think that they remain at the end of our lives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Galien, you said: "At the end of our lives, what remains are the connections we have with each other and THAT is the most important thing." I have no idea why anyone would really believe something like this. It is the most incredible thing to me. As you get older, you lose everyone who ever personally cared for you or connected with you, that is a fact. Hell, maybe some people do have an abundance of family and friends where this wouldn't occur, but that doesn't happen for everyone. This statement is only true in an impersonal sense- that we are connected with everything else in nature. But that is not personal, individual, but universal and why that is so terribly important at the end certainly escapes me unless you have managed somehow to transcend the duality that is naturally so much a part of how we view the world. I say that would be rare. People die in many different ways, suddenly, or long drawn out. You cannot generalize and say what the most important thing would be at that moment. It is naive and simplistic to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denyoz Posted April 26, 2012 Author Share Posted April 26, 2012 I'm not "just" anything, I'm a human being, a spiritual being, a woman, a smart bitch... What do we call a spiritual being who does not believe in love? A demon. I'm a demon. The word even looks a lot like my real name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted April 26, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 26, 2012 What do we call a spiritual being who does not believe in love? A demon. I'm a demon. The word even looks a lot like my real name. What do we call a human that does not believe or feel love right now?..... Tired, worn out, hurt by the past, disappointed, disillusioned by the world, let down by the god he believed in, lonely and depressed and overwhelmed by life..... but one who also fights to stay positive and fight the negative the best way he knows how and wants to grasp anything that might give hope of some kind...... that there may be a pleasant future in store .... something to hold on to..... to live for....... that is not a demon in my opinion......it is a 'burnt out' human being who probably wishes...right under the skin...that they could be vulerable and trusting again.... no demon there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 A lot of people simply can't relate to a marriage gone completely totally wrong. Well I can certainly relate to that. It's enough to make you swear to never love again. I hope you find a job you like, or some other way to keep money coming in. My empathy is with you, from the bottom of my intellect. It is a terrible thing that some people are so totally destroyed in their inner person by a bad marriage that they can not risk loving again. Love sure does suck for the sensitive, you tend to love and trust so deeply and when that is violated it kills a part of you. My heart goes out to anyone so destroyed. Its really not so terrible. You can save your pity for someone who cares about your opinion, Galien. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 I am not without feelings, I have not been "destroyed". I hold compassion as the highest value, because of what i have been through. I don't expect my feelings to be returned. I am not that naive. I just don't believe in "love" as it is usually depicted. I have felt deep empathy, sympathy, oneness, etc.,.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denyoz Posted April 26, 2012 Author Share Posted April 26, 2012 Oh Margee, I wasn't finished. I've just written the most ugly post of all, and now you interrupt with loving words, and my whole angry rambling will only look like a farce! Well here it is anyway, then after we can talk about love: - - - - - - - - - - - If love is a spiritual thing that transcends the physical body, then why do I need pills to make me act like a loving person? Pills are just chemicals, acting on other chemicals, and it works. If it wasn't for those pills, I could not tolerate people, and would have to isolate myself completely in order to survive (maybe that's what I was meant to do). Where is the transcendent Love that sustains the whole universe? Why doesn't it go through me like before? I desperately want it back. Why do others still have it and I don't? Sure, I can fake it. Is everybody else faking it too? The only thing "spiritual" that transcends me is life. Not love. Just life. I'm learning to be happy with life, forget about love. It's gone, for now anyway, maybe it will come back later. But right now there is only life. And without love I feel dead. So I'm a living dead demon zombie. You should all be very afraid of me. If I bite you will turn into a zombie too. Or is this just a vampire thing? No I'm pretty sure zombies have it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunaticheathen Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Ok Mr "Pill Demon", when you're done with your pity party, I'll still be the flaky god-believer that has love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadedAtheist Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Its really not so terrible. You can save your pity for someone who cares about your opinion, Galien. You are the master of misreading what someone says, and biting back with your venom. Take a chill pill, Deva. I though you would've learned that after your biff with Foxy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Galien, you said: "At the end of our lives, what remains are the connections we have with each other and THAT is the most important thing." I have no idea why anyone would really believe something like this. It is the most incredible thing to me. As you get older, you lose everyone who ever personally cared for you or connected with you, that is a fact. Hell, maybe some people do have an abundance of family and friends where this wouldn't occur, but that doesn't happen for everyone. This statement is only true in an impersonal sense- that we are connected with everything else in nature. But that is not personal, individual, but universal and why that is so terribly important at the end certainly escapes me unless you have managed somehow to transcend the duality that is naturally so much a part of how we view the world. I say that would be rare. People die in many different ways, suddenly, or long drawn out. You cannot generalize and say what the most important thing would be at that moment. It is naive and simplistic to do so. Then go do some volunteer work as a palliative carer, then come back and tell me what you think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 A lot of people simply can't relate to a marriage gone completely totally wrong. Well I can certainly relate to that. It's enough to make you swear to never love again. I hope you find a job you like, or some other way to keep money coming in. My empathy is with you, from the bottom of