Lilith666 Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Keep in mind that they don't just speak out against marriage equality; they donate to anti-gay groups. Also remember that the Chicago mayors are abridging CFA's free speech rights by banning them from putting up more sites in the city based on their opinion and how they spend their money. I think the move to ban CFA is stupid. It's garnering sympathy from free speech-lovers who might not otherwise give their money to that fast-food chain. They can't ban it everywhere, obviously, so what is the point? People still love chicken sandwiches and some people still hate homosexuality. Also, there are other ways to back the First Amendment without subsidizing prejudice: Protest the ban. Write to the mayors and remind them that we have a Constitution that grants citizens certain rights. But please don't help rob gays of their rights. I would not have a problem with CFA if Dan Cathy had simply said he's against gay marriage and left it at that. But he had to go and donate the company's money to anti-equality organizations. To everyone who asks why people think it's all right for pro-gays to have their views but conservatives can't have theirs: People have always disagreed with each other and debates are bound to get heated. Anger and probably hatred are on both sides, so nobody is innocent. It used to be that gays and their supporters were reviled by conservatives. That's how history goes--deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 People on all sides are making too big a deal out of this. Despite much larger head winds than CFA donations, gay rights are making good progress at a rate I, and I think most people, would have never predicted 20 years ago. Anti gay groups are more and more becoming marginalized and are at best preaching to the choir. There are much more important issues in the world and in the US than this silly chicken shack controversy, and finally, the nation is just too damned polarized over these stupid wedge issues and both sides of the table tend to be knee-jerkers. Instead, people could, I don't know, stop letting the tail wag them and quit buying into party bullshit that is intended to distract them from other issues; or at least relax and realize that life's just too short to be worried about every little thing the press, PR firms and political parties want them to be worried about. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xtech Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 People on all sides are making too big a deal out of this. Despite much larger head winds than CFA donations, gay rights are making good progress at a rate I, and I think most people, would have never predicted 20 years ago. Anti gay groups are more and more becoming marginalized and are at best preaching to the choir. There are much more important issues in the world and in the US than this silly chicken shack controversy, and finally, the nation is just too damned polarized over these stupid wedge issues and both sides of the table tend to be knee-jerkers. Instead, people could, I don't know, stop letting the tail wag them and quit buying into party bullshit that is intended to distract them from other issues; or at least relax and realize that life's just too short to be worried about every little thing the press, PR firms and political parties want them to be worried about. Oh my gosh, this ^ I was thinking about how incredibly useful these culture war issues are to those that are happily buying and stealing away our government. While the American people are distracted with bedroom politics, the REAL threat to our country is s the boardroom politics (to paraphrase Robert Reich). It's re-arranging the deck chairs as the Titanic goes down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Everyone's entitled to their opinion. And yes, the right wing is allowing this to dominate politics at a time when women's rights to choose are being devastated, when we've got wars to fight, when we've got a crazy Republican to refuse the Presidency to. It's nice and distracting, and the real issue, bigotry, is being drowned out by the fake issue, "free speech." But I still can't see one of their signs and not think about those millions they're giving to hate groups. They aren't just having an opinion; they're happily encouraging discrimination against millions of people and possibly causing deaths by their bigotry. I'm not going to support that. Hell, I might as well cut out the middleman and just give the money straight to Focus on the Family. I'd rather it not have become the huge tempest it has, I'd rather have just let my quiet dissent have spoken with my dollars, but clearly this is a discussion we need to have as a society. I'm glad we're having it. The more polarized the Right gets with shit like this, the easier it is for the undecided folks to see how crazy they are and the faster they dissolve from the party. It's happening even now, if CFA's approval ratings are anything to go by; they might have had lines out the door Wednesday from the bigots supporting them, but they sure as shit have dropped more than 20% in overall approval ratings among consumers as a whole. And they're a company, not a ministry; they want to make money. Until the money dries up, they have no reason whatsoever to change their attitude. I have something they can't live without (my money). They have something I decidedly can live without (fast food and homophobia). If they want what I have, then they have to offer me something better than chicken with a side of anti-gay discrimination. So no: I will not support a group that is this egregiously supporting human and civil rights abuses. Until people stop supporting companies like this, there's no reason for them to change. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentknight Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 It's simple. I'm not eating at CFA, but I'm not bugging people who are. And I'm giving my emotional support to my gay friends who have been having a hard time dealing with this whole thing. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 CFA is simply the most visible bigoted symbol to attack. Thus the reason why all the attention. It is being used by both sides as different symbol. If I started a corporation, and it was anti-christian and supported the most hateful anti-christian organization I could find. Christians in america would do the same thing that the rest of us are trying to do to CFA. It is a symbol. Once it has run it's course things will continue on much as they did before. CFA will still exist. They will probably close stores in places were they pressure got to much and sales became unprofitable. But those will only be in a few locations. The fact is most people in the US could really care less. They will most likely continue to go there because they like the food. Personally, I won't, but it has little to do with the politics of the owner. I just don't like CFA. Which, I got roundly mocked for by the guys at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Big picture: How effective are anti gay groups at swinging public opinion and policy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Gee, why don't we ask Ugandan gays, who are apparently enjoying some of the "benefits" of donations from CFA's buddies and other hate groups like them? Why don't we ask the Republicans who are using CFA to advance their own bigotry? I think that if good people say nothing, then evil has won. That anti-gay groups are at this point fighting against a tide that has decidedly turned means nothing. They're still giving millions to groups that condone making gays into the scary Other, groups that are designated hate groups. Ineffective hatemongering is still hatemongering. I still won't support it by giving the company money. At this point, eating there is tacitly signing my approval to what they're doing--and CFA itself, as well as its most bigoted supporters, certainly view things that way. Fine. They want to play it soft, we can play it soft. They want to play it hard, I'm totally game for that too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Are things better or worse today worldwide in terms of gay rights and general acceptance in the population than they were 20 years ago? Has spending on anti gay PR increased or decreased during this time period? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ro-bear Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 I'm not starting an anti CFA website or writing letters to the editor or vandalizing CFA property. I'm just not eating there. I don't see that as making a big deal of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeasabird Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 You've changed my mind. I just posted the following on facebook, which was kind of my formal coming out as an ex-c as well. Alright, I was ok being somewhat apathetic on the whole Chick-fil-a thing. I actually do like their food and patronized them fairly regularly, even though by now I guess it's fairly obvious to anyone who watches closely enough that I'm no longer a Christian. I don't even have a problem giving money to Christian organizations if I think the money is being used primarily for good. We just did that last weekend as a matter of fact. However, now it has come to light that at least one of these groups CFA supports, also supports criminal punishments for gay crimes in other countries, like Uganda for example. It deserves repeating, criminal punishments up to and including the death penalty just for being gay. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda_Anti-Homosexuality_Bill ... This goes far beyond free speech and debating semantics of civil unions vs. marriage. This is support for state execution for victimless crimes. This is beyond something I can continue to be apathetic about. My willingness to be apathetic toward this has ended and I will no longer support or patronize CFA. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted August 3, 2012 Author Share Posted August 3, 2012 Why did my poll disappear? I didn't delete it, but I lost all the votes and had to make a new one. Dang, this is the second time it's happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denyoz Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Apparently, Dan Cathy believes that those who "have the audacity to define what marriage is about" are "inviting God's judgment on the nation". So all he wants is to avoid, as much as possible, God's judgment on the nation. Sounds like he wishes to make a difference and make the world a better place. The funny thing is that not too long ago, all of us were Christians and probably would have agreed with him. ha ha ha huuuuh... we're all stupid. By the way I voted no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentLoner Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 I love the way Jon Stewart put it - gay marriage is happening. So our side gets gay marriage, and all the opponents side will get is Type-2 diabetes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted August 3, 2012 Author Share Posted August 3, 2012 Apparently, Dan Cathy believes that those who "have the audacity to define what marriage is about" are "inviting God's judgment on the nation". Is that a Dan Cathy quote or do you just hear it a lot from fundies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentknight Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Here's his quotes: Well, guilty as charged,” said Cathy when asked about the company’s position. “We are very much supportive of the family — the biblical definition of the family unit. We are a family-owned business, a family-led business, and we are married to our first wives. We give God thanks for that. “We operate as a family business … our restaurants are typically led by families; some are single. We want to do anything we possibly can to strengthen families. We are very much committed to that,” Cathy emphasized. “We intend to stay the course,” he said. “We know that it might not be popular with everyone, but thank the Lord, we live in a country where we can share our values and operate on biblical principles.” AND “I think we are inviting God’s judgment on our nation when we shake our fist at Him and say ‘we know better than you as to what constitutes a marriage’ and I pray God’s mercy on our generation that has such a prideful, arrogant attitude to think that we have the audacity to define what marriage is about” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denyoz Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Apparently, Dan Cathy believes that those who "have the audacity to define what marriage is about" are "inviting God's judgment on the nation". Is that a Dan Cathy quote or do you just hear it a lot from fundies? It is one of his quotes according to many news reporters. Here, for example: http://www.guardian....n?newsfeed=true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Where in the bible does it clearly state that a family = 1 man and 1 woman? Yet another example of how xianity is created from the pulpit, not from a book. I like the word family. I hope we don't allow assholes to usurp it as a code word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted August 3, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted August 3, 2012 I like the word family. I hope we don't allow assholes to usurp it as a code word. I think it's already too late. Of course they didn't like it when the word "gay" got hijacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ro-bear Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Where in the bible does it clearly state that a family = 1 man and 1 woman? Yet another example of how xianity is created from the pulpit, not from a book. I like the word family. I hope we don't allow assholes to usurp it as a code word. "Family Man" by Black Flag http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGOky-eFRZI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGOky-eFRZI Black Flag? I wouldn't have expected this from you Ro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 More family values: Euro commercials kick ass: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted August 3, 2012 Author Share Posted August 3, 2012 Where in the bible does it clearly state that a family = 1 man and 1 woman? Yet another example of how xianity is created from the pulpit, not from a book. I like the word family. I hope we don't allow assholes to usurp it as a code word. Too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ro-bear Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Black Flag? I wouldn't have expected this from you Ro One hates to be predictable. I had punk roommates in the early eighties. I am well versed in Black Flag, the Butthole Surfers, Dead Kennedys, Circle Jerks, Alice Bag Band, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 "Family," along with "values," is a code word for "evangelical Christian cray-cray" at this point. I don't see a way to rescue either one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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