my intellect. It is a terrible thing that some people are so totally destroyed in their inner person by a bad marriage that they can not risk loving again. Love sure does suck for the sensitive, you tend to love and trust so deeply and when that is violated it kills a part of you. My heart goes out to anyone so destroyed. Its really not so terrible. You can save your pity for someone who cares about your opinion, Galien. I don't do pity Deva. I spent a lot of years feeling wiped out as a person because of the way my second husband treated me. I never thought I wanted to or would be able to love again either in a romantic sense. When it happened it took me completely by suprise. And because I like people I did find it terrible to feel disconnected from them, not numb but not able to connect like I used to. I care about everyone's opinon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 We may not, know what love is, but very much know it exists and WE NEED IT. It makes us what we are as a race, its funny how we try to destroy or rape such a core concept of value. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 That is the full video of what that music video used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Its really not so terrible. You can save your pity for someone who cares about your opinion, Galien. You are the master of misreading what someone says, and biting back with your venom. Take a chill pill, Deva. I though you would've learned that after your biff with Foxy. And why don't you butt out and mind your own business, JA. This was in no way directed to you. If someone posts something that rubs me the wrong way, I'm going to respond. As far as Foxy goes, I felt as free to respond to his uncalled for snide remarks and name-calling. He got what he was asking for. Now he's gone and I'm glad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 do some volunteer work as a palliative carer, then come back and tell me what you think No, I will leave that line of work to those better suited for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 It is a terrible thing that some people are so totally destroyed in their inner person by a bad marriage that they can not risk loving again. Love sure does suck for the sensitive, you tend to love and trust so deeply and when that is violated it kills a part of you. My heart goes out to anyone so destroyed. I don't do pity Deva. Yes you do, see above bolded parts. The rest of your post I omit, since it only applies to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 It is a terrible thing that some people are so totally destroyed in their inner person by a bad marriage that they can not risk loving again. Love sure does suck for the sensitive, you tend to love and trust so deeply and when that is violated it kills a part of you. My heart goes out to anyone so destroyed. I don't do pity Deva. Yes you do, see above bolded parts. The rest of your post I omit, since it only applies to you. Why do you think caring how other people feel is pity? Have you lived without love for so long that you don't remember what it is to care for the heart of another in a positive way, to want to help heal their hurt? Why do you take everything I say as some kind of attack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadedAtheist Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 And why don't you butt out and mind your own business, JA. This was in no way directed to you. If someone posts something that rubs me the wrong way, I'm going to respond. As far as Foxy goes, I felt as free to respond to his uncalled for snide remarks and name-calling. He got what he was asking for. Now he's gone and I'm glad. Why should I listen to you Ms Bossy Pants? (That's what Foxy called you right? Hahaha) I will "butt in" whenever I damn well feel like it Also, I find it interesting I am not allowed to respond to you if your post rubs me the wrong way, yet it's ok for you to do so to others? That's a bit hypocritical, Deva You should at the very least be able to take a jab if you're going to dish one out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 And why don't you butt out and mind your own business, JA. This was in no way directed to you. If someone posts something that rubs me the wrong way, I'm going to respond. As far as Foxy goes, I felt as free to respond to his uncalled for snide remarks and name-calling. He got what he was asking for. Now he's gone and I'm glad. Why should I listen to you Ms Bossy Pants? (That's what Foxy called you right? Hahaha) I will "butt in" whenever I damn well feel like it Also, I find it interesting I am not allowed to respond to you if your post rubs me the wrong way, yet it's ok for you to do so to others? That's a bit hypocritical, Deva You should at the very least be able to take a jab if you're going to dish one out Yes, go ahead and bring something up from the past that doesn't concern you at all. You have some kind of a problem. Why the hell should I care what you have to say? Fuck off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadedAtheist Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Yes, go ahead and bring something up from the past that doesn't concern you at all. You have some kind of a problem. Why the hell should I care what you have to say? Fuck off. You want to play the venom game? Let's do it I may have a problem, but at least I am not a lonely, bitter old woman who is stuck in a dead end job, who will never amount to anything despite how hard she will try. Your turn, Deva. I'm ready, but you've probably blocked me already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Is that you and your wife in the photo? Wow, you are both really attractive... better not get too close to me. Thanks. Yup that was us ±27 years ago. We actually had an amazing vacation in our first jointly acquired new car and went to Cape Town. If you are interested, here is the FB page of the vacation pics. Mostly Cape Town and a bit of the journey back along what here is known as the Garden route. Two hotties! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Yes, go ahead and bring something up from the past that doesn't concern you at all. You have some kind of a problem. Why the hell should I care what you have to say? Fuck off. You want to play the venom game? Let's do it I may have a problem, but at least I am not a lonely, bitter old woman who is stuck in a dead end job, who will never amount to anything despite how hard she will try. Your turn, Deva. I'm ready, but you've probably blocked me already I am no longer going to respond to your little vendetta. Not worth my time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadedAtheist Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 I am no longer going to respond to your little vendetta. Not worth my time. Giving up so soon? Oh well, at least you know I don't pity you, you gotta give me that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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